The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

Okay . . . let's try this again.

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Re: The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

Post by Steve of phpBB » Sat May 16, 2020 7:01 pm

This appears to be a good analysis.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/artic ... 43215.html
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.

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Re: The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

Post by tennbengal » Sat May 16, 2020 7:58 pm

The Obama speech was fire.

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Re: The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

Post by sancarlos » Sun May 17, 2020 12:10 am

DSafetyGuy wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 5:54 pm
Joe K wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 5:38 pm
DSafetyGuy wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 3:24 pm
tennbengal wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 1:58 pm
Problem with “uptick” is you should see an increase in numbers if more people are getting tested - more tests should find more cases. I am more partial to hospitalizations and ICU percentages filled as the market for problems.
I'm also interested in real numbers of COVID-19 deaths.
I've been pretty obsessively following statistics on COVID-19 deaths. Right now the total reported deaths in the US is just shy of 90K. Based on what I've read, the "real number" is likely 10-25% higher. So it's probably actually somewhere between 100-115K deaths. That being said, Steve is right that it's not at all an even distribution nationally. The Eastern Seaboard has gotten absolutely hammered, and it's been pretty bad in Michigan, Illinois and Louisiana. But the rest of the country has comparatively been doing a lot better. Hopefully that doesn't change as a result of premature reopening, but I don't think it's unreasonable to consider having fewer restrictions in areas that aren't as hard hit.


The good news is it sounds like my mom and sister are going to press their luck. My aunt and uncle invited them to their new place in Missouri, so it sounds like they're heading out in a couple weeks.

This sister works in a cancer treatment facility affiliated with the Cleveland Clinic.
Soooo... no extended family time for you for awhile?
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Re: The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

Post by rass » Sun May 17, 2020 7:41 am

Steve of phpBB wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 7:01 pm
This appears to be a good analysis.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/artic ... 43215.html
I twice wrote out what I hoped was a well thought out post worthy of debating with Steve and twice I somehow managed to refresh the page on my phone and lost it.

So I’ll just make of the author for dropping “notwithstanding” twice in close proximity in that article and ask whether you really think we know enough about the virus to be sure that predictions based on the spread in the US over the past month are likely to be anymore accurate than predictions made 2 months ago based on the spread in hotspots in the rest of the world the month prior to that? I’d say no, so while it’s important to be cognizant of scaremongering I think it still makes sense to be scared.
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Re: The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

Post by DSafetyGuy » Sun May 17, 2020 9:06 am

sancarlos wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 12:10 am
DSafetyGuy wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 5:54 pm
The good news is it sounds like my mom and sister are going to press their luck. My aunt and uncle invited them to their new place in Missouri, so it sounds like they're heading out in a couple weeks.

This sister works in a cancer treatment facility affiliated with the Cleveland Clinic.
Soooo... no extended family time for you for awhile?
When I spoke to my dad in February, we tentatively planned on him coming up for a visit for Easter. When he called me the week prior to confirm that he was not coming, I had to tell him that, while I remembered the conversation, I had long since filed the idea of him (or anyone) visiting in the trash pile. While we're yet to have anyone ask about visiting since then, we're firmly in the "no" camp, regardless of whom.

If things continue to ease and Syracuse still runs their high school football camp the last weekend of July (I'm surprised they haven't pulled the plug yet, but their calendar placement is likely the only reason - I'm sure they'e in no rush because lots of other schools have had to cancel their camps, creating a potential recruiting advantage for them), we're okay with my friend, his wife, and son staying with us. But, we'll see if that even happens.
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Re: The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

Post by Steve of phpBB » Sun May 17, 2020 9:35 am

rass wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 7:41 am
Steve of phpBB wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 7:01 pm
This appears to be a good analysis.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/artic ... 43215.html
I twice wrote out what I hoped was a well thought out post worthy of debating with Steve and twice I somehow managed to refresh the page on my phone and lost it.

