The Swamp

Look guys, I actually work in the field of communications, including crisis communications.

If you have the right messaging, rolled out in an effective way, people generally will listen to you. I've been the one that has written the releases, web content, social media, radio and TV ads asking people to stop using water and fill up their bathtubs... People comply, for the most part.

If you had messaged that you can cover your face and you don't need an N95, the vast majority of people would've complied. There are always assholes... Not everyone is an asshole, not even close.

Someone else can drop in a last word, because I'm sure I'm being annoying at this point. I'm just saying I've seen how effective messaging get 100s of thousands/millions of people moving in the same direction. It's actually not that hard.

BSF21 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:43 pm

P.D.X. wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:59 am Boulder has actually been doing pretty well, despite the shitshow that Denver is. I'd guess mask-wearing is prob 60-70% among people just walking down the street. I went up to the national park this weekend and I'd guess mask wearing was like 5% (and clearly it was a lot of mid-westerners not letting a fake pandemic cancel their vacays.)

I don't know how crowded the national park scene is, but I have to say I'm not masking up in open air when I'm not around others. Patio for a beer? Absolutely. Walking the dogs? not doing it. That's not really unreasonable is it?

Well, you hit the big point. A lot of national parks can get really crowded. If you're going for a hike in a state or local park you know from experience to be relatively secluded that's one thing. If you're at the Grand Canyon or Zion or whatever and not wearing a mask, you're part of the problem.

BSF21 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:43 pm

P.D.X. wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:59 am Boulder has actually been doing pretty well, despite the shitshow that Denver is. I'd guess mask-wearing is prob 60-70% among people just walking down the street. I went up to the national park this weekend and I'd guess mask wearing was like 5% (and clearly it was a lot of mid-westerners not letting a fake pandemic cancel their vacays.)

I don't know how crowded the national park scene is, but I have to say I'm not masking up in open air when I'm not around others. Patio for a beer? Absolutely. Walking the dogs? not doing it. That's not really unreasonable is it?

Oh sure, no need to wear a mask with no one around. The trailheads can get pretty crowded and the parking lots are packed, so the etiquette is to have one around your neck that you can pull up when needed.

brian wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:45 pm

BSF21 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:43 pm

P.D.X. wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:59 am Boulder has actually been doing pretty well, despite the shitshow that Denver is. I'd guess mask-wearing is prob 60-70% among people just walking down the street. I went up to the national park this weekend and I'd guess mask wearing was like 5% (and clearly it was a lot of mid-westerners not letting a fake pandemic cancel their vacays.)

I don't know how crowded the national park scene is, but I have to say I'm not masking up in open air when I'm not around others. Patio for a beer? Absolutely. Walking the dogs? not doing it. That's not really unreasonable is it?

Well, you hit the big point. A lot of national parks can get really crowded. If you're going for a hike in a state or local park you know from experience to be relatively secluded that's one thing. If you're at the Grand Canyon or Zion or whatever and not wearing a mask, you're part of the problem.

Yeah, that's why I like the idea of those gator type things that are also cooling. Not a big deal to have around your neck and you can just pull it up things get crowded.

But I'm totally with you, BSF, on not wearing a mask while I'm out for a walk. With VERY few exceptions (like 4 or 5 over the last 4 months), people make an effort to distance while out walking in my hood. Just not necessary to mask up there.

P.D.X. wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:50 pm

BSF21 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:43 pm

P.D.X. wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:59 am Boulder has actually been doing pretty well, despite the shitshow that Denver is. I'd guess mask-wearing is prob 60-70% among people just walking down the street. I went up to the national park this weekend and I'd guess mask wearing was like 5% (and clearly it was a lot of mid-westerners not letting a fake pandemic cancel their vacays.)

I don't know how crowded the national park scene is, but I have to say I'm not masking up in open air when I'm not around others. Patio for a beer? Absolutely. Walking the dogs? not doing it. That's not really unreasonable is it?

Oh sure, no need to wear a mask with no one around. The trailheads can get pretty crowded and the parking lots are packed, so the etiquette is to have one around your neck that you can pull up when needed.

Yeah, this is what I'm doing when I go out in town here. If I'm just seated and playing VP and drinking a beer I have my mask down around my neck. If I'm up and walking around the casino or going to the bathroom or walking down Fremont Street, I have the mask up on my face. 80-ish percent of locals are doing the same. You can tell the tourists because almost none are wearing masks. I'd avoid the Strip like the plague in the near future. There's already been COVID outbreaks at several Strip restaurants.

