The Swamp

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:06 pm**

I think it is safe to maybe start this.

I envision it being a good place for Trump crimes coming to light, schadenfraude, and arguing over cabinet stuff. And whatever else is going to be interesting to chat about for the next 9 weeks.

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:07 pm**

From nonlinear at the end of the other thread:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyl ... d6e0ce1dc7

That could probably go in a lot of different threads, but it's the story of how Trump and Fox are now deeply adrift, with Trump promising to "ruin" the network over perceived betrayal.

This is awesome. Please please please help tear down Fox.

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:09 pm**

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:29 pm**

And then, there's Biden:

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:56 pm**

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:00 pm**

tennbengal wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:56 pm

Sounds like even more reason to start looking for a job. Christ.

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:02 pm**

I mean, really.

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:07 pm**

...and if they're not looking for another job, they will probably also be fired

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:10 pm**

I knew that guy sounded familiar...

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:15 pm**

Interviewer: "So about this 4-year gap between the last job you are reporting and now."

Just kidding, other than the kids, did any one person make it the whole time? Devos?

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:19 pm**

A_B wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:15 pm Interviewer: "So about this 4-year gap between the last job you are reporting and now."

Just kidding, other than the kids, did any one person make it the whole time? Devos?

Wilbur Ross (though he was asleep for most of it I'm sure)
Munchkin

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:51 pm**

brian wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:19 pm
A_B wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:15 pm Interviewer: "So about this 4-year gap between the last job you are reporting and now."

Just kidding, other than the kids, did any one person make it the whole time? Devos?
Wilbur Ross (though he was asleep for most of it I'm sure)
Munchkin

Do all the Melanias count as one?

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:51 pm**

brian wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:19 pm
A_B wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:15 pm Interviewer: "So about this 4-year gap between the last job you are reporting and now."

Just kidding, other than the kids, did any one person make it the whole time? Devos?
Wilbur Ross (though he was asleep for most of it I'm sure)
Munchkin

Carson?

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:56 pm**

OK. I will ask. Will Joe be 46 or 47?

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:01 pm**

A_B wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:56 pm OK. I will ask. Will Joe be 46 or 47?

Unless Trump resigns to allow Pence to pardon him (at which point Pence would become 46th president), Biden will be 46.

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:04 pm**

brian wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:01 pm
A_B wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:56 pm OK. I will ask. Will Joe be 46 or 47?
Unless Trump resigns to allow Pence to pardon him (at which point Pence would become 46th president), Biden will be 46.

That's exactly what I'm saying. What odds you give it?

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:10 pm**

A_B wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:04 pm
brian wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:01 pm
A_B wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:56 pm OK. I will ask. Will Joe be 46 or 47?
Unless Trump resigns to allow Pence to pardon him (at which point Pence would become 46th president), Biden will be 46.
That's exactly what I'm saying. What odds you give it?

I think it will go like this:

Trump will initially try to issue himself a blanket pardon, probably sometime right after the New Year once the newest Congress is seated.

That will obviously set off a firestorm and the legality of it will be debated, along with the debates about why the need for a pardon if "the phone call was perfect" and his "taxes are perfect", etc., etc.

His lawyers will tell him that it's probably not legal for a president to pardon himself, a precedent that not even an extreme right-wing Supreme Court will probably not want to employ since it would eventually be used/abused by future presidents, Republican and Democratic.

He will resign office either the morning of Jan. 20 or the evening of Jan. 19, at which point Pence will put pen to paper and pardon him, so yes, Biden will be the 47th president of the United States.

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:11 pm**

But... pardon him for what?

Can you offer up proactive pardons??

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:12 pm**

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:11 pm But... pardon him for what?

Can you offer up proactive pardons??

Ford did for Nixon, yes.

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:18 pm**

There's a non-zero chance the Republican Party ends up eating itself over the next few years and stuff like this is only the start.

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:34 pm**

brian wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:12 pm
Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:11 pm But... pardon him for what?

Can you offer up proactive pardons??
Ford did for Nixon, yes.

Yeah, duh.

I guess I thought Ford pardoned him for the shit that was covered in the Impeachment. Never really realized it was *magic wand* for everything he possibly ever did.

