Rants 2?

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HDO45331
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Rants 2?

Post by HDO45331 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:19 pm

I purchased a 2009 Enclave a couple of weeks ago. The former owners had XM radio, and I was able to use it for a couple of days, while I test-drove. I thought it would be nice for NFL season, and while we are driving to & from New Orleans in a couple of weeks. When we purchased the vehicle, the name on the title changed, and XM was removed.

Yesterday, I decided to try the 2-month free trial, with a $7.51 upgrade to premium. However, after 5 phone calls, one unfulfilled promise to get the top-level customer service people to call back, and about 4 hours of cooling my heels in the car, I still do not have XM. I do have a red ass. The idiots cannot seem to connect the radio.

I would like to remove the radio, and stick it up someone's ass in the Philippines.
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by Keg » Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:33 am

I would ask for a discount next time you get them on the phone. I always ask for a discount when I am slightly inconvinienced and you'd be surprised how often it works.

I recently bought a new washer/dryer which I wanted to stack on top of each other to save space in my garage. They forgot to sell me the stacking kit, so I had to go back to the store. I asked if I can get a discount for making me come back to the store and they ended up giving me the kit for free.
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by Scottie » Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:58 am

Keg wrote:I would ask for a discount next time you get them on the phone. I always ask for a discount when I am slightly inconvinienced and you'd be surprised how often it works.
Yep. Or a credit. Recently changed cable providers; they installed a dodgy HD box that was pixelating the picture constantly. Tech had to come back (four days later) to replace it with a new one. Got on the phone with the provider, told them I wasn't interested in paying for a service that I wasn't getting. They gave me a month's worth of credit on my account. Never bitched to them, never flipped out, just calmly told them I wasn't impressed. And, voila. They gave me September for free and tossed in a $50 credit for October and a half dozen freebie pay-per-view movies that I'll likely never watch.

One thing that seems to work quite well with customer service agents, given that they are trained heavily in customer retention, is the mere mention of switching to a competitor. I told the CSR that I still had the equipment from my previous provider and it was simple enough for me to hook it up and call them; they'd reactivate my old account in a heartbeat. And justlikethat she started hauling out the credits. They really would rather make the absolute minimum off of you than have you paying full bills to a competitor.
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by cerrano » Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:40 pm

Scottie wrote:
Keg wrote:I would ask for a discount next time you get them on the phone. I always ask for a discount when I am slightly inconvinienced and you'd be surprised how often it works.
Yep. Or a credit. Recently changed cable providers; they installed a dodgy HD box that was pixelating the picture constantly. Tech had to come back (four days later) to replace it with a new one. Got on the phone with the provider, told them I wasn't interested in paying for a service that I wasn't getting. They gave me a month's worth of credit on my account. Never bitched to them, never flipped out, just calmly told them I wasn't impressed. And, voila. They gave me September for free and tossed in a $50 credit for October and a half dozen freebie pay-per-view movies that I'll likely never watch.

One thing that seems to work quite well with customer service agents, given that they are trained heavily in customer retention, is the mere mention of switching to a competitor. I told the CSR that I still had the equipment from my previous provider and it was simple enough for me to hook it up and call them; they'd reactivate my old account in a heartbeat. And justlikethat she started hauling out the credits. They really would rather make the absolute minimum off of you than have you paying full bills to a competitor.
Did that with fios 2 weeks ago and got $50/mo off my bill with an upgrade to my Internet speeds and everything else the same. (Did have to sign a new two year deal, though, but I wasn't planning to go anywhere anyway.) I just made sure I had numbers ready from Comcast to throw at the guy when he asked why I wanted to switch.
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by HDO45331 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:15 pm

HDO45331 wrote:I purchased a 2009 Enclave a couple of weeks ago. The former owners had XM radio, and I was able to use it for a couple of days, while I test-drove. I thought it would be nice for NFL season, and while we are driving to & from New Orleans in a couple of weeks. When we purchased the vehicle, the name on the title changed, and XM was removed.

Yesterday, I decided to try the 2-month free trial, with a $7.51 upgrade to premium. However, after 5 phone calls, one unfulfilled promise to get the top-level customer service people to call back, and about 4 hours of cooling my heels in the car, I still do not have XM. I do have a red ass. The idiots cannot seem to connect the radio.

I would like to remove the radio, and stick it up someone's ass in the Philippines.
Up to nine calls (6 by me, and 3 by the dealer) with no luck.