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:52 pm

Yeah, that's why I like the idea of those gator type things that are also cooling. Not a big deal to have around your neck and you can just pull it up things get crowded.

I have two of these and they are great. (But if you go to search for them, search gaiter unless you are Chedda or PHXgators)

A_B wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:03 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:52 pm

Yeah, that's why I like the idea of those gator type things that are also cooling. Not a big deal to have around your neck and you can just pull it up things get crowded.

I have two of these and they are great. (But if you go to search for them, search gaiter unless you are Chedda or PHXgators)

Solid tip!

This is why I misspelled it that, fwiw: https://gator-sports.com/shop/gator-fac ... ctor-copy/

BSF21 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:43 pm

P.D.X. wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:59 am Boulder has actually been doing pretty well, despite the shitshow that Denver is. I'd guess mask-wearing is prob 60-70% among people just walking down the street. I went up to the national park this weekend and I'd guess mask wearing was like 5% (and clearly it was a lot of mid-westerners not letting a fake pandemic cancel their vacays.)

I don't know how crowded the national park scene is, but I have to say I'm not masking up in open air when I'm not around others. Patio for a beer? Absolutely. Walking the dogs? not doing it. That's not really unreasonable is it?

It is not.

tennbengal wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:25 pm

BSF21 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:43 pm

P.D.X. wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:59 am Boulder has actually been doing pretty well, despite the shitshow that Denver is. I'd guess mask-wearing is prob 60-70% among people just walking down the street. I went up to the national park this weekend and I'd guess mask wearing was like 5% (and clearly it was a lot of mid-westerners not letting a fake pandemic cancel their vacays.)

I don't know how crowded the national park scene is, but I have to say I'm not masking up in open air when I'm not around others. Patio for a beer? Absolutely. Walking the dogs? not doing it. That's not really unreasonable is it?

It is not.

When I go for my walk, I don't wear a mask, but walk in the street if someone is approaching on the sidewalk or walk on the other side of the road if another pedestrian (while walking on the wrong side of the street!) or cyclist is coming.

DSafetyGuy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:29 pm

tennbengal wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:25 pm

BSF21 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:43 pm

P.D.X. wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:59 am Boulder has actually been doing pretty well, despite the shitshow that Denver is. I'd guess mask-wearing is prob 60-70% among people just walking down the street. I went up to the national park this weekend and I'd guess mask wearing was like 5% (and clearly it was a lot of mid-westerners not letting a fake pandemic cancel their vacays.)

I don't know how crowded the national park scene is, but I have to say I'm not masking up in open air when I'm not around others. Patio for a beer? Absolutely. Walking the dogs? not doing it. That's not really unreasonable is it?

It is not.

When I go for my walk, I don't wear a mask, but walk in the street if someone is approaching on the sidewalk or walk on the other side of the road if another pedestrian (while walking on the wrong side of the street!) or cyclist is coming.

Avoidance has been pretty SOP around here since March. People are friendly about it for the most part. Retail shopping is under 30%, with 10% being people wearing a mask around their mouth with their nose exposed. I'm really trying to be proactive without horrendous inconvenience. I had to bail during my hockey game last night. Pickup skating was doable, but hard C2 league shifts I only lasted a period before I took it off and played the rest of the game open faced.

brian wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:54 pm playing VP

Is that Vegas lingo for picking up male prostitutes?

BSF21 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:29 pm Retail shopping is under 30%, with 10% being people wearing a mask around their mouth with their nose exposed.

I'm kind of aghast at this one. Generally, for outdoors, I'm with all the rest of you who don't wear a mask if it is possible to avoid being close to other people. But, we all know that we are far less safe indoors, such as being in a retail establishment. Out here in librul Bay Areastan, wearing a mask inside a retail shop is, by my experience, over 90%; 100% in grocery stores. It's pretty much required in most places.

Getting back to the messaging on masks, the number of people wearing masks would be vastly different if Trump publicly wore a mask and asked others to wear masks, rather than turning it into a culture war issue, where 35% of the population believes wearing a mask is catering to the snowflake Liberals and government oppression. Yes, the President has somehow made his followers believe that following his own government recommendations is Liberal oppression. I'm going to break my brain trying to understand that one.

sancarlos wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:47 pm

BSF21 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:29 pm Retail shopping is under 30%, with 10% being people wearing a mask around their mouth with their nose exposed.