So I’ll just make of the author for dropping “notwithstanding” twice in close proximity in that article and ask whether you really think we know enough about the virus to be sure that predictions based on the spread in the US over the past month are likely to be anymore accurate than predictions made 2 months ago based on the spread in hotspots in the rest of the world the month prior to that? I’d say no, so while it’s important to be cognizant of scaremongering I think it still makes sense to be scared.
I don’t think we know enough to be sure about much. And I think we’re probably in for a rough autumn, especially if schools reopen.

But I get the sense that many on the left are being nearly as ideological about this as the wackjobs on the right. So when a southern red-state governor announces any easing of restrictions, there’s a huge pile-on of tweets about how they’re all gonna die. And I think it’s creating a huge “crying wolf” situation as these constantly predicted doom fails to materialize.

Plus, I do find it ironic, or maybe “ironic,” that the same folks who argue that promoting abstinence doesn’t work are also arguing that we can just expect everyone to remain in isolation for months on end.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.

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Re: The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

Post by tennbengal » Sun May 17, 2020 9:48 am

Agreed. That last paragraph dovetails with that article I think I put in here around a week ago - abstinence (staying at home eternally) in these circumstances is a next to impossible sell.

Georgia has been open for awhile now - I haven’t seen reports that their hospitalizations are surging.

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Re: The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

Post by Ryan » Sun May 17, 2020 9:58 am

A. Nearly every public health expert says we will lose a significantly increasing amount of lives by reopening, especially in an irresponsible way. Whether that’s more or less true for your particular area or how high your tolerance is for your neighbor’s grandmother or a college kid from Louisiana getting sick does not make it anything close to scaremongering.

B. Can you reconsider your weird abstinence analogy while imagining that anyone with an STD could give it to 100 people at a restaurant because the air conditioning was pointed in a certain direction, and maybe 20 of those people would end up in the hospital or morgue?
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Re: The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

Post by mister d » Sun May 17, 2020 10:01 am

(And some who should go to the hospital will skip because M4A is a leftist utopian pipe dream.)
rass wrote:
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Re: The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

Post by tennbengal » Sun May 17, 2020 10:18 am

Ryan wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 9:58 am
A. Nearly every public health expert says we will lose a significantly increasing amount of lives by reopening, especially in an irresponsible way. Whether that’s more or less true for your particular area or how high your tolerance is for your neighbor’s grandmother or a college kid from Louisiana getting sick does not make it anything close to scaremongering.

B. Can you reconsider your weird abstinence analogy while imagining that anyone with an STD could give it to 100 people at a restaurant because the air conditioning was pointed in a certain direction, and maybe 20 of those people would end up in the hospital or morgue?
My point was, as was that article, that people learned to lives with hiv (and fuck)and still go about their lives in the 80s. Abstinence was not the only option. Here, staying sequestered 100% is also not an option, there’s ways to be out in public and minimize risk. The all or nothing on each end of this is weird to me.

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Re: The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

Post by brian » Sun May 17, 2020 10:21 am

Most of the states who have started re-opening have done so tentatively and using the best possible social distancing, sanitization, etc protocols from WHO, CDC and others. Even those states still all have (as far as I'm aware) bans on gatherings of more than about 20 to 50 people.

There may be a middle ground where restaurants running at 50 percent capacity, retail stores open but only if they can ensure people not in close proximity and yes, people still responsibly making sure to only go out if they have to can ensure the medical systems don't get overloaded.

I don't agree with the philosophy that we need to sacrifice some people for the economy, but the fact is the some people were always going to continue to die as long as there is not a vaccine or a treatment or something. As a society, we should make sure that total is as low as possible while acknowledging that most or all businesses being shut down for 18 to 24 months isn't a realistic scenario. Other countries are grappling with this as well. That's why there's a Bundesliga game on right now and somewhere in Munich there's probably a restaurant where there's 20 or 30 or so people having some dinner and a stein of beer while the staff are wearing masks and everyone is staying 8 to 10 feet apart.
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Re: The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

Post by Ryan » Sun May 17, 2020 10:35 am

tennbengal wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 10:18 am
Ryan wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 9:58 am
A. Nearly every public health expert says we will lose a significantly increasing amount of lives by reopening, especially in an irresponsible way. Whether that’s more or less true for your particular area or how high your tolerance is for your neighbor’s grandmother or a college kid from Louisiana getting sick does not make it anything close to scaremongering.