The only success I had was when they took my CC for billing. That was accomplished without a hitch.

Bastards.
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by bfj » Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:37 pm

Why I Won't Be Returning To Walt Disney World.

Thus makes our annual trip impossible. Their suggested fix will not work for my son. This is all due to the way some people abused Disney's hospitality to their guests with disabilities. It irks me that kids like my Max are being lumped in with those who use wheelchairs or Rascals. It's like comparing apples to things that aren't apples.
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by govmentchedda » Sat Sep 28, 2013 2:44 pm

I read that story earlier this week and thought of you, BFJ. Sorry to hear it.
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by Shirley » Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:56 pm

bfj wrote:Why I Won't Be Returning To Walt Disney World.

Thus makes our annual trip impossible. Their suggested fix will not work for my son. This is all due to the way some people abused Disney's hospitality to their guests with disabilities. It irks me that kids like my Max are being lumped in with those who use wheelchairs or Rascals. It's like comparing apples to things that aren't apples.
I don't understand enough about how that Fast Pass thing works. Why would this not work for Max? Is it the waiting at the kiosk to get your ride time?
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by bfj » Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:05 pm

Shirley wrote:
bfj wrote:Why I Won't Be Returning To Walt Disney World.

Thus makes our annual trip impossible. Their suggested fix will not work for my son. This is all due to the way some people abused Disney's hospitality to their guests with disabilities. It irks me that kids like my Max are being lumped in with those who use wheelchairs or Rascals. It's like comparing apples to things that aren't apples.
I don't understand enough about how that Fast Pass thing works. Why would this not work for Max? Is it the waiting at the kiosk to get your ride time?

Fast pass gives you a time in the future to return to the ride and get on. With my son, when he wants to get on the Peter Pan ride, we get on the ride. Telling him, "we have to come back in 30 minutes" will cause a tantrum. The way the pass worked before was great because when he wanted to get on, we got in the express lane and were on the ride in 15 minutes or less every time.
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by ZMan » Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:31 am

I think it's way to early to write anything off bfj. Disney is the only place I know of that's more accommodating to customers than a casino. The "tour guide scandal" is testament to that, along with the fact that they specifically consulted with Autism groups before deciding on this course of action.
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by bfj » Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:37 am

ZMan wrote:I think it's way to early to write anything off bfj. Disney is the only place I know of that's more accommodating to customers than a casino. The "tour guide scandal" is testament to that, along with the fact that they specifically consulted with Autism groups before deciding on this course of action.
Not to sound nasty. You don't know my kid. Autism Speaks got lambasted on their site when they came out in support of Disney's decision. Unless the pass goes back to the way it was, it won't work for us. It may work for some kids, but not all autistic kids are the same. That tour guide scandal had nothing to do with Autism or Autistic kids. I'm not blaming Disney, I understand why they did it, but it sucks for so many families that I know.
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by Shirley » Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:00 pm

Below is an email I sent today to two executives at Ballard Design. It details a very impressive run of incompetence.
Dear Ms. Barnes and Mr. McKelvey

Ballard Designs has operations problems. If we weren't actually experiencing these problems first hand, they would be hilarious in their ridiculousness. The tale of our order could form the basis of an old Seinfeld episode.

On October 28, 2012, we purchased, through Ballard Designs' website, the Sidney Dining Table in rubbed white with four Le Mans Dining Chairs in the same color.

Today, December 10, 2013, we still have not received the Sidney Dining Table in rubbed white.

Instead, we have received unfulfilled promises, a yellow/cream Sidney Dining Table table, and a mahogany Bourdannais desk. We also have received two $50 gift cards, many apologies, and reimbursement of the $160 shipping costs we paid to get this table delivered.

The saga unfolded like this:

On October 10, we closed on our new beach condo and began to furnish it.

On Monday, October 28, we purchased Ballard Designs' Sidney Dining Table in rubbed white with four Le Mans Dining chairs in the same color. These items, we thought, would become the primary seating space for meals in our new beach condo.

On November 1 (Friday), we received email indicating our order shipped on October 31.

On November 4 (Monday), we received phone call scheduling delivery on Wednesday, November 6.

This is when things began to unravel. Our order didn't come on Wednesday, November 6. From what we understand, our order simply didn't get put on truck as previously planned and scheduled.

We rescheduled delivery of our order for Friday, November 8, and we arranged (again) to have someone at our house to accept the order (as we work outside the home).

