The Swamp

Great player...pretty terrible front office member (organization way too loyal to him).

wlu_lax6 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:21 am Great player...pretty terrible front office member (organization way too loyal to him).

Can you expound on his front office tenure? I always viewed the Bullets/Wizards as a team that was in the range of fighting for a late seed, which puts them in the mediocre range. If that's bad, under the guise that it's better to completely bottom out than to tread water, I get it. But why was his tenure actively bad if that's not the case?

L-Jam3 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:01 am

wlu_lax6 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:21 am Great player...pretty terrible front office member (organization way too loyal to him).

Can you expound on his front office tenure? I always viewed the Bullets/Wizards as a team that was in the range of fighting for a late seed, which puts them in the mediocre range. If that's bad, under the guise that it's better to completely bottom out than to tread water, I get it. But why was his tenure actively bad if that's not the case?

Results show it, but there was always a feeling in this area that Abe P. (Owner) was super loyal because Wes was the face of the team for so long and key during the one championship, basically he came (and Monroe) and the Bullets got good. I mean phenomenal player. NBA dynamics being what they are you can't necessarily fault him by himself, but the franchise has never figured out how to improve.

Front Office Time
1980–81 1980–81 Eastern 7th Atlantic 4th 39 43 .476 23
1981–82 1981–82 Eastern 5th Atlantic 4th 43 39 .524 20 Won First Round (Nets) 2–0
Lost Conference Semifinals (Celtics) 4–1[13] Gene Shue (CoY)
Bob Ferry (EoY)
1982–83 1982–83 Eastern 7th Atlantic 5th 42 40 .512 23
1983–84 1983–84 Eastern 8th Atlantic 5th 35 47 .427 27 Lost First Round (Celtics) 3–1[14]
1984–85 1984–85 Eastern 6th Atlantic 4th 40 42 .488 23 Lost First Round (76ers) 3–1[15]
1985–86 1985–86 Eastern 6th Atlantic 4th 39 43 .476 28 Lost First Round (76ers) 3–2[16]
1986–87 1986–87 Eastern 6th Atlantic 3rd 42 40 .512 17 Lost First Round (Pistons) 3–0[17]
1987–88 1987–88 Eastern 7th Atlantic 2nd 38 44 .463 19 Lost First Round (Pistons) 3–2[18]

Coaching
Team Year G W L W–L% Finish PG PW PL PW–L% Result
Washington 1987–88 55 30 25 .545 2nd in Atlantic 5 2 3 .400 Lost in First Round
Washington 1988–89 82 40 42 .488 4th in Atlantic — — — — Missed playoffs
Washington 1989–90 82 31 51 .378 4th in Atlantic — — — — Missed playoffs
Washington 1990–91 82 30 52 .366 4th in Atlantic — — — — Missed playoffs
Washington 1991–92 82 25 57 .305 6th in Atlantic — — — — Missed playoffs
Washington 1992–93 82 22 60 .268 7th in Atlantic — — — — Missed playoffs
Washington 1993–94 82 24 58 .293 7th in Atlantic — — — — Missed playoffs


However the most impressive thing about Wes may be his school. Funded a private K-8 where his wife, daughter, and he worked.
https://carrollmagazine.com/wes-unseld- ... -to-class/

Yeah, they had some pretty talented teams... I can attest to being frustrated by the length of his involvement.

That said, he was a pretty beloved figure in the area for a very long time. Decent, if slightly underwhelming legacy.

Proven again, for about the hundredth time, that being a great player has nothing to do with being a great front-office man.

So I totally forgot that my parents were neighbors back in the 60s with Wes. Note my mom is 4'11" and the person in the second quote was maybe 5'3"

mom of wlu_lax6 wrote: So sorry to hear about the death of Wes Unseld. He was a remarkable man...I knew him from The Village of Purnell where he lived, as did we, in the late 1960's when he played for the Balimore Bullets. I have a strong memory of his very tall person in a "cabana set" bathing suir standing next to me at the swimming pool.
He bent in half to say hello, as I came up to his waist, and that he loved my bathing suit.

He was a gentleman and a gentle man. His career was great but his humanity was greater. May he rest in peace and may the work he did for others remain his memory.

Friends of the family wrote:I remember him asking Lee to help push his car out of the snow. He asked Lee to get behind the wheel. Needless to say, not a great fit. Those were good times.

I can't speak to his coaching bona fides, but unrestricted free agency did not begin in the NBA until 1988. The only way you could improve was draft or trades and their record meant they weren't getting great draft position.

Looking at the Bullets' transactions for the years he was in the front office, probably the worst thing they did was trade Melvin Turpin after taking him at #6 overall when they could have just drafted someone else (John Stockton, Alvin Robertson, Otis Thorpe, Kevin Willis, Jerome Kersey went later). Otherwise, they traded away Rick Mahorn and let Michael Adams walk after his second year in the league.

They drafted Jeff Malone at #10 in 1984 and the only guys who played more minutes than him taken later in that draft were Derek Harper and Clyde Drexler. They should have picked Karl Malone the next year, who went one slot after their pick. But, you could do that exercise for every NBA team.

Yeah, Drugs*, it's really what happened into the 90s that tarnished his legacy a bit. And it wasn't really his fault on a lot of levels. He had a decent amount of talent in the stable, but key guys would get hurt. Calbert Chaney and Rex Chapman were injured at key times during that iteration. Then Chris Webber joins up with Juwan (well, not in that order, but still...) and CWebb is constantly getting shoulder shit and out for long stretches a number of the seasons he was here.