I'm kind of aghast at this one. Generally, for outdoors, I'm with all the rest of you who don't wear a mask if it is possible to avoid being close to other people. But, we all know that we are far less safe indoors, such as being in a retail establishment. Out here in librul Bay Areastan, wearing a mask inside a retail shop is, by my experience, over 90%; 100% in grocery stores. It's pretty much required in most places.

The problem in all of this is that everyone, it appears, is afraid to confront these people. It seems very clear to me that even quasi-military locked down zone like an airport, they are not pushing security to do/say anything.

The Sybian wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:02 pm Getting back to the messaging on masks, the number of people wearing masks would be vastly different if Trump publicly wore a mask and asked others to wear masks, rather than turning it into a culture war issue, where 35% of the population believes wearing a mask is catering to the snowflake Liberals and government oppression. Yes, the President has somehow made his followers believe that following his own government recommendations is Liberal oppression. I'm going to break my brain trying to understand that one.

I shouldn't have thrown Fauci under the bus, because it derailed my main point... Which boils down to what you wrote. The lack of leadership and the confusion they sowed about masks got 10s of thousands of people killed. Criminally negligent.

The Sybian wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:45 pm

brian wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:54 pm playing VP

Is that Vegas lingo for picking up male prostitutes?

I forget sometimes you guys don't get all of our local lingo.

VP=video poker

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:03 pmThe problem in all of this is that everyone, it appears, is afraid to confront these people. It seems very clear to me that even quasi-military locked down zone like an airport, they are not pushing security to do/say anything.

I don't know what they can do. There's video of some old dude pushing a much larger supermarket security guard around until falling on his own ass, but what's the solution? Security guard physically beating the shit out of him or having handcuffs or something? Calling the cops on every dickhead who isn't wearing a mask or is wearing it wrong? Without shutdowns, its unenforceable.

And yet they can put the fear of God in people that they walk around with their shoes off and their butts showing because their belt is going through the scanner.

This is ALL about how it is presented to everyone. If you don't put up with bullshit, starting at the very top, this stuff gets handled.

I really can't stress it enough. People are fucking sheep. If they get strongly worded messaging from the top, they will comply.

But, also, in a fucking airport? Where they can just say, hey it's required, would you like to miss your flight over this? Put on the fucking mask. IT'S REQUIRED.



And it's not that hard for a PD to issue citations for not wearing masks. It's being done in Delaware, of all places, on the beach.

Because Trump wants this to be the next culture war... People gon die.

I mostly agree with what you're saying, but those police issuing on the beach are doing so at the cost of protecting store employees because they can't be everywhere all the time. The sheer volume of people makes anything but full buy-in or extremely punitive punishment if caught the only real options.

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:48 pmAnd it's not that hard for a PD to issue citations for not wearing masks. It's being done in Delaware, of all places, on the beach.

Here is where I admit that a big part of the reason that we haven’t taken as much as a day trip to DE to see my parents (here is where I admit that CV19 dialing up my wife’s baseline distrust of public bathrooms up to 11 is also a factor) because of both news reports and second-hand reports from my mom that DE state troopers were pulling over NJ plates coming off the Delaware Memorial Bridge and asking for details of destination and length of stay.

DE isn’t fucking around.

Wife had friends down there this past weekend and she's definitely not seeing those friends for a long time. People are just in totally different places right now.

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:48 pm I really can't stress it enough. People are fucking sheep.

Leave Wales out of this.

Johnny Carwash wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:51 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:48 pm I really can't stress it enough. People are fucking sheep.

Leave Wales out of this.

That joke never gets old.

rass wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:04 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:48 pmAnd it's not that hard for a PD to issue citations for not wearing masks. It's being done in Delaware, of all places, on the beach.

Here is where I admit that a big part of the reason that we haven’t taken as much as a day trip to DE to see my parents (here is where I admit that CV19 dialing up my wife’s baseline distrust of public bathrooms up to 11 is also a factor) because of both news reports and second-hand reports from my mom that DE state troopers were pulling over NJ plates coming off the Delaware Memorial Bridge and asking for details of destination and length of stay.

