The Swamp

EdRomero wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:18 pm I'm worried about the Celtics "big men" containing Toronto's big men.

Also, how much better would Embiid be playing for Popavich or another competent coach? Now he just looks like a waste of out of shape talent.

Embiid averaged 30 and 12 for the series with a PER of 26.1. No other Sixer averaged even 17 ppg or had a PER of 15 (which is considered average). Maybe he looked “out of shape” because it’s hard to be the only player on your team capable of creating offense, all while facing regular double-teams. But yeah, they’re definitely going to fire Brett Brown.

Didn't his numbers get worse in the second half of every game? I don't think that's all due to coaching and his teammates getting worse as the game goes on.

So the Celtics have advanced in the first round, while Romero's 1st round status remains up in the air: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3435&start=440

Re: Embiid - Does +/- mean anything in the NBA? Obviously the NHL version sucks, but in a higher volume sport does that wipe out any matchup or QoC concerns?

mister d wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:00 pm So the Celtics have advanced in the first round, while Romero's 1st round status remains up in the air: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3435&start=440

Wasn't there a thread about what thread people should use if they wanted to write stuff about you without you knowing. Guess that would be the thread for me. I'll look into it.

mister d wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:08 pm Re: Embiid - Does +/- mean anything in the NBA? Obviously the NHL version sucks, but in a higher volume sport does that wipe out any matchup or QoC concerns?

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Raw plus-minus is too reliant on teammates/matchups to mean much. But real-plus minus (RPM), which uses regression analyses to adjust for teammates/opponents has value. However, even RPM can be fluky over single seasons and would be completely meaningless for a 4 game series.

With respect to Embiid in this series, what I saw was him working his ass off in the first halves of games to keep it close, while getting little help. Then in the second half, Stevens made adjustments, Brown didn’t, and things got harder. And it’s crazy to blame Embiid when Harris had a brutal series, Richardson was mediocre at best, and Horford was invisible. Also, beyond the raw stats, here’s another data point. The league average for true shooting % (which factors in 3s and FTs) was 56.5% this season. In the Boston series, Embiid was at 60.0% on very high volume; Milton at 61.6% on pretty low volume; and everyone else on the roster was below 52.5%.

So you're saying he makes his teammates worse. Got it.

mister d wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:38 pm So you're saying he makes his teammates worse. Got it.

I know you’re just joking but JJ Redick interviewed Embiid on his podcast a few weeks ago and Redick said that Embiid was by far the best big man he’s ever played with at working with him on a 2-man game. (Redick has also played with Dwight Howard, Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan, so that’s not meaningless praise.) Embiid was really good at screening for Redick and JJ in turn knew when to feed him the ball if the defenders over-committed to guard the shooter. But with Simmons out, Philly’s guards just weren’t nearly skilled or sophisticated enough offensively. Milton is a good spot up shooter but he’s not a shot creator. And in an ideal situation, Richardson would be strictly a 3-and-D guy without any playmaking responsibilities.

This snippet from an article by Kevin Pelton today, after Brett Brown’s firing was announced, shows that the Horford signing is an all-time bad move:

Ultimately, much of the 76ers' disappointing season can be traced to Horford's poor fit at power forward next to Embiid and with Simmons. When all three players shared the court, Philadelphia was outscored and posted an offensive rating in just the third (of 100) percentile of all qualifying lineups league-wide (minimum 15 possessions), per Cleaning the Glass data. With Horford off the court, the Sixers' offensive rating with both Embiid and Simmons improved all the way to the 89th percentile.

Though Horford-Embiid frontcourts were quite good defensively overall, the Celtics exposed the challenges of asking Horford to defend a smaller, quicker power forward during the playoff series. According to analysis of lineup data from NBA Advanced Stats, Boston posted an unthinkable 129.2 offensive rating with Horford at the 4.

The defensive numbers from the Boston series are a small sample size against a good team but that offensive stat is a ridiculous on/off disparity.

They should hire Jay Wright so Jay Wright is no longer at Villanova.

For all the hoop heads here - this was exemplary writing and analysis:

Behind the scenes of the Suns drafting Ayton over Luka.

Meddling owners are great.

Players really getting together to boycott rest of the playoffs??

This time you should read the replies

EdRomero wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:08 am This time you should read the replies

This is my favorite one:

This certainly feels historic.

Um. Wow.

Wow. Back in July, there was always a risk of restarting but nobody ever thought this would be the reason for future postponements. I can't see the remaining games today proceeding.

Just wait until college athletes who aren't even getting paid realize how easy it is to boycott to protest social injustice (or you know, not getting paid)

The HotTake factory is shifting into overdrive as we speak...

So what do you guys think of the boycott? I think it should have been done before going into the bubble after George Floyd and Breonna Taylor.

To do it this way without goals comes across as disorganized. And it really hurts the NBA, who have not silenced anyone.

degenerasian wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:23 pm So what do you guys think of the boycott? I think it should have been done before going into the bubble after George Floyd and Breonna Taylor.

