The Swamp

Spinoff from the McDavid / Bapo discussion because its fun. Players from your lifetime that at one point could have reasonably projected as the best ever at their position or sport.

My first thought is Ken Griffey Jr.

Do you mean guys who didn't pan out for whatever reason?

First one comes to mind is Eric Lindros.

Dwight Gooden

Bo Jackson

Barry Sanders

Pruitt wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:55 pm Do you mean guys who didn't pan out for whatever reason?

First one comes to mind is Eric Lindros.

Dwight Gooden

Bo Jackson

In this light...Travis Roy

Pruitt wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:55 pm Do you mean guys who didn't pan out for whatever reason?

First one comes to mind is Eric Lindros.

Dwight Gooden

Bo Jackson

I would say that with a few possible exceptions (like NHL/Gretzky) the best players of the last 20 years in any given sport have a strong argument for being the best ever, period. So squandered potential/injury what-ifs might be the more interesting hypothetical. Josh Gordon, Todd Gurley and Andrew Luck come to mind for NFL; Josh Hamilton, Lincecum and Jose Fernandez for MLB; not sure anyone really fits that bill for NBA — Brandon Roy was really good but not on the all-time legend trajectory.

Nomar

wlu_lax6 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:05 pm

Pruitt wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:55 pm Do you mean guys who didn't pan out for whatever reason?

First one comes to mind is Eric Lindros.

Dwight Gooden

Bo Jackson

In this light...Travis Roy

I was thinking that but didn't trust my BU-biased hockey memories

Joe K wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:05 pm

Pruitt wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:55 pm Do you mean guys who didn't pan out for whatever reason?

First one comes to mind is Eric Lindros.

Dwight Gooden

Bo Jackson

I would say that with a few possible exceptions (like NHL/Gretzky) the best players of the last 20 years in any given sport have a strong argument for being the best ever, period. So squandered potential/injury what-ifs might be the more interesting hypothetical. Josh Gordon, Todd Gurley and Andrew Luck come to mind for NFL; Josh Hamilton, Lincecum and Jose Fernandez for MLB; not sure anyone really fits that bill for NBA — Brandon Roy was really good but not on the all-time legend trajectory.

A Len Bias game was on ESPN last night. Now I'm getting depressed.

EdRomero wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:11 pm

Joe K wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:05 pm

Pruitt wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:55 pm Do you mean guys who didn't pan out for whatever reason?

First one comes to mind is Eric Lindros.

Dwight Gooden

Bo Jackson

I would say that with a few possible exceptions (like NHL/Gretzky) the best players of the last 20 years in any given sport have a strong argument for being the best ever, period. So squandered potential/injury what-ifs might be the more interesting hypothetical. Josh Gordon, Todd Gurley and Andrew Luck come to mind for NFL; Josh Hamilton, Lincecum and Jose Fernandez for MLB; not sure anyone really fits that bill for NBA — Brandon Roy was really good but not on the all-time legend trajectory.

A Len Bias game was on ESPN last night. Now I'm getting depressed.

I was pretty young when Len Bias died. I really had never watched a full game. So I turned it on last night. Man UNC should have won that one. If UNC could get the ball to Matt D., nobody was stopping him. Also Wolf was having a great game. But wow was Bias good that night. The under rim reverse was a killer. Also watching Lefty coach/work the refs was fun.

Right now the focus of this thread are injuries and tragedies, but what about players who ended up with the wrong team or coach..or players who played in the wrong era for their skill set?

Jermaine O'Neal sat on the bench for his first 5 years, Antoine Walker was completely messed up by Pitino..They would never be the best ever but their careers could have been so much better.

I remember the Gretzky hype from the time he was in junior hockey.

Similarly, Lemieux, Lafontaine and Lindros were hyped to the skies before the ever hit the NHL. (I am old...)

He wouldn't have been the 'best ever', but its a damn shame that Brandon Roy's knees disintegrated on him.

A twist on this would be athletes who came up with the pressure of being recognized as a "could be the best..." and with little argument met expectations.

LeBron
Crosby
Tiger

Maybe P. Manning?

Is there a baseball player who came into the majors with at that level and is now a consensus top 10 (at minimum) all-time great?

rass wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:25 pm Is there a baseball player who came into the majors with at that level and is now a consensus top 10 (at minimum) all-time great?

Griffey Jr. probably closest in our lifetimes.

rass wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:25 pm A twist on this would be athletes who came up with the pressure of being recognized as a "could be the best..." and with little argument met expectations.

LeBron
Crosby
Tiger

Maybe P. Manning?

Is there a baseball player who came into the majors with at that level and is now a consensus top 10 (at minimum) all-time great?

Mike Trout

I remember the 2004 SI Olympic preview predicted that a then-20 year old Michael Phelps was going to go for 8 golds. His first event, or maybe two, he "only" earned bronze... and then he ripped off 6 straight golds.

brian wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:26 pm

rass wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:25 pm Is there a baseball player who came into the majors with at that level and is now a consensus top 10 (at minimum) all-time great?

