Not so funny real life Capt Trips thread

Okay . . . let's try this again.

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Re: Not so funny real life Capt Trips thread

Post by Nonlinear FC » Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:25 pm

That is fair, Citgo.

On a somewhat related note, I heard an idea floated in a jurisdiction that included a model of having transition grades attend in person, on a modified schedule. So.. I think it was Kindergarten and 1st grade... 6th grade... Freshmen... Seniors. (depends on where the middle school breaks down.)
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Re: Not so funny real life Capt Trips thread

Post by govmentchedda » Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:52 pm

HaulCitgo wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:17 pm
Totally different deal.for everyone below middle school. A lot closer to zero.
As a father of three home schooled boys, I disagree.
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Re: Not so funny real life Capt Trips thread

Post by HaulCitgo » Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:39 pm

Who is going to teach them? If your wife doesn't work I don't want to hear shit.

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Re: Not so funny real life Capt Trips thread

Post by degenerasian » Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:13 pm

The Sybian wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:02 pm
Nonlinear FC wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:50 am
I don't really feel like going back and quoting, but the idea that you are gaining ZERO knowledge through virtual learning is a bit... Well, it's playing a zero sum game with something that doesn't really fit the model.

Is it less effective for some? Sure. Is it MORE effective for some? You bet (my college kids, for example, are full of anxiety about going to in person classrooms AND they are able to do quite well online.)

I don't understand why people need to politicize or be so hysterical on this issue.
Yeah, I'd say it was probably better for my son, definitely worse for my daughter. I spent 75% of class time in HS and college looking at girls or thinking about sex, so virtual learning may have cut out distractions.
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Re: Not so funny real life Capt Trips thread

Post by Pruitt » Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:18 am

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Re: Not so funny real life Capt Trips thread

Post by govmentchedda » Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:47 am

HaulCitgo wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:39 pm
Who is going to teach them? If your wife doesn't work I don't want to hear shit.
She works infinitely harder than I do, but no she doesn't work a different full time job. She runs a non profit and still sees one client for speech therapy.

I get that we're lucky, privileged, etc. to be able to get by on only one income. But that wasn't the question presented, so I'm not sure why you're coming at me about that. The question as I saw it was how kids learn at home. I'll also concede that the virtual learning via Zoom with a teacher is wholly different than what my kids do. My whole point was that my kids learn much better at home than they did at a regular school.
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Re: Not so funny real life Capt Trips thread

Post by A_B » Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:52 am

HaulCitgo wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:39 pm
Who is going to teach them? If your wife doesn't work I don't want to hear shit.
What the hell is wrong with you man? Even if one parent doesn't work, that doesn't replace PROFESSIONAL EDUCATORS. Both my wife and I work, and we busted ass this past semester to help out. I am fortunate enough to be able to help with all the math and english, and my wife is an organizer of the highest order, but if our oldest hadn't been home to help with chemistry and spanish we'd have been up shit creek.
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Re: Not so funny real life Capt Trips thread

Post by Giff » Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:01 am

A_B wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:52 am
HaulCitgo wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:39 pm
Who is going to teach them? If your wife doesn't work I don't want to hear shit.
What the hell is wrong with you man? Even if one parent doesn't work, that doesn't replace PROFESSIONAL EDUCATORS. Both my wife and I work, and we busted ass this past semester to help out. I am fortunate enough to be able to help with all the math and english, and my wife is an organizer of the highest order, but if our oldest hadn't been home to help with chemistry and spanish we'd have been up shit creek.
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Re: Not so funny real life Capt Trips thread

Post by A_B » Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:06 am

Giff wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:01 am
A_B wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:52 am
HaulCitgo wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:39 pm
Who is going to teach them? If your wife doesn't work I don't want to hear shit.
What the hell is wrong with you man? Even if one parent doesn't work, that doesn't replace PROFESSIONAL EDUCATORS. Both my wife and I work, and we busted ass this past semester to help out. I am fortunate enough to be able to help with all the math and english, and my wife is an organizer of the highest order, but if our oldest hadn't been home to help with chemistry and spanish we'd have been up shit creek.
Arroyo de caca.
You're on call for the coming semester!

