Random Politics

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mister d
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Re: Random Politics

Post by mister d » Tue May 05, 2020 10:38 am

I had to look it up, but I'm the opposite which means I apparently view things through a (copy/paste) deontological lens. Trump is apathetic at best, intentional at worst about the death he's causing right now and would double it for personal gain. He'd nuke a country tomorrow if it made his dick a quarter inch bigger. GW would have lumbered through life without a single confirmed kill if not for his father's prominence propping him up to global useful idiot status for people like Cheney/Rove to manipulate.
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Re: Random Politics

Post by Joe K » Tue May 05, 2020 11:07 am

mister d wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 10:38 am
I had to look it up, but I'm the opposite which means I apparently view things through a (copy/paste) deontological lens. Trump is apathetic at best, intentional at worst about the death he's causing right now and would double it for personal gain. He'd nuke a country tomorrow if it made his dick a quarter inch bigger. GW would have lumbered through life without a single confirmed kill if not for his father's prominence propping him up to global useful idiot status for people like Cheney/Rove to manipulate.
You're probably right about the motives, and I haven't seen the word "deontological" since I tried to get into philosophy almost 20 years ago. But I ultimately think that results are what's most important for political figures. Even if FDR were an absolutely terrible person in his personal life, he'd still be by far the best US president of the 20th-21st Century. And Bush has gotta be the worst (or, at best, second worst to Nixon) of the past 100 years even though everyone seems to think he's a personable and likeable guy when you meet him.

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Re: Random Politics

Post by Johnnie » Tue May 05, 2020 11:18 am

He flirted with Michelle Obama at a funeral! He's a sweetie!
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Re: Random Politics

Post by sancarlos » Tue May 05, 2020 11:20 am

mister d wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 10:38 am
I had to look it up, but I'm the opposite which means I apparently view things through a (copy/paste) deontological lens. Trump is apathetic at best, intentional at worst about the death he's causing right now and would double it for personal gain. He'd nuke a country tomorrow if it made his dick a quarter inch bigger. GW would have lumbered through life without a single confirmed kill if not for his father's prominence propping him up to global useful idiot status for people like Cheney/Rove to manipulate.
I think this is spot on.
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Re: Random Politics

Post by Johnnie » Fri May 15, 2020 4:17 pm

Today I voted in my state's primary from a deployed location by email.

When do I go to prison?
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Re: Random Politics

Post by cerrano » Fri May 15, 2020 6:59 pm

Joe K wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 11:07 am
mister d wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 10:38 am
I had to look it up, but I'm the opposite which means I apparently view things through a (copy/paste) deontological lens. Trump is apathetic at best, intentional at worst about the death he's causing right now and would double it for personal gain. He'd nuke a country tomorrow if it made his dick a quarter inch bigger. GW would have lumbered through life without a single confirmed kill if not for his father's prominence propping him up to global useful idiot status for people like Cheney/Rove to manipulate.
You're probably right about the motives, and I haven't seen the word "deontological" since I tried to get into philosophy almost 20 years ago. But I ultimately think that results are what's most important for political figures. Even if FDR were an absolutely terrible person in his personal life, he'd still be by far the best US president of the 20th-21st Century. And Bush has gotta be the worst (or, at best, second worst to Nixon) of the past 100 years even though everyone seems to think he's a personable and likeable guy when you meet him.
Results? We’re heading into the 2nd Great Depression with 9/11’s every 3 or 4 days, and total destruction of America’s standing in the world far beyond what GWB ever wrought, and you still think Trump has a chance to be regarded as the President who wasn’t worse than Buchanan and 43 others? Am I missing something?
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Re: Random Politics

Post by Joe K » Fri May 15, 2020 8:47 pm

cerrano wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 6:59 pm
Joe K wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 11:07 am
mister d wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 10:38 am
I had to look it up, but I'm the opposite which means I apparently view things through a (copy/paste) deontological lens. Trump is apathetic at best, intentional at worst about the death he's causing right now and would double it for personal gain. He'd nuke a country tomorrow if it made his dick a quarter inch bigger. GW would have lumbered through life without a single confirmed kill if not for his father's prominence propping him up to global useful idiot status for people like Cheney/Rove to manipulate.
You're probably right about the motives, and I haven't seen the word "deontological" since I tried to get into philosophy almost 20 years ago. But I ultimately think that results are what's most important for political figures. Even if FDR were an absolutely terrible person in his personal life, he'd still be by far the best US president of the 20th-21st Century. And Bush has gotta be the worst (or, at best, second worst to Nixon) of the past 100 years even though everyone seems to think he's a personable and likeable guy when you meet him.
Results? We’re heading into the 2nd Great Depression with 9/11’s every 3 or 4 days, and total destruction of America’s standing in the world far beyond what GWB ever wrought, and you still think Trump has a chance to be regarded as the President who wasn’t worse than Buchanan and 43 others? Am I missing something?
The Iraq War. Specifically, it’s toll on the Iraqi people in terms of death and displacement.