Griffey Jr. probably closest in our lifetimes.

Definitely the most hyped prospect of ours but fell short on injuries (and probably overall anyway). Baseball-wise, Gooden immediately came to my mind too given his first two seasons. Bonds probably is the greatest hitter but his career arc is so weird it feels like he's an outlier. Trout is just fucking insane, he's already 39th all-time for fangraphs oWAR and his per PA rate is actually higher than Bonds. If he "only" doubles up from here, he's 5th all-time offensive player and two ahead of him are from the pre-Jackie era.

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:43 pm

brian wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:26 pm

rass wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:25 pm Is there a baseball player who came into the majors with at that level and is now a consensus top 10 (at minimum) all-time great?

Griffey Jr. probably closest in our lifetimes.

Definitely the most hyped prospect of ours but fell short on injuries (and probably overall anyway). Baseball-wise, Gooden immediately came to my mind too given his first two seasons. Bonds probably is the greatest hitter but his career arc is so weird it feels like he's an outlier. Trout is just fucking insane, he's already 39th all-time for fangraphs oWAR and his per PA rate is actually higher than Bonds. If he "only" doubles up from here, he's 5th all-time offensive player and two ahead of him are from the pre-Jackie era.

The hype when Barry Bonds first came up was really intense.

Earl Campbell

Diamond wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:49 pmThe hype when Barry Bonds first came up was really intense.

Was it? Those would have been my earliest baseball years but I thought he was a legit top prospect and all, but he didn't go #1 and that was as a college player.

Giff wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:50 pmEarl Campbell

Yeah - but in my mind, he's definitely one of the top 5 RBs ever. Never been anyone quite like him.

Jim Thorpe?
Dan O'Brien?
Roy Jones (Olympic boxer)

Sugar Ray Leonard

Eric Lindros was the first name to come to mind. Mario Lemeiux couldn't been the greatest if it wasn't for injuries and cancer.

Freddy Adu was way over hyped, but in reality, he was just early to develop physically, so his talents leveled out.

What about Brien Taylor? I grew up around Yankee fans, and he was supposed to be the greatest pitcher of all time!

The Sybian wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:39 pmWhat about Brien Taylor? I grew up around Yankee fans, and he was supposed to be the greatest pitcher of all time!

He was 1-1, but if you look at his (very underage) AA season before the injury, its not like he was setting records.

(The Yankees having like a dozen hitters and a reliever better than their greatest all-time starting pitcher is pretty weird, even given the short porch.)

The Sybian wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:39 pm Freddy Adu was way over hyped, but in reality, he was just early to develop physically, so his talents leveled out.

For soccer, John O'Brien was going places and then just disappeared.

Does Tiger count. Without his injury and personal problems he was chasing Jack

He's not the winningest, but I thought he was recognized as the greatest golfer of all-time, no?

Guys, just give him a couple of years to make it official.

Yeah, at worst, Tiger is #2. That's pretty incredible, given his hype.

I watched part of that Len Bias game. Around these parts, it's just known as The Len Bias Game, because that Carolina team was so good and he was so great in that game. My three observations from that game:
1. Bias was really fucking good. He was a no-doubt NBA All-Star level player at worst.
2. That Carolina team was really good and fun to watch.
3. Kenny Smith was fast as hell. His nickname, "The Jet," was well-earned. If he hadn't gotten hurt late in the year, that team was an overwhelming favorite to win a title.

wlu_lax6 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:26 pm Jim Thorpe?
Dan O'Brien?
Roy Jones (Olympic boxer)

Yeah, we all remember sitting around watching Jim Thorpe play

Its wlu_lax, he probably meant Jim Thome.

Fair but not sure some of us can say they really watched Earl C and Len Bias.

How about Gregg Olson. He was a nightmare for batters until he trashed his arm.

I think I'm about the average age here and I definitely watched both. Earl is probably the first athlete I knew by name and I was gutted by Len Bias dying. It's why I've never tried coke!

Giff wrote: ↑Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:16 am I think I'm about the average age here and I definitely watched both. Earl is probably the first athlete I knew by name and I was gutted by Len Bias dying. It's why I've never tried coke!

Me too re: coke.

I was also very broke through college and didn't run with a crowd where it was "a thing."

But I could've tried it if I really wanted to, pretty easy to find round here.

A guy who was really, really good but who wouldn't be in the conversation for "best ever" but whose career was cut short was Billy Sims.

I've only been around it a small handful of times and it's made me very uncomfortable.

Giff wrote: ↑Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:30 am I've only been around it a small handful of times and it's made me very uncomfortable.

The first time I saw a casual friend do coke in front of me he decided a bit later in the evening that it was a good idea to blast me with a fire extinguisher from close range. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for the drug.

For me the closest example has to be Mark Prior.

Or, perhaps "Mark Prior and Kerry Wood could be the best starting duo ever."

Giff wrote: ↑Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:30 am I've only been around it a small handful of times and it's made me very uncomfortable.

Completely agree, but you do a line and get over. IMO, you aren't missing much. I can see how people get hooked, but just not for me.