Random Politics

Okay . . . let's try this again.

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Pruitt
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Re: Random Politics

Post by Pruitt » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:14 am

Baloney wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:08 am
Pruitt wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:53 pm
UK government about to collapse.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -charlatan
Boris really is a duplicitious cnut
That whole party is insane.

And Labour is nuts too.
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Re: Random Politics

Post by Johnnie » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:51 pm

Sasha Baron Cohen has already duped Cheney, Palin, Walsh, and now Roy Moore in his new show, Who is America?
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Re: Random Politics

Post by A_B » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:41 pm

Johnnie wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:51 pm
Sasha Baron Cohen has already duped Cheney, Palin, Walsh, and now Roy Moore in his new show, Who is America?
And he’s getting scads of free advertsing.
certainly expansive during tactical areas and specific zones

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Re: Random Politics

Post by mister d » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:54 pm

Its definitely great timing to now totally prank Cheney and the 2008 VP candidate and the guy who lost an election in AL.
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Re: Random Politics

Post by sancarlos » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:00 pm

mister d wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:54 pm
Its definitely great timing to now totally prank Cheney and the 2008 VP candidate and the guy who lost an election in AL.
Funny, that's what I was thinking. Who cares about Cheney nowadays? Go after the guys who are currently burning down the country.
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Re: Random Politics

Post by mister d » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:18 pm

This is going to end up somehow making them look better. Its not going to be a good thing.
bfj wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:07 am
My people call that Kishka.

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Re: Random Politics

Post by Pruitt » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:33 pm

mister d wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:18 pm
This is going to end up somehow making them look better. Its not going to be a good thing.
Nah.

The way to look at satire like this, or the Daily Show, Sam Bee, john oliver etc., etc., is that it is entertainment for a specific audience. Preaching to the choir.

Someone likes Cheney, Palin and others, they will be outraged. Those that hate them may be entertained.
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Re: Random Politics

Post by mister d » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:52 pm

But the coverage puts the wrong targets back into the spotlight. I don't give a shit what happens to Palin right now.
bfj wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:07 am
My people call that Kishka.

ETA - we don't call weird dicks Kishka.

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Re: Random Politics

Post by Pruitt » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:03 pm

mister d wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:52 pm
But the coverage puts the wrong targets back into the spotlight. I don't give a shit what happens to Palin right now.
True. And Palin in particular is such a fame whore (and is so dense) that tricking her is like shooting fish in a barrel.

Still, always fun to see her embarrassed.
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Re: Random Politics

Post by Johnnie » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:22 pm

Add Joe Arpaio to the list.
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Re: Random Politics

Post by Joe K » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:53 pm

I don’t know that people like Cheney and Palin are necessarily the “wrong targets.” Trumpism is a direct outgrowth of Cheney’s cruel belligerence and Palin’s breed of ignorant nationalism. Like the clip that’s been circulating of Cheney happily autographing a “waterboarding kit” is a nice reminder of the unrepentant monstrosity of the Bush administration for those who have been acting like Trump is some type of clean break from our proud tradition of governance.

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Re: Random Politics

Post by rass » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:54 am

Fuck them all. If they're humiliated even for a brief news cycle, go for it because there's currently no other price to pay for being a shitheel. What's the worst that happens? Some dumbfucks commit their savings to a gofundme for the legal defense of Palin or Moore? Fuck them too.
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Re: Random Politics

Post by Steve of phpBB » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:42 am

rass wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:54 am
Fuck them all. If they're humiliated even for a brief news cycle, go for it because there's currently no other price to pay for being a shitheel. What's the worst that happens? Some dumbfucks commit their savings to a gofundme for the legal defense of Palin or Moore? Fuck them too.
I can't remember - is it still okay to just say "this"? Because This.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.

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Re: Random Politics

Post by mister d » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:58 am

Seeing everyone agree like this is making it dusty in here.
bfj wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:07 am
My people call that Kishka.