ETA: And re: Nixon, the death and suffering he caused throughout SE Asia. It’s not just American lives that matter in the moral calculus of our politicians.

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Re: Random Politics

Post by cerrano » Fri May 15, 2020 9:07 pm

Joe K wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 8:47 pm
cerrano wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 6:59 pm
Joe K wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 11:07 am
mister d wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 10:38 am
I had to look it up, but I'm the opposite which means I apparently view things through a (copy/paste) deontological lens. Trump is apathetic at best, intentional at worst about the death he's causing right now and would double it for personal gain. He'd nuke a country tomorrow if it made his dick a quarter inch bigger. GW would have lumbered through life without a single confirmed kill if not for his father's prominence propping him up to global useful idiot status for people like Cheney/Rove to manipulate.
You're probably right about the motives, and I haven't seen the word "deontological" since I tried to get into philosophy almost 20 years ago. But I ultimately think that results are what's most important for political figures. Even if FDR were an absolutely terrible person in his personal life, he'd still be by far the best US president of the 20th-21st Century. And Bush has gotta be the worst (or, at best, second worst to Nixon) of the past 100 years even though everyone seems to think he's a personable and likeable guy when you meet him.
Results? We’re heading into the 2nd Great Depression with 9/11’s every 3 or 4 days, and total destruction of America’s standing in the world far beyond what GWB ever wrought, and you still think Trump has a chance to be regarded as the President who wasn’t worse than Buchanan and 43 others? Am I missing something?
The Iraq War. Specifically, it’s toll on the Iraqi people in terms of death and displacement.

ETA: And re: Nixon, the death and suffering he caused throughout SE Asia. It’s not just American lives that matter in the moral calculus of our politicians.
Trust me, I’m a Bartletista, so my calculus does take into account lives of people who weren’t born fair haired and skinned. I’m thinking of Syrian lives and culture casually tossed aside to please an increasingly fascist Turkish state, and the lives and families of Central Americans who are trying to enter the US legally.

While the endless war on terror’s seismic displacement of Iraqis and Kurds and others around the Middle East and SW Asia is undoubtedly one of the black marks on our history, the gleeful annihilation of even the appearance of the rule of law, in service to lecherous, syphilitic, racist who openly harbors full-on incest fantasies will be the way I measure his howler of a presidency, because the wounds Trump is inflicting on our body politic May be acutely fatal.
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Re: Random Politics

Post by Joe K » Fri May 15, 2020 9:19 pm

Bush wasn’t exactly a modern day Hammurabi when it comes to respecting the rule of law. He fired a bunch of US Attorneys for political reasons, made Alberto Gonzalez USAG, tried to put Harriet Miers on the Supreme Court and unleashed a global torture regime in violation of US and international law. And the amount of unnecessary suffering unleashed by his flat out criminal war in Iraq, and incompetently run war in Afghanistan, pretty clearly surpasses the human toll of Trump’s bad policies.

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Re: Random Politics

Post by cerrano » Fri May 15, 2020 9:42 pm

Joe K wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 9:19 pm
Bush wasn’t exactly a modern day Hammurabi when it comes to respecting the rule of law. He fired a bunch of US Attorneys for political reasons
Ahem, Preet Bahrara, and a slew of others including Sally Yates. ETA: Actually, the reasons were more corrupt as many have noted that these offices were iNvestigating the president’s criminal wrongdoing (or wrongdoing by his appointees).
Joe K wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 9:19 pm
Alberto Gonzalez USAG, tried to put Harriet Miers on the Supreme Court


