2021 NCAA Tournament

Okay . . . let's try this again.

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DSafetyGuy
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Re: 2021 NCAA Tournament

Post by DSafetyGuy » Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:22 am

I think Gonzaga just became very comfortable with being significantly better on offense than their opponents over the course of the season and when they faced a team that was really good on both ends, it was a massive problem. Their "really tough non-conference schedule" had Kansas, West Virginia, Iowa, and Virginia, the last of which was the only team to be in the top 50 in both offensive and defensive efficiency at kenpom.
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DaveInSeattle
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Re: 2021 NCAA Tournament

Post by DaveInSeattle » Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:44 am

A_B wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:14 am
So my main takeaway is that Drew timme cost them that game with his play in the first 5 minutes. chasing blocks and leaving his guy, missing rotations, and general sluggishness. He was a shell of himself. and then he did the mustache thing and the next time down he got hacked, which is what people should have done since round one, just Baylor has enough strength to make it real, I guess.
I don't think you can place any blame totally on Timme. I think the whole team was flat and sluggish, and Baylor just steamrolled them in the first five minutes.

I do think that Timme's game got exposed by Baylor though. That was what I was expecting to happen at some point in the tournament...he'd run into some big hulking dude (I thought it would be Cockburn from Illinois) who would push him around. Turns out Baylor had 4 dudes like that.

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Re: 2021 NCAA Tournament

Post by L-Jam3 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:51 am

I really wish the people in charge of the university and the athletic department didn't employ utter shitheads in the past, because that Baylor team was really something special and would've been fun to fully commit to rooting for. That was as declarative a statement as '18 Nova, '09 Carolina, and '06 Florida, in terms of recent beatdowns.
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Re: 2021 NCAA Tournament

Post by DaveInSeattle » Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:15 am

L-Jam3 wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:51 am
I really wish the people in charge of the university and the athletic department didn't employ utter shitheads in the past, because that Baylor team was really something special and would've been fun to fully commit to rooting for. That was as declarative a statement as '18 Nova, '09 Carolina, and '06 Florida, in terms of recent beatdowns.
No kidding. That Baylor team was really damn good.

It was crazy that the announcers last night keep going on and on about how great a rebuilding job Drew has done (and he has, no argument), but no mention of what exactly he was rebuilding FROM.

Not to mention all the Art Briles/Ken Starr/Sexual Assault horror show stuff.

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Giff
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Re: 2021 NCAA Tournament

Post by Giff » Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:19 am

I remember all they talked about during UNC's most recent championship was their academic cheating scandal. It completely overshadowed the game and rightfully so!
Muh.

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mister d
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Re: 2021 NCAA Tournament

Post by mister d » Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:39 am

And Villanova with their phone card probation! All three are equally disgusting!
Steve of phpBB wrote:What are they going to do, though. Storm Congress? The Department of Justice building?

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Re: 2021 NCAA Tournament

Post by A_B » Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:46 am

DaveInSeattle wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:15 am
L-Jam3 wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:51 am
I really wish the people in charge of the university and the athletic department didn't employ utter shitheads in the past, because that Baylor team was really something special and would've been fun to fully commit to rooting for. That was as declarative a statement as '18 Nova, '09 Carolina, and '06 Florida, in terms of recent beatdowns.
No kidding. That Baylor team was really damn good.

It was crazy that the announcers last night keep going on and on about how great a rebuilding job Drew has done (and he has, no argument), but no mention of what exactly he was rebuilding FROM.

Not to mention all the Art Briles/Ken Starr/Sexual Assault horror show stuff.
18 years. He's been there 18 years. Is it really a rebuild past 5-6 years? (Which he DID do, but you could say he has underachieved since until now and not be inaccurate.)
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Re: 2021 NCAA Tournament

Post by Rex » Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:10 pm

I’m no Baylor fan but I’m not sure what the point is of dragging something out from almost 20 years ago. The current players were babies then, if that. If Boston College won the title, would it be necessary to mention that they threw games in the 70s?