B. Can you reconsider your weird abstinence analogy while imagining that anyone with an STD could give it to 100 people at a restaurant because the air conditioning was pointed in a certain direction, and maybe 20 of those people would end up in the hospital or morgue?
My point was, as was that article, that people learned to lives with hiv (and fuck)and still go about their lives in the 80s. Abstinence was not the only option. Here, staying sequestered 100% is also not an option, there’s ways to be out in public and minimize risk. The all or nothing on each end of this is weird to me.
Well yeah, but where are we on preparedness and education for COVID now in relation to AIDS in, say, 1993?
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Re: The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

Post by tennbengal » Sun May 17, 2020 10:37 am

That’s where I am (Brian’s post).

I can wear a mask in stores - I don’t what the fuck that insanity is with people who won’t wear masks in public places inside - i can follow guidelines as to how to safely frequent restaurants when they do re-open if I choose to do that - but I don’t see keeping that stuff closed forever.

And while some of it is delicate - the “economy”really means peoples jobs. I think you have to open as much of it as you can for that - that’s health insurance, mortgages, rent, and the rest of it. I don’t think I’m the asshole (but maybe) for looking for a balance.

Middle of last week it became apparent something was brewing at work - you can sense these things. Jen and I called her dad to ask (even though we knew it was yes) if he was ok with us moving in with him Brevard, NC because if my job goes we have no other choice. 2/3 of our salary and our health insurance is with me. And the legos market here in the DMV is awash with laid off attorneys so forget finding work and especially forget finding work making anywhere near my current salary. Lay-off is immediate ticket to moving in with my father-in-law.

Found out Friday that my spider senses were right - 25 attorneys axed - no severance. Just, immediately gone. Thankfully, I have spent years never saying no to any assignment and doing everything I can to be valuable (and never ever asking for a raise , so, bad and good there) and survived. Work is gonna be bad for awhile - double and all that - but as least I have my gig. For now. But it’s all tenuous as hell. The courts around here think their earliest they will conduct jury trials is maybe September or or October. The backdrop to all litigation and hammer of trial to force settlement talks will be gone for quite awhile. Hoping there won’t be a round 2, but...come the fall, who knows.

There has to be a compromise between everyone stays in and everything opens as if normal.
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Re: The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

Post by tennbengal » Sun May 17, 2020 10:40 am

Ryan wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 10:35 am
tennbengal wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 10:18 am
Ryan wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 9:58 am
A. Nearly every public health expert says we will lose a significantly increasing amount of lives by reopening, especially in an irresponsible way. Whether that’s more or less true for your particular area or how high your tolerance is for your neighbor’s grandmother or a college kid from Louisiana getting sick does not make it anything close to scaremongering.

B. Can you reconsider your weird abstinence analogy while imagining that anyone with an STD could give it to 100 people at a restaurant because the air conditioning was pointed in a certain direction, and maybe 20 of those people would end up in the hospital or morgue?
My point was, as was that article, that people learned to lives with hiv (and fuck)and still go about their lives in the 80s. Abstinence was not the only option. Here, staying sequestered 100% is also not an option, there’s ways to be out in public and minimize risk. The all or nothing on each end of this is weird to me.
Well yeah, but where are we on preparedness and education for COVID now in relation to AIDS in, say, 1993?
Better than we were in 1985 when hiv was new and terrifying. We’ve got a pretty good roadmap from experts - wear masks - wash your hands a ton- avoid crowds indoors - outdoors activities look pretty ok - socially distance with folks even outdoors but especially indoors.

None of that is hard to follow. The same experts say if we can do that in enough numbers this can be beaten back.