Associate Justice “Boof” Kavanaugh
Joe K wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 9:19 pm
...and unleashed a global torture regime in violation of US and international law.
A policy Trump openly registers his lust for anytime he’s asked.
Joe K wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 9:19 pm
And the amount of unnecessary suffering unleashed by his flat out criminal war in Iraq, and incompetently run war in Afghanistan, pretty clearly surpasses the human toll of Trump’s bad policies.
Trunp isnothing if not efficient in his calculus when in comes to how human life should be valued, and it’s clear in his social safety net policies, his rollback of Obama-era regulations, and his complete failure to empathy for the over 80,000 Americans who ha lost their lives. These all point to the distinct possibility That enough Americans will either die or be displaced to rival some of the hardships that Iraqis experienced at our hands. While
One was to avenge daddy, the other approach is please fascist dictators for the sake of his own vanity. If forced to choose Inigo Montoya over the shady deeds of an orange Caligula, I’ll take that highly focused Spaniard every damn day of the week and twice on Sunday.
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Re: Random Politics

Post by EdRomero » Fri May 15, 2020 9:49 pm

I'm still watching the American Experience doc on W and most of the history they show are interviews form his former associates talking about a talented, charismatic guy, not ready for foreign affairs, being guided by 2 awful people, Rumsfield and Cheney, and stupid Bush following along with whatever they said. Maybe that's a positive for Trump, that he didn't bring in shitheads like that to fuck everything up. Another negative for W compared to Trump is his religion and idealism; Bush thought with God behind his back, he's fixing the world. Trump doesn't give a shit and every decision is based on what helps him, which probably helped the US avoid some war escalations. This was working to make him a slightly better president than W..until the pandemic came. Now we're seeing where basic competence and an ounce of compassion would help so much, and Trump is such a fuckup, he can't even manage that. This pandemic is the Trump presidency and how he will forever be judged (unless he finds a new way to fuck things up even more)

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Re: Random Politics

Post by Steve of phpBB » Sat May 16, 2020 12:39 pm

EdRomero wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 9:49 pm
Maybe that's a positive for Trump, that he didn't bring in shitheads like that to fuck everything up.
Trump hired John Bolton, one of the worst fuckups behind the Iraq War. But Trump has such an ego that he can't stand back and let anyone else do their jobs, even the terrible people like Bolton and Sessions.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.

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Re: Random Politics

Post by Johnnie » Sun May 17, 2020 1:43 pm

Holy crap. What a tweet.



I bet Ron Burgundy is impressed.
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Re: Random Politics

Post by P.D.X. » Mon May 18, 2020 10:21 am

Great slogan.

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Re: Random Politics

Post by brian » Tue May 19, 2020 10:47 am

McSally down 13 points (!) to Mark Kelly in AZ Republic poll.

This is indicative of the larger trend which is that suburban and even exurban areas that were previously solid, solid Republican are running away from the GOP. Phoenix is essentially just one big suburb, so I would think Donald Trump would be in huge trouble there this year.
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Re: Random Politics

Post by Johnnie » Tue May 19, 2020 11:18 am

Damn. It was just a month or so ago (I think) where this was only 8 points.

McSally is fucking hated there. Despite being a retired full bird Colonel with combat bonafides as a woman, her appointment after losing to Kyrsten Sinema to McCain's seat was typical Arizona politics. Everyone seems to have scoffed at this if the polls hold through the summer. It feels like the white people in that state are sick of Trump.

Arizonans seem to be getting bluer overall despite the red state nature of everything there.
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Re: Random Politics

Post by A_B » Tue May 19, 2020 11:21 am

Johnnie wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 11:18 am
Damn. It was just a month or so ago (I think) where this was only 8 points.

McSally is fucking hated there. Despite being a retired full bird Colonel with combat bonafides as a woman, her appointment after losing to Kyrsten Sinema to McCain's seat was typical Arizona politics. Everyone seems to have scoffed at this if the polls hold through the summer. It feels like the white people in that state are sick of Trump.

Arizonans seem to be getting bluer overall despite the red state nature of everything there.
Of all the politiians I've met over the past few years, she was the nicest. Honest in her answers and didn't seem to be faking it either. And honestly didn't seem like she was a dyed in the wool republican at all. Had a couple of interesting points about immigration and minorities that don't seem to jibe with the far right. (These are probably because as a Border state it's easier to realize that it isn't just BUILD THE WALL)

ETA: I also don't know how much she has changed her public platform since I met her, which was in the buildup to the SInema race.
Last edited by A_B on Tue May 19, 2020 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Random Politics

Post by brian » Tue May 19, 2020 11:27 am

Johnnie wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 11:18 am
Damn. It was just a month or so ago (I think) where this was only 8 points.

McSally is fucking hated there. Despite being a retired full bird Colonel with combat bonafides as a woman, her appointment after losing to Kyrsten Sinema to McCain's seat was typical Arizona politics. Everyone seems to have scoffed at this if the polls hold through the summer. It feels like the white people in that state are sick of Trump.

