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Re: Champions League 2020-2021
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:07 pm
by Nonlinear FC
mister d wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:29 pm
Is there a formation where teams don't play with a true target or center-forward? I feel like Torres-Jesus-Sterling could be absolutely impossible to defend against, but not with Jesus trying to play Aguero's role and not just flipping Jesus and Torres.
Absolutely, happens all the time in formations with what is called a False 9. This is what Pep G and Maurinho created, though they play different styles of it.
The guy in the middle is more working to create triangles in lateral runs as the ball is switched moved/around. He's not the one pressing the backline so much as working to serve the other two forwards. Think about how Messi is often getting the ball played back to him at he top of the 18 in dangerous positions. In olden times (the 90s) they would've just posted him with the center back and had him make diagonal runs all the time.
Re: Champions League 2020-2021
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:53 pm
by govmentchedda
Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:07 pm
mister d wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:29 pm
Is there a formation where teams don't play with a true target or center-forward? I feel like Torres-Jesus-Sterling could be absolutely impossible to defend against, but not with Jesus trying to play Aguero's role and not just flipping Jesus and Torres.
Absolutely, happens all the time in formations with what is called a False 9. This is what Pep G and Maurinho created, though they play different styles of it.
The guy in the middle is more working to create triangles in lateral runs as the ball is switched moved/around. He's not the one pressing the backline so much as working to serve the other two forwards. Think about how Messi is often getting the ball played back to him at he top of the 18 in dangerous positions. In olden times (the 90s) they would've just posted him with the center back and had him make diagonal runs all the time.
The Soccer 101 podcast is FANTASTIC on stuff like this.
Re: Champions League 2020-2021
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:19 pm
by Shirley
Chelsea did something similar a few times in recent years (usually due to injuries). They ran a front line of Hazard, Pedro, and Willian - all dudes under 5'9".
And they had the opposite the other day, ending with a frontline of Giroud, Abraham, and Werner - three strikers.
Re: Champions League 2020-2021
Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:05 am
by Baloney
Dutch did it in the 2010 World Cup
Re: Champions League 2020-2021
Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:08 am
by mister d
Thinking about this more I guess we probably don't want to change our entire shape before Haaland comes in next year.
Re: Champions League 2020-2021
Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:10 am
by govmentchedda
To me the most famous example of this is del Bosque playing Fabregas in this role in the 2012 Euros.
This is a pretty good write up about False 9
Re: Champions League 2020-2021
Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:14 am
by mister d
I'm going to read that more, but is it used as a fixed central role? I assume Sterling would stay on his side, but in my (very smart soccer) mind Torres and Jesus would both be circling through the middle and right to find the space that seems to be lacking against the better teams. Jesus just in the middle doesn't seem to work because he doesn't shoot immediately and is a really good tight passer.
Re: Champions League 2020-2021
Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:04 pm
by Square Rob
Not fixed central, but the key idea is to force the two central defenders to step forward to mark the false nine. This then creates space for runs from wide in behind. When played most effectively, the false nine will float across both of the two centrals and get them both focused and thinking about stepping forward.
To me this is explicitly why we’ve seen a significant return of the back three. It’s much more secure against just such a strategy. Weaker against a solid front 2 though. Genuinely expect to see a resurgence of 2 central forward players in the coming years.
Re: Champions League 2020-2021
Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:54 pm
by A_B
govmentchedda wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 5:00 pm
mister d wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 4:58 pm
Would be chaos for the weekend.
Completely here for it.
So ole played Leeds like a drum. Into the final four of league cup. A win at leister puts them two back. If this is bad I’m ok with it? Need silverware and obviously crashing out of champions league sucks but I think Sir Alex spoiled the fuck out of us.
Re: Champions League 2020-2021
Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 8:13 am
by govmentchedda
A_B wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:54 pm
govmentchedda wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 5:00 pm
mister d wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 4:58 pm
Would be chaos for the weekend.
Completely here for it.
So ole played Leeds like a drum. Into the final four of league cup. A win at leister puts them two back. If this is bad I’m ok with it? Need silverware and obviously crashing out of champions league sucks but I think Sir Alex spoiled the fuck out of us.
Same. Nothing goes from "the sky is falling" to trophies like United fandom.
Re: Champions League 2020-2021
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:45 am
by DaveInSeattle
One of the pundits on the Guardian Football Weekly podcast started out the latest episode by bringing up this picture:
Its pretty much a classic...
Re: Champions League 2020-2021
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:59 am
by mister d
Have I asked yet if its stupid that I don't really want Messi?
Re: Champions League 2020-2021
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:33 am
by govmentchedda
You haven't, but I'd definitely take him for at least 3 more years, especially if Pep was managing the team.
Re: Champions League 2020-2021
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:44 am
by mister d
Not that they aren't huge money and all that, but since I've been following they've bought almost exclusively under ~24 guys who are about to break out. Something about a 30+ star like Messi just makes the whole Champions League or bust thing feel like a no win.