On November 8 (Friday), Ballard Designs delivered four Le Mans chairs and a pedestal in rubbed white, but no one delivered the Sidney Dining Table in rubbed white or the feet for that table.

That same day, November 8 (Friday), we called to Ballard to explain problem with our delivery: We did not receive the Sidney Dining Table in rubbed white or the feet that go with the table. Ballard apologized, offered us a $50 gift card, and reordered table top, saying it would arrive by the next Wednesday, November 13.

On Wednesday, November 13, Ballard Designs failed to deliver the Sidney Dining Table (again) as previously promised.

On Friday, November 15, after not hearing from Ballard, we called (again) to figure out the status of our order. The customer service representative told us on this date that our order had been cancelled, for unexplained reasons. She apologized (again) on Ballard Designs' behalf and reordered our table. We expressed concern about the delivery problems because we were relying on the table to accommodate a portion of our Thanksgiving dinner. The customer service representative promised table by the next week, before Thanksgiving.

On Friday, November 22, Ballard Designs delivered a rubbed cream/yellow tabletop and legs to our home while we were at work. We did not order this table top. We ordered the Sidney Dining Table in rubbed white. When we arrived home, we called Ballard Designs (again). A customer service representative (again) apologized. We explained our concern about receipt of this table prior to Thanksgiving. A manager approved sending the table we ordered with expedited shipping, so that we could have it by Thanksgiving. We changed the shipping address to that of our beach condo instead of our home to ensure that it would be there before Thanksgiving dinner. We were promised the table (this time) by Wednesday, November 27, the day before Thanksgiving.

On Wednesday, November 27, the date Ballard Designs had most recently set for delivery of our Sidney Dining Table in rubbed white, we had not received a phone call from Ballard Designs about delivery by the afternoon, so we called once again. We were told that Ballard changed our shipping from two-day to regular and that we would not be getting our table that day.

Ballard Designs had not, of course, notified us of the company's unilateral decision to change shipping on our order. And, once again, Ballard apologized when we explained that now we would have no table for our Thanksgiving dinner the next day. Ballard Designs offered us another $50 gift card and refunded our $160 shipping cost.

While the many apologies and the two gift cards were nice, they didn't solve the problem of a Thanksgiving dinner without a table.

In our pre-Thanksgiving phone call with Ballard Designs, the customer service manager with whom we spoke explained that table top was on a truck in Georgia but it could not get to our beach condo by Thanksgiving. The manager said she would call the trucking company to get a detailed status of the delivery of our Sidney Dining Table in rubbed white and that she would call back with details. She never called back.

On Tuesday, December 3, we received a phone call scheduling delivery of our Sidney Dining Table in rubbed white for the next day at our beach condo. We arranged to have someone open our condo to accept delivery of our table, even though we could not be at the beach at that time.

On Wednesday, December 4, we received a phone call from a delivery man confirming that he had dropped off "a box" at our condo.

On Friday, December 6, we drove to the beach specifically to set up the table and prepare the condo for guests arriving on December 19. When we arrived at our beach condo, we found a giant box in the dining room. But it did not contain our Sidney Dining Table in rubbed white. It contained a mahogany Bourdonnais desk.

We had arrived at the beach late on Friday, so we didn't call Ballard Designs (again) until Saturday, December 7. Of course, the customer service representatives once again apologized and once again promised expedited delivery of the Sidney Dining Table in rubbed white promptly.

We have absolutely no confidence that we'll ever see this table. But Ballard Designs did show up at our home (unannounced) yesterday to take the yellow table it had delivered here on November 22. While someone should have called us to tell us they would be coming to our house, we don't mind that Ballard Designs picked up this table. We were tired of storing the thing in our garage.

So, our saga is not complete. We have the chairs we ordered in the proper color, and we have half of a table, but we still don't have the table top that goes with them. We believe it is supposed to arrive today, but we will see.

If there is anything you can do to make this right, please let us know.

And -- by all means -- please get the Sidney Dining Table in rubbed white to our beach condo at [REDACTED], before December 19, 2013!

Thank you and we look forward to your prompt response.
The VP of Customer Service contacted me pretty quickly after this. We'll see where this goes.
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by rass » Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:09 pm

I love the repetitive use of the full table name.

Good luck. Given the levels of absurdity reached, this is the sort of thing I would almost find enjoyable if not for how crazy it would drive my wife.

