Rants 2?

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Re: Rants 2?

Post by A_B »

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For. Fucks. Sake.

Post by howard »

Two mf news helicopters hovering directly above me, to provide a live shot for their 6am news shows, of a pile of rubble from AN EVENT THAT HAPPENED TWO DAYS AGO!

Apparently the meaning of the words 'live' and 'news' are unclear to them. As well as the word 'sleep'.

You're on notice, WCBS 2 and WNBC 4.

I should've bought that armed drone on Craigslist.

ETA: WNBC 4 just infomed me that today is 'World Sleep Day'. There is your fucking song, Alanis.
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Re: For. Fucks. Sake.

Post by rass »

howard wrote:Two mf news helicopters hovering directly above me, to provide a live shot for their 6am news shows, of a pile of rubble from AN EVENT THAT HAPPENED TWO DAYS AGO!

Apparently the meaning of the words 'live' and 'news' are unclear to them. As well as the word 'sleep'.

You're on notice, WCBS 2 and WNBC 4.

I should've bought that armed drone on Craigslist.

ETA: WNBC 4 just infomed me that today is 'World Sleep Day'. There is your fucking song, Alanis.
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by howard »

I can't see nothin this early in the morning. Nice tittays, though.

ETA: My goodness, tv news is horrible. Significantly worse in recent years, i.e. reporting tweets to provide 'balance' in a particular story. Can't even be bothered with some well-edited man on the street reaction tape.
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by howard »

As long as I am up this AM.

I've had a rough time the past few weeks, culminating in a very rough few days this week. Let me stop here and be clear I am not seeking sympathy or comfort, just the space to rant. While I love and greatly appreciate the sentiment of well-wishing posts, please it is not necessary; snark and jokes, please bring them on.

I have depression. I have endured about a half dozen major episodes over the years, and I have been treated by doctors appropriately and successfully for the most part. I've never attempted suicide, never been hospitalized, all in all it could've been much much worse. The last eighteen years, since I quit alcohol, the condition has been very manageable and has created minimal interference in my life. There were some really dark weeks and months, but all in the distant past. I consider myself lucky.

I've taken medication off and on since I was 26yo. The antidepressant drugs have been wonderful and allowed me to live a normal, happy life. For 14 years, I've been prescribed a drug called Effexor (venlafaxine). It has by far been the most effective med for me, with limited and easily tolerated side effects. During treatment with Effexor I have not experienced a major depressive episode.

For a variety of reasons I'll skip, since all this is background and is already TL;DR territory, I decided with the advice and input of my doctor to discontinue taking this drug. Here is where the rough part starts. Effexor is well known to cause a large percentage of patients tremendous withdrawal symptoms and difficulties. For some, a more severe withdrawal syndrome than caused by heroin.

I fall into that group.

I've tried three times to discontinue this drug since the first of the year, with three failures. Each of those attempts featured gradual reduction of the daily dose. Each time, within a week, the symptoms forced me to bail, and resume taking the medication. Fortunately, within a couple of hours of resumption, the withdrawal symptoms cease.

Symptoms: bad headache; loud ringing in the ears; a dizzy, buzzing sensation that is hard to describe but feels to me like a blender is running behind my eyeballs; sweating, chills and trembling; nausea and vomiting; lethargy, sleepiness and apathy; conversely insomnia at times; mood swings, sometimes severe; a general fogginess over all cognition making it difficult to focus or think.

These symptoms and what I have learned about the general difficulty thousands of people have with discontinuing this medication caused me to be even more firm in my decision to get off this shit, and get it out of my system. I realized from the symptoms I experienced in these tapering attempts that I had been having these same symptoms intermittently for the past 3-4 years on my usual dosage of the drug. Rather than try to find a higher dose where these symptoms go away, I decided to get off the drug completely, and if necessary use a different medication.

Anything that causes such severe withdrawal effects makes me think is not good for me. And, rather than suffer mild to moderate symptoms over several months of slowly tapering the dose towards zero, I decided to quickly discontinue the drug, suffer severe symptoms for a short period, hopefully just a few days.

So, I took my last dose Monday morning. I am on my fourth day without Effexor. The past three days have sucked balls. I have not had all of the symptoms above, the symptoms are not constant, and the severity rises and falls. But man, this fucking sucks. My head hurts and spins, and the buzzing in my ears are my worst complaints.

