The Swamp

WWII from Space



I don't know that much about WWII so I thought this was a cool 90 minute summary.

degenerasian wrote:WWII from Space



I don't know that much about WWII so I thought this was a cool 90 minute summary.

Thanks, that looks tremendous. Love WWII stuff. This has to be old, as History Channel stopped showing anything remotely about history long ago. I still look periodically for shows to record, and it is all reality crap. NatGeo, too. Fucking ghost hunting and shit. Can't wait to sit down and watch that whole clip.

it's new. made in late 2012.

I high;y recommend watching the Why We Fight series. They are documentary/propaganda films made by Frank Capra that were shown to the farm boys why exactly the US was fighting.

This is the film Prelude to War. All of them are available on Archive.org

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Didn't Reagan star in several of these propaganda films?

Holy shit that WW2 documentary was crazy.

The Sybian wrote:Didn't Reagan star in several of these propaganda films?

Why We Fight is generally made from pieces of Nazi and Japanese propaganda films with some vignettes added. I haven't watched them for a few years, but I don't believe that the Gipper is in them.

Since our current wars are being fought largely by the intelligence community, this thread seems a good place for this good opinion article (short too, ~1500 words).

We’re The Good Guys

"Ur Imperialism"

That sounds like a high brow version of 'MURICA.

I think that is a good point, johnnie.

Except that is not what "Ur" means. But sticking with German, at least partially, "Designer Weltanschauung" would be more accurate.

Any German word with a single syllable deserves special consideration. The proper German word probably wouldn't fit on one line.

But I do like the back-to-back 'u's in weltangschauung. Rolls elegantly off the tongue.

Scottie wrote:Except that is not what "Ur" means.

Good call. I've seen ur mostly when referring to the Karlsberg beer: Ur Pils. I figured there was another meaning to it. Upon Googling, there isn't.

I guess it's cognitive dissonance mixed with a country's collective überegocentrism, maybe. Not sure I reasoned that as well as you did.

"Ur Imperialism" is weighted toward one multisyllabic English word; a word which at least some of America will understand but the structure is meant to have a degree of immediate accessibility that Americans will misinterpret as some greater or uniquely American "special" form of Imperialism. There is little uniquely American that could be rightly called prototypical or Imperialistic; the phrase is off the mark by miles in that misplacement of usage. Americans won't understand "Ur" any more than they'll understand "Weltanschauung". In fact, they are far more likely to misunderstand "Ur".

Whereas "Designer Weltanschauung" pretty much nails it. An inward looking prefabricated mass-produced name brand and stylish artificial worldly mindset gazing through redwhiteandblue colored glasses.

Scottie wrote:Whereas "Designer Weltanschauung" pretty much nails it. An inward looking prefabricated mass-produced name brand and stylish artificial worldly mindset gazing through redwhiteandblue colored glasses.

Heh. I like that.

And Germany does have a way of wordsmithing down to a science.

Scottie wrote:There is little uniquely American that could be rightly called prototypical or Imperialistic;

That sure sounds like a juicy challenge. Like waving a steak in front of a pit bull.

I'm only gonna rise to it a little bit. And offer the flavor of economic imperialism used more or less from the mid 1930s to the mid or late 60s. Using bought off dictators, supplemented with covert ops and occasional, limited military intervention. Without the formal apparatus of British imperialism; without massive military occupation.

The process continued beyond the 60s, but by then it was no longer unique; the Soviets were doing the same thing, copying our model.

Yeah, I admit this can easily be dismissed as a distinction w/o a difference, when compared to British imperialism, much less to the Spanish in South and Central America, western powers in Africa. And if I were better educated in the history of Roman empire, I might not have bothered with this post.

But, in my own cynical way, I want us, the US, to be Special. I suppose.

We're gonna need you and your buddies. Again. To do what you already fucking did.

Al-Qaeda-linked force captures Fallujah amid rise in violence in Iraq

Ramadi. Anbar. Fallujah. Didn't we already learn all these place names? Wonder if Obama still wants to claim credit for ending the Iraq war, or if he is good leaving that to Bush.

In my deranged period post 9-11, when I favored war against Iraq/Sadaam Hussein, my first opinion was that after destroying Al Qaada in the caves of Tora Bora (oops), that the US should leave Iraq alone. Because of uncertainty of what would follow regime change.