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Re: The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

Post by Ryan » Sun May 17, 2020 10:43 am

So you're PROBABLY right and scientific data has come a long way in 40 years, but can you see where:

"...in 1985 when hiv was new and terrifying" might not make some people feel real good about "we've got a pretty good roadmap" 2 months in to this thing.
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Re: The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

Post by Ryan » Sun May 17, 2020 10:48 am

It also just really sucks that if you could have literally made everyone in the world stay put for 2 weeks in January or whatever, we'd be all set. Beyond impossible, but that carrot is hard to ignore when I look at whatever compromising steps we can take now. I'm obviously lucky to even think of that option.
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Re: The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

Post by tennbengal » Sun May 17, 2020 10:50 am

Ryan wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 10:43 am
So you're PROBABLY right and scientific data has come a long way in 40 years, but can you see where:

"...in 1985 when hiv was new and terrifying" might not make some people feel real good about "we've got a pretty good roadmap" 2 months in to this thing.
Well...in 1985 a lot of religious fundamentalists and the Christian Right (who were ascendant under Reagan) were busy high-fiving that god was killing the gays and there was very little push to figure this thing out quickly. That eventually changed when people realized it was infecting the straights too, but there was zero effort to get in front of this back then from the US government circa 1985 other than “stop fucking and close the bathhouses you dirty gays”.

Here? This has had the full attention of every epidemiologist and other health expert since early February for a virus already mostly mapped due to Covids 1-18...
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Re: The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

Post by tennbengal » Sun May 17, 2020 10:51 am

Ryan wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 10:48 am
It also just really sucks that if you could have literally made everyone in the world stay put for 2 weeks in January or whatever, we'd be all set. Beyond impossible, but that carrot is hard to ignore when I look at whatever compromising steps we can take now. I'm obviously lucky to even think of that option.
It’s absolutely infuriating. Trump and the other world leaders really fucked up.

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Re: The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

Post by EdRomero » Sun May 17, 2020 10:52 am

brian wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 10:21 am
That's why there's a Bundesliga game on right now and somewhere in Munich there's probably a restaurant where there's 20 or 30 or so people having some dinner and a stein of beer while the staff are wearing masks and everyone is staying 8 to 10 feet apart.
But Germany worked to get to this point with aggressive testing. The push to make thing normal makes sense if you're making progress (which I'm hoping is more than hospitals now have the space for you to die in them). It doesn't look like the areas opening are ready.

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Re: The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

Post by brian » Sun May 17, 2020 10:57 am

EdRomero wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 10:52 am
brian wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 10:21 am
That's why there's a Bundesliga game on right now and somewhere in Munich there's probably a restaurant where there's 20 or 30 or so people having some dinner and a stein of beer while the staff are wearing masks and everyone is staying 8 to 10 feet apart.
But Germany worked to get to this point with aggressive testing. The push to make thing normal makes sense if you're making progress (which I'm hoping is more than hospitals now have the space for you to die in them). It doesn't look like the areas opening are ready.
Some are and some aren’t. That’s really unfortunate and you’re right about testing and contact tracing but we’re more or less on our own with the federal government a shambolic mess. Personal responsibility is more important than ever. My wife would normally go out to dinner once a week or so. That might be once a month (or less) for us even in a “re-opened” Nevada.
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Re: The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

Post by degenerasian » Sun May 17, 2020 10:57 am

Italy is going to open it's border on June 3 to increase tourism, which sounds insane to me.
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Re: The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

Post by mister d » Sun May 17, 2020 11:00 am

TB that sucks, and I assume every one of us has that fear, but the response isn’t sacrifice XX,XXX citizens so we can do our normal work, it’s to demand the government keep the people (versus “the economy”) afloat until we can safely work.
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Re: The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

Post by Ryan » Sun May 17, 2020 11:03 am

tennbengal wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 10:50 am
Here? This has had the full attention of every epidemiologist and other health expert since early February for a virus already mostly mapped due to Covids 1-18...
Kids are fine.
It might be affecting kids.

Just wash your hands.
Also stay 6 feet apart so you don't breathe it in.
Actually, make it 10 maybe?

If we could only know if we were immune.
You might still be able to get it again.

