2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

[DSafetyGuy]

They've shown so much of the impressive depths of both their collective incompetence and deceit for so long, I don't know how you could definitively say it's truthful or intentional.

If you wanted to say it's a really big swing to distract from everything of the last few days (Trump's taxes and debts, Parscale arrest, Melania recorded phone call, Kimberly Guilfoyle sexual harassment, the not condoning white supremacists/call out to the Proud Boys at the debate, and on and on), I can see that (not an attempt to get sympathy).

If you wanted to say they are absolute morons who got what was coming to them and the timing was pure coincidence, I can see that.

"Flood the zone with shit." - Steve Bannon

[brian]

I don't think Meadows would admit to Trump having mild symptoms if it was a scam. The Trumpian way to do it would be to say he's asymptomatic and therefore COVID is no big deal.

(I also assume "mild symptoms" means that Trump can barely breathe.)

[mister d]

Nah, mild symptoms would prove having non-asymptomatic (symptomatic?) is still not a big deal.

[Ryan]

I could also hear him say something like "Look at us, we get tested every day, we're surrounded by the finest medical people, we take all the precautions in the world and we still get it and live so what's the point in shutting everything down"

[Ryan]

(Also, it can be a campaign positive in the same way lots of other things have been. Low expectations, lucky outcomes, a media that plays along, and weird purple state undecided morons that will have a triumphantly healthy president as their most recent data point before hitting the polls)

If he gets really sick or others around him take the literal fall, even I think that's bad for the Trumpster.

[brian]

[psunate77]

How do you know if someone is “privately” angry??

[mister d]

God this is perfect.

[DaveInSeattle]

(I also assume "mild symptoms" means that Trump can barely breathe.)

My GF on Tuesday night kept saying 'Wow...he looks terrible. I mean beyond how terrible he normally looks'

[degenerasian]

I mean, that exchange just happened. I know we are a gaslit nation but...how does this help him?

200.000 people are dead. Because of him. Isn’t this a massive reminder of that?

Yes, TB, you are correct.

Some people on this board, quite frankly, have lost their fucking minds.

I just can't process how this is a GOOD thing for him in terms of the campaign. No matter the spin.

Only thing I can think of is those that were scared about Covid and we’re economically impacted by Covid are reassured that it is just the flu and blame democrats for over reacting and choose to vote for Trump. We live in a reflectionist society (woulda coulda shouda) and those who have been hurt by being laid off, might, MIGHT, think back and say, I got let go for this? My life and family were turned upside down for this? It didn't even kill fucking obese, fast food eating Trump.

[tennbengal]

I just can't process how this is a GOOD thing for him in terms of the campaign. No matter the spin.

Possible positives:
- Two week timeout when things are swirling around him
- Centrist sympathy
- Backlash against lack of sympathy (don't underrate this one)
- Mild case = Big strong man triumphantly defeats virus he told you wasn't a big deal anyway

But clock is almost out. He's 10 points down nationally, give or take, and the individual state polls must be dire as fuck if they are pouring money into the Kansas Senate race (which they are) not to mention the SC Senate race.

So 14 days from now leaves two weeks before the election. What in the world do you think swings say 5 points (to get it into cheating range) from that above list? People are going to vote for him in the millions now who were not going to because he and his team caught the thing they've spent 7 months denying or minimizing that has killed 200,000+ people and counting? It doesn't track.

[Nonlinear FC]

The President getting COVID? Sure, been waiting for that news for a while. Not a hoax.

The First Lady? Don’t you need actual interaction with an infected person?

As someone tweeted, "Both the woman the president sleeps with and his wife have tested positive for COVID."

Is there a better outcome than it being legit, him passing, and people being asked, "since he's been telling you COVID is fake all this time, what else do you think he may have been lying about?" and having reasonable responses?

I'll go sober up now.

Everyone already knows all this and don't care. As you guys have said before, intelligent people who are pro-life, do they care that Trump lies about everything or cheat on his taxes? To the republicans, he's just a puppet to pass their policies. Without him, they'd be in opposition forever.

Just need to say this, for the record, because a few of you guys are so doom and gloom about just about every piece of news:

There are a TON of moderate republicans and independent/centrist voters that don't give a fuck about abortion. Single issue (gun/abortion) voters fall right in line with the existing hard core 30 percent cult followers. It's already baked in.

To the vast majority of Americans, Trump getting COVID is at a minimum a validation that he doesn't and hasn't taken this seriously because he's a fucking moron AND cares more about the economy than protecting citizens.

All this hand wringing about showing sympathy is pure bullshit cooked up on Twitter.