I was convinced that sending in the Marines was a good idea*, largely because I read an article that had been written a few years before, by the man who was now deputy Secretary of Defense, Paul Wolfowitz. The article proposed a partitioning of Iraq into three states, along ethnic and religious (Sunni/Shite) lines. This and other pieces I read convinced me that the people at the highest level of the Bush Administration, Cheney, Rummy, Wolfie, Richard Perle, Doug Feith, actually had a fucking clue.

My bad. Their embarrassingly incompetent management of post-war Iraq, evident on day one as the museums were looted, and on every day after that, proved these guys were ivory tower theorists who were unable to let go of their analyses, forecasts and intellectual theses, when reality contradicted them with a bitch-slap.

(*Also, because of Sadaam's unambiguous links to terror attacks on Israel, I considered regime change necessary. You know how I love my Israel. And his history, of invasion of his oil-rich neighbor, and being a violent, dangerous dick. Yeah, in an ideal world I would've weaned us from ME oil and let the rest of the world fight over the Persian Gulf fields, and found other ways to secure Israel. But living in the real world, I recognized we were hopelessly addicted to that oil, and would be for my lifetime or until some sci-fi energy breakthrough occurred. Beside, nobody elected me dictator.)

Yeah, I was a war monger. For about a year. But I was never an ideologue; as facts emerged and events rolled out, I changed my mind accordingly. I even voted for John fucking Kerry, so badly had this crew in whom I once placed such confidence had completely screwed the pooch for decades of American foreign policy.

Anyway, one of dem chickens came home to roost I guess.

rass wrote:Doctors Without Borders hospital hit by US air strike

Hearts and minds!

I'll be brief. Some of the shrillest criticisms of Assad and the Russians, emanating from the propaganda organs, are that 1)Assad uses 'barrel bombs', considered barbaric because of their inaccuracy; and 2) the Russians are irresponsible because they are killing civilians with their airstrikes. And, hilariously, US Defense secretary warned that Russia's military efforts, after a whole two days, was 'doomed to fail'. Just this morning, Obama said Russia was entering a quagmire.

Bad week for Barry's foreign policy. Didn't he escalate in Afghanistan back in 2009?

As Mr. Putin said in his landmark UN speech, "do you realize what you have done?" There is no good answer. We'll continue to slumber, but the rest of the western world is waking up to the realization.

I don't know what's hilarious about the US government leaders' comments that the Russian's are 'doomed to fail' and 'entering a quagmire.' Who knows better about this from their own experience?

With some luck and good management, the USA could just turn over the entirety of our role in the Middle East to the Russians. They enter, we leave. Free military bases. Perhaps we could leave them some expensive ordnance and equipment as an incentive. People are missing this aspect of our cunning foreign policy. History will see Barack Obama as a military commander ranking right up there with Br'er Rabbit.

"Oh, pleeze don't make the Iranian Revolutionary Guard march into Syria and Northern Iraq with Russian/Chinese air cover, pleeeze don't do that!"

Getting both Russia and China involved in the Middle East with boots on the ground will neutralize them as global superpowers for decades. If the brilliant Commander-In-Chief can further lure them into taking over the American role vis-a-vis Israel and Palestine, it only gets better.

Naturally, all this conquering will mean that Russia and China will quarrel about how to split the take. More neutralization. While they're flexing their awesome militaries, the good ol' USA can focus our surging on little things like K-12 education, climate change, the financial system, and in our spare time perhaps places like Detroit and Baltimore.

We should be getting to work on changing that pesky Constitutional Ammendment that prevents President Obama from keeping that title until he decides he's ready to hand it over to Michelle. Or his kids. Or perhaps switch things back to the way it was with George III, and get us a monarchy.

rass wrote:Doctors Without Borders hospital hit by US air strike

This pisses me off to no end. MSF even gave the US military the exact coordinates to the hospital two days ahead of time.

This was likely intentional. MSF facility treated Taliban wounded; US don't like that, despite international law, Geneva convention rules and basic human morality and decency.

S.O.P.

Just one more note.