There are lots of pills and supplements I am taking to alleviate these symptoms, with some success. Most important, my doc prescribed Prozac; it has a track record of attenuating the withdrawal problems significantly, for some people eliminating the symptoms completely, and it does not cause its own withdrawal problems. Plus, I've taken it in the past and had no side effects on Prozac or when quitting it. I have no idea if it is helping me now, but I hate to think this headache and buzzing in my skull would be worse w/o the Prozac. The other stuff I'm shoveling into my system: Alleve, Benadryl, meclezine, ranitidine, magnesium citrate, magnesium bound to L-threonate, B-complex vitamins, Vit C, Vit D3, Vit E, krill oil, omega 3,6,9 oil, EPA/DHA triglicerides, cod liver oil, ginger tea, turmeric tea, valerian root, and 5-HTP amino acid derivative (a chemical that the liver converts into serotonin).

I am lucky that I was able to clear my schedule, take time from work, and just stay at home in bed all week. Trying to function in this state would be torture. I don't have to work or otherwise be anywhere until day 8. People report variable duration of severe symptoms, anywhere from 3 days to several weeks, for most people it seems 3-10 days. I am hoping last night was the peak of my withdrawal, and that things will fade over the weekend. I've read online literally hundreds of peoples' accounts of their withdrawal, this process seems very individual, very wide variation of experience. Basically if I lie still in bed, with minimal movement, the worst is tolerable, and it comes and goes. But the hours drag by very slowly.

I've learned a shitload about brain chemistry, but mostly I've just reaffirmed how fucking clueless we are about how the brain functions, and how these drugs alter that function. My doctor has tons of knowledge and experience; he consulted several of his colleagues at the big medical center; I've consulted several other docs I know, and I read everything I could find. We're just fumbling in the dark generally when it comes to neuropharmacology, and with this particular medication just guessing. The degree of ignorance is astonishing, and that is coming from a guy whose entire specialty is based on gaseous drugs that we have no fucking idea why they make people go to sleep. (Remember, the state of the art of scientific knowledge today cannot explain even the simple phenomenon of how alcohol works, on the molecular level.)

I am grateful that this particular drug helped free me from severe depression for many years. But between the subtle side effects of the last couple of years, and the two-month and counting process of trying to get off this drug, culminating with three (and counting) absolutely miserable days of bad, painful withdrawal, if I get through the next few days w/o surrendering and popping a full dose, I will never use this drug again.

Fuck Effexor. Fuck the Wyeth Pharmaceutical Company. Fuck JPops. And, as always, Fuck the Dodgers.
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Re: Rants 2?

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Re: Rants 2?

Post by Giff »

Good luck, Howard.
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by The Sybian »

Been there, Doc. Hang in, it passes. I had a very similar experience with Effexor. I've tried at least 12 different anti-depressants in numerous combinations, and Effexor had the best results. The problem I had with it, was if I was late in taking a dose, I could barely function. My symptoms were very similar to yours, even if I was just a couple hours late in taking a dose. I'd also get pretty severe disassociation/depersonaliztion. The problem was I was taking Effexor during my single days living in Hoboken, so there were numerous occasions of crashing at friends' apartments in the City, staying over girl's places I was dating or one-night stands. This was a major problem. The first 3 days or so were horrible, as well. Like living in an extreme hazy dream, bordering on hallucinations. Then it swung way too far the opposite direction (which was great, but probably not healthy) with an extreme feeling of well being.

Do you have what is often described as "electric shocks in your brain?" That was the worst part coming off it for me, and seems very common, too. I have such mixed feelings about the drug, as it was the most effective, but the only drug I have ever experienced issues coming off of or starting. I did a very slow ween, and it was still horrible for 3 days or so every 2 weeks when the dosage was lowered. Many others, most, actually, I've dropped cold turkey with no issues. You should look into Cymbalta and Pristiq. They are supposed to have very similar properties to Effexor, but without the side effects. I tried Pristiq and was on it for a while. I don't even remember why I switched off of it. I'm on Cymbalta now, and it's been pretty good. My Doc likes to mix it with anticonvulsants, namely Lamotrigine and Topiramate.

As always, feel free to PM or call if you want to discuss. Glad you can take off work for this. Trying to go to work with the withdrawal was shitty. I had to lay down on the floor of the PATH as I though I was going to have a vasovegal syncope episode, which I get sometimes, leading into seizure-like reactions. Good times!
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by BSF21 »

Honest question to Howard and any others closely associated with the pharma industry...

These side effects and withdrawals you are experiencing...are these something that are intentionally "left in" the drug's final formula in order to keep people bound by these things for long periods? Some wouldn't have your willpower Howard, they would get into day 2 of the blender effect and say to fuck with it and back on the drugs they go.

