The Official Pussification of America Thread (Mostly Sports)

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Re: The Official Pussification of America Thread (Mostly Sports)

Post by degenerasian »

something about kids finding creative ways to solve 5x4 instead of just memorizing that it's 20. It's the first I've heard of this.
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Re: The Official Pussification of America Thread (Mostly Sports)

Post by sancarlos »

My daughter is in public school in 11th grade. She is taking a calculus class that is beyond anything offered at the high school I attended a hundred years ago. Last year, she took a pre-calc class that was beyond anything offered at the high school I attended a hundred years ago. Public school test scores around here are very high.

So, no to your question, degen, at least here.
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Re: The Official Pussification of America Thread (Mostly Sports)

Post by Joe K »

sancarlos wrote:My daughter is in public school in 11th grade. She is taking a calculus class that is beyond anything offered at the high school I attended a hundred years ago. Last year, she took a pre-calc class that was beyond anything offered at the high school I attended a hundred years ago. Public school test scores around here are very high.

So, no to your question, degen, at least here.
Yeah, that's consistent with my experience going to public school in suburban upstate NY 15+ years ago. There are good schools out there, it's just that the quality of public school education varies tremendously based on the resources and economic character of the district. I definitely don't think that any issues with math scores have to do with kids being too "pussified" to learn how to multiply.
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Re: The Official Pussification of America Thread (Mostly Sports)

Post by A_B »

Do they get participation math grades?
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Re: The Official Pussification of America Thread (Mostly Sports)

Post by The Sybian »

degenerasian wrote:Calgary Math scores on the decline, public schools doing worse than catholic schools
The effects of the adoption of inquiry-math are particularly striking in Calgary Board of Education (CBE) schools, where data shows a dramatic increase in children failing math from grade 6 to grade 12. Math scores have fallen rapidly at CBE and are now significantly lower than those of the Calgary Catholic School District (CCSD). Some key statistics paint a startling picture of poor math performance and a concerning downward trend:

There are more students failing than achieving excellence on the Grade 6 Math Provincial Achievement Test (PAT) – a dramatic reversal of fortune under the leadership of current CBE trustees.
CBE schools have an average failure rate over 50% higher than CCSD schools on the Grade 6 and Grade 9 Math PATs. The CBE’s Grade 9 failure rate is also 14% higher than the provincial average.
For you guys with kids in school, do you find that generally the scores are decreasing or are there different styles of teaching today?

Not sure, since they use different tests than when we ere kids. One thing is for sure, the companies that make all of the educational tests and common core materials are making a fuckton more money than in the past.
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Re: The Official Pussification of America Thread (Mostly Sports)

Post by HaulCitgo »

degenerasian wrote:something about kids finding creative ways to solve 5x4 instead of just memorizing that it's 20. It's the first I've heard of this.
My elementary kids use "eureka math" branded texts and it is very much as you describe above. But it definitely requires more high level thinking and is pretty clearly intended to introduce algebraic concepts. The pussies are mom and dad who didn't learn this way and find it difficult to help their kids a an embarrassingly early age. All in all for the best. There are lots of easier and faster ways to solve math problems but the curriculum requires a real understanding of base 10 concepts and emphasizes word problem solving over straight equations.
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Re: The Official Pussification of America Thread (Mostly Sports)

Post by A_B »

HaulCitgo wrote:
degenerasian wrote:something about kids finding creative ways to solve 5x4 instead of just memorizing that it's 20. It's the first I've heard of this.
My elementary kids use "eureka math" branded texts and it is very much as you describe above. But it definitely requires more high level thinking and is pretty clearly intended to introduce algebraic concepts. The pussies are mom and dad who didn't learn this way and find it difficult to help their kids a an embarrassingly early age. All in all for the best. There are lots of easier and faster ways to solve math problems but the curriculum requires a real understanding of base 10 concepts and emphasizes word problem solving over straight equations.

Gonna give a slightly different perspective. I've been pretty heavily involved in my kids education from since before Day 1, and this is easily one of the biggest issues we've ever had - that things are taught differently now than I learned. That in itself is not a bad thing; I am all in on new methods. The problem arises when the school won't provide me any materials that show the process because they don't have enough books for everyone.

