2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

Post by psunate77 »

Joe K wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:04 pm
psunate77 wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:41 pm Pelosi and the House passed the heroes act months ago. It has been sitting on McConnell's desk for months. Th Dems want money for states that have been hit hard by the virus. The Repubs want money for a FBI building that has nothing to do with the pandemic. So the Senate is now trying to pack the SCOTUS instead of worrying about the unemployed like Trump even wanted, but it's Pelosi's fault.

Blitzer is a clown.
Do you think Pelosi effectively communicated any of those points in the interview with CNN?

Do you think that any potential voter who’s undecided about who to back for President, Senate or the House would watch that interview and come away impressed with the Democratic Party or its leadership?
I think any undecided voter would be more upset with the current action of the Senate pushing a SCOTUS appointee across over helping people then a interview with the "Fake Media"
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

Post by Joe K »

P.D.X. wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:40 pm Arguing over CNN performances ffs.
Yes, the public statements of the Speaker of the House regarding economic relief that would affect tens of millions Americans struggling to pay rent or afford food is surely a more frivolous topic than what people typically post about on message boards. Certainly less important than fruit flavors in candy.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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Joe K wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:31 pm
Johnnie wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:14 pm I didn't see the clip, but read the dialogue of their exchange and they were both petty little children.

He with the feigned concerned for others and her with the lame clap backs.
The last minute of this clip is brutal.

😬

Man, I feel like that's how I'd react if I keep getting trolled.

I could never be a politician.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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brian wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:13 pm Wait, I thought if the Dems nominated Biden instead of Bernie he was going to get smoked by Trump?

Dude. Do not fucking go there.

Yet.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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Guh. Biden should have run *4 years ago* specifically because he wasn't Hillary. But Democrats hubris knows no bounds.

And because a good segment of Americans don't understand what "Democratic Socialism" is -- on both sides -- the lame centrist old white guy that doesn't scare other lame centrist old white people wouldn't get smoked and only the loudmouths on Twitter would make you think otherwise.

It took the entire establishment dropping and rallying around Biden in the same weekend -- to form the Human Centristpede -- to push Bernie out of the way because they are petrified are going hard left.

Bernie's policies are immeasurably better for America, but since words scare white people we can't have them.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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Johnnie wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 8:13 pmOh shit, you just reminded me about toilet paper.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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The terrible and biased data analysis in the tweets on this page are going to make my head explode.

I'm sorry, a line chart of polling data does nothing to prove anything about why the numbers are there. It only proves that the survey data can be put on a chart. It most certainly says nothing about what Warren or Bernie or any other candidate would have looked like in similar polls.

And then the Lincoln Project one - where is the evidence that all $39M came from Democrat donors?
Totally Kafkaesque
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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Shirley wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:34 amI'm sorry, a line chart of polling data does nothing to prove anything about why the numbers are there. It only proves that the survey data can be put on a chart. It most certainly says nothing about what Warren or Bernie or any other candidate would have looked like in similar polls.
When two entities are in direct competition, do you really expect their favorability to be disconnected? Like what could possibly happen that would cause Trump and Biden to both sustain a 7 point rise for a few weeks?
Shirley wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:34 amAnd then the Lincoln Project one - where is the evidence that all $39M came from Democrat donors?
Sure. I think its fair to see if Democrats and Republicans both are funneling huge amounts of money into the same group of establishment players with massively troubling pasts. That should make everyone feel better.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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mister d wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:44 am
Shirley wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:34 amI'm sorry, a line chart of polling data does nothing to prove anything about why the numbers are there. It only proves that the survey data can be put on a chart. It most certainly says nothing about what Warren or Bernie or any other candidate would have looked like in similar polls.
When two entities are in direct competition, do you really expect their favorability to be disconnected? Like what could possibly happen that would cause Trump and Biden to both sustain a 7 point rise for a few weeks?
Shirley wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:34 amAnd then the Lincoln Project one - where is the evidence that all $39M came from Democrat donors?
Sure. I think its fair to see if Democrats and Republicans both are funneling huge amounts of money into the same group of establishment players with massively troubling pasts. That should make everyone feel better.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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I stand corrected.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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mister d wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:44 am
Shirley wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:34 amI'm sorry, a line chart of polling data does nothing to prove anything about why the numbers are there. It only proves that the survey data can be put on a chart. It most certainly says nothing about what Warren or Bernie or any other candidate would have looked like in similar polls.
When two entities are in direct competition, do you really expect their favorability to be disconnected? Like what could possibly happen that would cause Trump and Biden to both sustain a 7 point rise for a few weeks?
I'm not sure what part of my point you're arguing against. I made no claims about the interpretation of that data. And if I did, I certainly wouldn't claim that it was "proof" of anything, like that Rosenberg guy did.
Totally Kafkaesque
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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I was defending my counter to the original post. I thought you were indicting all opinions.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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mister d wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:58 am I was defending my counter to the original post. I thought you were indicting all opinions.
I was indicting the dude who claimed that chart was definitive proof that Biden is the greatest. Anyone can speculate about what data means, but anyone who looks at a single line chart and claims it proves some abstract notion is someone who isn't a great thinker.
Totally Kafkaesque
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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This got to good for Biden, no?