So there was just a sense around town that the team wasn't fully reaching potential, but that's not totally fair.

(I had to look at the seasons today to remind myself of this stuff.)

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:38 pm Yeah, Drugs*, it's really what happened into the 90s that tarnished his legacy a bit. And it wasn't really his fault on a lot of levels. He had a decent amount of talent in the stable, but key guys would get hurt. Calbert Chaney and Rex Chapman were injured at key times during that iteration. Then Chris Webber joins up with Juwan (well, not in that order, but still...) and CWebb is constantly getting shoulder shit and out for long stretches a number of the seasons he was here.

So there was just a sense around town that the team wasn't fully reaching potential, but that's not totally fair.

(I had to look at the seasons today to remind myself of this stuff.)

The handle origin story was a hit, I see.

I get that the team floundered when he was their coach. Unseld taking over midseason really righted their ship in 1987-88, getting them to the playoffs after canning Kevin Loughery when they were 8-19. They made the playoffs at 38-44, but still played at a .545 clip under Unseld (45 wins over a full season, which would have gotten a five-seed that season). Moses Malone left as a free agent, but he was 32, and they missed the playoffs by two games in 1989. They had a prime Jeff Malone and an aging Bernard King for a couple years, but they never could fill any holes behind them. Harvey Grant had a few strong seasons and they got a couple good years from Pervis Ellison, but a couple draft misses just killed them (Tom Hammonds in '89, no first in '90, traded #8 overall in '91 to bring back Michael Adams along with #19 - LaBradford Smith!).

Sometimes, the rabbit holes are fun.

sancarlos wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:11 pm Proven again, for about the hundredth time, that being a great player has nothing to do with being a great front-office man.

Isiah Thomas has entered the chat room

DaveInSeattle wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:48 pm

sancarlos wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:11 pm Proven again, for about the hundredth time, that being a great player has nothing to do with being a great front-office man.

Isiah Thomas has entered the chat room

And... (off the top of my head), Michael Jordan, John Elway, Wayne Gretzky, Luc Robitaille, Mike Singletary, Matt Millen, Jeff Fisher, Phil Esposito, Elgin Baylor, Derek Jeter...

Listing the above makes Ozzie Newsome’s success as the Ravens’ GM all the more remarkable.

It was pretty cool how the Belichick Cleveland thing showed that Ozzie started low and worked his way up instead of just being installed at the top like a lot of those guys.

sancarlos wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 7:12 pm

DaveInSeattle wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:48 pm

sancarlos wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:11 pm Proven again, for about the hundredth time, that being a great player has nothing to do with being a great front-office man.

Isiah Thomas has entered the chat room

And... (off the top of my head), Michael Jordan, John Elway, Wayne Gretzky, Luc Robitaille, Mike Singletary, Matt Millen, Jeff Fisher, Phil Esposito, Elgin Baylor, Derek Jeter...

Ozzie Newsome, Larry Bird, Jerry West, Danny Ainge, Joe Dumars, Doug Wilson (!), Joe Sakic, Steve Yzerman, Bob Watson...

Brian Cashman set a school record for hits as a D3 2B.

I think the issue with former players is that owners can get sentimental and hold on too long when something clearly isn't working. Or there's a perceived public relations bonus that an owner will feel like mediocrity is OK because it's a wash from a butts in seats perspective.

Unseld is likely the best High School player in Kentucky history.

A_B wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:32 am Unseld is likely the best High School player in Kentucky history.

I would have guessed Darrell Griffith.

A_B wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:32 am Unseld is likely the best High School player in Kentucky history.

I would have guessed Darrell Griffith.

1. Rex Chapman
2. Felton Spencer
3. Dirk Minnifield
4. Mel Turpin
5. Dan Langhi

I don't care how many times you guess, Unseld was a total stud and had a better career after high school than Griffith.

To wit: Adolph Rupp tried to recruit him to break the color barrier in the SEC. That good.

When a guy named "Adolph" is singing a black man's praises, you just have to listen.

A_B wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:46 am I don't care how many times you guess, Unseld was a total stud and had a better career after high school than Griffith.

To wit: Adolph Rupp tried to recruit him to break the color barrier in the SEC. That good.

Heh. Of course, I'll defer to your judgement on who was the best Kentucky high school player.

Not sure what the better career after high school has to do with it.

courier-journal wrote:Unseld’s own decision was complicated by cultural change and segregationist sympathies. As the first African American athlete to be recruited by the University of Kentucky, Unseld was targeted for abuse. According to retired Judge Janice Martin, Unseld’s sister-in-law, a spectator attempted to stab the player at an all-star game.

“The UK fans had heard that he was the chosen one and he would be the first,” Martin said. “He was showered with boos to deter him from coming.

“Wes never talked about that publicly, but there were chickens (left) in his mailbox. He had to have security part of his senior year because of the death threats.”

Martin said Unseld’s mother asked UK coach Adolph Rupp if he could ensure her son’s safety.

“And he told her, ‘No,’” Martin recalled. “Now what kind of recruiting pitch is that?”

As mentally tough as he was physically imposing, Unseld enrolled at U of L in 1964, “and never once appeared to be a freshman,” said former U of L teammate Wade Houston. Ineligible to play for the varsity, Unseld averaged 35.8 points and 23.6 rebounds for the Cardinals’ freshman team.

His varsity averages of 20.6 points and 18.9 rebounds are still U of L school records, as is the 45 points he scored as a senior against Georgetown College.

found a review of his high school days off the article I quoted above
https://www.courier-journal.com/story/s ... 124468001/