And not that it matters but it looks like you got the purchase date wrong (2012?).
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by howard » Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:23 pm

rass wrote:And not that it matters but it looks like you got the purchase date wrong (2012?).
Or did he?
Who knows? Maybe, you were kidnapped, tied up, taken away and held for ransom.

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Re: Rants 2?

Post by Shirley » Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:56 pm

rass wrote:I love the repetitive use of the full table name.

Good luck. Given the levels of absurdity reached, this is the sort of thing I would almost find enjoyable if not for how crazy it would drive my wife.

And not that it matters but it looks like you got the purchase date wrong (2012?).
Actually, my wife wrote most of that text. As a lawyer, she is good at repeating facts. Of course, she got the date wrong, apparently.

Yeah, we drove down to the beach last weekend almost entirely because we wanted to set up the table. When I saw that huge box, realized it was huge, but the wrong shape, and THEN saw the writing on the side ... man. I thought it was actually kinda funny, but wife wasn't in a joking mood at that point.

AN extra bit of funny - I looked up what desk they had sent us. Apparently it is on back order. If you want one now, you have to wait until February. Maybe that's because they send the damn things out to anyone who orders anything else slightly biggish.

Oh, and I talked on the phone with the VP of Customer Service earlier - they had once again changed our shipping from expedited to truck without telling us. And they were shipping it to my house instead of my condo. She was looking into and was going to call me back. That was over an hour ago...
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by TT2.0 » Sun Dec 15, 2013 2:08 am

Leaving out names and stuff because I can't disclose.

Some of you know, and some don't, that I teach paramedic classes. I had a class scheduled today in beaumont for some paramedics trying to recertify. Holy fucking hell i am terrified at the level of incompetence that is trying to certify to get on an ambulance. If I had a single dollar for ever time i wrote down "did not properly secure patient to backboard" I would be able to buy the swamp a round and have it delivered to your house personally by Jesus. Then there was the bitch who wanted her test invalidated because someone in the next testing room coughed ONCE and it "threw her off her game"...like seriously bitch? You work in EMERGENCY MEDICINE and still want a completely controlled environment where nothing ever happens and no distractions ever occur? What the fuck is wrong with you? Was there for 12 solid hours doing tests and retests for 16 people. such a waste of my time. Granted, there were 2 really really good medics there, that i would be comfortable letting work on me or somebody I care about. But the rest of them? Fuck it, leave me in the parking lot. I've got better odds. By my personal count, if out of the 313 scenarios I ran today, these idiots killed 74, and probably another 18 wouldn't have survived the ambulance ride. Not to mention the brilliant man confidently spitting out diagnoses while reading an ekg strip UPSIDE DOWN. Yeah buddy, i'm sure those sinus rhythms do look pretty bad to you. Fuck everything about today.
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by degenerasian » Sun Dec 15, 2013 2:57 am

does this all tie in with the entitled generation that we seem to talk about in every thread!?

We interviewed some candidates in Friday for the mailroom position. The fucking mailroom! and they all sounded like idiots.

Then I went to the office Christmas party and drank the night away.
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by Johnnie » Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:57 am

Man, the space I could have filled in this thread when I first moved to Germany back in June. I could have sworn I was complaining about it somewhere on here, but man the incompetence and lack of customer service in this country (plus the tone that goes with their I told you so temperament) is enough to make even the most patient people flip the fuck out.

And the fact that the country does the mandatory rest on Sunday thing so nothing is open at all aspect is killer too. Not to mention you cannot work outside in your yard or make noise in your village. This place takes some getting used to -- about 6 months or so.

Also, my job here sucks beyond belief. I have 18 months left and it cannot come fast enough. I don't know where I'm off to next, but going back to Korea for a year to go somewhere I'd like to wouldn't be a bad deal for me at all. I thought I'd like it here, but outside of the travel, it's not as great an assignment as I thought it would be. What's funny is that everyone who has ever been stationed here absolutely loves it and wishes they could come back. I guess I'm not seeing it.
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by The Sybian » Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:19 pm

Johnnie wrote:Man, the space I could have filled in this thread when I first moved to Germany back in June. I could have sworn I was complaining about it somewhere on here, but man the incompetence and lack of customer service in this country (plus the tone that goes with their I told you so temperament) is enough to make even the most patient people flip the fuck out.

