Happy Inauguration Day (and beyond- The Biden Presidency Thread part I)

[Square Rob]

And then he switches parties. Hell he might do that anyway to improve his chances at reelection given WV was more slanted to trump than any other state.

Only way to really force him to do anything is do what Mitch does- use the full force of your media arm (Fox News) against them. The dems don’t have that, and I don’t think there’s a single person that WANTS the left to have that. As pointed above, a local media campaign on the stimulus got him to change course. But most west Virginians aren’t going to support the more progressive things y’all want to get done.

[EnochRoot]

And then he switches parties. Hell he might do that anyway to improve his chances at reelection given WV was more slanted to trump than any other state.

Only way to really force him to do anything is do what Mitch does- use the full force of your media arm (Fox News) against them. The dems don’t have that, and I don’t think there’s a single person that WANTS the left to have that. As pointed above, a local media campaign on the stimulus got him to change course. But most west Virginians aren’t going to support the more progressive things y’all want to get done.

Why wouldn’t anyone want the Democrats to have a propaganda arm of their party framing every argument for things they want to be accomplished as American, and everything that challenges them to be totalitarian?

Is it that it’d turn the country into more of a cesspool, because having one party get away with that is enough?

[govmentchedda]

It's a great question, and I think a main reason why you wouldn't want that is that you don't want the tail wagging the dog.

[EnochRoot]

It's a great question, and I think a main reason why you wouldn't want that is that you don't want the tail wagging the dog.

I think a reason you would want it is to show how absurd it is to have propaganda arms of political parties blatantly misinforming the American public.

Current state is a broken system.

Break the fuck out of it so that real reform can be had.

[A_B]

And then he switches parties. Hell he might do that anyway to improve his chances at reelection given WV was more slanted to trump than any other state.

Only way to really force him to do anything is do what Mitch does- use the full force of your media arm (Fox News) against them. The dems don’t have that, and I don’t think there’s a single person that WANTS the left to have that. As pointed above, a local media campaign on the stimulus got him to change course. But most west Virginians aren’t going to support the more progressive things y’all want to get done.

Why wouldn’t anyone want the Democrats to have a propaganda arm of their party framing every argument for things they want to be accomplished as American, and everything that challenges them to be totalitarian?

Is it that it’d turn the country into more of a cesspool, because having one party get away with that is enough?

Because, and stay with me here, propaganda is bad.

[EnochRoot]

And then he switches parties. Hell he might do that anyway to improve his chances at reelection given WV was more slanted to trump than any other state.

Only way to really force him to do anything is do what Mitch does- use the full force of your media arm (Fox News) against them. The dems don’t have that, and I don’t think there’s a single person that WANTS the left to have that. As pointed above, a local media campaign on the stimulus got him to change course. But most west Virginians aren’t going to support the more progressive things y’all want to get done.

Why wouldn’t anyone want the Democrats to have a propaganda arm of their party framing every argument for things they want to be accomplished as American, and everything that challenges them to be totalitarian?

Is it that it’d turn the country into more of a cesspool, because having one party get away with that is enough?

Because, and stay with me here, propaganda is bad.

No shit. Ya think?!

It's a great question, and I think a main reason why you wouldn't want that is that you don't want the tail wagging the dog.

I think a reason you would want it is to show how absurd it is to have propaganda arms of political parties blatantly misinforming the American public.

Current state is a broken system.

Break the fuck out of it so that real reform can be had.

[Nonlinear FC]

The left will never have a Fox News equivalent, because we don't have the stomach for it. Properly so.

[Steve of phpBB]

The left will never have a Fox News equivalent, because we don't have the stomach for it. Properly so.

I think this is right. Plus the left is way smaller than the right.

Bobby’s example of party-switching is a good one. I don’t think Manchin is inclined to *switch* parties - among other things I don’t know if he’d win a GOP primary, and if he was going to switch why not do do in 2017, before his last election? But he could feel forced to go independent and pull his support for the Dem majority. If he abstained from voting on the organizing resolution, the Rs would win 50-49.

[govmentchedda]

The left will never have a Fox News equivalent, because we don't have the stomach for it. Properly so.

I think this is right. Plus the left is way smaller than the right.

Bobby’s example of party-switching is a good one. I don’t think Manchin is inclined to *switch* parties - among other things I don’t know if he’d win a GOP primary, and if he was going to switch why not do do in 2017, before his last election? But he could feel forced to go independent and pull his support for the Dem majority. If he abstained from voting on the organizing resolution, the Rs would win 50-49.

Wut?

[Steve of phpBB]

Polling fairly consistently shows that the number of people identifying as liberal is smaller than the number identifying as conservative. It’s usually around 37% conservative, 37% moderate, and 25% liberal.

A year ago, conservatives had it 40-22.

Six months ago, conservatives had it 34-26 - which is the closet I’ve ever seen it.

Edit: https://news.gallup.com/poll/316094/con ... yndication

[P.D.X.]

Not to get circular, but maybe that's because there is a major media company that uses 'liberal' as a pejorative.

[Steve of phpBB]

Not to get circular, but maybe that's because there is a major media company that uses 'liberal' as a pejorative.

Sure. But yeah I do think that’s partially a circular point.

[Nonlinear FC]

It's not really that circular... Both facts exist and contribute to why there are more/less people identifying with the respective labels. Not exclusively, but they are both very big factors.

I said it earlier, in another context, but the fact that there is a major media outlet masquerading as a "news" source, when the bulk of what they feed their audience are noxious lies and propaganda is the single biggest problem in America today.

I see no sign of it getting better anytime soon, which is a bummer.

[EdRomero]

There's also the factor of people who say they are not liberal but when polled on specific issues, turn out to be liberal. Fox has done such a good job demonizing liberals as crazy communists, people who are okay with the wealthy paying more taxes, having a better social safety net, and other "liberal" causes won't call themselves liberal.

[Square Rob]

I said it earlier, in another context, but the fact that there is a major media outlet masquerading as a "news" source, when the bulk of what they feed their audience are noxious lies and propaganda is the single biggest problem in America today.

That was the point I was getting at. A liberal version of Fox News that held near universal control of the message for those same voters would make the current situation even worse.

[Steve of phpBB]

I think the liberal-conservative disparity existed before Fox News and Rush Limbaugh. I think those sources have made the conservatives far far worse than they used to be, but I don’t know if they had much effect on how people self-identify.

Fox News averaged 3.6 million viewers in prime time this year. That’s not a big share of the US electorate.

There's also the factor of people who say they are not liberal but when polled on specific issues, turn out to be liberal. Fox has done such a good job demonizing liberals as crazy communists, people who are okay with the wealthy paying more taxes, having a better social safety net, and other "liberal" causes won't call themselves liberal.

Yeah and that’s frustrating. Individual liberal policies have usually been more popular than liberalism overall. I’ve been waiting for that to lead to a sea change in US politics since Reagan.

[brian]

Biden's approval rating higher than any Trump ever had.

[mister d]

There's also the factor of people who say they are not liberal but when polled on specific issues, turn out to be liberal. Fox has done such a good job demonizing liberals as crazy communists, people who are okay with the wealthy paying more taxes, having a better social safety net, and other "liberal" causes won't call themselves liberal.

I think its beyond that. They'll reverse or shape their policies around nothing other than a desire to not be a liberal, even when it causes them direct or indirect harm. There's a whole subset of people out there who badly need the stimulus check but wouldn't dare advocate for it due to their brains being washed.

[mister d]

[psunate77]

[Johnnie]

Can Schumer just be like: Yea, sure. We won't kill the filibuster.

Then once rules are determined, be like: PSYCHE, BITCH

[psunate77]

Pretty bad when a Republican tells the Dems they are being punked.

https://www.rawstory.com/mitch-mcconnell-senate/

[psunate77]

[The Sybian]

How does this work, can't Biden just direct DHS and ICE not to deport anyone outside of the Order?

[psunate77]

How does this work, can't Biden just direct DHS and ICE not to deport anyone outside of the Order?

He did, but ICE already has disobeyed him and was deporting a young kid yesterday.

[L-Jam3]

That sounds like insubordination, a fireable offense by that ICE agent.

[brian]

Biden should just abolish ICE and fire all its agents. Problem solved.

[The Sybian]

That sounds like insubordination, a fireable offense by that ICE agent.

That doesn't come from an individual officer level. That's at a minimum at the behest of a Regional Director (or ICE equivalent) or Associate Director (national level person in charge of deportations, probably directly reporting to the Director of ICE. Could even be Director level, which is a Presidential appointment (and looking at the ICE website, the Org chart is topped with Tae Johnson, whose official title is "Senior Official Performing the Duties of the Director." So Biden's appointment isn't in power. Either this Johnson guy is defying the President, or someone under Johnson is taking shit into his own hands.

[The Sybian]

Biden should just abolish ICE and fire all its agents. Problem solved.

I know you've said this before, and I'm not a fan of ICE, but what would you replace it with? Many people do need to be deported, and ICE does some amazing investigative work and brings down sex slave and child trafficking rings.

[brian]

Biden should just abolish ICE and fire all its agents. Problem solved.