ETA - we don't call weird dicks Kishka.

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Re: Random Politics

Post by DSafetyGuy » Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:02 am

Good to see the town where I spent my formative years hitting the big time. Take it away, Eli Saslow of the Washington Post...
In the past few months, Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) has carried out the three biggest workplace immigration raids of the past decade, including one on June 5 at a nursery here in rural Ohio, where 114 gardeners, florists and other workers were detained and put into court proceedings for deportation. Many of them had lived for several years in a Norwalk trailer park of 74 homes known as Little Mexico, where now aid workers estimate that more than 90 children are missing one parent and at least 20 are left with no parent at all.

--snip--

On the third night they had tried one more time, and when they were stopped at the door Estefany had lost her patience. “Who benefits from this?” she remembered asking. Was it American taxpayers, who were paying to finance the raid and resulting deportations? Or American workers, most of whom were so disinterested in low-paying farm work that Ohio had announced a crisis work shortage of 15,000 agricultural jobs? Or Corso’s Nursery, a ­family-owned business now missing 40 percent of its employees?
Stick this in your trophy case.

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Re: Random Politics

Post by RSmith » Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:00 pm

Pruitt wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:33 pm
The way to look at satire like this, or the Daily Show, Sam Bee, john oliver etc., etc., is that it is entertainment for a specific audience. Preaching to the choir.
Unlike the others, Sam Bee strikes me as something beyond what can justifiably be called satire. She ventures into the genuinely mean-spirited far, far too often for my taste.

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Re: Random Politics

Post by Ryan » Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:11 pm

Towards shitty people

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Re: Random Politics

Post by Pruitt » Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:25 pm

Ryan wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:11 pm
Towards shitty people
Definitely, but I just don;t find her all that funny. She's expressing the opinions that many of us have, but it's missing the spark of wit.
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Re: Random Politics

Post by RSmith » Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:00 pm

Pruitt wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:25 pm
Ryan wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:11 pm
Towards shitty people
Definitely, but I just don;t find her all that funny. She's expressing the opinions that many of us have, but it's missing the spark of wit.
Exactly! I don't even disagree with her all that much, and she sometimes makes good points that others miss; for instance, she was the only personality (or at least the first) I recall who took that heinous, vapid prat Ashleigh Banfield to task for defending Aziz Ansari and vilifying his accuser. It's not what she says, for me, but how she says it. Whereas Jon Stewart and John Oliver deliver and defend their positions whilst remaining funny and not overly harsh, Bee and Colbert miss that mark by absolute miles, to the point that I find them both completely unwatchable.

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Re: Random Politics

Post by RSmith » Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:16 pm

Ryan wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:11 pm
Towards shitty people
Some times, yes. For instance, you'll not hear me object to anyone being "too rough" on Trump, who is a blithering incompetent bonehead of absolutely historic proportion. But Bee, in particular, is also unnecessarily mean-spirited, to my mind, towards *some* people who have done nothing more than express, in an entirely civil and unobjectionable way, an opinion that happens to be different from hers. And there is absolutely no more "shitty" or objectionable sort of person than one who is intolerant of a legitimate, intellectually honest difference of opinion.

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Re: Random Politics

Post by Joe K » Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:09 pm

Holy crap, watch the video at this link:
https://www.tvguide.com/news/sacha-baro ... VG_Twitter

Cohen pretended to be an Israeli special forces vet and got multiple prominent gun lobbyists and Congressmen to support a program called “Kinderguardians” to arm preschoolers. I don’t care if he’s preaching to the choir, I appreciate him exposing just how sociopathic American gun culture is.

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Re: Random Politics

Post by Pruitt » Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:30 pm

Joe K wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:09 pm
Holy crap, watch the video at this link:
https://www.tvguide.com/news/sacha-baro ... VG_Twitter

Cohen pretended to be an Israeli special forces vet and got multiple prominent gun lobbyists and Congressmen to support a program called “Kinderguardians” to arm preschoolers. I don’t care if he’s preaching to the choir, I appreciate him exposing just how sociopathic American gun culture is.
Ohhhhh.....

