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degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:42 am

I know baseball happens in an instant but there are four mistakes on that play.

1 and 2. Why is Taylor in such a hurry? There is absolutely no way he can get Kiermaier at the plate. So why is he throwing home? Just get it back in, tied game.

3. Smith doesn't notice that Arozarena has fallen and goes for the swipe tag to nobody.

4. Jansen doesn't back up the play at home.

EnochRoot · Post by **EnochRoot** » Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:19 am

Smoltz thought it was Mookie Betts who made that mistake in CF.

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:23 am

Someone on Cubs twitter brought this up - it seems like we need a term for a come from behind walkoff play, or at least something better than “a come from behind walkoff play.”

I was thinking a Sid Bream or a Griffey, but maybe those should be reserved for series-flipping walkoffs.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:15 pm

Yes and not just walk off from a tied game, we need a term for a play that turned a deficit into a win.

L-Jam3 · Post by **L-Jam3** » Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:26 pm

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:23 am Someone on Cubs twitter brought this up - it seems like we need a term for a come from behind walkoff play, or at least something better than “a come from behind walkoff play.”

I was thinking a Sid Bream or a Griffey, but maybe those should be reserved for series-flipping walkoffs.

How about a Gibson? It was only Game 1, although it functionally swung the Series.

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:33 pm

L-Jam3 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:26 pm
Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:23 am Someone on Cubs twitter brought this up - it seems like we need a term for a come from behind walkoff play, or at least something better than “a come from behind walkoff play.”

I was thinking a Sid Bream or a Griffey, but maybe those should be reserved for series-flipping walkoffs.
How about a Gibson? It was only Game 1, although it functionally swung the Series.

Ooh, yes. I like that.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:40 pm

Snell pretty nasty tonight.

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:25 pm

Modern baseball is dumb.

EdRomero · Post by **EdRomero** » Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:26 pm

Reverse Grady Little.

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:32 pm

Just, fuck off with this shit, Rays.

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:38 pm

Twins should have pulled Morris in 1991 in the 6th. Clearly.

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:43 pm

EdRomero wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:26 pm Reverse Grady Little.

Cash will never live this down. He shouldn't.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:51 pm

Yeah I’m not in for that. Oof.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:00 pm

Also, bengal might get flagged as a Twitter bot soon.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:05 pm

Madison bumgarner would have charged Kevin cash.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:14 pm

This is reverse-Pedro and I still think both were right. In 2003, the best possible arm to face Posada was Pedro; Embree was “a lefty” and his stuff moved away and Timlin was an arrogant dick who got ground balls. Pedro then is elite, just like he would be now. Nick Anderson would, very literally, be the dirtiest reliever of 2003. Timlin wouldn’t be a major leaguer. Hitters are more used to insane velo now, for sure, but stuff is outpacing hitting. After two turns, there’s no bad analysis behind changing it completely up versus giving one more look at the same guy.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:15 pm

And just to be clear, this is great. Fuck Tampa and I hope Mookie wins every series the Yankees don’t for the next decade. But Cash wasn’t wrong, this is just people loving the narrative over the analytics.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:18 pm

Ha. Ha. Haaaaaaa.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:23 pm

mister d wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:15 pm And just to be clear, this is great. Fuck Tampa and I hope Mookie wins every series the Yankees don’t for the next decade. But Cash wasn’t wrong, this is just people loving the narrative over the analytics.

Mookie ten Yankees zero. I can handle it.

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:24 pm

A_B wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:51 pm Yeah I’m not in for that. Oof.

I'm not saying he should be murdered, but this is never ever leaving him. It will be the think that everyone thinks of about him going forward.

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:25 pm

HE WAS ALL THE WAY FUCKING WRONG

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:25 pm

tennbengal wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:24 pm
A_B wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:51 pm Yeah I’m not in for that. Oof.
I'm not saying he should be murdered, but this is never ever leaving him. It will be the think that everyone thinks of about him going forward.

Sorry. I posted while other things were posted in the interim. I think they should have left snell in.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:27 pm

Bumgarner pitching five innings in relief on Short rest was against analytics. Joe Morgan wasn’t always right, but he wasn’t always wrong.

Analytics make decisions. But sometimes players make plays. And I like analytics!

