Racism

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Re: Racism

Post by Shirley » Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:36 pm

The school question is interesting. Where I mostly grew up (Charlottesville) is fairly ethnically mixed (76.6% non-Hispanic white today, but probably was higher then) and I always had a fair number of black students in classes, but I can only remember two non-white teachers through middle school - a black woman for gym and a black man for typing. Not exactly the most academic of courses. I'm pretty sure there were some non-white teachers in the schools, but not many and I didn't have them. And I never had a male teacher until middle school (6th grade math).

In high school, I had a Japanese teacher (for French, oddly), but that's it. And only one female teacher the whole time, although it was an all-boys boarding school.

I had exactly one black professor in college, and she taught African American History. I think maybe one or two Asian professors as well, but otherwise, all white.

And then I got my MBA a few years ago, and again, all white professors, I think.

Pretty crazy to think about.
Totally Kafkaesque

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Re: Racism

Post by brian » Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:35 pm

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Re: Racism

Post by sancarlos » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:14 pm

University of Mississippi frat guys suspended for photographing themselves with guns in front of memorial to lynching victim Emmett Till.
The sign memorializing Emmett Till has been vandalized multiple times over the years but it's unclear whether the students in the photo caused the damage.

The marker was riddled with bullet holes last year, just days after it was installed. The Emmett Till Memorial Commission, the group responsible for the sign, said it will be replaced with a bulletproof version in October.
LINK
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Re: Racism

Post by Pruitt » Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:51 am



eta - first response:
"Pruitt is an outstanding representative of the team. The fans love him."

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Re: Racism

Post by mister d » Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:13 am

Perfect brutality.
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Re: Racism

Post by Pruitt » Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:48 am

Black Friday

The Corriero dello Sport is a big paper in Italy.

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Re: Racism

Post by govmentchedda » Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:02 am

They've had a fuckton of racist shit go on in Italian soccer this year. Unbelievable.
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Re: Racism

Post by rass » Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:09 am

govmentchedda wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:02 am
They've had a fuckton of racist shit go on in Italian soccer this year. Unbelievable.
That Guardian article Pruitt linked mentions a couple of cases at the end of the piece.
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Re: Racism

Post by P.D.X. » Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:38 pm

Image

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Re: Racism

Post by edwzipper » Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:57 pm

Army football program dropped motto of white supremacist origin

https://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... ist-origin

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Re: Racism

Post by Johnny Carwash » Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:00 pm

Raise your hand if you recognized that from the movie where Brian Bosworth infiltrates a biker gang.
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Re: Racism

Post by The Sybian » Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:58 pm

Why blur out their faces? If they want to give a Heil Hitler salute, show their faces.
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Re: Racism

Post by A_B » Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:34 am

Johnny Carwash wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:00 pm
Raise your hand if you recognized that from the movie where Brian Bosworth infiltrates a biker gang.
That's where the players got it from, allegedly. But color me skeptical.
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Re: Racism

Post by A_B » Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:34 am

The Sybian wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:58 pm
Why blur out their faces? If they want to give a Heil Hitler salute, show their faces.
Agree 100%.
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Re: Racism

Post by Sabo » Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:56 am

The Sybian wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:58 pm
Why blur out their faces? If they want to give a Heil Hitler salute, show their faces.
Because racists are cowards.
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Re: Racism

Post by Shirley » Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:43 am

I know I'm a white guy who can never really see the world through black eyes, but this ... it just seems nuts. It sounds like this woman is complaining that servers and patrons - at the VERY FANCY, she stresses, restaurants she goes to - are too friendly and helpful to her.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyl ... pSYw4zOSQ0

I get the impression that there's literally nothing anyone else could say or do (too much! too little!) to please this woman.
Totally Kafkaesque

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Re: Racism

Post by degenerasian » Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:58 am

Shirley wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:43 am
I know I'm a white guy who can never really see the world through black eyes, but this ... it just seems nuts. It sounds like this woman is complaining that servers and patrons - at the VERY FANCY, she stresses, restaurants she goes to - are too friendly and helpful to her.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyl ... pSYw4zOSQ0

I get the impression that there's literally nothing anyone else could say or do (too much! too little!) to please this woman.

