The Swamp

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:35 am**

There should be a green medal or something for people who sacrifice themselves for the economy. Very noble.

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:08 pm**

Take solace in the fact that his kids were too young to have a lot of real memories of him.

Then be happy that they're probably going to be better off with whoever their step-dad ends up being.

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:29 pm**

DSafetyGuy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:08 pm Take solace in the fact that his kids were too young to have a lot of real memories of him.

Then be happy that they're probably going to be better off with whoever their step-dad ends up being.

Goddamn that's cold.

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:05 pm**

NJDOH made an adjustment to the “phases” for vaccine distribution earlier this week, adding 75+ year olds to phase 1B which previously had just been essential workers, and didn’t communicate the change to local health departments.

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:14 pm**

L-Jam3 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:31 am For some good news for a change, Astra-Zeneca’s vaccine had been approved in UK.

That this vaccine can be maintained with just regular refrigeration is huge.

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:32 pm**

rass wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:05 pm NJDOH made an adjustment to the “phases” for vaccine distribution earlier this week, adding 75+ year olds to phase 1B which previously had just been essential workers, and didn’t communicate the change to local health departments.

Great, very concerned for my father in law who isn't in the greatest health. I think MiL just misses the cut though.

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:19 pm**

The Sybian wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:29 pm
DSafetyGuy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:08 pm Take solace in the fact that his kids were too young to have a lot of real memories of him.

Then be happy that they're probably going to be better off with whoever their step-dad ends up being.
Goddamn that's cold.

I had the exact same thought, but decided not to put that juju out in the universe.

But, since it's out there...

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:33 pm**

Similar to my "schadenfreude COVID thread" request for Al Michaels...

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:35 pm**

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:52 pm**

We are never getting out of this...

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:03 pm**

The Sybian wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:29 pm
DSafetyGuy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:08 pm Take solace in the fact that his kids were too young to have a lot of real memories of him.

Then be happy that they're probably going to be better off with whoever their step-dad ends up being.
Goddamn that's cold.

Hard truths typically are.

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:18 pm**

Johnnie wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:03 pm
The Sybian wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:29 pm
DSafetyGuy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:08 pm Take solace in the fact that his kids were too young to have a lot of real memories of him.

Then be happy that they're probably going to be better off with whoever their step-dad ends up being.
Goddamn that's cold.
Hard truths typically are.

Cawthorne will need some kids and not sure how that’s working for him. Golden opportunity.

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:57 pm**

Johnnie wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:03 pm
The Sybian wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:29 pm
DSafetyGuy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:08 pm Take solace in the fact that his kids were too young to have a lot of real memories of him.

Then be happy that they're probably going to be better off with whoever their step-dad ends up being.
Goddamn that's cold.
Hard truths typically are.

Yeah, I wasn’t criticizing or disagreeing. Kinda wished I said it.

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:57 pm**

A_B wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:18 pm
Johnnie wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:03 pm
The Sybian wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:29 pm
DSafetyGuy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:08 pm Take solace in the fact that his kids were too young to have a lot of real memories of him.

Then be happy that they're probably going to be better off with whoever their step-dad ends up being.
Goddamn that's cold.
Hard truths typically are.
Cawthorne will need some kids and not sure how that’s working for him. Golden opportunity.

Goddamn that’s cold.

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:25 pm**

Mentioned it before, unless his disability has fucked everything below the waist, he should have no issues making kids with his fiance. (...and thus making dreams become reality.)

(Instagram link in spoiler)

[+] spoiler

Posted: **Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:28 pm**

Fuckin Nazi whore.

Posted: **Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:41 am**

DaveInSeattle wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:52 pm We are never getting out of this...

(Raises hand)

I know how he got it.

Posted: **Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:40 am**

brian wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:28 pm Fuckin Nazi whore.

Or, at least, Nazi-fucking whore.

Posted: **Fri Jan 01, 2021 9:59 pm**

My wife told me last night that basically her whole damn family tested positive. But here's the story...

Her dad did the reckless approach of continuing to go to church, not wear a mask, not sufficiently socially distance..etc. That exposed her mom, who is asymptomatic -- and actually still hasn't been tested.

But since it was "just a bad cold," they drove to SoCal from northern Idaho to have Christmas with my sister-in-law and her family.

Upon arrival, my sister-in-law's husband took one look at him and got him to urgent care where they tested him. And he was positive.

Now, her dad, maybe her mom, sister, brother, and brother's wife all have it. (Her dad, mom, brother, and brother's wife all live together in Idaho...with all the grandkids.)

Her father, despite being extremely smart (engineer), is just too fucking smart for everyone else. He's always right and no one calls him on it. I always tell my wife that one day we're going to have a huge argument because of his attitude.

So fucking frustrating. Luckily my side of the family is doing their best and following protocols.

Posted: **Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:03 pm**

Sorry, man...

