Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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McConnell has Romney (and based on reports and public statements, 50 other GOP Senators).



This happens every time. The GOP allows a couple of strategic defectors (in this case Murkowski and Collins), but Mitch always finds the votes on judicial nominees.
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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Guy still wants to be president. No go is Republican primary death.
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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I love the idea that you can do something really shitty and aggressively partisan and then POOF it's now precedent! It's not at all shitty the next time!
Totally Kafkaesque
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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Shirley wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:44 am I love the idea that you can do something really shitty and aggressively partisan and then POOF it's now precedent! It's not at all shitty the next time!
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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Why didn't they just keep the woman on a machine for 3 months. Conversation must have been had. Seemed like that's what she was doing in life.
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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I wish they would at least use the argument that Trump isn't a lame duck, but Obama was. While that's not a great argument (especially when you consider how close we are to the election), at least it's not as corrosive as the argument that the acceptable behavior depends on the alignment of the political parties involved as if that's in any way supposed to be what the Constitution intended.
Totally Kafkaesque
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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It's amazing to me how US Senators are judged on pretty much one vote. During their 6 years, they vote on hundreds of bills, most to screw Americans. But as long as they vote correctly on Supreme Court nominations, they get a pass.
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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Shirley wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:51 am I wish they would at least use the argument that Trump isn't a lame duck, but Obama was. While that's not a great argument (especially when you consider how close we are to the election), at least it's not as corrosive as the argument that the acceptable behavior depends on the alignment of the political parties involved as if that's in any way supposed to be what the Constitution intended.
But they held up Garland for like 10 months. This is less than two. I think I read that there is precedent for not filling a seat so close to election day even with a reelection bid. I'll have to try to track that down.
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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If they take both the Senate and the White House and keep the House, the Dems should just use the nuclear options and remove the filibuster and pack the Court. Fuck 'em. Don't they have anyone in the Senate willing to play hardball?

And to Degen's point, why is no one hammering them in the media that those GOP fucks haven't even brought COVID relief bills up in the Senate? That should be the lead in every CNN and CNBC opinion show, like the way the national evening news after the Tet Offensive would lead with the number of dead in Vietnam. Hammer the fuck out of them.
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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A_B wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:55 am
Shirley wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:51 am I wish they would at least use the argument that Trump isn't a lame duck, but Obama was. While that's not a great argument (especially when you consider how close we are to the election), at least it's not as corrosive as the argument that the acceptable behavior depends on the alignment of the political parties involved as if that's in any way supposed to be what the Constitution intended.
But they held up Garland for like 10 months. This is less than two. I think I read that there is precedent for not filling a seat so close to election day even with a reelection bid. I'll have to try to track that down.
Right, that's a good argument, but it's obviously not one the GOP can use.
Totally Kafkaesque
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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Unfortunately for the Dems here, this isn’t a court proceeding, and precedent doesn’t matter much. This case and Garland’s are consistent in the only way that really matters: the GOP wants as many federal judges as possible, and will do whatever is necessary to achieve that goal. It’s long past time for the Dems to use hardball tactics rather than appealing to precedent, consistency or Mitt Romney’s conscience.
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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Joe K wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:07 am Unfortunately for the Dems here, this isn’t a court proceeding, and precedent doesn’t matter much. This case and Garland’s are consistent in the only way that really matters: the GOP wants as many federal judges as possible, and will do whatever is necessary to achieve that goal. It’s long past time for the Dems to use hardball tactics rather than appealing to precedent, consistency or Mitt Romney’s conscience.
True. It's an appeal to fairness falling on deaf ears.
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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Hear me out ... what if Schumer tweeted Graham's 2016 quote about using his words against him with those big side-eyes emojis at the end?
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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Joe K wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:07 am Unfortunately for the Dems here, this isn’t a court proceeding, and precedent doesn’t matter much. This case and Garland’s are consistent in the only way that really matters: the GOP wants as many federal judges as possible, and will do whatever is necessary to achieve that goal. It’s long past time for the Dems to use hardball tactics rather than appealing to precedent, consistency or Mitt Romney’s conscience.
I made this argument earlier. The GOP have viewed the court as important for the last 40 years (since Roe v Wade) and they now put elephants on their side of the seesaw, with support from their unified base. The Dems can scream all they want and even expand the court to 11, but if they put moderates on the court, like Kagan, with those two extra seats, will it matter? For example, you put a democrat judge on there who's wishy-washy on Medicare For All, then what' the point? You need to move left and put bomb-throwers on the court to combat the elephants.
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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A_B wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:55 am
Shirley wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:51 am I wish they would at least use the argument that Trump isn't a lame duck, but Obama was. While that's not a great argument (especially when you consider how close we are to the election), at least it's not as corrosive as the argument that the acceptable behavior depends on the alignment of the political parties involved as if that's in any way supposed to be what the Constitution intended.
But they held up Garland for like 10 months. This is less than two. I think I read that there is precedent for not filling a seat so close to election day even with a reelection bid. I'll have to try to track that down.
Mitch was on record in like... March of 2016, at least, saying he wanted the will of the voters to prevail.