So I can't teach how they've learned it, and it creates a lot of frustration for parent and child sitting around a homework table when she needs to know how her teacher expects her to do it, but all online resources are apparently proprietary ad require a log in from a book which - remember - we don't have.
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Re: The Official Pussification of America Thread (Mostly Sports)

Post by A_B »

And don't get me started on the 6th grade teacher who sent homework home the DAY BEFORE the lesson so see what the kids were able to understand before teaching it, ostensibly to be able to focus on the parts that were less understood and not worry if there were concepts that already made sense. I teach it how I know, kids actually fucking understands it, then comes home the next day in tears because the teacher taught it in a totally different method that confused the whole situation.

I thought I said don't get me started!
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Re: The Official Pussification of America Thread (Mostly Sports)

Post by HaulCitgo »

To be clear, I'm one of the embarrassed pussies. But the biggest problem arises when political winds shift every couple years and kids start a new curriculum in the middle. Really hard to step into some concepts without the prior years of foundation.
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Re: The Official Pussification of America Thread (Mostly Sports)

Post by A_B »

HaulCitgo wrote:To be clear, I'm one of the embarrassed pussies. But the biggest problem arises when political winds shift every couple years and kids start a new curriculum in the middle. Really hard to step into some concepts without the prior years of foundation.
Agree on this as well.
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Re: The Official Pussification of America Thread (Mostly Sports)

Post by Johnnie »

I'm very, very certain that I won't be having kids. Between my finding this world to be getting uglier by the day coupled with raising a human within it mixed with the fear of failing, I just can't.

I see shit like dealing with the concepts of providing adequate education just burdensome. Something like that should be universal, fundamental, and positively influenced. But it seems like it isn't.

I remember getting into an argument with a teacher about "adding up to subtract." I told her naming the concept that way alone creates the confusion and then it compounds once you put it into practice. Why is "borrowing a ten" not the main focus? Sure, we read from left to right, but math, in that way, should be done right to left. And I say this as a guy who taught myself to do math left to right because math was second nature and easy as hell for me. It's just not that way for everyone.
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Re: The Official Pussification of America Thread (Mostly Sports)

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A_B wrote:And don't get me started on the 6th grade teacher who sent homework home the DAY BEFORE the lesson so see what the kids were able to understand before teaching it, ostensibly to be able to focus on the parts that were less understood and not worry if there were concepts that already made sense. I teach it how I know, kids actually fucking understands it, then comes home the next day in tears because the teacher taught it in a totally different method that confused the whole situation.

I thought I said don't get me started!
Umm, maybe you confused the situation by teaching it one way, when the teacher had a plan to teach it another? I would say that if there's a chance the teachers will teach things a different way, you should probably not "pre-teach" that stuff.

If you are concerned about how many books the school has, perhaps you can borrow one and photocopy the sections you need. If it's a problem that seems to recur, it might even be worth buying the book yourself. I bought a used Teacher's Edition to go with my son's German textbook last year, and it worked great.
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Re: The Official Pussification of America Thread (Mostly Sports)

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Steve of phpBB wrote:
A_B wrote:And don't get me started on the 6th grade teacher who sent homework home the DAY BEFORE the lesson so see what the kids were able to understand before teaching it, ostensibly to be able to focus on the parts that were less understood and not worry if there were concepts that already made sense. I teach it how I know, kids actually fucking understands it, then comes home the next day in tears because the teacher taught it in a totally different method that confused the whole situation.

I thought I said don't get me started!
Umm, maybe you confused the situation by teaching it one way, when the teacher had a plan to teach it another? I would say that if there's a chance the teachers will teach things a different way, you should probably not "pre-teach" that stuff.

If you are concerned about how many books the school has, perhaps you can borrow one and photocopy the sections you need. If it's a problem that seems to recur, it might even be worth buying the book yourself. I bought a used Teacher's Edition to go with my son's German textbook last year, and it worked great.
Nice AB, you made your daughter cry.
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Re: The Official Pussification of America Thread (Mostly Sports)

Post by Pruitt »

Johnnie wrote:I'm very, very certain that I won't be having kids. Between my finding this world to be getting uglier by the day coupled with raising a human within it mixed with the fear of failing, I just can't.

I see shit like dealing with the concepts of providing adequate education just burdensome. Something like that should be universal, fundamental, and positively influenced. But it seems like it isn't.