Posted: **Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:02 pm**

mister d wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:28 am
A_B wrote: ↑Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:11 pmI was getting that response either way right?
No. I'm not unique, but people who change their views because now it affects them infuriate me. Like I knew a guy in college who was against gay marriage but conceded if he had a gay child maybe he'd reconsider. And Nancy Reagan and stem cells. The worst.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!

Posted: **Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:29 pm**

What's clear is that a LOT of Americans have little to no compassion or empathy for others. And because of this, they just don't understand the actions of those that do. They look like idiots or cowards to them, because their concerned about things that don't matter. But then, of course, when these people lose their job, have a baby, have a gay kid, etc., NOW they totally get it. But of course, they only get the IT that's exactly, directly applicable to them - still oblivious to anything else that might help others but doesn't directly affect them.

Posted: **Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:50 pm**

Shirley wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:29 pm What's clear is that a LOT of Americans have little to no compassion or empathy for others. And because of this, they just don't understand the actions of those that do. They look like idiots or cowards to them, because their concerned about things that don't matter. But then, of course, when these people lose their job, have a baby, have a gay kid, etc., NOW they totally get it. But of course, they only get the IT that's exactly, directly applicable to them - still oblivious to anything else that might help others but doesn't directly affect them.

Selfishness has been the overarching Republican economic “principle” since Reagan.

Posted: **Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:10 pm**

It's the overarching principle of capitalism

Posted: **Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:52 am**

HaulCitgo wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:10 pm It's the overarching principle of capitalism

Well, sure, which is why we have government to regulate and redistribute.

But then conservative economics came around, talking about "efficiency", and basically sold the country on the idea that if everyone just acts in their own self-interest, we'll all be better off. Somehow.

Posted: **Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:49 pm**

Not conservative economics. Just economics. A major pillar of our civilization. If you have an issue with that you should really make like Brian and move (not intended to be derisive just your only realistic option). Its what the country is. Foundational. Not changing, nor should it probably.

Posted: **Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:09 pm**

Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, Unemployment...

Posted: **Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:10 pm**

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:09 pm Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, Unemployment...

Those things could never happen.

Posted: **Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:43 pm**

Steve was right when he said govt must regulate and redistribute thus the safety net programs. But this is still a capitalist society. Everyone votes with their pockets and well, walmart.

Posted: **Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:16 pm**

HaulCitgo wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:49 pm Not conservative economics. Just economics. A major pillar of our civilization. If you have an issue with that you should really make like Brian and move (not intended to be derisive just your only realistic option). Its what the country is. Foundational. Not changing, nor should it probably.

No, things really did become different when Reagan came in and ushered in supply-side economics and the rest.

Posted: **Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:31 pm**

You keep qualifying economics. It's 101. The first thing you learn. Invisible hand.

Posted: **Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:41 pm**

I disagree that callousness is a necessary component of capitalism. It's just not. It can be, of course, but it's not necessary. That we've equated the two lately in the US doesn't mean they're the same thing.

Posted: **Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:50 pm**

HaulCitgo wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:31 pm You keep qualifying economics. It's 101. The first thing you learn. Invisible hand.

Our system isn't 100% free market and hasn't been for at least a 100 years, if ever.

Posted: **Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:53 pm**

HaulCitgo wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:31 pm You keep qualifying economics. It's 101. The first thing you learn. Invisible hand.

I guess I am not sure what you are talking about. I don't recall anything in economics saying that everybody should act as selfishly as possible for the greater good of all.

I remember learning about things like the tragedy of the commons, which indicates that if everyone acts selfishly, it can lead to disaster.

I also remember learning that the invisible hand was just a metaphor and that it was not a prescription for how economies should run in the real world.

Posted: **Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:59 pm**

The Sybian wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:50 pm
HaulCitgo wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:31 pm You keep qualifying economics. It's 101. The first thing you learn. Invisible hand.
Our system isn't 100% free market and hasn't been for at least a 100 years, if ever.

I mean, isn't it? Don't you as the end consumer ultimately have the final say whether or not to purchase said product? That's free market.

Don't get me wrong I know there's a ton of unfair competition and this doesn't apply universally (mostly under things that should be government controlled but aren't necessarily) but it's pretty damn close right? If everyone decides that Heinz Ketchup sucks, Heinz goes out of business.

Posted: **Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:14 pm**

BSF21 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:59 pm
The Sybian wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:50 pm
HaulCitgo wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:31 pm You keep qualifying economics. It's 101. The first thing you learn. Invisible hand.
Our system isn't 100% free market and hasn't been for at least a 100 years, if ever.
I mean, isn't it? Don't you as the end consumer ultimately have the final say whether or not to purchase said product? That's free market.

Don't get me wrong I know there's a ton of unfair competition and this doesn't apply universally (mostly under things that should be government controlled but aren't necessarily) but it's pretty damn close right? If everyone decides that Heinz Ketchup sucks, Heinz goes out of business.