To do it this way without goals comes across as disorganized. And it really hurts the NBA, who have not silenced anyone.

This is getting way more attention with this timing than it would have if they just delayed starting the bubble. Walking off the court before a playoff game is so powerful.

degenerasian wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:23 pm So what do you guys think of the boycott? I think it should have been done before going into the bubble after George Floyd and Breonna Taylor.

To do it this way without goals comes across as disorganized. And it really hurts the NBA, who have not silenced anyone.

Also, it's not exactly they're doing it randomly. Another unarmed Black man was shot (seven times!) by the cops and then two more Black men killed by a white supremacist vigilante.

brian wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:52 pm Just wait until college athletes who aren't even getting paid realize how easy it is to boycott to protest social injustice (or you know, not getting paid)

Mizzou footballers were ahead of their time.

degenerasian wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:23 pm So what do you guys think of the boycott? I think it should have been done before going into the bubble after George Floyd and Breonna Taylor.

To do it this way without goals comes across as disorganized. And it really hurts the NBA, who have not silenced anyone.

STRONG DISAGREE

tennbengal wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:41 pm

degenerasian wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:23 pm So what do you guys think of the boycott? I think it should have been done before going into the bubble after George Floyd and Breonna Taylor.

To do it this way without goals comes across as disorganized. And it really hurts the NBA, who have not silenced anyone.

STRONG DISAGREE

Yeppers, this is the best time to do it, just wish the other sports would join in..

This isn’t an “either or” situation with respect to boycotting before or during the bubble. Many NBA players and coaches were out on the streets protesting after the Floyd killing. As just one example, Jaylen Brown and Malcolm Brogdon helped organize a protest in Atlanta, where they’re both from. And the desire to continue that involvement is one of the reasons why a lot of players had serious reservations about going into the bubble to begin with. (Obviously, separation from family for weeks or months was the other big factor.)

A material part of the agreed-upon deal to get the players to buy in to resuming was that the league would prominently display social justice messaging. That’s why all the courts say Black Lives Matter and why players have messages on their jerseys. Essentially, the pitch by the league to the players was “you can do the most good by returning to play and using your platform (i.e., televised games) to promote justice.” Seeing what happened in Kenosha has led many players to question the terms of that deal and whether their messaging is doing enough. That’s why they took things to the next level and essentially organized a league-wide strike. That it was started by the Bucks, the league’s best team and one that plays just miles from Kenosha, only makes the action more significant.

Totally support the players. I just feel that they were doing good by playing and spreading the message. Short term this is big news, long term I dont know.

Adam Silver's in a tough spot.

This is a much better protest than wearing a shirt or kneeling. But you really have to be all in, and that means not playing tomorrow and perhaps not playing ever again.

I still say the best protest is to vote for change on November 3rd..

psunate77 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:52 pm I still say the best protest is to vote for change on November 3rd..

Rex wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:30 pm This is a much better protest than wearing a shirt or kneeling. But you really have to be all in, and that means not playing tomorrow and perhaps not playing ever again.

Agreed.

I am very interested in seeing how many NFL teams practice tomorrow.

degenerasian wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:25 pm Totally support the players. I just feel that they were doing good by playing and spreading the message. Short term this is big news, long term I dont know.

Adam Silver's in a tough spot.

There’s a giant natural disaster about to hit and 48 states will barely care. 75% of the country gave up on a pandemic after 3 weeks. Fuck the message. Fuck the news. Do what you feel is right.

brian wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:52 pm Just wait until college athletes who aren't even getting paid realize how easy it is to boycott to protest social injustice (or you know, not getting paid)

Mizzou's football team did this in 2015!

Brontoburglar wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:42 pm

brian wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:52 pm Just wait until college athletes who aren't even getting paid realize how easy it is to boycott to protest social injustice (or you know, not getting paid)

Mizzou's football team did this in 2015!

L-jam posted this in 2020

EdRomero wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:44 pm

Brontoburglar wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:42 pm

brian wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:52 pm Just wait until college athletes who aren't even getting paid realize how easy it is to boycott to protest social injustice (or you know, not getting paid)

Mizzou's football team did this in 2015!

L-jam posted this in 2020

dammit!

Rex wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:30 pm This is a much better protest than wearing a shirt or kneeling. But you really have to be all in, and that means not playing tomorrow and perhaps not playing ever again.

It's a bold move and yes the players have to prepare to never play again. I've watched a lot of coverage today and one thing I've heard over and over again is, "Today there are bigger issues than basketball, basketball is just not important today." While this is may be more true today, basketball, and sports in general, is not that important in the grand scheme of things. Sports is just an escape. Millionaires playing a game. If you polled any random 100 people, maybe 20 are into sports?

I hear this is to put pressure on owners and executives. What would happen if billionaires owners walked away and the NBA folded? Would America care? I get the players are really upset but there's a players meeting going on right now and there's probably a split between boycotting for a few days and going home for good. I think if the players leave the bubble and the season is cancelled, the league probably folds. I can't think of a condition to return that would work.