I'm not trying to be all tinfoil hat but there has to be something to these things. They have been trying to get my father to go on cholesterol medication for years. His is elevated by current standards (mind you it is perfect by standards set in the 80s-90s), but by no means awful. His reasoning is simple. Once you go on one of these drugs, chances are you are bound to it forever because it is so hard for your body to acclimate to life without it.

So it begs the question --just like the 90mpg engine-- is it possible to develop these drugs without the side effects and if so do they simply choose not to in the interest of protecting their investment? Has it been done and then the Eli Lilys and the AstraZenicas etc of the world buy the rights and destroy them in the interest of protecting their investments?

Interested in all opinions, especially yours Howard.
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by brian »

Howard, have you considered maybe taking some heroin to help lessen the side effects. Then you just have to wean yourself off of the heroin. (Pro tip: Might not want to buy any in Greenwich Village.)
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by degenerasian »

a) it still amazes me how bad US news is. We've had this discussion.

b) hang in there howard, you have us (as little as that is in the grand scheme of things).
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by sancarlos »

Man, Howard. Sorry to hear about the difficulties. Thoughts and prayers and such. Be well.

And, one of your statements really hit home, and is something we should all take to heart... Yes. Fuck the Dodgers.
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by Shirley »

Image
Totally Kafkaesque
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Re: Rants 2?

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Re: Rants 2?

Post by testuser2 »

It sounds like I need to get a conference call with Howard and my dog. Are you also pissing on the floor?
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by howard »

Thanks fellas.

P.D.X. - Yep, that was me in Stage One-Preparation mode Monday afternoon. Except my doc wouldn't prescribe me Valium, and I prefered chocolate ice cream (and a lot more than one quart).

rass - Of course; this tune has been on heavy rotation, along with the blender, in my head. At least I'm not being annoyed by Yoko.
testuser2 wrote:It sounds like I need to get a conference call with Howard and my dog. Are you also pissing on the floor?
Nope. Haven't missed the bucket yet. Good news, as long as the piss is flowing, the kidneys are functioning. At least for humans. Dogs, I have no idea. Vets are much smarter than me; I've mastered the physiology and pathology of one species, they have to know how it works for hundreds of species.
brian wrote:Howard, have you considered maybe taking some heroin to help lessen the side effects. Then you just have to wean yourself off of the heroin. (Pro tip: Might not want to buy any in Greenwich Village.)
Heroin would've been ideal. Unfortunately, my doctor thought this too was a bad idea. These fucking ivory tower psychiatrists know nothing of the real world.
BSF21 wrote:These side effects and withdrawals you are experiencing...are these something that are intentionally "left in" the drug's final formula in order to keep people bound by these things for long periods?
Interesting idea. The pharma industry is certainly capable of such criminal cynicism in the pursuit of huge profits. They have been caught committing similar and much worse. I have to guess this was a 'lucky' accident, discovered long after the commercial release of the drug. There is too little known about brain chemistry to have designed this flaw/feature, and discovery of this withdrawal syndrome would likely have required much more patient experience than a few months of clinical trials on a small number of subjects. I would be shocked that upon discovering this phenomenon they would be able to engineer or alter the drug to enhance the effect, or be able to induce it into a new product (they have done exactly that with other kinds of drugs). However, I have no doubt they take other action to leverage this horrible ill effect for greater profit--tailoring their marketing efforts, for example. I am sure they would if they could, but for this particular drug I don't think the technology or knowledge is there yet. Just a guess, I could be completely wrong.
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by howard »

The Sybian wrote:Been there, Doc. Hang in, it passes. I had a very similar experience with Effexor.
Sybian. Bro. Effexor Bro.

I too had severe symptoms on the rare occasions I missed a dose or was a few hours late. I've had much milder but still annoying symptoms when I skipped a dose of other medications, so over the years I'd developed good habits of always carrying some with me.

Looking back, I think for at least a couple of years I've had chronic withdrawal symptoms on a daily basis, probably my dose had been outpaced by my brain's increasing tolerance to the drug. But many days, in the early afternoon, even though I had taken my morning dose, I'd get drowsy, fatigued, unmotivated. Not severe enough to think there was something wrong. I thought it was just me getting old or something; now I'm betting it was a side effect of Effexor.