I remember getting into an argument with a teacher about "adding up to subtract." I told her naming the concept that way alone creates the confusion and then it compounds once you put it into practice. Why is "borrowing a ten" not the main focus? Sure, we read from left to right, but math, in that way, should be done right to left. And I say this as a guy who taught myself to do math left to right because math was second nature and easy as hell for me. It's just not that way for everyone.
The truly bizarre thing is that the concepts of teaching math have changed many times since I was a pisher in short pants.

Why? (I have no answer)

I was no math whiz, but my Grandfather was a math teacher and the basics (including "borrowing a ten") worked with me. To this day, I can multiply two two digit numbers in my head in seconds based on the basic shit he taught me.
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Re: The Official Pussification of America Thread (Mostly Sports)

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Steve of phpBB wrote:
A_B wrote:And don't get me started on the 6th grade teacher who sent homework home the DAY BEFORE the lesson so see what the kids were able to understand before teaching it, ostensibly to be able to focus on the parts that were less understood and not worry if there were concepts that already made sense. I teach it how I know, kids actually fucking understands it, then comes home the next day in tears because the teacher taught it in a totally different method that confused the whole situation.

I thought I said don't get me started!
Umm, maybe you confused the situation by teaching it one way, when the teacher had a plan to teach it another? I would say that if there's a chance the teachers will teach things a different way, you should probably not "pre-teach" that stuff.

If you are concerned about how many books the school has, perhaps you can borrow one and photocopy the sections you need. If it's a problem that seems to recur, it might even be worth buying the book yourself. I bought a used Teacher's Edition to go with my son's German textbook last year, and it worked great.
Obviously. That's part of my point. Don't fucking send it home and then grade them on it. Which they were. I probably wasn't clear.
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Re: The Official Pussification of America Thread (Mostly Sports)

Post by A_B »

bfj wrote:
Steve of phpBB wrote:
A_B wrote:And don't get me started on the 6th grade teacher who sent homework home the DAY BEFORE the lesson so see what the kids were able to understand before teaching it, ostensibly to be able to focus on the parts that were less understood and not worry if there were concepts that already made sense. I teach it how I know, kids actually fucking understands it, then comes home the next day in tears because the teacher taught it in a totally different method that confused the whole situation.

I thought I said don't get me started!
Umm, maybe you confused the situation by teaching it one way, when the teacher had a plan to teach it another? I would say that if there's a chance the teachers will teach things a different way, you should probably not "pre-teach" that stuff.

If you are concerned about how many books the school has, perhaps you can borrow one and photocopy the sections you need. If it's a problem that seems to recur, it might even be worth buying the book yourself. I bought a used Teacher's Edition to go with my son's German textbook last year, and it worked great.
Nice AB, you made your daughter cry.

Works out though. I tell her I drink because she cries.
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Re: The Official Pussification of America Thread (Mostly Sports)

Post by Shirley »

I all for exploring new and potentially better ways to teach math.

What pisses me off though is when they get overly caught up in the process that a kid uses to get the right answer. As anyone knows, there are often many ways to correctly do math. Don't tell a kid that HAVE to do it a different way when they've found one that works for them. That just signals to me that the teacher doesn't truly understand what they are teaching and are robotically following some curriculum.

If a kid gets a concept (addition, multiplication, etc), say great and move on. Don't force them to learn five other ways to do the same damn thing.
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Re: The Official Pussification of America Thread (Mostly Sports)

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Pruitt wrote: The truly bizarre thing is that the concepts of teaching math have changed many times since I was a pisher in short pants.

Why? (I have no answer)

I was no math whiz, but my Grandfather was a math teacher and the basics (including "borrowing a ten") worked with me. To this day, I can multiply two two digit numbers in my head in seconds based on the basic shit he taught me.
In the US, it is in large part due to companies making educational materials lobbying and dumping large campaign contributions on legislators.

Completely agree with HaulingCitgo. I was lucky the "new math" started before my son entered elementary school, so I was able to ease into it from the beginning. The first few weeks I was annoyed that they taught addition four different ways, and I didn't get why. After figuring out the new terms and seeing the progression, it made sense. Wrote memorization is faster, but doesn't teach a relationship between the numbers. Visualizing is a big part of it, and I think it's extremely important for some kids, as everyone learns differently. As the concepts become more complex, the new math helps make it easier to learn and problem solve.