(Actually he finished his 4 credits of spanish, so we're all good)
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Re: Not so funny real life Capt Trips thread

Post by HaulCitgo » Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:09 am

Hes the one advocating at home education not me. I'm all for the professional educators doing their job. My point is only that even virtual education is really really really hard to do if two parents are working and the kids aren't old enough to be responsible for their own education. I'd say most kids under about 12 can't even manage their schedules enough to show up for online type education on a consistent basis without adult oversight and management, much less pay constant attention to email changes/logins etc and all of that is before we get to the actual substance that is to be taught. I can work or I can teach but I cant do both and I make the rules at my job. What if I had a real job?

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Re: Not so funny real life Capt Trips thread

Post by The Sybian » Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:30 am

govmentchedda wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:47 am
HaulCitgo wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:39 pm
Who is going to teach them? If your wife doesn't work I don't want to hear shit.
She works infinitely harder than I do, but no she doesn't work a different full time job. She runs a non profit and still sees one client for speech therapy.

I get that we're lucky, privileged, etc. to be able to get by on only one income. But that wasn't the question presented, so I'm not sure why you're coming at me about that. The question as I saw it was how kids learn at home. I'll also concede that the virtual learning via Zoom with a teacher is wholly different than what my kids do. My whole point was that my kids learn much better at home than they did at a regular school.
I think you guys are arguing different points. Citgo is saying online learning through schools doesn't work as well for younger kids. Your situation is much different, as your wife is their teacher, so she is with them teaching. If a kid needs help, having one online teacher with 20+ kids isn't ideal, especially if the parents aren't available or able to help. With a good parent teacher, homeschooling has to be better in that the kids are getting incredibly tailored individualized lessons. Homeschooling gets a bad rap, as we usually think of people like the Duggars homeschooling so they can teach Biblical nonsense instead of science.
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Re: Not so funny real life Capt Trips thread

Post by HaulCitgo » Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:54 pm

Let them learn
The risks of keeping schools closed far outweigh the benefits
Millions of young minds are going to waste

Leaders
Jul 18th 2020 edition
Jul 18th 2020
Editor’s note: Some of our covid-19 coverage is free for readers of The Economist Today, our daily newsletter. For more stories and our pandemic tracker, see our hub

All around the world, children’s minds are going to waste. As covid-19 surged in early April, more than 90% of pupils were shut out of school. Since then the number has fallen by one-third, as many classrooms in Europe and East Asia have reopened. But elsewhere progress is slow. Some American school districts, including Los Angeles and San Diego, plan to offer only remote learning when their new school year begins. Kenya’s government has scrapped the whole year, leaving its children idle until January. In the Philippines President Rodrigo Duterte says he may not let any children return to the classroom until a vaccine is found. South Africa has reopened casinos, but only a fraction of classrooms.

Many parents are understandably scared. Covid-19 is new, and poorly understood. Schools are big and crowded. Small children will not observe social distancing. Caution is appropriate, especially when cases are rising. But as we have argued before, the benefits of reopening schools usually outweigh the costs.


The new coronavirus poses a low risk to children. Studies suggest that under-18s are a third to a half less likely to catch the disease. Those under ten, according to British figures, are a thousand times less likely to die than someone aged between 70 and 79. The evidence suggests they are not especially likely to infect others. In Sweden staff at nurseries and primary schools, which never closed, were no more likely to catch the virus than those in other jobs. A new study of 1,500 teenage pupils and 500 teachers who had gone back to school in Germany in May found that only 0.6% had antibodies to the virus, less than half the national rate found in other studies. Granted, an outbreak at a secondary school in Israel infected over 150 pupils and staff. But with precautions, the risk can be minimised.