I am not planning on replacing the Effexor. The Prozac is just a bridge strategy to damp down the withdrawal effects, I'll stop it as soon as these withdrawal pains are gone. There are a lot of factors that lead me to optimistically expect that I will be ok off meds. No booze sloshing around my brain for 18 years being the biggest, but other factors include a lot of psychotherapy, cognitive behavioral therapy, a much healthier diet over the past three years, and the absence of major depression for many years now. There is a big seasonal component to my mood in the past (they say it is sunlight; I say it is baseball season.) I won't be stubborn about going back on medication should the darkness, my old friend, return.

Yes, the Brain ZAPS. I sure get them. Some people describe them as 'hearing my eyeballs moving'. Fucking weird--they don't hurt, yet they are very unsettling. Yesterday I was getting them dozens of times a minute. I read on one of the message boards how to induce them--while holding your head still, look to the side as far as you can, then suddenly look to the other side---ZAPPP! Now that I can trigger them at will, they don't freak me as much.

The don't call these things "Satan's Tic Tacs" for nothing. I def will call you (or pm if I can't find your number); knowing I am not the only one who has had these experiences getting off this drug is invaluable.
Who knows? Maybe, you were kidnapped, tied up, taken away and held for ransom.

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Over a long time ago
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by The Sybian »

howard wrote:
BSF21 wrote:These side effects and withdrawals you are experiencing...are these something that are intentionally "left in" the drug's final formula in order to keep people bound by these things for long periods?
Interesting idea. The pharma industry is certainly capable of such criminal cynicism in the pursuit of huge profits. They have been caught committing similar and much worse. I have to guess this was a 'lucky' accident, discovered long after the commercial release of the drug. There is too little known about brain chemistry to have designed this flaw/feature, and discovery of this withdrawal syndrome would likely have required much more patient experience than a few months of clinical trials on a small number of subjects. I would be shocked that upon discovering this phenomenon they would be able to engineer or alter the drug to enhance the effect, or be able to induce it into a new product (they have done exactly that with other kinds of drugs). However, I have no doubt they take other action to leverage this horrible ill effect for greater profit--tailoring their marketing efforts, for example. I am sure they would if they could, but for this particular drug I don't think the technology or knowledge is there yet. Just a guess, I could be completely wrong.
I was going to give a very similar answer. I am certainly cynical enough to believe Big Pharma isn't above intentionally hooking people, but psychopharmaceuticals are such a crap shoot, they have little control over what the drugs do. Ordinarily, I would have thought I would never fuck with this stuff, as I have no doubt it'll eventually cause some sort of horrible side effect or disease that could end up killing me, but it beats the alternative. Many drugs were intended for different purposes and discovered that an unexpected outcome was treating a different issue. Like the anti-seizure meds I mentioned, are now regularly used to treat bipolar disorder, and recently used for depression. No idea why it works, it just does. Sometimes. Modern medical treatment of depression are essentially throwing random drugs at the problems and seeing if any, or any combination work for a specific individual.

While I hate putting this shit into my body and I thought the goal was to eventually not need meds, my depression is constant, with less severe major episodes (dysthemia). Pretty much every expert says going off is asking for trouble, and there really is no good time to try it, what with trying to keep a job and raising kids.
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by Sabo »

After reading all of this, I am so glad I decided to stay away from prescription drugs when dealing with my depression. My therapist wanted to put me on them at first, but I was adamant about going on them solely as a last resort. Fortunately, that hasn't happened. I think I would rather self medicate.
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by howard »

Depression is a fatal disease; when treatment fails, the patient dies via suicide. Tens of thousands every year in America. This outweighs a whole lot of negative side effects.

Correctly treating a patient with depression is an art form, not a science. Finding the best medication for an individual patient is a high art.

The fact that only a small percentage of Americans are prescribed antidepressants and other potent, dangerous psychiatric drugs by a psychiatrist is a horrible, dangerous state of affairs. Internists, gynecologists, surgeons, nurse practitioners and other therapists (social workers, psychology masters degree counselors in concert with some neuropharmacologist who sees the patient 10 minutes every three months) administering antidepressants makes as much sense as Michael Jackson's personal physician, a cardiologist, administering general anesthesia to him. With similarly dismal results.

Further, since prescribing a pill instead of psychotherapy, diet modification, nutritional supplement and behavioral therapies is both cheaper, yielding bigger insurance company profits, and directly yields pharmaceutical company profit, guess what we get.