I'm still closer to "we don't know shit" than I'm being told to be.
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Re: The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

Post by tennbengal » Sun May 17, 2020 11:09 am

mister d wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 11:00 am
TB that sucks, and I assume every one of us has that fear, but the response isn’t sacrifice XX,XXX citizens so we can do our normal work, it’s to demand the government keep the people (versus “the economy”) afloat until we can safely work.
But that frame isn’t right, D. Looking for a safe general opening doesn’t entail sacrificing citizens. And the govt should obviously fucking do something. But it’s clear the federal response is over. So what are we left with? Taking as many precautions as is reasonable while trying to operate normally.

Jen’s been back in the classroom for a few years now - a balt City school teacher of a multi-grade Montessori classroom ages 6-9. This isn’t a theoretical discussion for me. We talk about it everyday. When the fall gets here - will she be back in the germ factory that is teaching kids at that age? Likely - yes. Because I don’t see how schools can remain closed and parents still work (who will watch the kids?) Not in the balt city world anyway. So figuring out how to do that as safely as possible is at the forefront of our thinking - but it is coming. And I know that practically nothing will change between now and then when it comes to government response. So I am super eager to figure out how to minimize her risk. But we will be taking that risk on, we don’t have any choice. The feds abandoned that when they didn’t do the right thing in January...
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Re: The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

Post by tennbengal » Sun May 17, 2020 11:10 am

Ryan wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 11:03 am
tennbengal wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 10:50 am
Here? This has had the full attention of every epidemiologist and other health expert since early February for a virus already mostly mapped due to Covids 1-18...
Kids are fine.
It might be affecting kids.

Just wash your hands.
Also stay 6 feet apart so you don't breathe it in.
Actually, make it 10 maybe?

If we could only know if we were immune.
You might still be able to get it again.

I'm still closer to "we don't know shit" than I'm being told to be.
This is all fair. Definitely. I get it. I do.

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Re: The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

Post by degenerasian » Sun May 17, 2020 11:29 am

mister d wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 11:00 am
TB that sucks, and I assume every one of us has that fear, but the response isn’t sacrifice XX,XXX citizens so we can do our normal work, it’s to demand the government keep the people (versus “the economy”) afloat until we can safely work.
Not just government but companies too. As we have discussed here, the definition of 'essential service' is very murky. I work for the Securities Commission which is deemed an essential service. It remained open throughout and the execs would have been allowed to force everyone into the office. But they decided that other than mailroom receiving packages, everyone worked from home.

My wife works for Walmart and they're pedal to the metal. Whenever we can open, we're opening. Whatever hours you allow us to open, we'll try to sneak in one more. Whatever non-safety precautions we can get away with we will. Health inspection came back and said you must wipe down every basket before you give it to a customer. Solution: remove baskets. Now people bring their own reusable baskets which is worse and it's easier to steal that way. But hey, we don't have to hire a person to wipe down baskets. Shopping carts are not wiped down, have at it.

A business re-opens and it pushes the limits, and people go there and push the limits too. Should government have to protect everyone from themselves all the time?

I have to take an exam from home this Friday night with a proctor staring at me through a webcam for 2 hours. Why? Why can't the testing center open and just schedule exams 2 desks apart and make everyone wear masks? The testing center isn't even for regular students, who take their exams in auditoriums.
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Re: The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

Post by degenerasian » Sun May 17, 2020 11:30 am

Not only how can you open schools and parents work (who will watch kids), if you close the school you have to close everything else as well like libraries and fitness centers because that's where kids are going to go.
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Re: The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

Post by degenerasian » Sun May 17, 2020 12:32 pm

Great breakdown by one of the local businesses here, Prairie Dog Brewing, on the challenges of re-opening a restaurant in a pandemic, both from a safety and revenue perspective.