However, the costs of missing school are huge. Children learn less, and lose the habit of learning. Zoom is a lousy substitute for classrooms. Poor children, who are less likely to have good Wi-Fi and educated parents, fall further behind their better-off peers. Parents who have nowhere to drop their children struggle to return to work. Mothers bear the heavier burden, and so suffer a bigger career setback. Children out of school are more likely to suffer abuse, malnutrition and poor mental health.

School closures are bad enough in rich countries. The harm they do in poor ones is much worse (see article). Perhaps 465m children being offered online classes cannot easily make use of them because they lack an internet connection. In parts of Africa and South Asia, families are in such dire straits that many parents are urging their children to give up their studies and start work or get married. The longer school is shut, the more will make this woeful choice. Save the Children, a charity, guesses that nearly 10m could drop out. Most will be girls.

Education is the surest path out of poverty. Depriving children of it will doom them to poorer, shorter, less fulfilling lives. The World Bank estimates that five months of school closures would cut lifetime earnings for the children who are affected by $10trn in today’s money, equivalent to 7% of current annual gdp.

With such catastrophic potential losses, governments should be working out how to reopen schools as soon as it is safe. This should not be a partisan issue, as it has sadly become in America, where some people assume it is a bad idea simply because President Donald Trump proposes it. In some countries teachers’ unions have been obstructive, partly out of justified concern for public health as cases climb, but also because teachers’ interests are not the same as children’s—especially if they are being paid whether they work or not. The main union in Los Angeles urges that schools remain closed until a long wishlist of demands has been met, including the elusive dream of universal health care in America. Children cannot wait that long.

Places that have restarted schooling, such as France, Denmark, China and New Zealand, offer tips for minimising the risks. They let the most vulnerable teachers stay at home. They commonly reduced class sizes, even though that meant many children could spend only part of the week with their teachers. They staggered timetables to prevent crowding in corridors, at school gates and in dinner halls. They required or encouraged masks. They boosted school-based testing and tracing. The Centres for Disease Control and Prevention has used these to draw up sober guidelines, which include measures such as separating desks by six feet (though the vice-president this week said that schools should feel free to ignore them).

European countries waited on average about 30 days after infections had peaked before they resumed some presence at school. Having started this way, many have since relaxed the rules to let most pupils return to school at the same time. There is no known experience of schools reopening in places where the virus was as prevalent as it is now in Arizona, Florida or Texas. Such places will have to bring the virus under control before the new term begins. This probably means that not all children will be able to go back full-time even then. But a few days a week with a teacher are better than none. And, as in Europe, schools can open up more as covid-19 recedes.

The trade-offs in the global South are even harder. Only a quarter of schools in the poorest countries have soap and running water for handwashing. However, schools in such places are also where pupils are often fed and vaccinated. Closing them makes children more vulnerable to hunger and measles, and this risk almost certainly outweighs that of covid-19. The prudent course for poor-country governments is therefore to act boldly. Face down unions and reopen schools. Conduct loud re-enrolment campaigns, aimed especially at girls. Offer small cash transfers or gifts (such as masks or pens) to ease parents’ worries about the costs of getting their offspring back to class.

Reopening the world’s schools safely will not be cheap. Besides billions of bottles of hand sanitiser, it will require careful organisation, flexible schedules and assistance for those who have fallen behind to catch up. It will cost taxpayers money, but taxpayers are often parents, too. Rich countries should help poor ones with some of the costs. Steep as these will be, they are nothing like the costs of letting the largest generation in human history grow up in ignorance.

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Re: Not so funny real life Capt Trips thread

Post by Nonlinear FC » Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:26 pm

European countries waited on average about 30 days after infections had peaked before they resumed some presence at school. Having started this way, many have since relaxed the rules to let most pupils return to school at the same time. There is no known experience of schools reopening in places where the virus was as prevalent as it is now in Arizona, Florida or Texas. Such places will have to bring the virus under control before the new term begins. This probably means that not all children will be able to go back full-time even then. But a few days a week with a teacher are better than none. And, as in Europe, schools can open up more as covid-19 recedes
Exactly.