In this area, things are really incredibly fucked. Trying to sort out the choice of whether or not to take an antidepressant is a huge personal challenge, made that much more difficult when you are limited by time, money, insurance policy, family and work demands, or a dozen other factors.
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by BSF21 »

howard wrote:
BSF21 wrote:These side effects and withdrawals you are experiencing...are these something that are intentionally "left in" the drug's final formula in order to keep people bound by these things for long periods?
Interesting idea. The pharma industry is certainly capable of such criminal cynicism in the pursuit of huge profits. They have been caught committing similar and much worse. I have to guess this was a 'lucky' accident, discovered long after the commercial release of the drug. There is too little known about brain chemistry to have designed this flaw/feature, and discovery of this withdrawal syndrome would likely have required much more patient experience than a few months of clinical trials on a small number of subjects. I would be shocked that upon discovering this phenomenon they would be able to engineer or alter the drug to enhance the effect, or be able to induce it into a new product (they have done exactly that with other kinds of drugs). However, I have no doubt they take other action to leverage this horrible ill effect for greater profit--tailoring their marketing efforts, for example. I am sure they would if they could, but for this particular drug I don't think the technology or knowledge is there yet. Just a guess, I could be completely wrong.
It's not even so much this as the idea that with all of the lobbying in big Pharma and the trials they conduct...you think the big guns get through FDA trials a little easier because of all that money that flows towards the right people? And that said if they developed the drug over another 5-10 years perhaps they could get rid of those "side effects", but hell, so what if it is hell to get off of if it works right? Why would you ever want to be off a chemical that WORKS?

Drugs confound me some is all. I've never been a fan. Opiates have made me a very violent person (given by a professional, never experimented recreation-wise because of that). I don't like the idea of NEEDING anything to function. I know sometimes it is necessary, but I'm firmly in the Sabo camp. Only as a last resort.

I also totally agree with the point that it has got to be like throwing darts when it comes to these things and altering brain chemistry, but I'm talking more in the vein of blood pressure, cholesterol, etc drugs.

Thanks for your opinion Doc. Hope it gets better for you soon.
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by howard »

BSF21 wrote: but I'm talking more in the vein of blood pressure, cholesterol, etc drugs.
The shenanigans Big Pharma has pulled with cholesterol drugs (and many other medications) are mind boggling. That is just the things that have been exposed to date. When the statin drug story is fully told, it will clearly expose this group of criminals.

It is one thing to be greedy and try to max out the wealth you extract from your fellow man. It is the severe damage and literal death caused in the process of cashing in that greed that is truly evil. So much of this theft and death is concentrated in just a few firms in a few industries--wall street; the rest of banking and finance; big pharma; big agriculture and so-called food corporations;--this is what makes me rant. Things are so much worse than the recent past. At least the military-industrial complex firms are forthright in their profits = death economy.
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by DC47 »

So sorry you're going through this Howard. You're both wise and brave to step up to the challenge without having clear disasters to give you no choice. I'll be pulling for you.
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by howard »

It isn't all bad. No reading about computational genomics this week, which give me a whole other kind of headache and dizziness, in some ways worse.

Tnx.
Who knows? Maybe, you were kidnapped, tied up, taken away and held for ransom.

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Re: Rants 2?

Post by Johnnie »

Here I was a few days ago about to wax poetic in this thread about how I hate my boss and the squadron I work for but thought better of it.

Glad I did. I had no idea that many of you folks suffer from depression. It's so sad to read that. I feel like a lucky dude sometimes. I've never been medicated on a level like that. I've never needed to be. If I ever was suggested to, I'm afraid of it because of withdrawal and side effects.

I mean seriously, when the side effects alone reads like a list of things you want your worst enemy to go through, you will have a hard time convincing me that the pain it alleviates is worth it.

I hope you guys feel better. This makes me feel shitty. I don't like reading shit like that.
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by Gunpowder »

You bros need to pop some mollies. I'll hook yinz up
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by howard »

Johnnie wrote:This makes me feel shitty. I don't like reading shit like that.
They got a pill for that
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by govmentchedda »

Gunpowder wrote:You bros need to pop some mollies. I'll hook yinz up
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by degenerasian »

Johnnie wrote:Here I was a few days ago about to wax poetic in this thread about how I hate my boss and the squadron I work for but thought better of it.

Glad I did. I had no idea that many of you folks suffer from depression. It's so sad to read that. I feel like a lucky dude sometimes. I've never been medicated on a level like that. I've never needed to be. If I ever was suggested to, I'm afraid of it because of withdrawal and side effects.

I mean seriously, when the side effects alone reads like a list of things you want your worst enemy to go through, you will have a hard time convincing me that the pain it alleviates is worth it.