https://www.prairiedogbrewing.ca/challe ... -covid-19/
With the above programs in place and without any discretionary spending that wasn’t already discussed, we need to earn more than $160k/month, or an average of about $5,400 per day if we reopen for dine-in business. We believe that we can eventually achieve that kind of revenue, but it will take both time and a well-executed strategy to get there, and for a while we will have significant losses to overcome. For now, while we build that strategy and address the other challenges on this list, it makes far more sense to stick with the takeout and delivery model, where we are not quite breaking even, but are not losing anywhere close to what we might if we try to reopen for dine-in and don’t earn revenue approaching $160k/mo.
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Re: The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

Post by govmentchedda » Sun May 17, 2020 2:36 pm

Ryan wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 11:03 am
tennbengal wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 10:50 am
Here? This has had the full attention of every epidemiologist and other health expert since early February for a virus already mostly mapped due to Covids 1-18...
Kids are fine.
It might be affecting kids.

Just wash your hands.
Also stay 6 feet apart so you don't breathe it in.
Actually, make it 10 maybe?

If we could only know if we were immune.
You might still be able to get it again.

I'm still closer to "we don't know shit" than I'm being told to be.
Exactly where I am with this. Absolutely no trust in my governor or president, and I'd say it's only about 40% masks that I'm seeing when I have to grocery shop.
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Re: The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

Post by DSafetyGuy » Sun May 17, 2020 2:47 pm

tennbengal wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 9:48 am
Georgia has been open for awhile now - I haven’t seen reports that their hospitalizations are surging.
Well, we'll get a better idea since they had to fix this "slight" issue with their graph of cases.

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Re: The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

Post by tennbengal » Sun May 17, 2020 2:56 pm

DSafetyGuy wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 2:47 pm
tennbengal wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 9:48 am
Georgia has been open for awhile now - I haven’t seen reports that their hospitalizations are surging.
Well, we'll get a better idea since they had to fix this "slight" issue with their graph of cases.

There is that. Gaming the system makes it hard to know. Another unfortunate brick in the wall. Since they went first, data that is actionable would have been nice...

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Re: The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

Post by BSF21 » Sun May 17, 2020 4:37 pm

degenerasian wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 12:32 pm
Great breakdown by one of the local businesses here, Prairie Dog Brewing, on the challenges of re-opening a restaurant in a pandemic, both from a safety and revenue perspective.

https://www.prairiedogbrewing.ca/challe ... -covid-19/
With the above programs in place and without any discretionary spending that wasn’t already discussed, we need to earn more than $160k/month, or an average of about $5,400 per day if we reopen for dine-in business. We believe that we can eventually achieve that kind of revenue, but it will take both time and a well-executed strategy to get there, and for a while we will have significant losses to overcome. For now, while we build that strategy and address the other challenges on this list, it makes far more sense to stick with the takeout and delivery model, where we are not quite breaking even, but are not losing anywhere close to what we might if we try to reopen for dine-in and don’t earn revenue approaching $160k/mo.
Thanks for this. An exceptional insight into an actual owner’s experience. Hard to see how anyone opens up and doesn’t fail this year if these are the real costs. Wild.
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Re: The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

Post by Pruitt » Sun May 17, 2020 5:10 pm

tennbengal wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 10:18 am
Ryan wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 9:58 am
A. Nearly every public health expert says we will lose a significantly increasing amount of lives by reopening, especially in an irresponsible way. Whether that’s more or less true for your particular area or how high your tolerance is for your neighbor’s grandmother or a college kid from Louisiana getting sick does not make it anything close to scaremongering.

B. Can you reconsider your weird abstinence analogy while imagining that anyone with an STD could give it to 100 people at a restaurant because the air conditioning was pointed in a certain direction, and maybe 20 of those people would end up in the hospital or morgue?
My point was, as was that article, that people learned to lives with hiv (and fuck)and still go about their lives in the 80s. Abstinence was not the only option. Here, staying sequestered 100% is also not an option, there’s ways to be out in public and minimize risk. The all or nothing on each end of this is weird to me.
Let me just say as someone who was an adult in the mid 80s, HIV was a near immediate death sentence. There were no treatments available for a hell of a long time. While it was pretty much confined to the Gay community and intravenous drug users, I must reiterate that there wasn't a second chance for anyone who got AIDS for a long, long time.