I did have a problem with my daughter, as I wasn't using the right term, and she was frustrated because I was saying something different than they learned. My son had to chime in with the correct terminology, but that was a one off. Maybe I'm lucky, my all of the teachers my kids have had were very responsive to e-mails and happy to set up conferences to discuss issues. They have materials for helping parents with the new concepts, too.
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Re: The Official Pussification of America Thread (Mostly Sports)

Post by degenerasian »

The problem is the discrepancy between teaching methods and exams. Here in Alberta they have a provincial wide exam in Grades 6, 9 and 12.
It's great to teach kids many methods in the classroom but then the provincial exam tests speed (ie. solve 30 fractions in 5 minutes). The kid can solve maybe 10 and fails.
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Re: The Official Pussification of America Thread (Mostly Sports)

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Shirley wrote:I all for exploring new and potentially better ways to teach math.

What pisses me off though is when they get overly caught up in the process that a kid uses to get the right answer. As anyone knows, there are often many ways to correctly do math. Don't tell a kid that HAVE to do it a different way when they've found one that works for them. That just signals to me that the teacher doesn't truly understand what they are teaching and are robotically following some curriculum.

If a kid gets a concept (addition, multiplication, etc), say great and move on. Don't force them to learn five other ways to do the same damn thing.

I don't have a kid so I may be way off base here but isn't the goal to learn how to do these base concepts so that you'll know what you're doing later? I had to actually go and learn base sin/cos/sec/etc. functions in college because I needed to understand them to grasp Physics concepts, not just to get an answer to a problem. In high school I just answered the questions and moved on.
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Re: The Official Pussification of America Thread (Mostly Sports)

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Gunpowder wrote:
Shirley wrote:I all for exploring new and potentially better ways to teach math.

What pisses me off though is when they get overly caught up in the process that a kid uses to get the right answer. As anyone knows, there are often many ways to correctly do math. Don't tell a kid that HAVE to do it a different way when they've found one that works for them. That just signals to me that the teacher doesn't truly understand what they are teaching and are robotically following some curriculum.

If a kid gets a concept (addition, multiplication, etc), say great and move on. Don't force them to learn five other ways to do the same damn thing.

I don't have a kid so I may be way off base here but isn't the goal to learn how to do these base concepts so that you'll know what you're doing later? I had to actually go and learn base sin/cos/sec/etc. functions in college because I needed to understand them to grasp Physics concepts, not just to get an answer to a problem. In high school I just answered the questions and moved on.
Agree 100%. Learning the process is more important than getting the answer right, because you need the understanding when you move up to more complicated concepts. When I was a kid, I hated when teachers deducted points for not showing my work, because I preferred to take lazy shortcuts.

To add to the problem Degen raised, some of the standardized tests kids take in NJ are done on computers. Typing an essay for a 3rd or 4th grader who has never used a computer is an enormous problem. My kids' school has enough computers for an entire class, and they have a computer class of some sort every week. They take practice tests on the computer to prepare for the standardized test, and I'd venture a guest that every kid in his school has access to a computer at home. Some school districts don't have the funds for computer classes, and kids in these schools may not have computers at home. How are they supposed to compete on these tests? Then you have some garbage programs where under performing schools lose funding. How does that help?
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Re: The Official Pussification of America Thread (Mostly Sports)

Post by Shirley »

Gunpowder wrote:
Shirley wrote:I all for exploring new and potentially better ways to teach math.

What pisses me off though is when they get overly caught up in the process that a kid uses to get the right answer. As anyone knows, there are often many ways to correctly do math. Don't tell a kid that HAVE to do it a different way when they've found one that works for them. That just signals to me that the teacher doesn't truly understand what they are teaching and are robotically following some curriculum.

If a kid gets a concept (addition, multiplication, etc), say great and move on. Don't force them to learn five other ways to do the same damn thing.

I don't have a kid so I may be way off base here but isn't the goal to learn how to do these base concepts so that you'll know what you're doing later? I had to actually go and learn base sin/cos/sec/etc. functions in college because I needed to understand them to grasp Physics concepts, not just to get an answer to a problem. In high school I just answered the questions and moved on.
Yes, the goal is understanding. And the practice of doing it different ways is to help kids who see things differently. I get that. The problem is when they make every kid - even the ones who got it the first time - go through the rote steps of several other techniques. It's just tedium at that point for them. They aren't learning more math, they're learning that school sucks.