I hope you guys feel better. This makes me feel shitty. I don't like reading shit like that.
yeah I'm the same. I didn't even understand that list of side effects. I've never been medicated for anything.
Yes I whine and rant about trivial stuff like dating and work but it's nothing compared to what I've learned about you guys.

Depression, losing and looking for jobs (w/ 8 interviews), autistic kids, etc... I don't even feel like an adult around you guys.
I have nothing going on, just go to work and go home. Pool on Tuesdays with a bunch of strangers was a huge leap forward.

Even my parents aren't sick! I'm seriously missing out.
Kung Fu movies are like porn. There's 1 on 1, then 2 on 1, then a group scene..
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DC47
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by DC47 »

In my experience, not that many people escape having to deal with some seriously bad stuff in this life. For most, it's just a question of when. I'm an old guy, so I've had time to rack up my own short list of the bad.

But being completely serious, I consider myself pretty lucky. I've got an off-setting list of things that have been terrific. On balance, I'm good with this life.

I've known many who haven't hit a real bad spell (yet) in their lives. But many of them also have little on the other side of the scale. Who's to say which of us is really better off?
howard
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by howard »

Jason Whitlock. Fuck You.

(I know, it serves me right.)

Whitlock is not a dumb man. He is intelligent, thoughtful, bold in some of the things he has been willing to address head on. However, he repeatedly, consistently does something that 1) many folks are guilty of, and get a pass; 2) is so evil and vile it negates all the good that results from his work; 3) particularly pisses me off.

He is a race baiter of the worst kind. The kind that attempts to bully those who don't go along. Specifically those fellow black folk who don't go along.

In the midst of making a very reasonable critique, instead of being satisfied with the power of his logic and words, he drops in a 'why (Kobe) gets to live in the big house'.

Fuck you you big fat racist fuck.

Kornheiser quietly, calmly, in half a sentence eviscerated Whitlock's racist politically correct bullshit. Left fat boy blithering nonsense. Ah, yes, that is why I watch. To see your ignorant racist hatred exposed.

I don't even agree with Kobe's stance or statement. I ain't gonna tolerate the 'House Nigger' line of critique, howevah. The clearest illustration I can think conjure, of all that is evil and wrong about political correctness.
Who knows? Maybe, you were kidnapped, tied up, taken away and held for ransom.

Those days are gone forever
Over a long time ago
Oh yeah…
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DC47
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by DC47 »

So true. And a sad waste of talent.

I remember the days when a very young Jason Whitlock was on our local paper's sports staff. Just a pup. But he had it all. Incisive, fresh thinking. The ability to write well in a column format. Pumping it out day after day. Great stuff -- I wanted to read his take more than any national writer.

His ability was recognized and he moved up the ladder. Now he's seem to have hit a wall and too often goes for the cheap stuff. Perhaps he's still doing some strong pieces. But I no longer go looking for him, so I can't tell.
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by Pruitt »

I love teaching.

As I have mentioned elsewhere, I spend the winter semester teaching TV Writing at a local college. The course is a prerequisite in the Broadcast Media program which means that a student can't get a diploma unless they pass my course. In two previous years, I have failed 13 out of 120 students, and only one of them handed in all of the major assignments. In most cases, those 13 students failed other courses and were kicked out of school.

One kid that failed last year (with an emphatic 38%), spent part of the last day of class last year on the verge of tears as he told me that this program was his "last chance" at college. He didn'tt know what he'd do if he was kicked out of school, etc., etc.

Well, he managed to beg his way back into the program - on academic probation. So he had to take my course again.

He started the semester alright, missed a couple of minor assignments, but was at 68% on the midterm. Since then, he has missed a couple of major assignments, missed class without explanations and has not been paying attention as the course builds towards its big event - a 10 page script based upon an original series idea.

So, these scripts were due today, and after class, this student came up to me to say that he decided that he wasn't really liking the series idea that he was developing, so he handed in last year's script.

Yes, last year's script which I marked and failed him on as it was improperly formatted and only 6 pages long. Completely unchanged as well.

My jaw dropped and I asked why he would think that I would mark work that he had submitted twelve months earlier.

His response: he was handing in the second draft from last year.

With jaw still wide open, I opened the script and pointed out that the header said "First Draft, April 4, 2013."

I gave him 48 hours to get in an original script that would be marked with a 30% deduction, or else he'd get 0% and would undoubtedly be the first student to fail the course twice. He was grateful and apologetic.