The other pretty frustrating aspect of this situation is that it's entirely localized, but we keep having this global/national debates. This should be a zip code by zip code discussion.
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Re: Not so funny real life Capt Trips thread

Post by brian » Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:28 pm

The United States is a third-world country.
Image

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Re: Not so funny real life Capt Trips thread

Post by Johnnie » Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:40 pm

I wish more prominent members of the media were as awesome as Pop.

Gregg Popovich rips 'coward' Texas Gov. Greg Abbott, says NBA bubble is safer than home state
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Re: Not so funny real life Capt Trips thread

Post by HaulCitgo » Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:55 am

Maybe golf not as ok as I thought. As least I don't play at the fancy pants places

https://twitter.com/MattWSB/status/1283 ... 92195?s=19

How do you post the Twitter stuff not in a link?

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Re: Not so funny real life Capt Trips thread

Post by Nonlinear FC » Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:01 am

I will say this... I know about a dozen people that have tested positive, including my co-coach buddy who got REALLY sick... All of them are part of the country club, ahoy polloi set.

None of my other 'hood extended crew got it.

Just... Interesting to me.
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Re: Not so funny real life Capt Trips thread

Post by rass » Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:02 am

HaulCitgo wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:55 am
Maybe golf not as ok as I thought. As least I don't play at the fancy pants places

https://twitter.com/MattWSB/status/1283 ... 92195?s=19

How do you post the Twitter stuff not in a link?


no url tags
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Re: Not so funny real life Capt Trips thread

Post by mister d » Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:09 am

Nonlinear FC wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:01 am
I will say this... I know about a dozen people that have tested positive, including my co-coach buddy who got REALLY sick... All of them are part of the country club, ahoy polloi set.

None of my other 'hood extended crew got it.

Just... Interesting to me.
I can't guarantee they weren't distancing or wearing masks properly, but I guarantee you they weren't distancing or wearing masks properly.
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Re: Not so funny real life Capt Trips thread

Post by govmentchedda » Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:46 am

It would seem like the actual, out on the course, golfing would be fine, and the 19th hole socializing indoors would not be.
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Re: Not so funny real life Capt Trips thread

Post by Nonlinear FC » Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:57 am

govmentchedda wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:46 am
It would seem like the actual, out on the course, golfing would be fine, and the 19th hole socializing indoors would not be.
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Re: Not so funny real life Capt Trips thread

Post by Nonlinear FC » Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:01 am

mister d wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:09 am
Nonlinear FC wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:01 am
I will say this... I know about a dozen people that have tested positive, including my co-coach buddy who got REALLY sick... All of them are part of the country club, ahoy polloi set.

None of my other 'hood extended crew got it.

Just... Interesting to me.
I can't guarantee they weren't distancing or wearing masks properly, but I guarantee you they weren't distancing or wearing masks properly.
I mean, my co-coach buddy's daughter was down in SC (she goes to school down there) and was at a beach house and my wife and I follow her on Insta and she was doing normal college girl group shots with dozens of different people. She got it down there and brought it home, but only Dad got it.

That couple's dad is a former bank president and on the board at Congressional CC... Those are the people that I know from various parties and that set is one where a bunch of ppl I know got it. Lots of parties with that group, no masks, no social distancing. Going to the beach and going out to bars. Just acting like they were immune.
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Re: Not so funny real life Capt Trips thread

Post by govmentchedda » Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:07 am

Nonlinear FC wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:01 am
mister d wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:09 am
Nonlinear FC wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:01 am
I will say this... I know about a dozen people that have tested positive, including my co-coach buddy who got REALLY sick... All of them are part of the country club, ahoy polloi set.

None of my other 'hood extended crew got it.