DE isn’t fucking around.

have made two trips into maryland in last five weeks, including this past weekend.
in May, down for surprise pop in for my parent's 50th -- the signs on 95 both in DE and MD did mention not to stop if from NJ.. no such mention on the vms this weekend in either state. both trips stopped in MD rest stops to hit the head (way too much coffee)
both times did notice less traffic than usual. lots of troopers in all three states.. and drives going much faster than usual (do 78-82 on 95.. too many cars going well over 90, and several groups of bikers going what looked like 120+)

I've taken full liberty to piss anywhere I like due to Rona. Barely even hide it anymore. Just turn away. I'm with rass' wife on the public bathrooms. Ladies won't need at the beach right?

Just bought one of these bad boys to sport around town (when I go out):

(All proceeds go to COVID relief in Las Vegas through the VGK Foundation)

Fauci responds to question about masks, doesn't regret not recommending masks until April.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... XTCKLQIDAA

Won't beat the dying horse from yesterday. Found the response interesting.

Trump is going all in on his "joke" to reduce cases by reducing testing.

So he's really going to white flag and let people die just so he can say "you can't prove it was the virus" once the tests have run out. And the Dems, fearful of doing anything that'll cost them the chance to win via inaction in November, will wait it out.

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:58 pm So he's really going to white flag and let people die just so he can say "you can't prove it was the virus" once the tests have run out. And the Dems, fearful of doing anything that'll cost them the chance to win via inaction in November, will wait it out.

What should dems do here? Serious question. Do they have ability to force White House to spend these funds?

Can they shut down all government functions? Advocate for social unrest in the form of work stoppages? Allow for diversion of state tax dollars and let the federal gov't fight them on it? I'm not the one to solve the how, but someone in leadership has to take the lead when their inaction aides in causing certain deaths. Anything, even if its AGAINST THE RULES, is better.

Yeah...we are fucked.

Live updates: New coronavirus cases in the U.S. soar to highest single-day total

And then you have dipshits doing this:

Tonight at 7pm (Seattle Time):



Should be fun...

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:10 pm Can they shut down all government functions? Advocate for social unrest in the form of work stoppages? Allow for diversion of state tax dollars and let the federal gov't fight them on it? I'm not the one to solve the how, but someone in leadership has to take the lead when their inaction aides in causing certain deaths. Anything, even if its AGAINST THE RULES, is better.

No. They have no power to do that.

Yes, but why do we think social unrest will somehow persuade the Republicans to do something?

No. They have no power to do that either.

It's not about things being against the rules. It's about things being beyond the Dems' power. They control one House of Congress, and they have enough seats to filibuster in the Senate. So they can stop certain legislation from going through. But that's it.

The Dems managed to get the Republicans to agree to trillions in emergency funding that not only lessened the impact of the pandemic, but in fact appeared to reduce the poverty rate. (This is the bill that has been described by some as a corporate giveaway that did nothing but give people a lousy twelve hundred bucks.) Because back then the Republicans felt that their backs were against the wall. Then the Dem House passed another, even stronger, relief bill. But the Republicans no longer feel like their backs are against the wall, so that bill is languishing in the Senate along with dozens of others.

They cannot force Mitch McConnell to bring any bill for a vote. They apparently cannot force three Republican senators to ditch McConnell and put Schumer in as majority leader for the rest of the term. So they are stuck. They can just make noise. Which at this point will just get lost in all the other noise everyone is making.

It sucks when someone takes hostages and you care more about whether the hostages live or die than the hostage-taker does.

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:23 pmYes, but why do we think social unrest will somehow persuade the Republicans to do something?

Look at all that social unrest has done in the past month? So if that's the only path, make that the path and actually fight with the people. And not just because you have a primary ; ) Support the public in "not dying" until its untenable for the other side.

That's the whistleblower from the FL Covid #s. She's been great.

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:11 pm

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:23 pmYes, but why do we think social unrest will somehow persuade the Republicans to do something?

Look at all that social unrest has done in the past month? So if that's the only path, make that the path and actually fight with the people. And not just because you have a primary ; ) Support the public in "not dying" until its untenable for the other side.

And not as important right now, but if they take the Senate or the presidency while holding the house, there should be zero across the aisle or compromise bullshit as long as the senate is made up of his current enablers. If they're truly powerless to do anything right now, turn that around later.

Nevada just made masks mandatory in all inside public spaces.