Got home from school and was greeted by an email from this idiot saying that he didn't doubt me, but that he couldn't remember not handing in any assignments. I itemized the four assignments he's missed submitting, detailed their value in percent and cced my supervisor and the Dean.

In a few short hours, I went from hoping the kid's original script was at least formatted well enough to allow him to pass to thinking that he may just be the biggest moron I have ever met.

Off my chest, feel a lot better.
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by howard »

Pruitt wrote:…he may just be the biggest moron I have ever met.
The (thankfully) rare occasions I encounter someone like this, I am reminded that some folks seem literally too dumb to function at any level, much less earn a college degree or hold down a job that demands little more than showing up.

Yet they do. I am regularly amazed. This is the strongest evidence I see in my life of the existence of a supreme being--how else could such folks survive w/o some greater power looking out for them.

I have had patients who I worried were too fucking stupid to remember to breathe.

You're not alone. But your work requires deeper involvement with such morons, in a non-caretaking role. If you weren't a good teacher, devoted to your craft, you wouldn't give a fuck and would just pass or fail him and not give it a second thought. So, the price you pay for excellence and devotion, I guess. (Or the price of giving a fuck.)
Who knows? Maybe, you were kidnapped, tied up, taken away and held for ransom.

Those days are gone forever
Over a long time ago
Oh yeah…
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by Pruitt »

howard wrote: I have had patients who I worried were too fucking stupid to remember to breathe.

You're not alone. But your work requires deeper involvement with such morons, in a non-caretaking role. If you weren't a good teacher, devoted to your craft, you wouldn't give a fuck and would just pass or fail him and not give it a second thought. So, the price you pay for excellence and devotion, I guess. (Or the price of giving a fuck.)
You are so right - all during my first year of teaching, I only marvelled at the stupidity of students who spent the entire class texting, or who weren't sure how to spell "I." Now, I realize that I'd be out of teaching if I didn't focus on the good students instead of the bad.

Balancing out this kid are the two students who asked if I could read their scripts today after class so that they could start revising it immediately (next draft is due in two weeks).

Accentuate the positive - otherwise, we'd go crazy.
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by testuser2 »

Pruitt wrote:You are so right - all during my first year of teaching, I only marvelled at the stupidity of students who spent the entire class texting, or who weren't sure how to spell "I." Now, I realize that I'd be out of teaching if I didn't focus on the good students instead of the bad.
This is what I find so painful about education. I've been on a few different sides of the desk. I taught classes in high school, college and now IT. At each I've spent a large chunk of time dealing with students that will not do any work. Actually they will do work. As long as it means they get out of doing more work. For example: students will report system outages or technical problems in order to hand in late or substandard assignments. They will even fight all the way to expulsion for academic dishonesty.

The system is set up to protect and decrease penalties for lazy students. We treat them like children with the way we handle funding, but we want them to be adults in their course work. For example... Take out a federal loan for college as an 18 year old. Then don't show up to any classes... You parents can't check on you. They can't even verify that you are still enrolled in your classes. You can then demand through title IV that you don't owe all your tuition.

Pruitt: You sound like a great faculty member. I burned out working directly with students. In high school I didn't get enough time with the good students because I was always with the bad ones. Have you used any tools to verify originality? Something like TurnItIn is pretty slick. It might help offload some of the time you spend with the bad students.
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by Pruitt »

testuser2 wrote: This is what I find so painful about education. I've been on a few different sides of the desk. I taught classes in high school, college and now IT. At each I've spent a large chunk of time dealing with students that will not do any work. Actually they will do work. As long as it means they get out of doing more work. For example: students will report system outages or technical problems in order to hand in late or substandard assignments. They will even fight all the way to expulsion for academic dishonesty.

The system is set up to protect and decrease penalties for lazy students. We treat them like children with the way we handle funding, but we want them to be adults in their course work. For example... Take out a federal loan for college as an 18 year old. Then don't show up to any classes... You parents can't check on you. They can't even verify that you are still enrolled in your classes. You can then demand through title IV that you don't owe all your tuition.

Pruitt: You sound like a great faculty member. I burned out working directly with students. In high school I didn't get enough time with the good students because I was always with the bad ones. Have you used any tools to verify originality? Something like TurnItIn is pretty slick. It might help offload some of the time you spend with the bad students.
I do try, and one of the reasons that I enjoy teaching is that I am "Partial Load" meaning that I teach for one semester with less than 12 hours of in class time per week. Pay's fine, and it supplements my regular work as a freelance animation writer. But I can see that if I was teaching a couple of courses for a full year how eventually, it would stop being enjoyable - how instead of nodding and telling the student who at 8:15 told me that he sent me an email at 7:30 saying that his script assignment was on the hard drive of his father's computer so he couldn't submit that he had until 5pm to get it to my inbox, I'd feel like throwing a shoe at his head.