I'm with whoever said that if there is a blue wave, there should be a reckoning that includes ditching the filibuster and packing the court.

Fucking sick and tired of minority rule in this country.
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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Besides expanding the court the other proposal that needs to be on the table should Dems win the White House and Congress is statehood for DC and Puerto Rico. Unless GOP Senators are scared of such structural challenges to their power, they will never compromise.
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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degenerasian wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:17 am
Joe K wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:07 am Unfortunately for the Dems here, this isn’t a court proceeding, and precedent doesn’t matter much. This case and Garland’s are consistent in the only way that really matters: the GOP wants as many federal judges as possible, and will do whatever is necessary to achieve that goal. It’s long past time for the Dems to use hardball tactics rather than appealing to precedent, consistency or Mitt Romney’s conscience.
I made this argument earlier. The GOP have viewed the court as important for the last 40 years (since Roe v Wade) and they now put elephants on their side of the seesaw, with support from their unified base. The Dems can scream all they want and even expand the court to 11, but if they put moderates on the court, like Kagan, with those two extra seats, will it matter? For example, you put a democrat judge on there who's wishy-washy on Medicare For All, then what' the point? You need to move left and put bomb-throwers on the court to combat the elephants.
Yet another problem with the Dems. As the GOP moves way farther Right, the Dems move towards the center on many issues, yet the GOP controls the narrative that the Dems are all Radical Leftists. And when they can't get that to stick on Biden, they say he is a puppet controlled by the Radical Left. I can't imagine that will stick with anyone but the most brain dead sheep, but the fear of Socialism and the Radical Left has certainly gained a ton of traction. Obamacare was essentially the GOP's counter to Hillary's healthcare plan, but didn't go far enough for the 1990s Dems to compromise on. Obama nominated Garland because he was a Center-Right judge and he thought the Republicans couldn't say no to him. Before Obama made his selection, Chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee Lindsey Graham listed Garland as one of potential nominees he'd most like to see on the Court, but said Obama would never select Garland. Even if you give them an impeccably qualified Center-Right nominee, they won't even hold a vote.
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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The only thing I can reason with here is, all things being equal, we'd have Garland instead of Gorsuch. That's really it. And he was a moderate, right?

Kennedy was always going to quit during a republican presidency and hand select his successor.

RBG "being put in bubble wrap" was a meme for a very long while and then she eventually passes.

The only way this shit wouldn't have happened is if a non-Hillary Democratic nominee was on the ticket in 2016 and won. But that is way oversimplified and very hindsight-y.

In the meantime Republicans played the game better and Democrats rolled over.

Regardless, FUCK OL' MITTENS. So brave of him to march after George Floyd's death and vote with Democrats on 1 of 2 Articles of Impeachment. But he's still a fucking Republican.

Reminder: it would've taken 4 Republicans with backbone at any point in the last 4 years to go independent and caucus with the Democrats to get rid of McConnell. They didn't do that because it's party over country.
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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Except we don't want more judges. We don't want PR and DC to be states. How about they compromise.
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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I want both of those things.
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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We. Not you.
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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You're going to want them atleast the latter if they can fuck around with the census enough to redistribute the House in their direction.
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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Nah. Not sure you make structural governing changes to achieve short term political goals. Actually I am sure. Destined to backfire.
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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HaulCitgo wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:05 am Nah. Not sure you make structural governing changes to achieve short term political goals. Actually I am sure. Destined to backfire.
When this judge gets pushed through, packing the court wouldn't even help until people started dying.

And it makes no sense that DC doesn't have more representation.
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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The simplest way to resolve the DC thing in your mind is to ask whether or not it would already have two Senators if it had the same demographics as North Dakota.
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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I heard that there's a provision to split Texas (and other states) in three that could be used by the GOP if DC decides to give DC and PR statehood?
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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It’s Not Hypocrisy -
Mitch McConnell’s machinations are something far more degrading.