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:30 pm

But the reason anyone remembers that or Jack Fucking Morris is because it was the exception. The manager held AND the pitcher didn’t give it up. One batter too long against the math is worse than one batter too soon on what got you into the World Series as a zero payroll team.

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:31 pm

On the other hand, thanks to Kevin Cash for taking my mind off the looming election horror for a few precious minutes. Grateful.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:33 pm

Same same same.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:33 pm

mister d wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:30 pm But the reason anyone remembers that or Jack Fucking Morris is because it was the exception. The manager held AND the pitcher didn’t give it up. One batter too long against the math is worse than one batter too soon on what got you into the World Series as a zero payroll team.

That’s a decent point for sure. But he was their one guy who probably earned the right to stay in. I don’t know his pull percentage during cy young year but he was best pitcher in league and no idea how much getting pulled early factored in.

Eta: looks like he averaged right at six innings that year. So I guess this wasn’t far from on the nose.

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:36 pm

Blake Snell had earned the right to stay in.

Like Bauer did for the Reds this year. Etc.

In big spots, leaning on your staff ace isn't exactly re-inventing the wheel in the playoffs.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:37 pm

tennbengal wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:36 pm Blake Snell had earned the right to stay in.

Like Bauer did for the Reds this year. Etc.

In big spots, leaning on your staff ace isn't exactly re-inventing the wheel in the playoffs.

Also, like Bauer his team couldn’t score!

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:38 pm

I’m not “in the Rays front office”, but I feel pretty sure the move was impassionate. There’s no “Snell has it tonight” when the numbers say Snell or an SP of his profile can’t have it on the third turn.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:39 pm

If they get this third out first cutaway is to kershaw

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:39 pm

I was wrong

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:41 pm

mister d wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:38 pm I’m not “in the Rays front office”, but I feel pretty sure the move was impassionate. There’s no “Snell has it tonight” when the numbers say Snell or an SP of his profile can’t have it on the third turn.

I am pretty confident in throw-that-ish-out-the-window when it is Game 6 of the World Series and you are the staff ace with a track record of excellence and a 1-0 lead in the 6th of a must win game.

Especially when said pitcher only had to throw 1/3+ of a normal season's innings. No wear and tear issues. Etc.

Let adrenaline do its thing. For at least one more batter.

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:43 pm

Betts with the "i have no idea why don't ask me any questions" answer to what did you think when Snell was lifted...lol.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:43 pm

mister d wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:38 pm I’m not “in the Rays front office”, but I feel pretty sure the move was impassionate. There’s no “Snell has it tonight” when the numbers say Snell or an SP of his profile can’t have it on the third turn.

Baseball's become impassionate. Maybe not the distance but Snell should at least get past Seager again.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:47 pm

Snell hadn’t gone six in (check Twitter, over a year I think). His playoff numbers were better than regular season. He was either going to shut them out until Game 7 because tonight was special or he was going to go one batter too far. Cant prove a negative but also cant prove that negative?

EnochRoot · Post by **EnochRoot** » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:48 pm

mister d wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:38 pm I’m not “in the Rays front office”, but I feel pretty sure the move was impassionate. There’s no “Snell has it tonight” when the numbers say Snell or an SP of his profile can’t have it on the third turn.

I have no idea what you’re saying here. Dispassionate? You’re saying that it was a completely rational move, devoid of the moment? I agree. But that doesn’t make it the right move.

Snell was pitching the game of his life in the game of his life, and had K’d Betts the two previous time he had come to the plate.

The new math says to pull the pitcher because you’ve got a collection of BP arms that you know you can rely on. But the problem with that scenario is you know Snell is dealing, and you have no guarantee the next man out of the pen will have his best stuff. It also gives Betts a breath of fresh air which he clearly took advantage of as the game wore on.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:51 pm

I think mister d is saying that they had planned for Snell to pitch to 18 batters at most, period.

cerrano · Post by **cerrano** » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:56 pm

Turner pulled for a positive covid test. Yikes.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:56 pm

Wow. Turner got a positive result mid game and had to leave. Holy hell I was wondering why he was out because it want like he was a defensive liability.

I feel bad he will miss the celebration.