Ohhh.....

Ohhhhh....

My God.
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Re: Random Politics

Post by RSmith » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:51 pm

Pruitt wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:30 pm
Joe K wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:09 pm
Holy crap, watch the video at this link:
https://www.tvguide.com/news/sacha-baro ... VG_Twitter

Cohen pretended to be an Israeli special forces vet and got multiple prominent gun lobbyists and Congressmen to support a program called “Kinderguardians” to arm preschoolers. I don’t care if he’s preaching to the choir, I appreciate him exposing just how sociopathic American gun culture is.
Ohhhhh.....

Ohhh.....

Ohhhhh....

My God.
I've got to believed that's out-of-context, or not serious, or doctored somehow. Even the furthest-out gun nuts can't possibly think that is a good or sane idea.

Right? I mean...right?

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Re: Random Politics

Post by EnochRoot » Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:50 am

I think that was the point. Just find one gun nutter/lobbyist whose perspective is warped enough to bite and then you’ll have some vapid, empty suit politicians fall in line. The script they had them read from towards the end basically begged to be revealed as a joke, too.

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Re: Random Politics

Post by Joe K » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:46 am

EnochRoot wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:50 am
I think that was the point. Just find one gun nutter/lobbyist whose perspective is warped enough to bite and then you’ll have some vapid, empty suit politicians fall in line. The script they had them read from towards the end basically begged to be revealed as a joke, too.
Bush propagandist turned “Resistance” pundit David Frum checks in with an awful take attempting to justify their statements:



The idea of David Frum criticizing anyone for doing anything under false pretenses is rich. And I hate to break it to him, but the fact that the GOP loves the Israeli Right-Wing so much that they’ll support monstrous ideas if they think that’s the source is not exactly exonerating.

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Re: Random Politics

Post by RSmith » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:52 am

Joe K wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:46 am
EnochRoot wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:50 am
I think that was the point. Just find one gun nutter/lobbyist whose perspective is warped enough to bite and then you’ll have some vapid, empty suit politicians fall in line. The script they had them read from towards the end basically begged to be revealed as a joke, too.
Bush propagandist turned “Resistance” pundit David Frum checks in with an awful take attempting to justify their statements:



The idea of David Frum criticizing anyone for doing anything under false pretenses is rich. And I hate to break it to him, but the fact that the GOP loves the Israeli Right-Wing so much that they’ll support monstrous ideas if they think that’s the source is not exactly exonerating.
I agree, that's nonsense. However, I do think that what Cohen is doing might be more than a bit disingenuous, too. From what Walsh says in the article, it sounds like he's slipping one crazy notion into a long diatribe, and then beating people over the head when they don't catch it. In general, I completely detest "gotcha" tactics, and I can't believe that any of these people are crackers enough to support such an idiotic notion if they were clearly and directly asked. It just defies credulity...

ETA: Well, the notions of the NRA folks are mostly objectively crazy, of course. What I should have said was "one non-mainstream crazy notion"...
Last edited by RSmith on Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Random Politics

Post by Pruitt » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:00 am

Joe K wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:46 am
EnochRoot wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:50 am
I think that was the point. Just find one gun nutter/lobbyist whose perspective is warped enough to bite and then you’ll have some vapid, empty suit politicians fall in line. The script they had them read from towards the end basically begged to be revealed as a joke, too.
Bush propagandist turned “Resistance” pundit David Frum checks in with an awful take attempting to justify their statements:



The idea of David Frum criticizing anyone for doing anything under false pretenses is rich. And I hate to break it to him, but the fact that the GOP loves the Israeli Right-Wing so much that they’ll support monstrous ideas if they think that’s the source is not exactly exonerating.
Agree 100%. A bit surprising to see the self-styled voice of Conservative reason go after a comedian for proving how venal other Conservatives are.