Arizonans seem to be getting bluer overall despite the red state nature of everything there.
Yeah, I don't know how blue it would be against a more reasonable Republican in a future election, but you can pretty much look at say about 8 to 10 counties around the country (Maricopa, AZ; Oakland and Macomb, MI; Washoe, NV; Orange, CA; Cobb, GA; Nassau, NY, etc.) where the GOP was dominant since the 80s (if not since even before then) that have basically fled the GOP and Trump, which helped lead to the House wipeout in 2018 and which will play a big role in the next election as well. They are mostly educated, but diverse and I think it's mostly for that reason that they're rejecting Trump. If you live with African-Americans, Latinos, Asians, work with them and have them as friends and see those groups being demonized by Trump, most reasonable, educated people will reject that. (This is another reason why I don't think it's necessarily unfair to paint Trump supporters as largely uneducated.)
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Re: Random Politics

Post by Steve of phpBB » Tue May 19, 2020 11:34 am

brian wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 11:27 am
Yeah, I don't know how blue it would be against a more reasonable Republican in a future election, but you can pretty much look at say about 8 to 10 counties around the country (Maricopa, AZ; Oakland and Macomb, MI; Washoe, NV; Orange, CA; Cobb, GA; Nassau, NY, etc.) where the GOP was dominant since the 80s (if not since even before then) that have basically fled the GOP and Trump, which helped lead to the House wipeout in 2018 and which will play a big role in the next election as well. They are mostly educated, but diverse and I think it's mostly for that reason that they're rejecting Trump.
I don't know if they have exactly "fled" Trump. The Dems won a lot of close elections in those areas (at least in Orange County), and then lost the special election to replace Katie Hill.

These are the people I have in mind when I fear the potential consequences if Dems explicitly adopted a "raise everyone's taxes to fund better services" platform.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.

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Re: Random Politics

Post by Nonlinear FC » Tue May 19, 2020 11:37 am

brian wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 11:27 am
Johnnie wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 11:18 am
Damn. It was just a month or so ago (I think) where this was only 8 points.

McSally is fucking hated there. Despite being a retired full bird Colonel with combat bonafides as a woman, her appointment after losing to Kyrsten Sinema to McCain's seat was typical Arizona politics. Everyone seems to have scoffed at this if the polls hold through the summer. It feels like the white people in that state are sick of Trump.

Arizonans seem to be getting bluer overall despite the red state nature of everything there.
Yeah, I don't know how blue it would be against a more reasonable Republican in a future election, but you can pretty much look at say about 8 to 10 counties around the country (Maricopa, AZ; Oakland and Macomb, MI; Washoe, NV; Orange, CA; Cobb, GA; Nassau, NY, etc.) where the GOP was dominant since the 80s (if not since even before then) that have basically fled the GOP and Trump, which helped lead to the House wipeout in 2018 and which will play a big role in the next election as well. They are mostly educated, but diverse and I think it's mostly for that reason that they're rejecting Trump. If you live with African-Americans, Latinos, Asians, work with them and have them as friends and see those groups being demonized by Trump, most reasonable, educated people will reject that. (This is another reason why I don't think it's necessarily unfair to paint Trump supporters as largely uneducated.)
There are some important key counties in PA, outside of Philly that went blue for the first time in forever. I'd like to see poll numbers there, as well.
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Re: Random Politics

Post by brian » Tue May 19, 2020 11:38 am

If you've got a Democrat up 18 points in Maricopa County, I'd say "fled" is an OK verb. But I understand what you're saying. Fortunately, I don't think any mainstream Dems have ever floated a proposal to raise everyone's taxes. The lowest threshold I've ever seen for a tax hike proposal was $250K. That might cost votes from some suburban swing voters, but probably not in an election with Trump on the ballot.
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Re: Random Politics

Post by Johnnie » Tue May 19, 2020 12:01 pm

Oh, and the subtle thing in all of this: The Lincoln Project is doing fucking work right now.

