Racism

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The Sybian
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Re: Racism

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degenerasian wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:14 am
The Sybian wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:05 am
Shirley wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 6:38 pm I saw this earlier and honestly missed that it was the Racism thread. I thought it was just a stupid/weird billboard.
Yeah, I teach racial sensitivity training, and I just saw this as really lame and embarrassingly stupid, but didn't jump to racist. I did laugh and think appropriation, but didn't think people would actually call it out for that. It's just horrible local marketing, lighten up people!
Do you teach sensitivity training for a company? I think the training is great and teaches people different points of views that help in the workplace. However, the problem I find is that the executives take it a few steps too far. They always take the side of the aggrieved if there is someone who is offended, no matter how small, no matter how nuanced. They simply have the canned statement like above, "blah blah blah conflicts with the values of our inclusive and diverse organization." If a guy's been working for you 10 years, he's not racist or you would have known already. He just said something that offended one person and he can simply apologize for it and move on.
I work for an HR outsourcing company, with a co-employer relationship. I present to our clients. I know most of these classes are complete BS and nobody wants to hear it, so I present from the angle of being aware that coworkers may be interpreting what you are saying and jokes you make in a different way than you intend it. We have a couple video clips and I open up discussion. There are always people who disagree about what happened in the video. The best part, a Latina female blames her manager of discriminating against her and even says, "is it because I'm a woman? Is it because I'm Hispanic?" So I ask if they think there were any examples of discrimination. Being a racial sensitivity class, some people are afraid to say no, or want to be SJW heroes and find a way to say there is racism, but there wasn't. The manager pointed to a list of legitimate reasons he gave the accounts to a white male. So many 20-somethings jump all over me for saying there was no racism, and the conversations can get heated, so it stays fun for me. My goal is for people to stop and think that the racist jokes they make to their minority friend may not be well received, even if the friend laughs or makes a joke back. And I give examples of investigations I've done, where people laughed at the jokes, but were really hurt for years. Or weren't offended, but 3 years later when they were about to be fired, filed a lawsuit and pretended to be offended, and the coworker friends had to see their racial jokes quoted in a lawsuit.
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Re: Racism

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The Sybian wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:30 am
degenerasian wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:14 am
The Sybian wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:05 am
Shirley wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 6:38 pm I saw this earlier and honestly missed that it was the Racism thread. I thought it was just a stupid/weird billboard.
Yeah, I teach racial sensitivity training, and I just saw this as really lame and embarrassingly stupid, but didn't jump to racist. I did laugh and think appropriation, but didn't think people would actually call it out for that. It's just horrible local marketing, lighten up people!
Do you teach sensitivity training for a company? I think the training is great and teaches people different points of views that help in the workplace. However, the problem I find is that the executives take it a few steps too far. They always take the side of the aggrieved if there is someone who is offended, no matter how small, no matter how nuanced. They simply have the canned statement like above, "blah blah blah conflicts with the values of our inclusive and diverse organization." If a guy's been working for you 10 years, he's not racist or you would have known already. He just said something that offended one person and he can simply apologize for it and move on.
I work for an HR outsourcing company, with a co-employer relationship. I present to our clients. I know most of these classes are complete BS and nobody wants to hear it, so I present from the angle of being aware that coworkers may be interpreting what you are saying and jokes you make in a different way than you intend it. We have a couple video clips and I open up discussion. There are always people who disagree about what happened in the video. The best part, a Latina female blames her manager of discriminating against her and even says, "is it because I'm a woman? Is it because I'm Hispanic?" So I ask if they think there were any examples of discrimination. Being a racial sensitivity class, some people are afraid to say no, or want to be SJW heroes and find a way to say there is racism, but there wasn't. The manager pointed to a list of legitimate reasons he gave the accounts to a white male. So many 20-somethings jump all over me for saying there was no racism, and the conversations can get heated, so it stays fun for me. My goal is for people to stop and think that the racist jokes they make to their minority friend may not be well received, even if the friend laughs or makes a joke back. And I give examples of investigations I've done, where people laughed at the jokes, but were really hurt for years. Or weren't offended, but 3 years later when they were about to be fired, filed a lawsuit and pretended to be offended, and the coworker friends had to see their racial jokes quoted in a lawsuit.
Thanks, I think the work you do is really valuable. I wish we could hire you for a session. We're almost 50/50 white/non-white and 50-50 men/women so it's interesting.
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Re: Racism