What might have happened is that Cohen brought in a lobbyist (the guy who laughed at the rape joke) to tell these idiots like Rohrbacher what to do, so they read the insane copy that was put in front of them. The way the gun piece was set up was brilliant - you had that first Congressman look at him in disbelief and say that Members of Congress simply don't blindly back ideas without looking in to them. And then Trent Lott and others simply read the nonsense.

To me, that is the brilliance of the piece. It's one thing to get a lunatic like the guy holding the kiddie guns to do anything on camera. it's quite another to get influential lawmakers espousing insane ideas because some lobbyist told them that they should.
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Re: Random Politics

Post by Johnnie » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:13 am

There was a throwaway line about "you can't rape your wife" just randomly added to the fake interview.

It was chuckled at heartily.

So yes, this is how these people think. And if Joe Walsh wants to cop out to being duped, he still fucking said what he said and at no point did he or any of the other interviewees pause look quizzically at the character and go 'is this a joke?'

Stop finding excuses. These people are diseased.
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Re: Random Politics

Post by Johnnie » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:37 am

And one other thing..... These interviews didn't happen yesterday. So they, at any time under the excuse of feeling they were duped, could have said anything and not only conjured support for themselves, but also hit Cohen's credibility.

No one said anything until after it's discovered to be a ruse.

So yea. They can fucking wallow in it.
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Re: Random Politics

Post by RSmith » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:53 am

Johnnie wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:13 am
So yes, this is how these people think. And if Joe Walsh wants to cop out to being duped, he still fucking said what he said and at no point did he or any of the other interviewees pause look quizzically at the character and go 'is this a joke?'
If your point is that people need to pay closer attention to what they are saying/being asked, fair enough. But personally, I have no interest whatever in seeing people being tricked into agreeing with something crazy or abhorrent that an "interviewer" bloody well knows they would not agree with (if only for appearances) if asked clearly. That is not informative or meaningful; it is a disingenuous person hunting for a gotcha.

To me, that proves absolutely nothing, regardless of whether I agree or disagree with the interviewee. As far as I'm concerned, it only exposes bias and dishonesty on the part of the interviewer. Again, I entirely agree with Cohen's underlying point (that gun nuts are...nuts), but I think that the way he tries to make that point is ill-advised and counterproductive as far as convincing the people who still actually need convincing.

This sort of rubbish, and the related latenight blathering, is one reason why America has such trouble sustaining any sort of *civil* political discourse anymore. Of course, the orange retard on the other side is even more to blame, but maybe try not to shoot yourselves in the foot by helping him out...

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Re: Random Politics

Post by Gunpowder » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:01 am

Yeah that strategy of being nice to the GOP fringe has worked out swimmingly thusfar.

These people have no interest whatsoever in civility.
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Re: Random Politics

Post by RSmith » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:03 am

Gunpowder wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:01 am
Yeah that strategy of being nice to the GOP fringe has worked out swimmingly thusfar.

These people have no interest whatsoever in civility.
Maybe that's something I just don't get about American politics, then. To me, civility is not a burden; I would not consider voting for anyone who did not display it, which is why I loathed that prat Harper (though I can't stand Trudeau either; I was really hoping for Mulcair).

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Re: Random Politics

Post by Gunpowder » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:09 am

You'd think so but if the last decade has shown that it just isn't gonna work right now, at least in the US. I tried it for a bit after Trump was elected and it was clearly not a good option.
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Re: Random Politics

Post by RSmith » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:09 am

Gunpowder wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:09 am
You'd think so but if the last decade has shown that it just isn't gonna work right now, at least in the US. I tried it for a bit after Trump was elected and it was clearly not a good option.
I do not envy you folks down there at this time.

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Re: Random Politics

Post by Joe K » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:11 am

I also think there’s a big difference in the societal value of what Cohen does based on whether he’s “punching up” or “punching down.”* These people have a lot of political power and influence: the views they hold, but might not say publicly, are a lot more consequential than yours or mine.