I was watching the president of the United States suggest to a mostly maskless crowd that a Democratic congresswoman had married her brother when the news broke that Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg had died. The shock of her death sledgehammered a country teetering on an ugly and desperate edge. It came in waves. It wasn’t merely the loss to the country, or the sadness that a champion of equal rights had died. Nor was it the fact that an increasingly corrupt Republican Party is very close to forcing through the judicial supermajority it needs in order to lock in minority rule and overturn American women’s right to reproductive choice. (You will no doubt hear often in the coming weeks that, of the five conservative Supreme Court justices, four were nominated by presidents who had lost the popular vote.) There was a flashback to the contempt and grief Brett Kavanaugh’s confirmation hearing aroused in so many appalled onlookers. And then there was the dread of realizing that a citizenry breaking—financially, politically, even cognitively—under five different kinds of instability was going to have to endure more. We have been in a bad way for a long time, but this is the hurricane on top of the wildfire that follows the earthquake.
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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degenerasian wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:15 am I heard that there's a provision to split Texas (and other states) in three that could be used by the GOP if DC decides to give DC and PR statehood?
I can’t see anything less popular for Texans than making the state smaller.
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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HaulCitgo wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:00 am Except we don't want more judges. We don't want PR and DC to be states. How about they compromise.
Let’s put aside Puerto Rico for a second. What exactly is the moral argument against DC statehood? It’s more populous that a handful of existing states and the people who live there are no less deserving of representation in the House and Senate.
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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People just like having a nice, round number of 50 states. I admit that I like it too. And for the vast majority of Americans, 50 is all we've ever known.

Plus there's the weird precedent that somebody decided long ago that DC should be separate from the states. I'm not really sure why that was decided, but it's obviously been that way from day 1.

Add in the aspect of adding a predominantly black and a predominantly Hispanic, Spanish-speaking population, and well, I'm guessing statehood for those two is a pretty unpopular option for most Americans. Even among Democrats.

All that said, I think the smarter political move is to grant them senators with voting rights, but not statehood - at least not at first.
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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Puerto Rico would be the 30th most populous state, and DC is more populous than Vermont and Wyoming.
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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A_B wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:18 am
degenerasian wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:15 am I heard that there's a provision to split Texas (and other states) in three that could be used by the GOP if DC decides to give DC and PR statehood?
I can’t see anything less popular for Texans than making the state smaller.
Brilliant!
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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I'll start with it's a city not a state and end with the fact that it's one of the very small number of things that actually have plain meaning in the constitutional and arent theoretical creations of ivory tower lawyers to support their own power ambitions. How does a state govern itself if it must be governed by the federal government?
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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Now do that argument with Puerto Rico.
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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Johnnie wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:46 am The only thing I can reason with here is, all things being equal, we'd have Garland instead of Gorsuch. That's really it. And he was a moderate, right?

Kennedy was always going to quit during a republican presidency and hand select his successor.

RBG "being put in bubble wrap" was a meme for a very long while and then she eventually passes.

The only way this shit wouldn't have happened is if a non-Hillary Democratic nominee was on the ticket in 2016 and won. But that is way oversimplified and very hindsight-y.

In the meantime Republicans played the game better and Democrats rolled over.

Regardless, FUCK OL' MITTENS. So brave of him to march after George Floyd's death and vote with Democrats on 1 of 2 Articles of Impeachment. But he's still a fucking Republican.

Reminder: it would've taken 4 Republicans with backbone at any point in the last 4 years to go independent and caucus with the Democrats to get rid of McConnell. They didn't do that because it's party over country.
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

Post by Johnnie »

The fact that Rhode Island and Wyoming simultaneously exist in this country makes any argument against any statehood or splitting a state up completely pointless. It's all a power grab none the less and in the future will be used against the original intent.
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

Post by L-Jam3 »

A_B wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:07 am
HaulCitgo wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:05 am Nah. Not sure you make structural governing changes to achieve short term political goals. Actually I am sure. Destined to backfire.
When this judge gets pushed through, packing the court wouldn't even help until people started dying.

And it makes no sense that DC doesn't have more representation.
You wouldn't even need to do that. When FDR tried it, he proposed adding a new justice every time one reached 70 years old. That works as a great counter to all the younger justices the GOP put up under Trump. Fuck 'em.
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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govmentchedda wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:58 am Now do that argument with Puerto Rico.
Well they've got to want statehood before the democrats can use them for political leverage. And whos to say it would be a democratic seat? I bet those interests might not square as nicely as you might hope in 2021 much less 2051. Like I said destined to backfire.
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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Anyone who was alive for Hurricane Maria in Puerto Rico would never vote for a Republican.

If you knew any Puerto Ricans you'd know that at least.
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