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Syb, your training sounds like this Key and Peele skit and can be adapted to many different situations:



I think it nails it.
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Re: Racism

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Johnnie wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:03 pm Syb, your training sounds like this Key and Peele skit and can be adapted to many different situations:



I think it nails it.
We are in the process of revamping the training and using new videos, I would love to use this in the training. The last line is so perfect! I want to send this to my manager, but probably not suitable through work email. Definitely going to tell her to find it. Yeah, this is great.
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Re: Racism

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An idiot would take the last line to mean "all" gay folks are assholes so I can see your hesitation.

I'm of the opinion that satire is the best way to get a point across. Transpose the Keegan-Michael Key type of character with [any type of person here] and you can see that it works across the entire spectrum.

Hell, even the person who went "IT'S MA'AM!" in Game Stop because the petrified dude behind the counter used the wrong pronoun is another good video, IMO.

Society needs to rip the band-aid off, have the difficult discussions, and utilize an actual, no shit, judgment-free safe space for all in order to move forward. Otherwise, we'll just never know.
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Re: Racism

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Johnnie wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:24 pm An idiot would take the last line to mean "all" gay folks are assholes so I can see your hesitation.

I'm of the opinion that satire is the best way to get a point across. Transpose the Keegan-Michael Key type of character with [any type of person here] and you can see that it works across the entire spectrum.

Hell, even the person who went "IT'S MA'AM!" in Game Stop because the petrified dude behind the counter used the wrong pronoun is another good video, IMO.

Society needs to rip the band-aid off, have the difficult discussions, and utilize an actual, no shit, judgment-free safe space for all in order to move forward. Otherwise, we'll just never know.
It's gone backwards Johnnie. It's not judgement-free, it's judgement only. You can tell by all the forced self-reflection and apologies employers force people to do.

I'd really like to know what Syb thinks of the book, White Fragility, since he's in the training field. The book is really an entire diversity training seminar rolled into a book.
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Re: Racism

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Johnnie wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:24 pmI'm of the opinion that satire is the best way to get a point across.
I feel like this is risky, esp in a work setting, given the shit Chappelle (and I'm sure a dozen others) eventually dealt with.
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Re: Racism

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Oh, if the Air Force has mirrored corporate America in any way, you both are completely correct and I won't deny that.

But I don't know... Maybe it's in the way I frame my messaging or my candor or opinion in general, but I am definitely a person who takes on a "says what others are thinking" persona.

We had a non commissioned officer breakfast across our Group (think like there were multiple subdivisions of your respective businesses you work for in one room, but all the middle managers headed by your boss) and they wanted to talk about "our unprecedented times" and all that.

I spoke about some things and tried to frame stuff in such a way where I'm not mansplaining or white man-splaining and people seemed to laugh and get what I'm trying to say. I didn't talk down or judge anyone and it...seemed to go over well?

Those of you that have met me know how I talk and quickly point out the bullshit. Sometimes that's refreshing to others in a system that mandates forced opinions between people and look at it as "just another mandatory military function."
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Re: Racism

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So like a Simmons-Portnoy hybrid ; P
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Re: Racism

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mister d wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:29 pm So like a Simmons-Portnoy hybrid ; P
Way worse. Way worse.
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Re: Racism

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Wow. The Simmons-Portnoy-Benzino trifecta.
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Re: Racism

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mister d wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:58 pm Wow. The Simmons-Portnoy-Benzino trifecta.
Your post:

Image
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Re: Racism

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I wonder if there’s ever been confirmation that Mobb Deep doing “The War’s On” was a pay-to-play deal.
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Re: Racism

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“All I'm sayin' is, he comes near me, I'll put him in the wall.”
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Re: Racism

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She has two Black kids.
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Re: Racism

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And just like the rest of her type, she cares about her kids, not black kids.
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Re: Racism

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Without actually reading the Opinion, I don't think she held that the N-word doesn't constitute hostile work environment, it sounds like the Plaintiff had a shitty lawyer and didn't spell out the elements of the case when he filed the complaint. One of the elements is proving the act altered the work condition. Even if it's obvious that your boss calling you that word alters your condition of employment, the lawyer needs to state how. It can be something as simple as saying "I didn't feel comfortable or safe at work," but if you don't say it, the court can't imply it for you. Alternatively, it's possible the guy really didn't care, maybe it was a black guy he was friends with and they called each other the n-word since they were kids performing as a hip-hop duo. Actually being offended is an element. This is one of those things that sounds shocking out of context, but might not actually be bad. She isn't saying the n-word is acceptable, just that the Plaintiff failed to show it altered his working conditions.

Another thing, hostile work environment has a shockingly high standard. I remember reading cases in law school and being shocked at some of the horrific treatment of employees that courts found didn't rise to the level. I'd say close to 50% of the investigation I do are for HWE claims, and less than 10% are even remotely close to potentially meeting the standard. It annoys the hell out of me, because everyone knows the term and throws it out, but very few people have a clue as to the definition. For example, it has to be tied to membership in a protected class. Your boss can tie you to a post and flog you, but if it isn't because of your race, gender, religion, whatever, it isn't HWE. And a one-time use of an ethnic slur usually isn't considered enough, it has to be severe or pervasive behavior.
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Re: Racism

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Johnnie wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:24 pm An idiot would take the last line to mean "all" gay folks are assholes so I can see your hesitation.

I'm of the opinion that satire is the best way to get a point across. Transpose the Keegan-Michael Key type of character with [any type of person here] and you can see that it works across the entire spectrum.

Hell, even the person who went "IT'S MA'AM!" in Game Stop because the petrified dude behind the counter used the wrong pronoun is another good video, IMO.

Society needs to rip the band-aid off, have the difficult discussions, and utilize an actual, no shit, judgment-free safe space for all in order to move forward. Otherwise, we'll just never know.
I was more thinking I wasn't going to send my manager a video full of phallic images, sexes noises, etc... The first time I had to discuss a sexual harassment investigation with her was a bit awkward. I had to tell her the alleged expletive-filled pickup lines, or describing what was really sexual assault on several occasions. It was also weird putting this stuff in writing in my reports and sending it to our legal department to review, especially since the reviewing attorneys are almost all female (and one is seriously hot).

I usually get made fun of when I tell friends I present this training, because people assume the lame eye-roll worthy garbage, but when participants start debating the issues, it gets really interesting. I actually love presenting, and someone always has a new angle. The one topic that always gets a ton of pushback is discussing an employee getting fired because of a social media post. Some people always argue that their employer shouldn't be able to fire them for their personal blog or social media, but they almost always come around. I presented to the staff at a Vongerichten-owned restaurant, and two of the employees were lawyers in Nigeria, and one guy got really heated fighting me on this point. To the point the manager got embarrassed and flustered and tried to stop him, but that's where learning and change happens. I posed the guy the hypo of a White Supremacist posting about starting an ethnic cleansing campaign. If people know where he works and it impacts business, shouldn't the employer be able to fire him? If coworkers know this guy is planning on exterminating their race/religion, should they have to work next to the guy? I love walking people through these discussions and seeing them change their mind or POV.

Degen, I haven't read White Fragility, but what I've heard about it is mostly negative, that she overgeneralizes, actually demeans minorities in trying to protect them, and swings the "woke" pendulum way beyond the sensible limits.
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Re: Racism

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Great write-up Syb. Also the N-word was used after he was already in the process of being fired so it was not something she could rule on as it was not part of the plaintiff's case.