You simply can not compare the two. There were never "sky is falling" projections of mass deaths outside of the Gay community. But a hell of a lot of people my age know people and had friends (gay and straight) who died pretty quickly from Aids.
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Re: The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

Post by mister d » Sun May 17, 2020 5:41 pm

Well, the other difference is that instead of sex/drugs the risk factors now are “buying food” or “going to work”. So less fatal, but also far more difficult/impossible to mitigate against.
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Re: The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

Post by tennbengal » Sun May 17, 2020 5:45 pm

Pruitt wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 5:10 pm
tennbengal wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 10:18 am
Ryan wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 9:58 am
A. Nearly every public health expert says we will lose a significantly increasing amount of lives by reopening, especially in an irresponsible way. Whether that’s more or less true for your particular area or how high your tolerance is for your neighbor’s grandmother or a college kid from Louisiana getting sick does not make it anything close to scaremongering.

B. Can you reconsider your weird abstinence analogy while imagining that anyone with an STD could give it to 100 people at a restaurant because the air conditioning was pointed in a certain direction, and maybe 20 of those people would end up in the hospital or morgue?
My point was, as was that article, that people learned to lives with hiv (and fuck)and still go about their lives in the 80s. Abstinence was not the only option. Here, staying sequestered 100% is also not an option, there’s ways to be out in public and minimize risk. The all or nothing on each end of this is weird to me.
Let me just say as someone who was an adult in the mid 80s, HIV was a near immediate death sentence. There were no treatments available for a hell of a long time. While it was pretty much confined to the Gay community and intravenous drug users, I must reiterate that there wasn't a second chance for anyone who got AIDS for a long, long time.

You simply can not compare the two. There were never "sky is falling" projections of mass deaths outside of the Gay community. But a hell of a lot of people my age know people and had friends (gay and straight) who died pretty quickly from Aids.
I am also that old and remember it in real time. That is all true, but also, people learned how to safely fuck and adapt their behaviors in those circumstances.

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Re: The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

Post by sancarlos » Sun May 17, 2020 8:43 pm

govmentchedda wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 2:36 pm
Ryan wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 11:03 am
tennbengal wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 10:50 am
Here? This has had the full attention of every epidemiologist and other health expert since early February for a virus already mostly mapped due to Covids 1-18...
Kids are fine.
It might be affecting kids.

Just wash your hands.
Also stay 6 feet apart so you don't breathe it in.
Actually, make it 10 maybe?

If we could only know if we were immune.
You might still be able to get it again.

I'm still closer to "we don't know shit" than I'm being told to be.
Exactly where I am with this. Absolutely no trust in my governor or president, and I'd say it's only about 40% masks that I'm seeing when I have to grocery shop.
I don't see that many masks on the city streets, but thank goodness the little independent grocer we patronize won't let you in their door without a mask.
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Re: The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

Post by HaulCitgo » Sun May 17, 2020 9:32 pm

Found a walkable from the house adult lemonade stand. Soccer tryouts on for next week. The brewery down the street is doing outdoor online sales. Last week of school but no vaca scheduled. Travel baseball started this weekend but not the local park. Trying hard to resist but the world is spinning without me. So far my solution is a washcloth of diluted bleach in a sandwich bag. Working on commandeering an Hermes bandana. Pray for me.

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Re: The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

Post by EdRomero » Thu May 21, 2020 10:11 am

My mom was fine skipping Easter and Passover, but Memorial Day Weekend -- She HAS TO visit my dad's and grandmother's grave and guess who should be there with her. Can you social distance in a car?

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Re: The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

Post by A_B » Thu May 21, 2020 10:12 am

EdRomero wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 10:11 am
My mom was fine skipping Easter and Passover, but Memorial Day Weekend -- She HAS TO visit my dad's and grandmother's grave and guess who should be there with her. Can you social distance in a car?
I mean. That's basically just a park. Might have to suck this one up.
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Re: The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

Post by Pruitt » Thu May 21, 2020 10:27 am

Cemeteries here are on very restricted hours and are limiting 5 visitors at any one grave.
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