And the fact that the country does the mandatory rest on Sunday thing so nothing is open at all aspect is killer too. Not to mention you cannot work outside in your yard or make noise in your village. This place takes some getting used to -- about 6 months or so.

Also, my job here sucks beyond belief. I have 18 months left and it cannot come fast enough. I don't know where I'm off to next, but going back to Korea for a year to go somewhere I'd like to wouldn't be a bad deal for me at all. I thought I'd like it here, but outside of the travel, it's not as great an assignment as I thought it would be. What's funny is that everyone who has ever been stationed here absolutely loves it and wishes they could come back. I guess I'm not seeing it.

But on the bright side, anal!
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by Johnnie » Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:59 pm

The Sybian wrote:But on the bright side, anal!
I was getting to do that to girls in Tucson.
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Post by Jerloma » Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:19 pm

We need to just deep-6 the word "spiritual" from language. I can't fucking stand that word. It's like a word that adults who believe in magic like to use to make themselves sound deep but not crazy. You know why they don't sound crazy...because nobody knows what it fucking means! You ask 100 people what it means and it'll all be something different starting with "Well...what it means to me is"...THAT'S NOW HOW WORDS FUCKING WORK, ASSHOLE!!!! The next person you hear refer to themselves as spiritual, actually call them out on it and ask them what that means. I guarantee you that you'll be fed a line of bullshit word salad that would make Obama seem straightforward. "Oh...I thinks it's really important to be spiritual." I'm sorry, but you're not spiritual...you're just a twat whose petrified about having any convictions whatsoever. You believe in magic? That's fine but for fuck's sake, own it. Fucking own it. Never has a word meant so many things and nothing at all. Just stop now.

Cunts.
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Post by The Sybian » Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:46 am

Jerloma wrote:We need to just deep-6 the word "spiritual" from language. I can't fucking stand that word. It's like a word that adults who believe in magic like to use to make themselves sound deep but not crazy. You know why they don't sound crazy...because nobody knows what it fucking means! You ask 100 people what it means and it'll all be something different starting with "Well...what it means to me is"...THAT'S NOW HOW WORDS FUCKING WORK, ASSHOLE!!!! The next person you hear refer to themselves as spiritual, actually call them out on it and ask them what that means. I guarantee you that you'll be fed a line of bullshit word salad that would make Obama seem straightforward. "Oh...I thinks it's really important to be spiritual." I'm sorry, but you're not spiritual...you're just a twat whose petrified about having any convictions whatsoever. You believe in magic? That's fine but for fuck's sake, own it. Fucking own it. Never has a word meant so many things and nothing at all. Just stop now.

Cunts.

The post where I destroy J-Lo's world (sorry Buddy). Carl Sagan on yes, spirituality:

"“Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality. When we recognize our place in an immensity of light?years and in the passage of ages, when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling, that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual. So are our emotions in the presence of great art or music or literature, or acts of exemplary selfless courage such as those of Mohandas Gandhi or Martin Luther King, Jr. The notion that science and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both.”" - ? Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by Jerloma » Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:01 am

That's exactly my point. The word means nothing. Carl Sagan, a man who doesn't believe in anything supernatural adopts the word spiritual to describe science. In it's simplest form, it means "relating to the spirit." A spirit is something that's incorporeal. It can't be detected via science yet it IS science? Stop it. Sagan dropped the ball on this one. If I had 5 minutes with him, he'd see the error he's making.
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by P.D.X. » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:36 am

Jerloma wrote:That's exactly my point. The word means nothing. Carl Sagan, a man who doesn't believe in anything supernatural adopts the word spiritual to describe science. In it's simplest form, it means "relating to the spirit." A spirit is something that's incorporeal. It can't be detected via science yet it IS science? Stop it. Sagan dropped the ball on this one. If I had 5 minutes with him, he'd see the error he's making.
And he would reply that out of several definitions of "spiritual", you've cherry-picked the one that works in favor of your argument.

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Re: Rants 2?

Post by Jerloma » Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:47 pm

oh really? Spiritual doesn't have to mean relating to the spirit? Does educational not have to mean relating to education either? Let's just start making shit up for every word. It'll do wonders for the advancement of communication.
And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness. - God

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Re: Rants 2?

Post by brian » Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:01 pm

I'm going to side with PDX and Sybian on that one. I might describe a particular album or band as "spiritual" without ever giving a second thought to meaning anything relating to religion.

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Re: Rants 2?