Looks like Booker just dug up a case because the N-word was in it.
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Re: Racism

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Real question is why would you pick a practice where you have to bring plaintiffs claims in federal court. Talk about a pain the ass. Listen to this lady.... Blah blah, legal technicality, blah, blah, blah. How about I do as little as possible and you cut me a check as large as possible?
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Re: Racism

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It’s obviously all very good, but the part where she clearly gives up on the ground and he doesn’t stop is what puts this one over the top.
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Re: Racism

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Pretty popular DC radio host for the afternoon drive time got canned for racist and homophonic rant on his personal podcast/side hustle podcast company. Did not listen to his show, but he got his gigs after interning in on the show I do listen to.

That station is very Caucasian. This host used to partner with LaVar Arrington and his previous partner was of Latin decent. But that station has been taking pretty big flack for lack of diversity.
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Re: Racism

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😳😳

ETA:

The original video:

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Re: Racism

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Looks like we will be forgetting the Titans

Alexandria's T.C. Williams High could have new name following Monday vote
https://wtop.com/alexandria/2020/11/ale ... nday-vote/
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Re: Racism

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wlu_lax6 wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:37 am Looks like we will be forgetting the Titans

Alexandria's T.C. Williams High could have new name following Monday vote
https://wtop.com/alexandria/2020/11/ale ... nday-vote/
My nieces' schools. Had no idea that they were named after such people.

Wonder if they've considered "Denzell Washington High?"
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Re: Racism

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Pruitt wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:16 am
wlu_lax6 wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:37 am Looks like we will be forgetting the Titans

Alexandria's T.C. Williams High could have new name following Monday vote
https://wtop.com/alexandria/2020/11/ale ... nday-vote/
My nieces' schools. Had no idea that they were named after such people.

Wonder if they've considered "Denzell Washington High?"
VA and Northern VA have a terrible reputation for naming things. Some were probably a bit less aggressively done than others. For example not too far from my house

J. E. B. Stuart High School was changed via a 7-4 vote to Justice High School in 2018. The school was founded in 1959 and part of the naming had to do with Fairfax County school board opposing racial integration in schools. Julianne Moore was one of the folks who pushed hard to get it changed (she attended the school before moving overseas).

Robert E. Lee High School is now John R. Lewis High School as of this year. The school was opened in 1958.

W.T. Woodson (Pro Golfer Steve Marino's school) is named after the long time school superintendent. Joined the school system in 1925. The Post says he was a gradualist on integration. Not sure everyone agrees with that.

Arlington Co has Washington-Liberty (formerly Washington-Lee until 2019). This school was actually named after the the university but dropped the &. This one was founded in 1929.
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Re: Racism

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And the Lee Jackson highway goes right through there as well.
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Re: Racism

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Pruitt wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:16 amWonder if they've considered "Denzell Washington High?"
I doubt it. He's always come off as a consummate professional in anything I've seen.
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Re: Racism

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I had no idea Eric Clapton is a racist. A guy who made his name reinterpreting the music of black blues artists. A guy who had a big hit with a Bob Marley song. And, now he and Van Morrison are protesting Covid-related lockdowns, too. Fuck.

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Re: Racism

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sancarlos wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:58 pm
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Re: Racism

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“Think of your freedom as a window. On one side is you and on the other side is the rest of the world. Do you think the government should decide the status of your window? Or do you think you should have full autonomy over the window, where you and only you decide when to keep it open and when to keep it closed and whether or not to add a child-safe barrier to it?”
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Re: Racism

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All I saw was the Variety headline and the accompanying article, and either the headline was explosively misleading or the article softpedaled what is going on.


But yeah that EC quote sucks.
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Re: Racism

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rass wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 5:22 pm All I saw was the Variety headline and the accompanying article, and either the headline was explosively misleading or the article softpedaled what is going on.