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Re: 2021 NCAA Tournament

Post by Rex » Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:14 pm

mister d wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:39 am
And Villanova with their phone card probation! All three are equally disgusting!
Virginia had a student-athlete murder a fellow student even more recently than Baylor. It’s hard to find a completely virtuous recent champion other than Duke and Kentucky

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brian
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Re: 2021 NCAA Tournament

Post by brian » Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:22 pm

Fair or not (it's arguable), folks aren't so quick to forgive or forget considering how badly so many Baylor fans showed their asses during the Art Briles fiasco.

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Re: 2021 NCAA Tournament

Post by Reaper » Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:28 pm

mister d wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:39 am
And Villanova with their phone card probation! All three are equally disgusting!
Spoken like a true Hawk alum. Oh, wait. You're an Explorer.
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DaveInSeattle
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Re: 2021 NCAA Tournament

Post by DaveInSeattle » Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:28 pm

Rex wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:10 pm
I’m no Baylor fan but I’m not sure what the point is of dragging something out from almost 20 years ago. The current players were babies then, if that. If Boston College won the title, would it be necessary to mention that they threw games in the 70s?
My comment was just that with Nantz and Rafferty talking about the incredible rebuild Drew did...and how it was the *'most complete rebuidling imaginable', it was strange that they didn't even mention why it had to be a complete rebuild. It was a long time ago...I bet most viewers would have no idea about the Dave Bliss mess.

*not a direct quote..paraphrasing

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Giff
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Re: 2021 NCAA Tournament

Post by Giff » Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:38 pm

brian wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:22 pm
Fair or not (it's arguable), folks aren't so quick to forgive or forget considering how badly so many Baylor fans showed their asses during the Art Briles fiasco.
Then you have schools like LSU whose fans don't even get a chance to show their asses because no one cares when it happens at an actual football school.
Muh.

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mister d
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Re: 2021 NCAA Tournament

Post by mister d » Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:43 pm

I don't know anyone is saying Baylor is a uniquely gross university, but they're absolutely gross a long time ago and a lot less long ago. Just like no one is going to go rah rah Penn State even if its their basketball team instead of their football team winning in 2023. They're all in the bucket of schools that have done horrible things either to advance or protect their athletic programs.
Steve of phpBB wrote:What are they going to do, though. Storm Congress? The Department of Justice building?

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Re: 2021 NCAA Tournament

Post by brian » Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:47 pm

Giff wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:38 pm
brian wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:22 pm
Fair or not (it's arguable), folks aren't so quick to forgive or forget considering how badly so many Baylor fans showed their asses during the Art Briles fiasco.
Then you have schools like LSU whose fans don't even get a chance to show their asses because no one cares when it happens at an actual football school.
I think everyone other than LSU fans hates LSU, so there's not much of a comparison there*. I'm trying to come up with a more apples to apples comparison and not really coming up with much. Baylor's athletic department has been a sinkhole of suck for most of the 21st century (and Ken Starr didn't really help matters any). It's probably true that at this point, the basketball and football programs need to be let out of "jail" (so to speak).

* - That said, when you encounter LSU fans in the wild they're almost all amazingly friendly people. Totally not what you'd expect from an SEC fanbase. I used to look forward to the weekend every year when they had their alumni excursion to downtown Las Vegas because you'd be able to hang out and eat gumbo and drink their beer, no questions asked. I've heard the same thing at LSU tailgates when they're playing a (presumably non-threatening) OOC school. Great people.

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Re: 2021 NCAA Tournament

Post by Nonlinear FC » Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:49 pm

DaveInSeattle wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:28 pm
Rex wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:10 pm
I’m no Baylor fan but I’m not sure what the point is of dragging something out from almost 20 years ago. The current players were babies then, if that. If Boston College won the title, would it be necessary to mention that they threw games in the 70s?
My comment was just that with Nantz and Rafferty talking about the incredible rebuild Drew did...and how it was the *'most complete rebuidling imaginable', it was strange that they didn't even mention why it had to be a complete rebuild. It was a long time ago...I bet most viewers would have no idea about the Dave Bliss mess.

*not a direct quote..paraphrasing
I agree with this, fwiw.