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:36 pm**

"Mike Pence's magic wand"

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:44 pm**

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:33 pm**

brian wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:10 pm
A_B wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:04 pm
brian wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:01 pm
A_B wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:56 pm OK. I will ask. Will Joe be 46 or 47?
Unless Trump resigns to allow Pence to pardon him (at which point Pence would become 46th president), Biden will be 46.
That's exactly what I'm saying. What odds you give it?
I think it will go like this:

Trump will initially try to issue himself a blanket pardon, probably sometime right after the New Year once the newest Congress is seated.

That will obviously set off a firestorm and the legality of it will be debated, along with the debates about why the need for a pardon if "the phone call was perfect" and his "taxes are perfect", etc., etc.

His lawyers will tell him that it's probably not legal for a president to pardon himself, a precedent that not even an extreme right-wing Supreme Court will probably not want to employ since it would eventually be used/abused by future presidents, Republican and Democratic.

He will resign office either the morning of Jan. 20 or the evening of Jan. 19, at which point Pence will put pen to paper and pardon him, so yes, Biden will be the 47th president of the United States.

I think this is more likely than not. However, this would not protect Trump from state charges. I think that'd require a deal, and as a condition of a deal I'd hope that Trump and Pence would both resign. So maybe Pelosi will fit in there somewhere.

I don't even know - can the NY governor issue pardons?

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:39 pm**

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:33 pm
I think this is more likely than not. However, this would not protect Trump from state charges. I think that'd require a deal, and as a condition of a deal I'd hope that Trump and Pence would both resign. So maybe Pelosi will fit in there somewhere.

I don't even know - can the NY governor issue pardons?

He can though it would seem very unlikely. Even in a Manhattan court it might hard to get a guilty verdict and not a hung jury though so wouldn’t surprise me to see a large fine negotiated for tax fraud, etc.

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:43 pm**

brian wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:39 pm
Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:33 pm
I think this is more likely than not. However, this would not protect Trump from state charges. I think that'd require a deal, and as a condition of a deal I'd hope that Trump and Pence would both resign. So maybe Pelosi will fit in there somewhere.

I don't even know - can the NY governor issue pardons?
He can though it would seem very unlikely. Even in a Manhattan court it might hard to get a guilty verdict and not a hung jury though so wouldn’t surprise me to see a large fine negotiated for tax fraud, etc.

They'll have to move it to a jurisdiction where no one has ever heard of Trump. So the republican wing of the Senate in a few weeks?

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:44 pm**

A_B wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:43 pm
brian wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:39 pm
Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:33 pm
I think this is more likely than not. However, this would not protect Trump from state charges. I think that'd require a deal, and as a condition of a deal I'd hope that Trump and Pence would both resign. So maybe Pelosi will fit in there somewhere.

I don't even know - can the NY governor issue pardons?
He can though it would seem very unlikely. Even in a Manhattan court it might hard to get a guilty verdict and not a hung jury though so wouldn’t surprise me to see a large fine negotiated for tax fraud, etc.
They'll have to move it to a jurisdiction where no one has ever heard of Trump. So the republican wing of the Senate in a few weeks?

Crackerjack!

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:01 pm**

Fox turning on Trump. You hate to see it.

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:04 pm**

Was just about to post to that. It's literally the least they can do, but I am glad they did it.

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:12 pm**

I'm trying to not get my hopes up, but I'm almost giddy with anticipation of the upcoming GOP internal civil war that Trump will bring when he starts his own network or takes over OANN or something of the sort. It will be blood in the streets type stuff and all the Dems will have to do is just stay the hell out of it and try to govern.

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:20 pm**

brian wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:12 pm
Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:11 pm But... pardon him for what?

Can you offer up proactive pardons??
Ford did for Nixon, yes.

Wish I remember where I saw it, but I read that this action could have been (should have been?) challenged in the courts, but with this Supreme Court and precedent, that would probably be tough to beat.

While looking for that, I found this article about not moving on: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/07 ... -trump-era

Whether it was Wall Street bankers or CIA torturers, Obama insisted he wanted to “turn the page” and “look forward as opposed to looking backwards.” A range of wrongdoers paid no price and, as a result, many went on to make the same mistakes again.

If Democrats actually want to move on from the Trump era, they’ll first have to provide a real reckoning with the past. Not everything can be probed, of course. But a deep dive into the administration’s mishandling of the coronavirus and other crises, plus its wider pattern of incompetence and corruption, would be warranted.