But yeah that EC quote sucks.
If they just did a generic rock song and used the proceeds to benefit musicians who can't play live, they'd get tons of credit. But, by making the song a political issue against the lockdown, they piss people off, instead. This below is from a different article that expands on the misleading Variety headline/article.
Van Morrison has been a vocal critic of the “fascist” lockdown policies to curb the spread of the coronavirus and the “pseudo-science” behind them for a while now. He’s released several songs about it. And now he’s enlisting Eric Clapton for another.
“Stand And Deliver,” out next week on 12/4, is yet another anti-lockdown blues track written by Morrison and performed by Clapton for Morrison’s Save Live Music campaign. Proceeds from the track will go to Morrison’s Lockdown Financial Hardship Fund to support musicians affected by the pandemic.
link
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Re: Racism

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I’m not saying it won’t turn out that way but what evidence is there that the single is “anti-lockdown?” Had Stereogum or Variety actually heard the song or is the assumption based on the source?
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Re: Racism

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rass wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 6:00 pm I’m not saying it won’t turn out that way but what evidence is there that the single is “anti-lockdown?” Had Stereogum or Variety actually heard the song or is the assumption based on the source?
Because he has already released multiple anti-lockdown, anti-science songs during the pandemic?
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Re: Racism

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EnochRoot wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 6:26 pm
rass wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 6:00 pm I’m not saying it won’t turn out that way but what evidence is there that the single is “anti-lockdown?” Had Stereogum or Variety actually heard the song or is the assumption based on the source?
Because he has already released multiple anti-lockdown, anti-science songs during the pandemic?
Right. Which is why, based on the headline I was expecting something inflammatory and literally all it says is that they recorded a song to benefit less fortunate musicians and venues affected by the pandemic-induced lockdowns. I’ve seen no proof that the reporters are doing anything more than you, me and sancarlos are doing by just assuming...
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Re: Racism

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rass wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 6:36 pm
EnochRoot wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 6:26 pm
rass wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 6:00 pm I’m not saying it won’t turn out that way but what evidence is there that the single is “anti-lockdown?” Had Stereogum or Variety actually heard the song or is the assumption based on the source?
Because he has already released multiple anti-lockdown, anti-science songs during the pandemic?
Right. Which is why, based on the headline I was expecting something inflammatory and literally all it says is that they recorded a song to benefit less fortunate musicians and venues affected by the pandemic-induced lockdowns. I’ve seen no proof that the reporters are doing anything more than you, me and sancarlos are doing by just assuming...
That Variety article lacks in some of the basic tenets of journalism by ignoring Morrison's other latest work.

ETA: we have evidence to suggest what his work will involve. That means we'd be presuming and not assuming, no?
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Re: Racism

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That I don’t know. And don’t know that it matters.

I do think that what we know about an artist can affect our enjoyment of their work. But no one hears Tears In Heaven and thinks it’s an anti-unlocked windows song, much less racist.
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EnochRoot
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Re: Racism

Post by EnochRoot »

rass wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:11 pm That I don’t know. And don’t know that it matters.

I do think that what we know about an artist can affect our enjoyment of their work. But no one hears Tears In Heaven and thinks it’s an anti-unlocked windows song, much less racist.
The takeaway here is that Van Morrison has now recruited Eric Clapton into a presumed anti-lockdown song, not whether the artists have done anything relevant to any of us in the past 40 years.
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Pruitt
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Re: Racism

Post by Pruitt »

EnochRoot wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:23 pm
rass wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:11 pm That I don’t know. And don’t know that it matters.

I do think that what we know about an artist can affect our enjoyment of their work. But no one hears Tears In Heaven and thinks it’s an anti-unlocked windows song, much less racist.
The takeaway here is that Van Morrison has now recruited Eric Clapton into a presumed anti-lockdown song, not whether the artists have done anything relevant to any of us in the past 40 years.
A lot of "hip" 70 year olds are tearing their few remaining hairs out over this.
"beautiful, with an exotic-yet-familiar facial structure and an arresting gaze."
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