Post by P.D.X. » Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:01 pm

Jerloma wrote:oh really? Spiritual doesn't have to mean relating to the spirit? Does educational not have to mean relating to education either? Let's just start making shit up for every word. It'll do wonders for the advancement of communication.
There is more than one definition of "spirit." You've chosen the one that refers to the little ghost that's presumably in all of us. That's cool, and it fits your argument, but it doesn't invalidate Sagan's quote.

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Re: Rants 2?

Post by brian » Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:06 pm

Back to more mundane matters. I hate the assholes in the grocery store who have two or three items and get into the "regular" lines expecting you to let their ass in because they don't want to wait behind two or three people in the express lines who have only a couple of items. Fuck you, jerkoff. I'm not letting you in. I gotta wait behind some woman buying 300 tiny canisters of yogurt and my time is just as valuable as yours. Go to the appropriate line don't give me that passive-aggressive exasperated sigh because I won't let you in front of me, princess.

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Re: Rants 2?

Post by Scottie » Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:18 pm

For the record, I was born an atheist (as were all of us) and remained so my entire life and, back when I used to run 60-70 miles per week, often on wonderful trails, the word "spiritual" would make perfect sense in describing how I felt; the exuberance of being alive, pure joy in the fulfillment of body and mind. Organized religion had nothing whatsoever to do with this; wasn't on the radar.

The spirit of the law. The spirit of Canada. The spirit of radio. The spirit of golf's rules. There are countless uses of "spirit" that do not denote religion but rather more of an un-nameable emotion or experience. The Japanese culinary word "Umami" arguably translate to the "spirit of food" (we have no translation for it).

One can look up at the star-filled night sky and feel an internal shiver run through the core of their body and describe it as spiritual. Humans have chipped their teeth forever trying to describe overwhelming experiences; poetry and literature are merely two consequences of this.
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by Jerloma » Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:54 pm

Alright. I'll give it to you guys, I suppose. I wasn't implying that it has to mean something religious...just something supernatural. I suppose I've had experiences or connections that you'd refer to as spiritual. I wouldn't but my disdain for it seems a bit misdirected.
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by Scottie » Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:21 pm

Not necessarily supernatural, as it were. Rather what we believe the listener can understand. Not all human beings can articulate their thoughts like Shakespeare. More often than naught we rely on the lower-hanging word rather than wax more eloquently, particularly when speaking to people who probably wouldn't understand us if we upped the standard of speech, simply to get the thought expressed.

Years ago, I attended a Chicago Symphony performance of a Mahler symphony (one of my favorites) conducted by Pierre Boulez. For me, this was a Superbowl of classical. Still walking on air the next Monday morning, my co-worker (a female whose idea of art was watching re-runs of Friends) asked me what it was like. I told her it was like "having a religious experience; like having a vision". Why? I didn't exactly feel like that but I knew it was something she could relate to. It was quick and easy; I certainly didn't feel like I had compromised my being an atheist. How can one compromise nothing? Anyone who is a true atheist (and I'm not aiming at 'loma), who simply has no religion in them at all, simply doesn't think of these things. "Oops, mighta said something religious sounding there". Atheists don't set little tests such as that for themselves; it would never occur to them to do so.
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by Jerloma » Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:43 pm

No, I understand. It's kind of like saying "Oh, my God" which I do in fact all the time and think nothing of it.
And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness. - God

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Re: Rants 2?

Post by Johnnie » Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:56 pm

Not say, feel.

When I was back in Tucson this past November my buddy, who's found a love of astronomy, wanted me to have a great time and he took me and his wife to the University of Arizona Skycenter Observatory.

You want to talk about spiritual in the context of science? Holy shit was that ever. To see all the constellations, galaxies, stars, and planets was unmeasurable. The entire night was one that I'll cherish forever. Arguably the best observatory in America was minutes from my apartment and it took me having left the state to go to it. Half of the residents don't even know it's there. It's sad. I want to go back.
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by The Sybian » Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:06 pm

Scottie wrote:
Years ago, I attended a Chicago Symphony performance of a Mahler symphony (one of my favorites) conducted by Pierre Boulez. For me, this was a Superbowl of classical. Still walking on air the next Monday morning, my co-worker (a female whose idea of art was watching re-runs of Friends) asked me what it was like. I told her it was like "having a religious experience; like having a vision". Why? I didn't exactly feel like that but I knew it was something she could relate to. It was quick and easy; I certainly didn't feel like I had compromised my being an atheist. How can one compromise nothing? Anyone who is a true atheist (and I'm not aiming at 'loma), who simply has no religion in them at all, simply doesn't think of these things. "Oops, mighta said something religious sounding there". Atheists don't set little tests such as that for themselves; it would never occur to them to do so.