[degenerasian]

The President getting COVID? Sure, been waiting for that news for a while. Not a hoax.

The First Lady? Don’t you need actual interaction with an infected person?

As someone tweeted, "Both the woman the president sleeps with and his wife have tested positive for COVID."

Is there a better outcome than it being legit, him passing, and people being asked, "since he's been telling you COVID is fake all this time, what else do you think he may have been lying about?" and having reasonable responses?

I'll go sober up now.

Everyone already knows all this and don't care. As you guys have said before, intelligent people who are pro-life, do they care that Trump lies about everything or cheat on his taxes? To the republicans, he's just a puppet to pass their policies. Without him, they'd be in opposition forever.

Just need to say this, for the record, because a few of you guys are so doom and gloom about just about every piece of news:

There are a TON of moderate republicans and independent/centrist voters that don't give a fuck about abortion. Single issue (gun/abortion) voters fall right in line with the existing hard core 30 percent cult followers. It's already baked in.

To the vast majority of Americans, Trump getting COVID is at a minimum a validation that he doesn't and hasn't taken this seriously because he's a fucking moron AND cares more about the economy than protecting citizens.

All this hand wringing about showing sympathy is pure bullshit cooked up on Twitter.

But if he comes out of this with nothing in a few days, then people will be believe hasn't taken this seriously because it's not serious. He was right. People must have died of something else because it didn't fucking kill obese, fast food eating Trump.

[brian]

[tennbengal]

Jesus Christ. 7,000,000 Americans have gotten it. 200,000 people died. Not everyone who gets it dies.

I get that the propaganda behind Trump is unreal, but...c'mon now.

[degenerasian]

Jesus Christ. 7,000,000 Americans have gotten it. 200,000 people died. Not everyone who gets it dies.

I get that the propaganda behind Trump is unreal, but...c'mon now.

I understand. Just giving you scenarios. I mean if Trump comes out of this in a week you're going to see the It's Just a Flu American Tour. The base is not a monolithic group and instead is a group that consists of people with varying levels of enthusiasm on going out to vote. Turning out the base is all that really matters. Take John Bolton who is voting for Ronald Reagan. Turn those into Trump votes and Trumps numbers improved. We are talking about 3/100 people need be affected for it to make a meaningful difference.

The how serious is Covid and is Herd immunity the correct strategy is still being discussed around rational people and countries. So it’s not just kooks that will have their beliefs reaffirmed. It’s areas where the virus was controlled where the effects of the virus were less than the economic effects.

[sancarlos]

[tennbengal]

No one can stop him from saying any stupid thing he wants. But to decide that everything that happens is presumptively good for him is not sane.

They might somehow make this good for him, but that is gong to be hard. It would have been much easier for them and him to dig out of their hole if he had not come up covid positive.

This robs him of two weeks of tarmac white supremacist rallies. It robs him of two weeks of fund raising. It probably costs him at least one debate if not two and the chance that Biden will gaffe and help give trump campaign oxygen by extension. It may delay the SC hearings. Delays there matter.

And, those other stories are not gone. They are still there. There will be a news vacuum in about four days with him shut down. Stories on the taxes and Parscale etc are there to fill a void.

So, yeah, they will do what they can to salvage this for the campaign and they will say a bunch of stuff and spin like tops, but in no fucking manner is this a good thing for them literally 30 days before Election Day and while early voting is already underway.

[mister d]

So 14 days from now leaves two weeks before the election. What in the world do you think swings say 5 points (to get it into cheating range) from that above list? People are going to vote for him in the millions now who were not going to because he and his team caught the thing they've spent 7 months denying or minimizing that has killed 200,000+ people and counting? It doesn't track.

I think there's a certain type of person, the type of dipshit who can somehow truly be undecided, who will see Trump as a victim of both the disease and the left's mockery of his predicament and use that to offset some of the shitty things Trump does. "Both sides can be cruel", "they're no better than he is", etc, etc. And if their other politics or financial interests align more with the right, that's the self-justification they needed. Its idiotic, for sure, but see Brian's post above. If someone ostensibly firmly on the left hears Trump has covid and their reaction is to wish him well and lash out at those on the same team who consider the possibility that the liar might be lying, why wouldn't that be the default for the center?

[mister d]

Jesus Christ. 7,000,000 Americans have gotten it. 200,000 people died. Not everyone who gets it dies.

I get that the propaganda behind Trump is unreal, but...c'mon now.

But their entire propaganda relies on treating it as a binary. You either die or its no big deal and most people don't die therefore as a whole its no big deal.

[mister d]

No one can stop him from saying any stupid thing he wants. But to decide that everything that happens is presumptively good for him is not sane.

I also agree with this.

[degenerasian]

That's one part but he also did because he's Mr. Tough Guy.

[tennbengal]

I wrote too long above - my longer thoughts are there.

[tennbengal]

That's one part but he also did because he's Mr. Tough Guy.

lol. No.

[sancarlos]

[Rush2112]

[Steve of phpBB]

I mean, that exchange just happened. I know we are a gaslit nation but...how does this help him?

200.000 people are dead. Because of him. Isn’t this a massive reminder of that?

Yes, TB, you are correct.

Some people on this board, quite frankly, have lost their fucking minds.

I just can't process how this is a GOOD thing for him in terms of the campaign. No matter the spin.

1. It keeps him quiet and off the campaign trail and off camera for a while. The more Trump is out there, the more he shows America how terrible he is, and the worse it is for his campaign. So Trump not being as visible will help his campaign. That is what happened in 2016, that's what's been happening to his approval ever since he won.

2. It makes the Trumps an object of sympathy for millions of people. No, not the people who already blame Trump for the state of the pandemic - but those people weren't going to vote for him anyway. And not the people who think Covid is a hoax, because they will find a way to vote for him no matter what. But sympathy for someone who has taken sick - especially his wife - is a natural human reaction. For us, we all hate Trump enough that we aren't bothered by it. But it's those morons in the middle, who are low information enough to be receptive to a message like "the President and his poor wife are sick, and the liberals are still attacking them? Have they no shame? Both sides are a problem."

3. Relatedly, it limits how strongly Biden and Harris can campaign. How harsh they can get, how much they can talk about the virus, etc.

4. It gives Trump an excuse to avoid the next debate.

[Steve of phpBB]

So 14 days from now leaves two weeks before the election. What in the world do you think swings say 5 points (to get it into cheating range) from that above list? People are going to vote for him in the millions now who were not going to because he and his team caught the thing they've spent 7 months denying or minimizing that has killed 200,000+ people and counting? It doesn't track.

I think there's a certain type of person, the type of dipshit who can somehow truly be undecided, who will see Trump as a victim of both the disease and the left's mockery of his predicament and use that to offset some of the shitty things Trump does. "Both sides can be cruel", "they're no better than he is", etc, etc. And if their other politics or financial interests align more with the right, that's the self-justification they needed. Its idiotic, for sure, but see Brian's post above. If someone ostensibly firmly on the left hears Trump has covid and their reaction is to wish him well and lash out at those on the same team who consider the possibility that the liar might be lying, why wouldn't that be the default for the center?

I missed this in scrolling. My second point is basically this, though Mr. D said it better (up until his last sentence anyway).

We have absolutely no evidence of how Maddow subjectively or emotionally has reacted to the news of Trump's diagnosis. All we know is that she made a very polite public statement, and that if she had done anything less she would be assisting the Trump campaign.

At this point, you have to assume that any public statement by any public figure is simply a performance for the election. That applies to the candidates and also to prominent media members.

[Nonlinear FC]

That's another bit of news the sky is falling crowd has, I dunno, either ignored are is unaware of.

https://apnews.com/article/election-202 ... f523b93dd9

The gobs of cash Biden has raised since securing the Democratic nomination amount to a complete reversal in fortune for the former vice president. During the Democratic primary, he struggled to raise cash and was almost broke by the time he won the South Carolina primary, which catapulted him to a commanding Super Tuesday performance.

In the months since, a flood of donations and low spending has enabled him to eclipse Trump’s once-formidable cash reserves.

That has allowed Biden to dominate the airwaves with TV advertising in battleground states with just weeks to go before the election.

Biden will not have to formally submit his September fundraising numbers to the Federal Election Commission until later this month

That's the reason Trump flew up to NJ. They are fucking desperate.

[Rex]

Any day that coronavirus is in the news is a bad day for Trump. Agree that it’s not realistic to spin this as positive, especially when other people in Trump’s orbit are also getting sick or having to quarantine.

[Nonlinear FC]

I mean, that exchange just happened. I know we are a gaslit nation but...how does this help him?

200.000 people are dead. Because of him. Isn’t this a massive reminder of that?

Yes, TB, you are correct.

Some people on this board, quite frankly, have lost their fucking minds.

I just can't process how this is a GOOD thing for him in terms of the campaign. No matter the spin.

1. It keeps him quiet and off the campaign trail and off camera for a while. The more Trump is out there, the more he shows America how terrible he is, and the worse it is for his campaign. So Trump not being as visible will help his campaign. That is what happened in 2016, that's what's been happening to his approval ever since he won.

2. It makes the Trumps an object of sympathy for millions of people. No, not the people who already blame Trump for the state of the pandemic - but those people weren't going to vote for him anyway. And not the people who think Covid is a hoax, because they will find a way to vote for him no matter what. But sympathy for someone who has taken sick - especially his wife - is a natural human reaction. For us, we all hate Trump enough that we aren't bothered by it. But it's those morons in the middle, who are low information enough to be receptive to a message like "the President and his poor wife are sick, and the liberals are still attacking them? Have they no shame? Both sides are a problem."

3. Relatedly, it limits how strongly Biden and Harris can campaign. How harsh they can get, how much they can talk about the virus, etc.

4. It gives Trump an excuse to avoid the next debate.

You can very easily say "while it's unfortunate, it's also another reminder that he and his administration simply aren't taking it seriously."

And, at this point, Biden is up anywhere from 5 to 8 points in the polls. Trump NEEDS THIS TIME to try and claw back. This is the rough equivalent of being down two touchdowns in the third quarter and then not getting the ball back until the middle of the 4th. Sure, you can still come back, but you've lost a ton of valuable time.

BTW, this just means he'll double-down on his Tweeting, because that's pretty much the only thing he'll have to offer them. We all know how batshit he gets, especially when he's feeling cornered.

You don't have to attack Trump to make the point that there's no end in sight for this thing... Look, even the almighty President got it... And there's no plan in place... Put someone in charge that gives a shit.

I really don't think the "morons in the middle" are going to line up with a bunch of sympathy for a crew that makes fun of ppl for wearing a mask.

[Steve of phpBB]

I really don't think the "morons in the middle" are going to line up with a bunch of sympathy for a crew that makes fun of ppl for wearing a mask.

I dunno. How many of those people think of Trump primarily as someone who makes fun of people for wearing a mask?

I don't think the sky is falling, and I don't think this will lose the election for Biden. But I can't see how it does anything but help Trump.

[tennbengal]

No one can stop him from saying any stupid thing he wants. But to decide that everything that happens is presumptively good for him is not sane.

They might somehow make this good for him, but that is gong to be hard. It would have been much easier for them and him to dig out of their hole if he had not come up covid positive.

This robs him of two weeks of tarmac white supremacist rallies. It robs him of two weeks of fund raising. It probably costs him at least one debate if not two and the chance that Biden will gaffe and help give trump campaign oxygen by extension. It may delay the SC hearings. Delays there matter.

And, those other stories are not gone. They are still there. There will be a news vacuum in about four days with him shut down. Stories on the taxes and Parscale etc are there to fill a void.

So, yeah, they will do what they can to salvage this for the campaign and they will say a bunch of stuff and spin like tops, but in no fucking manner is this a good thing for them literally 30 days before Election Day and while early voting is already underway.

Bumping this in a general response from me to the this-is-a-good-thing crowd.

[Steve of phpBB]

This robs him of two weeks of tarmac white supremacist rallies.

This is part of my point.

I'm with you on fundraising, though.

[Nonlinear FC]

This robs him of two weeks of tarmac white supremacist rallies.

This is part of my point.

I'm with you on fundraising, though.

IOW, it's not accurate to say "I don't see how this is anything other than good for Trump."

[Rex]

At best, it is good news for some GOP senate candidates who would be better off without the distraction of Trump doing Trump things everywhere.

[Steve of phpBB]

This robs him of two weeks of tarmac white supremacist rallies.

This is part of my point.

I'm with you on fundraising, though.

IOW, it's not accurate to say "I don't see how this is anything other than good for Trump."

Sorry, in case I wasn't clear. I think it is good for Trump that he will not be holding white supremacist rallies. Those do not seem to help him with the public.

Fundraising *could* be a problem for Trump, but somehow I think they will find (or steal) enough money to do whatever they need.

[sancarlos]

[HaulCitgo]

I know I shouldn't but I kinda hope... Anyway love the reports of his obesity. If that's obese America is screwed.

[Nonlinear FC]

I know I shouldn't but I kinda hope... Anyway love the reports of his obesity. If that's obese America is screwed.

He hides his weight with really large suits. When you see him on a golf course, he has a huge ass and a pretty good sized gut.

But, yeah, most people are overweight/obese when you use the medically very strict BMI stuff. I should technically weigh something like 178. I haven't weighed that since 1990, and I'm nowhere close to obese. I'm technically "overweight," which... I could stand to lose about 10 pounds, and even then I'd be technically "overweight" on that scale.

That's pretty ridiculous.

Going by BMI, Trump is ABSOLUTELY obese.