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:31 pm**

I've already written by two (Dem) senators and asked them to make sure that everything possible is investigated. No response back yet, but we'll see. What we need is what some countries that were brought back to democracy from autocracy have had -- usually called something like a "Truth and Reconciliation Commission"

In our case, it would have to be led by a special prosecutor or someone completely independent of the Justice Department, but it's going to be absolutely necessary before we can move forward in my opinion.

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:34 pm**

brian wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:12 pm I'm trying to not get my hopes up, but I'm almost giddy with anticipation of the upcoming GOP internal civil war that Trump will bring when he starts his own network or takes over OANN or something of the sort. It will be blood in the streets type stuff and all the Dems will have to do is just stay the hell out of it and try to govern.

It won't be much of a war, Fox is well established. Trump doesn't really have money.

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:52 pm**

degenerasian wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:34 pm
brian wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:12 pm I'm trying to not get my hopes up, but I'm almost giddy with anticipation of the upcoming GOP internal civil war that Trump will bring when he starts his own network or takes over OANN or something of the sort. It will be blood in the streets type stuff and all the Dems will have to do is just stay the hell out of it and try to govern.
It won't be much of a war, Fox is well established. Trump doesn't really have money.

He's got tens of millions of cultists and that's not nothing.

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2020 6:04 pm**

All indications are that Rupert Murdoch has moved on.

Trump's in big trouble.

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2020 6:17 pm**

brian wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:52 pm
degenerasian wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:34 pm
brian wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:12 pm I'm trying to not get my hopes up, but I'm almost giddy with anticipation of the upcoming GOP internal civil war that Trump will bring when he starts his own network or takes over OANN or something of the sort. It will be blood in the streets type stuff and all the Dems will have to do is just stay the hell out of it and try to govern.
It won't be much of a war, Fox is well established. Trump doesn't really have money.
He's got tens of millions of cultists and that's not nothing.

Probably like most things Trump, that's overly exaggerated. If there were really tens of millions of cultists, the country would be in flames right now.

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2020 6:24 pm**

degenerasian wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 6:17 pm
brian wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:52 pm
degenerasian wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:34 pm
brian wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:12 pm I'm trying to not get my hopes up, but I'm almost giddy with anticipation of the upcoming GOP internal civil war that Trump will bring when he starts his own network or takes over OANN or something of the sort. It will be blood in the streets type stuff and all the Dems will have to do is just stay the hell out of it and try to govern.
It won't be much of a war, Fox is well established. Trump doesn't really have money.
He's got tens of millions of cultists and that's not nothing.
Probably like most things Trump, that's overly exaggerated. If there were really tens of millions of cultists, the country would be in flames right now.

He got 70 mil votes

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2020 6:32 pm**

P.D.X. wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 6:24 pm
degenerasian wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 6:17 pm
brian wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:52 pm
degenerasian wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:34 pm
brian wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:12 pm I'm trying to not get my hopes up, but I'm almost giddy with anticipation of the upcoming GOP internal civil war that Trump will bring when he starts his own network or takes over OANN or something of the sort. It will be blood in the streets type stuff and all the Dems will have to do is just stay the hell out of it and try to govern.
It won't be much of a war, Fox is well established. Trump doesn't really have money.
He's got tens of millions of cultists and that's not nothing.
Probably like most things Trump, that's overly exaggerated. If there were really tens of millions of cultists, the country would be in flames right now.
He got 70 mil votes

Sure but they're mostly Fox watching Republicans, or better. So Fox wins either way.

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2020 6:37 pm**

brian wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:12 pm I'm trying to not get my hopes up, but I'm almost giddy with anticipation of the upcoming GOP internal civil war that Trump will bring when he starts his own network or takes over OANN or something of the sort. It will be blood in the streets type stuff and all the Dems will have to do is just stay the hell out of it and try to govern.

I would guess OANN becomes Trump TV or Trump News Network. Trump gets paid some outlandish fee to bestow his name upon the network along with eight-figure annual payments and appears exclusively on the network a couple times a week. OANN gets extra promotion and audience from having Trump on board, enabling them to increase their audience and carriage fees from cable and satellite providers.

It will be up to other media outlets to ignore them.

They will not.

Posted: **Mon Nov 09, 2020 6:39 pm**

The Swamp

The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

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Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

Re: The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration