The Swamp

Pence was evacuated two minutes after Trump tweeted that he didn’t have courage to do what was right.

So apparently we don't actually know how Sicknick died? The "fire extinguisher" explanation appears to be incorrect also, as that was a different cop assault (which we've seen in photographs).

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/th ... -the-right

Wouldn’t Officer Sicknick’s murder be an example of the eggshell cranium, i.e. taking one’s victims as they find them?

Another point is that they could be delaying and answer on the officer cause until they have their ducks in a row and can make the case conclusively.

Co-conspirators/jurors meeting with the defense lawyers. Totally normal...

This is the craziest part to me. Normal trial rules don’t apply. I’ve been on several juries and I wasn’t allowed to just walk out or talk to the attorneys. I know it’s different but should it be?

I think the Dems/left need to chill about this “juror” stuff.

They aren’t like jurors in a trial. They can’t be, no matter what. They’re never going to be impartial, their exposure is never limited to just the evidence presented at trial, and their job goes way beyond determining the facts.

They’re judges more than jurors.

Sen. Chris Murphy was on MSNBC yesterday talking about the trial. (Which itself would be massively improper if he was really a juror.) When asked about R senators talking to the lawyers, he pointed out that Dem senators have been talking to impeachment managers too. He said the contact with the lawyers was no big deal.

I haven't seen much discussion of this in the media, but if the Justice Department wanted to bring charges of sedition and insurrection against Trump, wouldn't the correct court be the US District Court for the District of Columbia and wouldn't that mean Trump would be facing a jury that would (likely) be overwhelming Black and/or Democratic meaning he could actually be convicted?

If this was a real trial, the “judges” would all have to recuse themselves as witnesses to the incident that caused the trial.

I find it unfortunate, in a small way, that this trial even has to happen (and it does have to happen). Because we’re back to giving Trump free airtime which is his oxygen. Twitter and the lame stream media have done more to disarm him in the last month than the Senate could ever do here.

And there’s no reason why this would prevent Trump from facing real criminal charges before a real jury in the future (hopefully in my preferred venue, the Fulton County Superior Court).

Rex wrote: ↑Fri Feb 12, 2021 9:01 am And there’s no reason why this would prevent Trump from facing real criminal charges before a real jury in the future (hopefully in my preferred venue, the Fulton County Superior Court).

Heard the Fulton County DA on Maddow last night. I like the cut of her jib.

brian wrote: ↑Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:53 am I haven't seen much discussion of this in the media, but if the Justice Department wanted to bring charges of sedition and insurrection against Trump, wouldn't the correct court be the US District Court for the District of Columbia and wouldn't that mean Trump would be facing a jury that would (likely) be overwhelming Black and/or Democratic meaning he could actually be convicted?

Yes. Though he’d probably have grounds to change venue - if they even do that in the federal system.

But if DOJ brought those charges, Trump would walk and be vindicated. I read the transcript of what he actually said on Jan 6, and I think the First Amendment would cover just about all of it. And his words were vague enough that I don’t see criminal incitement.

If someone gave an equivalent speech at a BLM rally and violence or property destruction followed, we’d call it fascism if he or she were charged with incitement.

I think Trump could be better charged with witness tampering and obstruction of justice for his conduct during the Mueller investigation. He openly threatened cooperating witnesses. Plus he directed the WH Counsel (McGahn?) to create a false document.

But really, our best hope is that there’s a really clean case for bank fraud or tax evasion.

Or a myocardial infarction.

Looks like they broke up..

I dont think the use of the Nadler speech from Clinton years works as well as the defense thinks it does.

A_B wrote: ↑Fri Feb 12, 2021 1:09 pm I dont think the use of the Nadler speech from Clinton years works as well as the defense thinks it does.

Thing is, they could be up there reading a SpongeBob script and it wouldn't matter. What a ridiculous circus.

Wish they could just run the Billy Madison clip as a rebuttal to this presentation.

Still drawing huge crowds

psunate77 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:09 pm Still drawing huge crowds

200 people? Just curious, but why do you find that remotely interesting?

If y'all are gonna quote this guy, can you put his 'content' in spoiler tags or something?

When you're definitely not a cult.

That 27% number seems high.

I would love to hear explanations of how Biden was responsible. I'd guess most just responded that way to pad the numbers. Then again, large percentages of Republicans during the Obama Admin blamed Obama for 9/11 and the response to Katrina. Facts no longer matter.

He didn't concede the election.

Biden's responsible because he's the one who stole the election in the first place.

The Sybian wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:53 am

psunate77 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:09 pm Still drawing huge crowds

200 people? Just curious, but why do you find that remotely interesting?

That 'spontaneous rally'? Not so much...

And there you have the new GOP strategy when it comes to dealing with important issues - "I know you are, but what am I?"

Trump is over Mitch

I'll keep saying it... The GOP is fucked as long as Trump keeps Trumpin'. It's not about the red states... It's about all the ones turning purple or traditional blues with big suburbs that help flip things for the GOP in off years.

They can kiss that shit goodbye as long as this continues to fester.

I think they were fucked before Trump. You can only yell Democrat and Socialist for so long. Ship has sailed. If they had run Cruz in 2016 they would have been destroyed. Everyone sees tight through that guy. And then who would they have run against juggernaught Hillary in 2020?

GOP Civil War is on. I think Trumpers win.

The GOP are human cockroaches. They'll survive.

A huge issue with the GOP until Trump is that they could dog whistle all their fear buttons, but the vast majority of well-off folks in the suburbs could ignore the racism, misogamy, etc etc because they were KIND OF subtle.

Trump and his kind are so completely off the rails, these folks can't pretend it's not what is staring everyone in the face.

So, yes, I've agreed with your statement in the past. But now, with Trump fucking up their game completely, a huge accelerant to the whole process.

degenerasian wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:47 pm You can only yell Democrat and Socialist for so long.

They've been yelling it for 90 years now. Ever since FDR. At least.

I would agree with you if they had impeached him.

sancarlos wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:55 pm

degenerasian wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:47 pm You can only yell Democrat and Socialist for so long.

They've been yelling it for 90 years now. Ever since FDR. At least.

There were real commies back then!

Check it out.

The truth is that the “socialism” taunt is among the oldest and most discreditable of political chestnuts. It’s been used by conservatives to smear Democratic or progressive policies they don’t like (which is most of them) since the 1930s, more than a decade after the Socialist Party of America last fielded Eugene V. Debs as a presidential candidate...

...And now that cry of “socialism” is back. It’s a tattered label, as anyone can tell by noting that the policies it’s applied to have been standard elements of Democratic and Republican platforms for decades. Harry Truman proposed comprehensive healthcare reform, including a national, universal health insurance program, in 1945. (The American Medical Assn. killed it by smearing it as “socialized medicine.”)

That's what I mean. There's no socialism now, you can't yell it anymore. And you cant yell it out for anything.

I'd like some healthcare so that if I break my arm I dont go bankrupt.
SOCIALIST!
I'd like some tuition relief so I can pay it off before I'm 30.
SOCIALIST!

My point is that they are never going to quit yelling the word, "Socialism". They will apply it to any progressive program the Dems propose.

I don't think the "Socialism" thing is a big problem when the Dems are running candidates like Biden.

I think the bigger problem word is "Defund."

degenerasian wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:47 pm I think they were fucked before Trump. You can only yell Democrat and Socialist for so long. Ship has sailed. If they had run Cruz in 2016 they would have been destroyed. Everyone sees tight through that guy. And then who would they have run against juggernaught Hillary in 2020?

GOP Civil War is on. I think Trumpers win.

GOP has no chance vs Trump and his base.. GOP also will not last without Trump's base.
Wisconsin has already registered the Patriot Party and I expect more states will follow.

That said it don't matter, neither party does anything for it's people, so it won't matter.