*He can still be really funny when duping regular people, it’s just harder to find meaning in Borat doing outrageous shit.

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Re: Random Politics

Post by RSmith » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:21 am

Joe K wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:11 am
I also think there’s a big difference in the societal value of what Cohen does based on whether he’s “punching up” or “punching down.”* These people have a lot of political power and influence: the views they hold, but might not say publicly, are a lot more consequential than yours or mine.

*He can still be really funny when duping regular people, it’s just harder to find meaning in Borat doing outrageous shit.
That's fair too, and if I were convinced that he was actually getting at the legitimate, deep-down views of his subjects, I would be substantially less critical. However, I can't count the number of times that I personally have, in conversation, "nodded along" over one anomalous, crazy point that I in no way agreed with, because I was more concerned with the larger idea, and I suspect that may be what was really happening here. You can certainly say that the subjects should have been more careful, and certainly I would disagree with the larger idea here as well, I just think there's a danger of it being somewhat disingenuous to hold the subjects to the "crazy throwaway".

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Re: Random Politics

Post by bfj » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:21 am

RSmith wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:03 am
Gunpowder wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:01 am
Yeah that strategy of being nice to the GOP fringe has worked out swimmingly thusfar.

These people have no interest whatsoever in civility.
Maybe that's something I just don't get about American politics, then. To me, civility is not a burden; I would not consider voting for anyone who did not display it, which is why I loathed that prat Harper (though I can't stand Trudeau either; I was really hoping for Mulcair).
If you believe in civility, but use the word retard is that ironic?
Enjoy every sandwich.

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Re: Random Politics

Post by RSmith » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:23 am

bfj wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:21 am
RSmith wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:03 am
Gunpowder wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:01 am
Yeah that strategy of being nice to the GOP fringe has worked out swimmingly thusfar.

These people have no interest whatsoever in civility.
Maybe that's something I just don't get about American politics, then. To me, civility is not a burden; I would not consider voting for anyone who did not display it, which is why I loathed that prat Harper (though I can't stand Trudeau either; I was really hoping for Mulcair).
If you believe in civility, but use the word retard is that ironic?
Depends on context. In that context, no.

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Re: Random Politics

Post by bfj » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:24 am

RSmith wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:23 am
bfj wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:21 am
RSmith wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:03 am
Gunpowder wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:01 am
Yeah that strategy of being nice to the GOP fringe has worked out swimmingly thusfar.

These people have no interest whatsoever in civility.
Maybe that's something I just don't get about American politics, then. To me, civility is not a burden; I would not consider voting for anyone who did not display it, which is why I loathed that prat Harper (though I can't stand Trudeau either; I was really hoping for Mulcair).
If you believe in civility, but use the word retard is that ironic?
Depends on context. In that context, no.
You should work on eliminating that word from your vocabulary.
Enjoy every sandwich.

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Re: Random Politics

Post by RSmith » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:28 am

bfj wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:24 am
RSmith wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:23 am
bfj wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:21 am
RSmith wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:03 am
Gunpowder wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:01 am
Yeah that strategy of being nice to the GOP fringe has worked out swimmingly thusfar.

These people have no interest whatsoever in civility.
Maybe that's something I just don't get about American politics, then. To me, civility is not a burden; I would not consider voting for anyone who did not display it, which is why I loathed that prat Harper (though I can't stand Trudeau either; I was really hoping for Mulcair).
If you believe in civility, but use the word retard is that ironic?
Depends on context. In that context, no.
You should work on eliminating that word from your vocabulary.
I do not believe in eliminating words. It is the height of laziness to try to censor certain vocabulary in *all* situations, because it may be offensive in *specific* situations. I highly doubt that you're offended on behalf of President Trump, here.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but there is IMO a terrifyingly short path from considering words streng verboten, and holding a book burning in the town square. It is an unacceptable censorship.

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