Turkey Says Russian Fighter Jet Violated Its Airspace With Syria

A little fact that will not be widely reported. Turkey declared a five mile 'buffer zone' over Sryian territory several months ago. IOW, they moved their border. This is not that important, compared to another set of facts.

Turkey is a NATO country. If Turkey shoots down a Russian war plane, this could spark a war between them and Russia. If a NATO country is attacked, NATO doctrine/treaty calls for NATO to respond.

I'm just sayin'. I do not think such a chain of events will occur, that cooler heads in Berlin, Paris, Moscow et al would prevail. I can't see Turkey/Erdogan being so fucking stupid.

But this is not fun and games.

howard wrote:This was likely intentional. MSF facility treated Taliban wounded; US don't like that, despite international law, Geneva convention rules and basic human morality and decency.

S.O.P.

Well that's just fucking infuriating. Those doctors are remarkable human beings by any standard you use to measure it. Better than me. Certainly better than you.

Story keeps changing. But, basically, it was intentional.

U.S. General Says Afghans Requested Airstrike That Hit Kunduz Hospital

but, mission accomplished!

Doctors Without Borders Says It Is Leaving Kunduz After Strike on Hospital

What's left of them anyway.

It's beyond my levels of cynicism to believe that the US intentionally targeted a functioning MSF hospital. Cover up a terrible mistake? Sure. But not intentionally killing civilian doctors.

That is why it is so hard for cynicism to keep up with reality. It has happened plenty of times in the past, in Vietnam, and in Iraq. Specific targeting of civilian hospitals. Belief that US military personnel would not do this does not stand up to either history nor logic.

Of course they are capable of such evil acts; they are humans and they are not special humans. But, belief is a matter of choice. Knock yourself out.

howard wrote:But, belief is a matter of choice.

Not to get all scientific here but this is a rather egregious misconception. Our brains are engines that absorb information about reality. That information can only be obtained via your own personal observations and experiences. Whether or not you accept any given proposition as being true relies solely on how your brain interprets reality through those observations and experiences. Perhaps fratboy here simply hasn't lived as jaded a life as you.

So, all those religious people are not religious by choice. Got it.

howard wrote:That is why it is so hard for cynicism to keep up with reality. It has happened plenty of times in the past, in Vietnam, and in Iraq. Specific targeting of civilian hospitals. Belief that US military personnel would not do this does not stand up to either history nor logic.

Of course they are capable of such evil acts; they are humans and they are not special humans. But, belief is a matter of choice. Knock yourself out.

Also, the fact that some of the Afghan officials the US is working with have been arguing that the bombing was justified sure seems to undercut the narrative that hitting the hospital was an "accident." As does the fact that MSF specifically reported the coordinates of their hospital to Afghan and US forces days before the bombing. MSF is not backing down at all here and is calling for a war crimes investigation.

howard wrote:So, all those religious people are not religious by choice. Got it.

That's correct. Either that or they're just lying about it. Lying about it is a choice but that doesn't change what you actually think. Like, you could put on a flag pin and pretend that the US military are bastions of integrity but you still can't stop believing they blew up that hospital on purpose no matter how hard you try.

Shirley wrote:It's beyond my levels of cynicism to believe that the US intentionally targeted a functioning MSF hospital. Cover up a terrible mistake? Sure. But not intentionally killing civilian doctors.

I'm with you. Sure, it's possible that the US military decided to murder two dozen doctors in broad daylight ... but a massive fuckup seems more likely. The fact that the coordinates were given to someone in the military and then someone in the military ordered a strike on that exact place doesn't mean it was intentional.

No, but considering the amount of money that we spend on them, it's quite disconcerting. I'd almost rather think it was intentional.

Beyond that, MSF personnel at the facility “frantically” called U.S. military officials during the strike to advise them that the hospital was being hit and to plead with them to stop, but the strikes continued in a “sustained” manner for 30 more minutes.

Holy shit. This is unbelievable.

Jerloma wrote:

Beyond that, MSF personnel at the facility “frantically” called U.S. military officials during the strike to advise them that the hospital was being hit and to plead with them to stop, but the strikes continued in a “sustained” manner for 30 more minutes.

Holy shit. This is unbelievable.

Is it really? Think of how many times you read about friendly fire, and how long it takes for the people getting bombed or shelled to get through to the people doing the bombing or shelling?