I know you've said this before, and I'm not a fan of ICE, but what would you replace it with? Many people do need to be deported, and ICE does some amazing investigative work and brings down sex slave and child trafficking rings.

CBP. They handled it before ICE and they can handle it again.

[The Sybian]

Biden should just abolish ICE and fire all its agents. Problem solved.

I know you've said this before, and I'm not a fan of ICE, but what would you replace it with? Many people do need to be deported, and ICE does some amazing investigative work and brings down sex slave and child trafficking rings.

CBP. They handled it before ICE and they can handle it again.

Nope. INS handled deportation prior to the creation of DHS. When DHS was created, they made CBP, ICE and USCIS which handled all of the tasks formerly done by INS. ICE took all the enforcement and investigative pieces of INS, Customs and maybe some others I'm forgetting. Actually, Border Patrol, which is part of CBP, may deport people they directly catch crossing the border. While Border Patrol falls under CBP, I never worked on anything related to Border Patrol. I know they bring border crossers in for processing, I don't know if they physically deport people, or if they pass them off to ICE. CBP currently has no infrastructure, ability or expertise in deporting. Never have, so if you abolished ICE, they would move the same people, procedures and equipment directly to CBP. CBP was responsible for child separation, so I don't think you are helping anything. It's all about the people in charge, and I trust Biden will fill the roles with much more capable and compassionate people than Trump did.

[psunate77]

[Steve of phpBB]

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-roo ... overnment/

[Steve of phpBB]

Carrying over from the Random Politics Thread. And assuming you really do care about Uhl’s credibility ...

Your objection lies between CBS and Biden's youtube, not with Jordan Uhl.

No, I'm pretty sure it's Jordan Uhl who cherry-picks stuff to fit a predetermined narrative about how terrible Biden and the Dems are.

Look at the two articles I just inserted above. Those were both published before Uhl's tweet.

Did he not research the issue well enough to find them? Or did he find them and not bother to account for them when he tweeted?

I'm not sure how CBS doesn't get your attention here. If it were "www.progressiveamericaforbernie.net" or something, sure, target the messenger.

There’s a few reasons why the major problem here is Uhl, not the article he snips from. (It was NBC, not CBS, unless I’m missing something else.)

1. Instead of simply linking the article, Uhl provides selected screenshots. This is a huge red flag. It’s basically the definition of presenting things out of context. And sure enough, his screenshots don’t include the paragraphs talking about Mayorkas’s involvement or the fact that the Administration is still working on details of the task force order. (As quite likely explanations for a short delay.)

Uhl does include a snip of the part saying the delay is expected to only be a few days. But note that he doesn’t highlight that part, but the text right after.

2. The article he’s snipping from is dated 1/27 at 11:06 pm. But he’s tweeting on 1/29 at 12:13 pm. During the intervening 37 hours, those other articles came out I cited in the thread, explaining that the task force will be announced next week. Yet he managed not to note that in his tweet. Instead he relied on the now-outdated article.

3. If you read the article he snips from (which he links in a follow-up tweet), you’ll see nothing about Biden “punting on” the task force. Yet Uhl says: “The Biden admin is quietly punting on its promise to create a task force to reunite separated families.”

[brian]

Administration sent Harris to cape for COVID relief in AZ and WV without telling Sinema or Manchin. Baller move.

[Johnnie]

I'm grateful to not be hurting financially. But it is kinda funny to see this happening. Democrats really like to fuck up the easy stuff. This could've been avoided with a clear message.

What would be so hard about adding another $600 to this and not looking like an idiot? Instead of just going with $2k it now looks duplicitous and it's implied the recipients are the ones who should've known better.

[EnochRoot]

I'm grateful to not be hurting financially. But it is kinda funny to see this happening. Democrats really like to fuck up the easy stuff. This could've been avoided with a clear message.

What would be so hard about adding another $600 to this and not looking like an idiot? Instead of just going with $2k it now looks duplicitous and it's implied the recipients are the ones who should've known better.

Huh? Democrats are letting it be known an additional $1400 is on the way. That doesn't include any future payments later this spring / summer.

Who cares what Warnock's billboard said?

[Johnnie]

Who cares what Warnock's billboard said?

Umm, the fucking voters of Georgia?

[EnochRoot]

Who cares what Warnock's billboard said?

Umm, the fucking voters of Georgia?

So you're saying that because they didn't get a direct $2k payment, and instead had to deal with a $600, then a $1400, and then another $1500 (? thinking later spring or early summer), the fucking voters of Georgia are going to feel they were played?

Come the fuck on, dude.

[Steve of phpBB]

Part of the problem is folks like AOC moving the goalposts.



It was always “$2000 instead of $600.”