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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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Speaking of the Lincoln Project, I was wondering what they were going to do if Trump died. Considering they are all establishment GOP guys, were they going to take all of that money and start pumping it into supporting a potential GOP replacement for Trump? Would have been the greatest ploy ever to take (presumably Democrat money), and end up using it to promote the GOP candidate.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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psunate77 wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:32 pm Look at this


They are stealing this election and nobody is stopping them.
As someone who waited over an hour and voted in Georgia yesterday, I’ll have some thoughts on this later. In short, this really misses the point. Badly.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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If you're going to say the point is how massive the opposition is to Trump, that's fine, but its not missing the point to call bullshit on intentionally forcing some people to wait 4+ hours to vote while intentionally letting others go in and out in 15.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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The Sybian wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:25 pm Speaking of the Lincoln Project, I was wondering what they were going to do if Trump died. Considering they are all establishment GOP guys, were they going to take all of that money and start pumping it into supporting a potential GOP replacement for Trump? Would have been the greatest ploy ever to take (presumably Democrat money), and end up using it to promote the GOP candidate.
I honestly think these guys are sincere in what they're doing. They might be using it all to make bank, but I believe them when they say the current iteration of the GOP just isn't tenable long-term.

The numbers bear this out, which is what all the McConnell shit is all about -- get whatever you can on the books in the next few cycles, before it's too late.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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The Sybian wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:25 pm Speaking of the Lincoln Project, I was wondering what they were going to do if Trump died. Considering they are all establishment GOP guys, were they going to take all of that money and start pumping it into supporting a potential GOP replacement for Trump? Would have been the greatest ploy ever to take (presumably Democrat money), and end up using it to promote the GOP candidate.
Rick Wilson was on Larry Wilmore's podcast and he, along with others in the Lincoln Project, collectively decided to "go scorched earth and burn every bridge to the GOP." He seemed sincere that they all want to keep fighting against the current GOP and pin Trumpism to them from now forward.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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Wonder if they'll be given a louder voice in the Dem party than the actually elected progressive bloc.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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Shirley wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:34 am The terrible and biased data analysis in the tweets on this page are going to make my head explode.

I'm sorry, a line chart of polling data does nothing to prove anything about why the numbers are there. It only proves that the survey data can be put on a chart. It most certainly says nothing about what Warren or Bernie or any other candidate would have looked like in similar polls.
Not to mention that the primary season arguments about electability preceded a pandemic that’s completely unprecedented in the lifetime of anyone less than 102 years old. Unprecedented events tend to significantly change how politicians (especially sitting Presidents) are viewed. George W. Bush wasn’t actually the greatest President in American history in the months after the 9/11 attacks, notwithstanding his astronomical approval rating.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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mister d wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:41 pm Wonder if they'll be given a louder voice in the Dem party than the actually elected progressive bloc.
Wouldn't shock me. Corporatist, centrist Democrats are basically diet Republicans on an actual political spectrum.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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Joe K wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:45 pm
Shirley wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:34 am The terrible and biased data analysis in the tweets on this page are going to make my head explode.

I'm sorry, a line chart of polling data does nothing to prove anything about why the numbers are there. It only proves that the survey data can be put on a chart. It most certainly says nothing about what Warren or Bernie or any other candidate would have looked like in similar polls.
Not to mention that the primary season arguments about electability preceded a pandemic that’s completely unprecedented in the lifetime of anyone less than 102 years old. Unprecedented events tend to significantly change how politicians (especially sitting Presidents) are viewed. George W. Bush wasn’t actually the greatest President in American history in the months after the 9/11 attacks, notwithstanding his astronomical approval rating.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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When the georgia legislature turned from democratic to Republican about twenty years ago many elected types jumped ship and switched from democrat to Republican for political purposes. One guy in particular who has now come out as bisexual and who was pretty clearly Decatur liberalish but is/was still a Georgia Republican. Might not be a ton but there are a chunk of these nationwide if the blue wave comes through.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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Nonlinear FC wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:39 pm
The Sybian wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:25 pm Speaking of the Lincoln Project, I was wondering what they were going to do if Trump died. Considering they are all establishment GOP guys, were they going to take all of that money and start pumping it into supporting a potential GOP replacement for Trump? Would have been the greatest ploy ever to take (presumably Democrat money), and end up using it to promote the GOP candidate.
I honestly think these guys are sincere in what they're doing. They might be using it all to make bank, but I believe them when they say the current iteration of the GOP just isn't tenable long-term.

The numbers bear this out, which is what all the McConnell shit is all about -- get whatever you can on the books in the next few cycles, before it's too late.
I don't doubt this at all, they are been virulently anti-Trump since the 2016 Primaries. I just worry that people see them as a Liberal beacon of greatness, but the second Trump is out, they will go to work at knocking down Biden and the Dems, and I worry that people will glom on to them. Plus, they are in large part responsible for what the GOP has become. They are dirty tricksters and stretched the rules and norms so far that Trump could walk in and take over their party. If Trump died tomorrow, they are by no means Biden guys, and they will move quickly to back a mainstream GOP candidate, and now they have a giant nest egg of Dem money to do it. I'm just gaming out scenarios here, but that would have been the greatest coup for them.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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Jaded. But maybe. Id say more like a lot of moderates that could legitimately be democrats if they didn't spend all the money. But they always spend all the money. Just takes two years to remember.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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Rex wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:35 pm
psunate77 wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:32 pm Look at this


They are stealing this election and nobody is stopping them.
As someone who waited over an hour and voted in Georgia yesterday, I’ll have some thoughts on this later. In short, this really misses the point. Badly.
1. The real story here is the incredible enthusiasm to vote and pent up demand for early voting. I expect that will be true everywhere. In Georgia, it’s mixed with some skepticism for mail-in voting after the fiasco in the June primary, with people waiting months for their absentee ballot to arrive (or, like me, never getting it at all). The total number of votes counted on Monday was 40% higher than on Day 1 of EV in 2016, and that was with some polling places closed due to the holiday (and a lot more absentee requests than ever before).

2. Claiming that the lines were a sign of voter oppression is just stupid, it’s low-effort punditry at its worst. Having lived in New York and Not New York, I’ve really come to appreciate how little effort people put into covering places that are Not New York. In Georgia, elections are administered by the counties. At least the decisions that we’re talking about here, that would result in long lines, are made by the counties. If the state government wanted to suppress Black votes, you would think they would start by targeting the counties where the most Black voters live. Yet Fulton and DeKalb have done great so far. Fulton has EV at State Farm Arena, with free parking, great transit access and 300 machines. Fulton and DeKalb are processing record numbers of EV voters with a minimum of complaints. Even people on Nextdoor are raving.

3. With that said, leaving the details to the counties does lead to unequal results. The picture above is from Cobb County, and almost all of the issues you are seeing are from either Cobb or Gwinnett. In the last 20 years or so, both Cobb and Gwinnett have grown up to be big boy counties with a lot of diversity, big city amenities and big city problems, but the local government is still stuck in the days when only good ol boys and young white families lived there. Racism is part of that, but it’s more accurate to say that they’ve just struggled to adapt to change sometimes. It looks like both have done a poor job of anticipating demand and did not set up enough EV polling places. Even with that, it’s hard to say that the polling stations were set up unfairly. Everyone registered in a county can vote anywhere in the county, and the geographic distribution looks very fair to me (and if anything, it looks like the wait times have been lower in the more diverse parts of the county closer to Atlanta).

4. It took me about 1.5 hours to vote yesterday. I could have gone to State Farm and been in and out in 15 minutes, but I had absolutely no problem with standing in line, outdoors on a beautiful day. It felt more like voting to me. A lot of the people who go stand in line on the first day of EV are like the people who stand in line for the Star Wars premiere. They were there for the event. They didn’t have to be there. There are 19 days of early voting, including weekends. There is an absentee dropbox at the locations. There are still about two weeks to ask for an absentee ballot. As I said above, the people who were out there, for the most part, knew what they were doing and wanted to be a part of it. One of the benefits of making a public display of voting (and standing in line to do so) is to encourage others to do the same. And one of the after-effects of talking about “long lines” and “suppression” is you discourage people from voting.