Well, there is a minimum wage, environmental regulations, anti-trust laws, OSHA workplace regulations, Social Security, Unemployment Insurance, fair-trade laws, lemon laws... and 1000s of other laws and regulations on producers, sellers and employers, so no.

By 100% free market, I meant absolutely zero government oversite or involvement in the economy. Obviously there is a free market component to our economy, otherwise you are talking pure planned economy where all production is in the name of the government, and doled out to the people without any choice. We are much closer to free market than planned economy, but there is a lot of government regulation in our economy as well.

Posted: **Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:11 pm**

BSF21 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:59 pm
The Sybian wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:50 pm
HaulCitgo wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:31 pm You keep qualifying economics. It's 101. The first thing you learn. Invisible hand.
Our system isn't 100% free market and hasn't been for at least a 100 years, if ever.
I mean, isn't it? Don't you as the end consumer ultimately have the final say whether or not to purchase said product? That's free market.

Don't get me wrong I know there's a ton of unfair competition and this doesn't apply universally (mostly under things that should be government controlled but aren't necessarily) but it's pretty damn close right? If everyone decides that Heinz Ketchup sucks, Heinz goes out of business.

Yeah, we're not even close to a free market. Prices may not be controlled, and you aren't forced to buy it, but there's all kinds of regulations about what ingredients Heinz can and can't use in its ketchup. In addition to regulations about whom Heinz can employ to make it, how much they have to pay those people, whether the bosses can demand blowjobs from their employees as a condition of continued employment, etc.

Or, hell, who can legally sell something called "Heinz Ketchup."

Posted: **Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:24 pm**

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:11 pm
BSF21 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:59 pm
The Sybian wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:50 pm
HaulCitgo wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:31 pm You keep qualifying economics. It's 101. The first thing you learn. Invisible hand.
Our system isn't 100% free market and hasn't been for at least a 100 years, if ever.
I mean, isn't it? Don't you as the end consumer ultimately have the final say whether or not to purchase said product? That's free market.

Don't get me wrong I know there's a ton of unfair competition and this doesn't apply universally (mostly under things that should be government controlled but aren't necessarily) but it's pretty damn close right? If everyone decides that Heinz Ketchup sucks, Heinz goes out of business.
Yeah, we're not even close to a free market. Prices may not be controlled, and you aren't forced to buy it, but there's all kinds of regulations about what ingredients Heinz can and can't use in its ketchup. In addition to regulations about whom Heinz can employ to make it, how much they have to pay those people, whether the bosses can demand blowjobs from their employees as a condition of continued employment, etc.

Or, hell, who can legally sell something called "Heinz Ketchup."

The type of bottles they can package it in, the ingredients labels, amount of rat hair per gallon of ketchup...

Posted: **Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:28 pm**

Pretty much the starting point in economic theory:

"As every individual, therefore, endeavours as much as he can both to employ his capital in the support of domestic industry, and so to direct that industry that its produce may be of the greatest value; every individual necessarily labours to render the annual revenue of the society as great as he can. He generally, indeed, neither intends to promote the public interest, nor knows how much he is promoting it. By preferring the support of domestic to that of foreign industry, he intends only his own security; and by directing that industry in such a manner as its produce may be of the greatest value, he intends only his own gain, and he is in this, as in many other cases, led by an invisible hand to promote an end which was no part of his intention. Nor is it always the worse for the society that it was no part of it. By pursuing his own interest he frequently promotes that of the society more effectually than when he really intends to promote it. I have never known much good done by those who affected to trade for the public good. It is an affectation, indeed, not very common among merchants, and very few words need be employed in dissuading them from it."

Posted: **Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:32 pm**

HaulCitgo wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:28 pm Pretty much the starting point in economic theory:

"As every individual, therefore, endeavours as much as he can both to employ his capital in the support of domestic industry, and so to direct that industry that its produce may be of the greatest value; every individual necessarily labours to render the annual revenue of the society as great as he can. He generally, indeed, neither intends to promote the public interest, nor knows how much he is promoting it. By preferring the support of domestic to that of foreign industry, he intends only his own security; and by directing that industry in such a manner as its produce may be of the greatest value, he intends only his own gain, and he is in this, as in many other cases, led by an invisible hand to promote an end which was no part of his intention. Nor is it always the worse for the society that it was no part of it. By pursuing his own interest he frequently promotes that of the society more effectually than when he really intends to promote it. I have never known much good done by those who affected to trade for the public good. It is an affectation, indeed, not very common among merchants, and very few words need be employed in dissuading them from it."

Yes, it's the starting point. But it's never been the ending point as far as economics was concerned.

Plus, that theory only talks about economics, and not social policy (such as a social safety net).

The Reagan Revolution made the "invisible hand" the basis for social policy.

The Swamp

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