ETA:

Last edited by Johnnie on Tue May 19, 2020 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Random Politics

Post by Steve of phpBB » Tue May 19, 2020 12:13 pm

brian wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 11:38 am
If you've got a Democrat up 18 points in Maricopa County, I'd say "fled" is an OK verb. But I understand what you're saying. Fortunately, I don't think any mainstream Dems have ever floated a proposal to raise everyone's taxes. The lowest threshold I've ever seen for a tax hike proposal was $250K. That might cost votes from some suburban swing voters, but probably not in an election with Trump on the ballot.
Sure. But most races aren't heroic studly Dem astronaut vs especially hated Republican.
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Re: Random Politics

Post by govmentchedda » Tue May 19, 2020 12:19 pm

Mark Kelly isn't your average Dem.
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Re: Random Politics

Post by brian » Tue May 19, 2020 12:22 pm

Granted, but I spend enough time in AZ and know enough people there (as does Johnnie, obvs) to know that is just the tip of the iceberg. Trump is unpopular in Maricopa as well (relative to an average Republican from the last few elections) and Arizona is going to be a tough win for Trump in 2020. If they're spending money having to defend Georgia, Texas, Arizona, North Carolina, etc. then they're in trouble. Biden only needs to flip PA and MI from the 2016 map to win the election.
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Re: Random Politics

Post by brian » Tue May 19, 2020 12:33 pm

(FWIW, Biden is up 7 points in AZ in the latest polls I've seen there.)
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Re: Random Politics

Post by Johnnie » Tue May 19, 2020 12:43 pm

Just reading more, this McSally seat is up again in 2022. So there's some idea that Ducey did this to run for the seat himself at that time. Time will tell, I guess.
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Re: Random Politics

Post by Steve of phpBB » Tue May 19, 2020 12:56 pm

brian wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 12:22 pm
Granted, but I spend enough time in AZ and know enough people there (as does Johnnie, obvs) to know that is just the tip of the iceberg. Trump is unpopular in Maricopa as well (relative to an average Republican from the last few elections) and Arizona is going to be a tough win for Trump in 2020. If they're spending money having to defend Georgia, Texas, Arizona, North Carolina, etc. then they're in trouble. Biden only needs to flip PA and MI from the 2016 map to win the election.
I figure Arizona will be a battleground this time around. I've been considering moving down to AZ for a couple of weeks before the election to volunteer for Kelly and/or Biden.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.

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Re: Random Politics

Post by DaveInSeattle » Thu May 21, 2020 3:16 pm

Between Don Jr's book and this one, there's gotta be a bunch of warehouses full of these things somewhere:


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Re: Random Politics

Post by Johnnie » Thu May 21, 2020 3:19 pm

Good. Fuck that guy.
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Re: Random Politics

Post by DSafetyGuy » Thu May 21, 2020 3:33 pm

That facial expression looks like he knows he's full of shit, but I think we all know he lacks ample self-awareness.
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Re: Random Politics

Post by The Sybian » Thu May 21, 2020 3:35 pm

DaveInSeattle wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 3:16 pm
Between Don Jr's book and this one, there's gotta be a bunch of warehouses full of these things somewhere:

They often give away books at rallies and events to get rid of them. They buy huge numbers of books so they can get the books on the NYTimes Best Seller list and make them appear like they hold popularly held beliefs. Probably makes it so libraries have to buy more, too.
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Re: Random Politics

Post by DaveInSeattle » Fri May 22, 2020 11:59 am

Lindsey Graham...in his own words.

'

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Re: Random Politics

Post by The Sybian » Fri May 22, 2020 12:05 pm

I'd love to sit with 2015 Graham and see his reaction to the 2018-2020 clips.
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Re: Random Politics

Post by Giff » Fri May 22, 2020 12:13 pm

The Sybian wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 12:05 pm
I'd love to sit with 2015 Graham and see his reaction to the 2018-2020 clips.
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Re: Random Politics

Post by Johnnie » Fri May 29, 2020 4:19 pm

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The Sybian
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Re: Random Politics

Post by The Sybian » Fri May 29, 2020 4:31 pm

Johnnie wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 4:19 pm
That's a nice message, but nobody will take the narrator seriously with that accent.
An honest to God cult of personality - formed around a failed steak salesman.
-Pruitt

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A_B
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Re: Random Politics

Post by A_B » Fri May 29, 2020 4:43 pm

The Sybian wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 4:31 pm
Johnnie wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 4:19 pm
That's a nice message, but nobody will take the narrator seriously with that accent.
Hey!

(I actually thought it was a bit much)
Duke's working the knob! Flush it all

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A_B
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Re: Random Politics

Post by A_B » Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:52 am

Steve King loses his primary.
Duke's working the knob! Flush it all

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brian
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Re: Random Politics

Post by brian » Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:46 am

I was gloating about that so much on Twitter I forgot to gloat about it here.
Image

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