5. I think my line would have been about 30-40 minutes shorter if it weren’t for COVID precautions. There were plenty of machines, but intake was a lot slower than usual. Old and handicapped people were allowed to the front of the line, and in some cases, everything had to come to a halt to allow a high-risk person to vote. I thought everything was done great from a COVID management perspective, but it contributed to the wait time.

6. EV turnout is not necessarily great news for Biden—Trump won the EV in 2016 by a healthy margin. But looking at how many people in those pictures of voting lines were distancing and wearing masks, I’m guessing the turnout is not very good for Trump.

Anyway, TL/DR: bad take was bad. Go vote, preferably in person.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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This Hunter Biden email story is going to kill Joe’s momentum??
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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7. Don't be surprised if Georgia's technology becomes an issue in the next few weeks. (Now THAT is something that the state government controls and is ripe for abuse.). To cast a ballot, you enter choices on a touch screen, then print out a paper ballot, then scan the paper ballot into a second machine (which looks like a basic home printer/scanner which eats your paper ballot), and only then have you cast a ballot. If you walk out with the paper ballot, you have not voted. It's fine if the polling place staff is experienced and proactive and there is only one way out of the polling place with clearly marked instructions not to walk out with a paper ballot. But that's a lot of things that have to go right. If this race ends up as a close R win or a recount situation, I could see a lot of people waving around the paper ballots they walked out of the polling place with.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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psunate77 wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:31 pm This Hunter Biden email story is going to kill Joe’s momentum??
No, it's Russian disinformation and only the right-wing media is falling for it.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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psunate77 wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:31 pm This Hunter Biden email story is going to kill Joe’s momentum??
Did the first 40 Hunter stories matter to anyone other than the most cultish Trump supporters? Senator Ron Johnson and the DOJ have spent months trying to make a case, there is nothing there.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

Post by P.D.X. »

Please let them latch on to this. What a waste of effort and resources. This is literally the best idea they've got?
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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brian wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:40 pm
psunate77 wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:31 pm This Hunter Biden email story is going to kill Joe’s momentum??
No, it's Russian disinformation and only the right-wing media is falling for it.
If this is true, then this will help tamp down the disinformation attempt:

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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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Or not. This is a good counter-point:

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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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P.D.X. wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:42 pm Please let them latch on to this. What a waste of effort and resources. This is literally the best idea they've got?
Swear to God - it is far too late to change anyone's mind.

Footage of Biden eating puppies, maybe. But this idiocy won;t make any difference.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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One of us is wrong about just how many people are looking for an internal excuse to vote for Trump.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

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tennbengal wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:54 pm Or not. This is a good counter-point:

Yeah, I think that’s a valid counterpoint that makes Twitter and Facebook look like they’re being inconsistent for political reasons. They didn’t censor links to the NYT’s stories about Trump’s tax returns even though whoever provided them the tax returns to the Times almost certainly either obtained them illegally or violated a law or confidentiality agreement by sharing them. I don’t think Mark Zuckerberg or Jack Dorsey should be the arbiter of when it’s okay to publish stories obtained from sources who may have broken the law.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

Post by Joe K »

Pruitt wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:06 pm
P.D.X. wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:42 pm Please let them latch on to this. What a waste of effort and resources. This is literally the best idea they've got?
Swear to God - it is far too late to change anyone's mind.

Footage of Biden eating puppies, maybe. But this idiocy won;t make any difference.
I think you’re probably right. I mean does anyone doubt that Hunter Biden benefited from his proximity to power or that Joe knew more about what Hunter was doing than he has let on? Burisma certainly didn’t hire Hunter for his knowledge of the natural gas industry or the Ukrainian economy. This whole story is likely already baked into people’s opinions unless Biden overreacts and says something crazy in response.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election: Joe Biden vs Whoever the Republicans Nominate

Post by psunate77 »

Pruitt wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:06 pm
P.D.X. wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:42 pm Please let them latch on to this. What a waste of effort and resources. This is literally the best idea they've got?
Swear to God - it is far too late to change anyone's mind.

Footage of Biden eating puppies, maybe. But this idiocy won;t make any difference.
I said the same thing about the emails in 2016 and clearly it changed peoples minds.

Lucky now, Trump is an idiot, millions have already voted, and sadly people continue to get sick or worst.
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