(Walker and Gundogan were exceptions age-wise but both were brought in to fill specific roles, not to be stars.)
Re: Champions League 2020-2021
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:46 pm
by degenerasian
No shocker to see Haaland balling out after Mbappe did last night. Really tough call who you'd rather have.
Re: Champions League 2020-2021
Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:12 pm
by mister d
Jesus has to finish, for sure, but the announcers saying "if that's Aguero he goes right to goal" ignores that Aguero is far less likely to end up with that ball in the first place.
Re: Champions League 2020-2021
Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:23 pm
by mister d
Right about now, Monchengladbach must really be lamenting ... Cancelo Culture!!!
Re: Champions League 2020-2021
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:36 pm
by mister d
Holy shit x2.
Re: Champions League 2020-2021
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:43 pm
by govmentchedda
mister d wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:36 pm
Holy shit x2.
Insane ending.
Re: Champions League 2020-2021
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:03 pm
by mister d
I kinda get the front three but still don't love Sterling out for another.
Re: Champions League 2020-2021
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:11 pm
by govmentchedda
I threw a little at both underdogs to win today, and a little at them both in a parlay.
Re: Champions League 2020-2021
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:15 pm
by P.D.X.
I bit on the Italian dog. Seems like a good matchup. Not feeling it for ze Germans.
Re: Champions League 2020-2021
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:33 pm
by govmentchedda
P.D.X. wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:15 pm
I bit on the Italian dog. Seems like a good matchup. Not feeling it for ze Germans.
Gladbach are a right mess currently. Manager heading to Dortmund next season, but they can't sack him or they won't get the $$ from Dortmund. My wager on that one is based more on the fact that City are already up 2-0 and don't need a win. It's definitely the longer shot.
Re: Champions League 2020-2021
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:47 pm
by mister d
And Pep goes weirdly conservative in Champions League. Its not a bad bet, especially given the lineup they're running out.
Re: Champions League 2020-2021
Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:04 pm
by mister d
Any more hot bets today, Cheddz?
Re: Champions League 2020-2021
Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:36 pm
by govmentchedda
Hell naw
Re: Champions League 2020-2021
Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:49 pm
by govmentchedda
Before this round started at all I put a little on Atletico to advance. It's going about as well as yesterday's wagers.
Re: Champions League 2020-2021
Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:59 pm
by Shirley
God, N'golo Kante was incredible today. He was simply everywhere on the pitch. Such a likeable little dude too.
Re: Champions League 2020-2021
Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:30 am
by mister d
Having the first leg at home will hopefully give Pep an advantage over his own ability to wildly overthink things and gameplan defensively.
Re: Champions League 2020-2021
Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:39 pm
by mister d
If I were a Dortmund fan I'd be absolutely furious right now.
Re: Champions League 2020-2021
Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:26 pm
by Pruitt
Not news, but Liverpool looked like shit today.
Re: Champions League 2020-2021
Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:45 pm
by mister d
Would love an unfiltered commentary by Southgate on it.
Re: Champions League 2020-2021
Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:49 pm
by govmentchedda
Pruitt wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:26 pm
Not news, but Liverpool looked like shit today.
I had a little on the Reds to win, and a little on the Sky Blues to win by 2 or more. Not a good day at the window.
Re: Champions League 2020-2021
Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:56 pm
by A_B
govmentchedda wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:49 pm
Pruitt wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:26 pm
Not news, but Liverpool looked like shit today.
I had a little on the Reds to win, and a little on the Sky Blues to win by 2 or more. Not a good day at the window.
14-1 Reds last I saw!
Re: Champions League 2020-2021
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:09 pm
by mister d
Those Chelsea kits wouldn't not suck, but they would suck a lot less if the shorts were blue.
Re: Champions League 2020-2021
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:50 pm
by mister d
In case anyone is wondering, betting odds hit the scoreboards before goals do. Draw at +4,500 looked really great until I realized Chilwell had just made it 2-0.
Re: Champions League 2020-2021
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:54 pm
by Shirley
mister d wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:09 pm
Those Chelsea kits wouldn't not suck, but they would suck a lot less if the shorts were blue.
Yeah, I'm not a fan of their alternates this year. (I liked the 2-0 scoreline though)
Re: Champions League 2020-2021
Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:26 pm
by P.D.X.
Don't sleep on the last 25 of this Bayern:PSG match
Re: Champions League 2020-2021
Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:32 pm
by govmentchedda
P.D.X. wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:26 pm
Don't sleep on the last 25 of this Bayern:PSG match
Definitely. PSG have been very unlucky.
Re: Champions League 2020-2021
Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:08 pm
by mister d
So five midfielders and then Zinchenko at LB. If Dortmund gets one early, its going to be throw-up all over the place time in this house.