I also have the same issue that AB brings up. Was he just fucking around for 15 years? (not a serious question) If you actually go look at them under Drew, he basically get them above water in 2008. The scandal played out from basically 2003-2007/8 in terms of the murder, the self-imposed sanctions and losing scholarship players for a couple of years.

It's not like they got the death penalty. They went down in scholarships and lost a year of post-season play (maybe 2?)

This turnaround they kept jabbering about is something that happened over 15 years ago. They were talking about it incessantly all tournament. Just blathering on with their talking points.
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Giff
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Re: 2021 NCAA Tournament

Post by Giff » Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:00 pm

They had a half-season suspension (no conference games in 05-06) which is probably one of the harshest in history.

I get the football hate and absolutely agree with it, but the basketball one was not an institutional thing. As soon as Baylor found out about it, they took action. It's not like the entire athletic department was badmouthing the dead athlete.
Muh.

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mister d
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Re: 2021 NCAA Tournament

Post by mister d » Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:26 pm

Can you really separate sports programs under the same university umbrella? Like Penn State, as a whole, sucks for rallying around Paterno. I highly doubt 75% of basketball fans were disgusted or something.
Steve of phpBB wrote:What are they going to do, though. Storm Congress? The Department of Justice building?

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Giff
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Re: 2021 NCAA Tournament

Post by Giff » Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:23 pm

In the Bliss case, yes. In the Briles case, no.

Anyway, I'm going to bow out of this convo. I'm way too emotionally invested in Baylor currently, basketball in particular, because of what my family has gone through the last 11 months. So I'll relish elsewhere this amazing team and what they accomplished.
Muh.

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Re: 2021 NCAA Tournament

Post by Shirley » Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:47 pm

Rex wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:14 pm
mister d wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:39 am
And Villanova with their phone card probation! All three are equally disgusting!
Virginia had a student-athlete murder a fellow student even more recently than Baylor. It’s hard to find a completely virtuous recent champion other than Duke and Kentucky
Dude. The murder of one basketball player by another basketball player wasn't the scandal at Baylor. You realize that, right? It's just what exposed the rot. Bliss was illegally paying the murdered player and when he thought he was gonna be caught (because of the investigation into the murder), he tried to frame the victim as a drug dealer.
Totally Kafkaesque

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Re: 2021 NCAA Tournament

Post by rass » Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:53 pm

ha
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mister d
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Re: 2021 NCAA Tournament

Post by mister d » Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:54 pm

Giff wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:23 pm
Anyway, I'm going to bow out of this convo. I'm way too emotionally invested in Baylor currently, basketball in particular, because of what my family has gone through the last 11 months. So I'll relish elsewhere this amazing team and what they accomplished.
Ah. Congrats to you and yours, then. Just don't pass it on to anyone I wouldn't approve of.
Steve of phpBB wrote:What are they going to do, though. Storm Congress? The Department of Justice building?

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L-Jam3
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Re: 2021 NCAA Tournament

Post by L-Jam3 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:08 pm

Giff wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:23 pm
In the Bliss case, yes. In the Briles case, no.

Anyway, I'm going to bow out of this convo. I'm way too emotionally invested in Baylor currently, basketball in particular, because of what my family has gone through the last 11 months. So I'll relish elsewhere this amazing team and what they accomplished.
I’m happy for the players, and Drew seems like a stand-up guy. And it made one of our guys happy in Giff. And I hope Giff’s dad had the chance to watch it on the biggest screen and the flowing-est beer taps the afterlife has in store.
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Shirley
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Re: 2021 NCAA Tournament

Post by Shirley » Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:06 pm

I guess my one-week Ohio avatar bet has long since expired...
Totally Kafkaesque

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Re: 2021 NCAA Tournament

Post by Sabo » Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:08 am

Shirley wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:06 pm
I guess my one-week Ohio avatar bet has long since expired...
Thanks for honoring the bet by having it up for two weeks-ish.
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Shirley
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Re: 2021 NCAA Tournament

Post by Shirley » Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:05 am

Sabo wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:08 am
Shirley wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:06 pm
I guess my one-week Ohio avatar bet has long since expired...
Thanks for honoring the bet by having it up for two weeks-ish.
In my tribute to UVA in that game, I missed my shot to put it back on time.
Totally Kafkaesque

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