Just... Interesting to me.
I can't guarantee they weren't distancing or wearing masks properly, but I guarantee you they weren't distancing or wearing masks properly.
I mean, my co-coach buddy's daughter was down in SC (she goes to school down there) and was at a beach house and my wife and I follow her on Insta and she was doing normal college girl group shots with dozens of different people. She got it down there and brought it home, but only Dad got it.

That couple's dad is a former bank president and on the board at Congressional CC... Those are the people that I know from various parties and that set is one where a bunch of ppl I know got it. Lots of parties with that group, no masks, no social distancing. Going to the beach and going out to bars. Just acting like they were immune.
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Re: Not so funny real life Capt Trips thread

Post by Pruitt » Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:22 am

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Re: Not so funny real life Capt Trips thread

Post by HaulCitgo » Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:33 am

But has he let you tag along for a round at congressional?

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Re: Not so funny real life Capt Trips thread

Post by Steve of phpBB » Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:48 am

It's awesome to read about the denizens of Utah County complaining about "mandates" from the government. This is the most Mormon place in the state (country?), and they have no trouble telling you what you can drink, when and where you can buy it, what you can smoke or eat, who you can have sex with and how you can do it, even when you can buy a fucking car.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.

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Re: Not so funny real life Capt Trips thread

Post by Nonlinear FC » Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:06 pm

HaulCitgo wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:33 am
But has he let you tag along for a round at congressional?
I'm not a very good golfer... We've played multiple rounds together at the beach and here at home... I think there's a thing at CCC where you don't bring duffers out on that course. Because we're as close to best friends as you can get without having grown up or gone to school together.*

I have been given Member passes to the US Open and couple of Tiger's tournaments and holy shit it's fun to pretend to be that rich. The club house is amazing.


* - Maybe it's just me, but I have 1 really good friend from childhood, about 5 or 6 really tight friends from high school, and about the same number from college. I have some folks here in the 'hood that I consider friends, but he's the only guy on the same level as my other friends. I just think it's hard to connect on that level as an adult. The fact that we spent 1000 hours on and off soccer fields coaching/managing our team is a huge factor.
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Re: Not so funny real life Capt Trips thread

Post by The Sybian » Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:47 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:06 pm
HaulCitgo wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:33 am
But has he let you tag along for a round at congressional?
I'm not a very good golfer... We've played multiple rounds together at the beach and here at home... I think there's a thing at CCC where you don't bring duffers out on that course. Because we're as close to best friends as you can get without having grown up or gone to school together.*

I have been given Member passes to the US Open and couple of Tiger's tournaments and holy shit it's fun to pretend to be that rich. The club house is amazing.


* - Maybe it's just me, but I have 1 really good friend from childhood, about 5 or 6 really tight friends from high school, and about the same number from college. I have some folks here in the 'hood that I consider friends, but he's the only guy on the same level as my other friends. I just think it's hard to connect on that level as an adult. The fact that we spent 1000 hours on and off soccer fields coaching/managing our team is a huge factor.
Now that you mention it, the only really close friend I've made since having kids is my soccer co-coach. My daughter and I left the team 2 years ago, but he still calls me a few times a week during the season to bitch about parents, update me on the games and how the girls are progressing, or just generally talk. Other than my parents, I don't really have phone conversations with anyone else. We had a professional trainer running practices, so we just stood on the field talking most of the time.
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Re: Not so funny real life Capt Trips thread

Post by govmentchedda » Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:49 pm

The friends discussion is an interesting one. If I had more time, I'd organize a thread and further discussion.
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Re: Not so funny real life Capt Trips thread

Post by mister d » Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:07 pm

Too busy with your friends?
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Re: Not so funny real life Capt Trips thread

Post by Pruitt » Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:14 pm

Steve of phpBB wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:48 am
It's awesome to read about the denizens of Utah County complaining about "mandates" from the government. This is the most Mormon place in the state (country?), and they have no trouble telling you what you can drink, when and where you can buy it, what you can smoke or eat, who you can have sex with and how you can do it, even when you can buy a fucking car.
“I think you’re forgetting we live in America,” Lisonbee said, according to the Herald. “And we the people decide. You work for we the people, not the other way around.”
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Re: Not so funny real life Capt Trips thread

Post by HaulCitgo » Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:24 pm

Yeah I got two friends total. But it's not a bad thing. The rest tend to fall in piles, business friends, common interest friends, wife and kids friends. But none of those are really friends. More like frequent associates.

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Re: Not so funny real life Capt Trips thread

Post by DaveInSeattle » Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:05 pm

HaulCitgo wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:24 pm
Yeah I got two friends total. But it's not a bad thing. The rest tend to fall in piles, business friends, common interest friends, wife and kids friends. But none of those are really friends. More like frequent associates.
My GF always says that I don't have many friends, but I have tons of 'acquaintances'. And I can't really disagree with her.

We do have a group of friends..5 other couples...that we are really good friends with and see quite often (well...in the Before Times). But they were all her friends when I met her.

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Re: Not so funny real life Capt Trips thread

Post by Nonlinear FC » Sun Jul 19, 2020 3:26 pm

Jack Nicklaus just let it out that he and his wife tested positive for COVID back in March. Convalesced at their home in FL through mid-April. Mild symptoms and obviously both OK now.
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Re: Not so funny real life Capt Trips thread

Post by Johnnie » Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:37 am

Nice.

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EnochRoot wrote:I mean, whatever. Johnnie's all hot cuz I ride him.

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DaveInSeattle
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Re: Not so funny real life Capt Trips thread

Post by DaveInSeattle » Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:05 pm

Dave Grohl, on sending kids back to school:

In Defense of Our Teachers
I hate to break it to you, but I was a terrible student.

Each day, I desperately waited for the final bell to ring so that I could be released from the confines of my stuffy, windowless classroom and run home to my guitar. It was no fault of the Fairfax County Public Schools system, mind you; it did the best it could. I was just stubbornly disengaged, impeded by a raging case of ADD and an insatiable desire to play music. Far from being a model student, I tried my best to maintain focus, but eventually left school halfway through 11th grade to follow my dreams of becoming a professional touring musician (not advised). I left behind countless missed opportunities. To this day, I’m haunted by a recurring dream that I’m back in those crowded hallways, now struggling to graduate as a 51-year-old man, and anxiously wake in a pool of my own sweat. You can take the boy out of school, but you can’t take school out of the boy! So, with me being a high-school dropout, you would imagine that the current debate surrounding the reopening of schools wouldn’t register so much as a blip on my rock-and-roll radar, right? Wrong.

My mother was a public-school teacher.

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Re: Not so funny real life Capt Trips thread

Post by Gunpowder » Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:54 pm

GUNS - Necessary for protection! Patriots Unite! Chances of a gun saving your life: infinitesimally small, also a chance you or your kids kill themselves with it

A MASK - SOCIALISM! Chances of a mask saving your life: significantly higher than that of a gun doing the same. Chance that your kids kill themselves with your mask - probably quite small


People are dumb
"Enjoyed this one," Gunpowder told the Burlington Observer. "But it's back to work tomorrow."

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DaveInSeattle
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Re: Not so funny real life Capt Trips thread

Post by DaveInSeattle » Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:19 am

My company just announced that we won't be back in the office until Jan. 4th, at the earliest.

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Re: Not so funny real life Capt Trips thread

Post by rass » Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:32 am

Vaccine reality check

My wife's BIL works for Becht and Dickinson and he mentioned at dinner over the weekend that they had been awarded a huge contract for manufacturing syringes for delivering an eventual vaccine. He felt it would be at least the middle of next spring before they could deliver on the 100s of millions of devices that the deal eventually calls for. Part of that is just volume, part of that is not yet knowing the exact specs of what they need to make.
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Re: Not so funny real life Capt Trips thread

Post by rass » Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:02 am

I felt aswirl with warm secretions.

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