Should have gone with, "it was like the first time seeing Ross and Rachel finally hookup."
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by Scottie » Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:10 pm

The Sybian wrote:Should have gone with, "it was like the first time seeing Ross and Rachel finally hookup."
Thing is . . . I have no idea what that means. I've never seen an episode of Friends (assuming those are characters from that show). Couldn't bullshit my way through that if I tried!
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by sancarlos » Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:24 pm

The other day at the gym, I accidentally left my cell phone on an open shelf in the locker room for ten minutes, before I realized I didn't have it with me while I was starting to work out (I use it for an ipod while working out). I rushed to the locker room and was quite relieved to find it right where I left it. "thankyougod, thankyougod, thankyougod, thankyougod" came out of my mouth. Later on, after I was calm, I did a little self-analysis, wondering if my unthinking reaction to finding my phone means that, deep down, perhaps I'm more religious and/or "spiritual" than I thought? It's one thing to analyze things on an intellectual level, another to have the emotional response. I'm still kind of conflicted trying to analyze it. Maybe that's why the cliche goes, "there are no atheists in foxholes".
Last edited by sancarlos on Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by A_B » Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:27 pm

sancarlos wrote:The other day at the gym, I accidentally left my cell phone on an open shelf in the locker room for ten minutes, before I realized I didn't have it with me while I was starting to work out (I use it for an ipod while working out). I rushed to the locker room and was quite relieved to find it right where I left it. "thankyougod, thankyougod, thankyougod, thankyougod" came out of my mouth. Later on, after I was calm, I did a little self-analysis, wondering if my unthinking reaction to finding my phone means that, deep down, I'm more religious and/or "spiritual" than I thought? It's one thing to analyze things on an intellectual level, another to have the emotional response. I'm still kind of conflicted trying to analyze it. Maybe that's why the cliche goes, "there are no atheists in foxholes".
That's more about praying for your life, not that your cellphone migtha been snatched!
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by brian » Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:28 pm

I've turned in cellphones/iPods left on machines to the front desk at the gym at least three times. Hoping that karma pays me back when I need it.

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Re: Rants 2?

Post by Scottie » Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:44 pm

sancarlos wrote: I'm still kind of conflicted trying to analyze it. Maybe that's why the cliche goes, "there are no atheists in foxholes".
Factor in to your analysis the staggering number of times you've seen and heard someone utter "thank g-d" whether on television or movies or out in the actual world. It's astronomic. And then factor in that much of language is reflexive, repeated and habitual.

Consider physical gestures. Nobody questions them. Years ago, back in my stage and TV days, I used to see hours and hours of video of myself. Watching my own body language was fascinating. "Where did I get that gesture?" "Why does that gesture accompany that expression?" Made for a great study.

We didn't create such gestures ourselves. We saw those gestures when something was successfully communicated to us hence we assume it will successfully communicate our own meaning when we repeat them. Even something as simple as a slight head shake with a pursed lower lip and accompanying shoulder shrug to the words "I don't know" enforces the communication yet none of those gestures are conscious but rather reflexive. Ask yourself why you do it? For the same reason common linguistic phrases are ingrained in your communications.
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by The Sybian » Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:45 pm

sancarlos wrote:The other day at the gym, I accidentally left my cell phone on an open shelf in the locker room for ten minutes, before I realized I didn't have it with me while I was starting to work out (I use it for an ipod while working out). I rushed to the locker room and was quite relieved to find it right where I left it. "thankyougod, thankyougod, thankyougod, thankyougod" came out of my mouth. Later on, after I was calm, I did a little self-analysis, wondering if my unthinking reaction to finding my phone means that, deep down, perhaps I'm more religious and/or "spiritual" than I thought? It's one thing to analyze things on an intellectual level, another to have the emotional response. I'm still kind of conflicted trying to analyze it. Maybe that's why the cliche goes, "there are no atheists in foxholes".

I find myself doing the same thing, and it is pretty clear I don't believe in G-d. I think it is such an ingrained saying, that people say it all the time without actually meaning to thank a supernatural supreme being that made and controls the universe. I'll say thank G-d, but I don't ever pray to G-d or ask Him for anything.
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