That is insane and is totally self inflicted. How many times does the word white appear in the article? She is the one that is noticing color not others.
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Re: Racism

Post by DSafetyGuy » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:04 am

I don't want other patrons at bars/restaurants to talk with me. She may be the same. I also may not like foods/drinks the other patrons like, so their (unwanted) opinion may also be completely invalid to me.

Regarding servers, some probably are choosing to err on the side of simplicity in some cases (explaining the flavors of a particular beer, as opposed to naming the style of beer in her one experience) to save time of having to explain it twice - type of beer, then what it tastes like. They may not mean it as a slight to her, but it may be something to make their work easier.

I zoned out after that point and started skimming.
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Re: Racism

Post by brian » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:07 am

I sort of get what she's saying. I didn't read all the way through, just enough to get the idea, but there is the concept of soft bigotry of low expectations. I'm sure it can be really frustrating and condescending for some people to treat you differently because of how you look, but in the dining world, it doesn't just happen to people of color either.

Hell, in some restaurants in NYC or LA you can be treated similarly (like you might not know how a premier dining experience works if you're wearing clothes that clearly didn't cost four figures for the whole ensemble.
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Re: Racism

Post by mister d » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:16 am

I can't read the article, but my guess is its about unintentional condescension, along the lines of how certain guys will talk sports very differently with women than men because of their own assumptions. If you're knowledgeable about something and people just assume you aren't, repeatedly, I can see where the frustration would come from. Like my wife and I pretty much drink the exact same beer; if we went to ten breweries or beer bars, I'm betting that we wouldn't see uniform treatment and it would vary in a very predictable way.
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Re: Racism

Post by degenerasian » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:57 am

Servers see hundreds of people a day. Maybe an hour earlier he got in shit for not explaining something.

She needs to be less self absorbed and go with it. She is probably new and people are making sure she is ok, first impressions and all that. As with any restaurant if you become a regular then they will know.

I'm an Asian sports nut. Do you know how many times I've been in sports bars and people try to explain football to me? Then I just say play-action and everyone nods.
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Re: Racism

Post by brian » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:00 am

degenerasian wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:57 am
Servers see hundreds of people a day. Maybe an hour earlier he got in shit for not explaining something.

She needs to be less self absorbed and go with it. She is probably new and people are making sure she is ok, first impressions and all that. As with any restaurant if you become a regular then they will know.

I'm an Asian sports nut. Do you know how many times I've been in sports bars and people try to explain football to me? Then I just say play-action and everyone nods.
I don't think anyone would blame you if you said you felt frustrated by people assuming you don't know anything about XYZ sport because you're Asian. It doesn't necessary make them a racist and it doesn't make you a whiner either.
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Re: Racism

Post by degenerasian » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:10 am

brian wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:00 am
degenerasian wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:57 am
Servers see hundreds of people a day. Maybe an hour earlier he got in shit for not explaining something.

She needs to be less self absorbed and go with it. She is probably new and people are making sure she is ok, first impressions and all that. As with any restaurant if you become a regular then they will know.

I'm an Asian sports nut. Do you know how many times I've been in sports bars and people try to explain football to me? Then I just say play-action and everyone nods.
I don't think anyone would blame you if you said you felt frustrated by people assuming you don't know anything about XYZ sport because you're Asian. It doesn't necessary make them a racist and it doesn't make you a whiner either.
Sure but that's just business I think. Trying to make people feel comfortable. Like if you walked into a bubble tea or dim sum place, the person would take your order more carefully making sure you are ok with it. Until you become a regular.

If I walk into a bubble tea place, I have to take the initiative to ask for clarification.
Kung Fu movies are like porn. There's 1 on 1, then 2 on 1, then a group scene..

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Re: Racism

Post by Nonlinear FC » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:44 am

The problem with the article, is that the encounters are so subtle and open to interpretation that it's almost impossible to convince even the most open-minded person that she isn't basically ruining her own experience by being hyper-sensitive all the time.