But the thing I've come to realize is that these dumb kids, the ones who - as you said - spend more time thinking up excuses than trying to do work - aren't going anywhere in this world. That's the wisdom of experience. Dumb adults start as dumb kids.

As for tools to verify originality - I'm part time. I don't have the time or inclination to spend hours trying to catch them cheating, but as their homework involves writing, it's easy to figure out when a student suddenly goes from writing in a barely literate style to handing in professional sounding work. In fact, earlier this year, the assignment was to write a 30 second Public Service Announcement, for either a real cause or a fictitious one. One Student who was lazy and had marks in the mid 60s handed in a really well done anti-drunk driving message. Shots broken down perfectly, great premise and the voiceover was terse and effective.

It took less than five minute to find the actual message that she had ripped off - an English ad that ran three years ago. (Youtube rules!) All she changed was "pounds" to "dollars." And while the school wanted to give her a chance, the Profs in the department were outraged. She was told that she'd have to leave the program for a semester and when she returned, she'd be on probation.

She dropped out of the program, and that's the best thing that you can tell students - that someone is out of the program because she was caught plagiarizing.
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by degenerasian »

Pruitt wrote:
howard wrote: I have had patients who I worried were too fucking stupid to remember to breathe.

You're not alone. But your work requires deeper involvement with such morons, in a non-caretaking role. If you weren't a good teacher, devoted to your craft, you wouldn't give a fuck and would just pass or fail him and not give it a second thought. So, the price you pay for excellence and devotion, I guess. (Or the price of giving a fuck.)
You are so right - all during my first year of teaching, I only marvelled at the stupidity of students who spent the entire class texting, or who weren't sure how to spell "I." Now, I realize that I'd be out of teaching if I didn't focus on the good students instead of the bad.

Balancing out this kid are the two students who asked if I could read their scripts today after class so that they could start revising it immediately (next draft is due in two weeks).

Accentuate the positive - otherwise, we'd go crazy.
yeah I think the moron is a lost cause, reward the positive students, give them the best experience and time possible cause I'm sure the opposite happens where the good kids ask the teacher to revise something for their benefit and the teacher doesn't give a fuck.
Kung Fu movies are like porn. There's 1 on 1, then 2 on 1, then a group scene..
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Follow Up

Post by howard »

The only support I sought from the swamp in my withdrawal from this medication was a place to rant. Of course, I got much more. Thanks for the kind words and bad jokes. Y'all helped me tremendously. Thanks guys.

I am thee weeks out from complete cessation of Effexor. I had five or six bad days in the first week, then the complex of symptoms gradually weakened each day. I stayed in bed for the first week, did limited but slowly increasing amounts of work (patient care and otherwise) since, I'm nearly back to a normal schedule.

I am still bugged by headaches, occasional dizziness, and fatigue, but little more than an annoyance. I'm surprised by the persistence, and starting to worry this may last several more weeks. I'm a baby about headaches; I've never had them chronically, only associated with something specific and short term (a cold, a hangover, a concussion.) But things are cool, I'm feeling much better and most of this withdrawal ordeal is in the rear view.

I haven't been able to exercise yet. It has been seven weeks since I hit the gym. And junk food, primarily ice cream, chocolate candy and potato chips, seemed to temper the worst of the symptoms. So, I've gained about 15 pounds since I began trying to wean from this drug in late January, up to over 240 lbs. Man, I could hit 300# and become Homer Simpson by the end of the year without hardly trying. But I think I'll try the other direction. It should be easier to lose and keep off weight off this drug.
Who knows? Maybe, you were kidnapped, tied up, taken away and held for ransom.

Those days are gone forever
Over a long time ago
Oh yeah…
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Re: Rants 2?

Post by The Sybian »

Howard, you are supposed to gain weight when you go ON anti-depressants, not off! And you call yourself a doctor. That really sucks that you are still feeling it. Like I said before, slowly tapering, I think 50mg every two weeks had me fucked up for 3 days each time. Now that Cymbalta and Pristiq are out, Effexor should be revoked by the FDA. Or psychiatrists should stop prescribing it. All drugs have an enormous list of potential side effects, but most are slightly higher than placebos. For Effexor, it seems like just about everyone gets the withdrawal effects going off, or even taking the pills a couple hours late.
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