Like the women that wanted her to stay and hang out at the Kimpton bar. That's being racist? They want her to be part of some performance? How 'bout they wanted to make a friend and it could've been a white - korean - latina - whatever woman who was by herself and they wanted to offer a bonding opportunity.

But, no, she sees that as them condescending to her. That's just weird to me.

I also find it telling that her husband and others are telling her to lighten up, to no avail.

I know it's easy as a white dude with privilege to dismiss this, and I will tuck the general notion away for future reference. But a less shitty and accusatory tone might've reached a lot more people that thought they were being helpful or friendly, when that can (at times) come off as condescending.
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Re: Racism

Post by Shirley » Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:28 pm

mister d wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:16 am
I can't read the article, but my guess is its about unintentional condescension, along the lines of how certain guys will talk sports very differently with women than men because of their own assumptions. If you're knowledgeable about something and people just assume you aren't, repeatedly, I can see where the frustration would come from. Like my wife and I pretty much drink the exact same beer; if we went to ten breweries or beer bars, I'm betting that we wouldn't see uniform treatment and it would vary in a very predictable way.
That's sort of the point she's making, although she refers to it as other people making her part of their entertainment or something. But then she gives a bunch of examples and all of them are completely dubious at best. Pretty much all examples of people actually being friendly or waitstaff/bartenders doing their job.

BTW, if you Google the headline, you can get a version that you can read. I forgot that that's what I had to.
Totally Kafkaesque

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Re: Racism

Post by degenerasian » Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:47 pm

You guys are not white dudes with privilege. Come on.
You are successful because of your hard work and your attitude. I can tell because you are very caring towards me and I appreciate it.

So don't use that as a caveat, just speak openly.
Kung Fu movies are like porn. There's 1 on 1, then 2 on 1, then a group scene..

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Re: Racism

Post by mister d » Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:57 pm

Shirley wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:28 pm
That's sort of the point she's making, although she refers to it as other people making her part of their entertainment or something. But then she gives a bunch of examples and all of them are completely dubious at best. Pretty much all examples of people actually being friendly or waitstaff/bartenders doing their job.
Alright, I did that. I see where you're coming from, but so does she and she specifically points out its not about the singular event, its the accumulation. I don't think she's arguing malice or even intent, just that her experience would not be the exact same if you flip one or two key variables.
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Re: Racism

Post by Nonlinear FC » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:26 pm

degenerasian wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:47 pm
You guys are not white dudes with privilege. Come on.
You are successful because of your hard work and your attitude. I can tell because you are very caring towards me and I appreciate it.

So don't use that as a caveat, just speak openly.
I'm a white guy that has never been pulled over by the police without a damn good reason (speeding on the highway.) I've never been followed around in a store while browsing. I have been given the benefit of the doubt in situations where I know with absolutely certainty a black guy would've been hassled (behind the scenes at high profile events, walking around in restricted areas without a badge, etc etc)

White dudes in America just get treated differently, especially if you dress the part.

And shit, if I put on my reflective vest, put a hard hat on and carry a clip board? I could seriously get into the Super Bowl in that get up.
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Re: Racism

Post by BSF21 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:51 pm

DSafetyGuy wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:04 am
I zoned out after that point and started skimming.
Yea I couldn't read it. She's self absorbed and clearly fancies herself a highbrow "foodie". She name drops every nice place she's ever been to and makes sure to note how expensive it was and how long she had to wait for a reservation. Self absorbed pricks are self absorbed pricks, whether they're whtie black brown green or purple.
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Re: Racism

Post by Shirley » Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:58 pm

degenerasian wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:47 pm
You guys are not white dudes with privilege. Come on.
You are successful because of your hard work and your attitude. I can tell because you are very caring towards me and I appreciate it.

So don't use that as a caveat, just speak openly.
Oh, I'm a privileged white dude. I would never claim otherwise. I'm pretty sure nearly everyone on this board is. And I have no doubt that this woman faces different forms of racism every single day that might never even notice. I just don't think the things she writes about here are really examples of it - certainly not more than they are examples of her humble bragging.
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Re: Racism

Post by A_B » Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:02 pm

Shirley wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:58 pm
degenerasian wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:47 pm
You guys are not white dudes with privilege. Come on.
You are successful because of your hard work and your attitude. I can tell because you are very caring towards me and I appreciate it.

So don't use that as a caveat, just speak openly.
Oh, I'm a privileged white dude. I would never claim otherwise. I'm pretty sure nearly everyone on this board is. And I have no doubt that this woman faces different forms of racism every single day that might never even notice. I just don't think the things she writes about here are really examples of it - certainly not more than they are examples of her humble bragging.
Yeah, degen, even if we aren't getting million dollar loans from daddy, we're still privileged white dudes when it comes to the types of things that we've never had to experience.
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Re: Racism

Post by Nonlinear FC » Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:06 pm

BSF21 wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:51 pm
DSafetyGuy wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:04 am
I zoned out after that point and started skimming.
Yea I couldn't read it. She's self absorbed and clearly fancies herself a highbrow "foodie". She name drops every nice place she's ever been to and makes sure to note how expensive it was and how long she had to wait for a reservation. Self absorbed pricks are self absorbed pricks, whether they're whtie black brown green or purple.
I mean, to be fair, she's a James Beard Award Winner. This is what she does for a living.

I don't begrudge the name dropping and stuff, that's the rarefied air she breathes.

But that doesn't negate the rest of your point, which severely undercuts the bulk of her article. She could've written this piece a 1000 different ways that would've painted a picture without making her look like an insufferable prick.
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Re: Racism

Post by mister d » Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:18 pm

I think the name dropping paints a clearer picture. If she doesn't say Curate, people could write it off as just someplace in the south and you know how southerners are.
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Re: Racism

Post by govmentchedda » Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:26 pm

Just here to say that Curate is fucking great.
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Re: Racism

Post by degenerasian » Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:33 pm

I see your point but this woman is elite, more elite than you guys. I dont think she been held down by societal norms.
Kung Fu movies are like porn. There's 1 on 1, then 2 on 1, then a group scene..

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Re: Racism

Post by BSF21 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:38 pm

A_B wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:02 pm
Shirley wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:58 pm
degenerasian wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:47 pm
You guys are not white dudes with privilege. Come on.
You are successful because of your hard work and your attitude. I can tell because you are very caring towards me and I appreciate it.

So don't use that as a caveat, just speak openly.
Oh, I'm a privileged white dude. I would never claim otherwise. I'm pretty sure nearly everyone on this board is. And I have no doubt that this woman faces different forms of racism every single day that might never even notice. I just don't think the things she writes about here are really examples of it - certainly not more than they are examples of her humble bragging.
Yeah, degen, even if we aren't getting million dollar loans from daddy, we're still privileged white dudes when it comes to the types of things that we've never had to experience.
Yep. This is the part that so many people have trouble handling. It's original sin. Doesn't matter how hard you've worked or how bad you had it growing up or anything. If you're born white and male in America, you've got a step up on everyone who wasn't. End of story. What you make of it is on you, but you're starting on first base from breath one.
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Re: Racism

Post by Pruitt » Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:48 pm

I figure that if a person from a specific group claims that something is racist, it more than likely is.

(Except when white Trump-lovers and Fox News watchers claim that they are victims of prejudice.)
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Re: Racism

Post by mister d » Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:49 pm

degenerasian wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:33 pm
I see your point but this woman is elite, more elite than you guys.
That's kinda the damn point. She lives this world and is treated like a novelty.
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Re: Racism

Post by degenerasian » Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:51 pm

Pruitt wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:48 pm
I figure that if a person from a specific group claims that something is racist, it more than likely is.
I disagree. There is a lot of made up stuff. So dont think that automatically.

Maybe I come from a unique place, white people have gone above and beyond for me all my life.
Kung Fu movies are like porn. There's 1 on 1, then 2 on 1, then a group scene..

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Re: Racism

Post by Pruitt » Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:55 pm

"More than likely."

But I get your point.
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