Not showing your work at all is a completely different issue and I'm all for schools forcing kids to show their work. Just don't force them to show their work to solve the same problem five different ways.
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Re: The Official Pussification of America Thread (Mostly Sports)

Post by Gunpowder »

It's not limited to that. Are these 5 ways each supposed to teach the kid something for future benefit? Maybe I don't understand the complaint.
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Re: The Official Pussification of America Thread (Mostly Sports)

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I think it would be easier to see with a specific example, but it's been a few years, so I can't remember one. You majored in physics, so I assume you were good at match. Imagine being in fifth grade and being forced to keep doing three-digit addition and subtraction in 4-5 different ways - showing all of your work and steps for each. It's just busy work. For the kids who already get it, it's torture and makes math not fun.
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Shirley wrote:I think it would be easier to see with a specific example, but it's been a few years, so I can't remember one. You majored in physics, so I assume you were good at match. Imagine being in fifth grade and being forced to keep doing three-digit addition and subtraction in 4-5 different ways - showing all of your work and steps for each. It's just busy work. For the kids who already get it, it's torture and makes math not fun.

lots of methods to multiply in this article

I'm a column multiplier (I'm old)
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Post by BSF21 »

degenerasian wrote:
Shirley wrote:I think it would be easier to see with a specific example, but it's been a few years, so I can't remember one. You majored in physics, so I assume you were good at match. Imagine being in fifth grade and being forced to keep doing three-digit addition and subtraction in 4-5 different ways - showing all of your work and steps for each. It's just busy work. For the kids who already get it, it's torture and makes math not fun.

lots of methods to multiply in this article

I'm a column multiplier (I'm old)
I'm not old and I've never seen it taught a different way that "column".
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Re: The Official Pussification of America Thread (Mostly Sports)

Post by degenerasian »

on this topic, a friend of mine teaches high school math and has a youtube channel with lessons you and your kids may find useful.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCj2UgU ... iIw/videos
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Post by degenerasian »

we changed our clocks last week? are you still bothered by it?

There is an argument (and maybe government proposal in Alberta) to do away with changing clocks because it causes car accidents, heart attacks and grumpy children.

http://www.metronews.ca/news/calgary/20 ... d-ndp.html

Is this government legislating stupidity or am i ignorant to a growing problem. changing clocks has never affected me at all. I just adjust on the Sunday and go to work as normal on Monday.
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Re: The Official Pussification of America Thread (Mostly Sports)

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I love daylight savings time. Having sunshine well into the evening is great!
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Image
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Post by Sabo »

rass wrote:Image
EDITED: I withdraw my "GFY, rass" comment because I'm suddenly remembering why you're posting a Robert Smith image in a conversation about Daylight Savings Time. It's a valid comment.
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I don't give two shits about the philosophy of The Cure.
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sancarlos wrote:I don't give two shits about the philosophy of The Cure.
Took me a minute, but I got the reference as well. And it has nothing to do with the "real" Robert Smith.
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brian wrote:
sancarlos wrote:I don't give two shits about the philosophy of The Cure.
Took me a minute, but I got the reference as well. And it has nothing to do with the "real" Robert Smith.
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sancarlos
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Re: The Official Pussification of America Thread (Mostly Sports)

Post by sancarlos »

A reference to the BDSF former poster?
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Re: The Official Pussification of America Thread (Mostly Sports)

Post by Steve of phpBB »

rass wrote:Image
Fantastic.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Shirley
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Re: The Official Pussification of America Thread (Mostly Sports)

Post by Shirley »

brian wrote:
sancarlos wrote:I don't give two shits about the philosophy of The Cure.
Took me a minute, but I got the reference as well. And it has nothing to do with the "real" Robert Smith.
Oh shit. I get it now. I didn't even realize it was something to get. Holy cow, how long ago was that now? A decade, at least, right?
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Re: The Official Pussification of America Thread (Mostly Sports)

Post by howard »

Who knows? Maybe, you were kidnapped, tied up, taken away and held for ransom.

Those days are gone forever
Over a long time ago
Oh yeah…
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Re: The Official Pussification of America Thread (Mostly Sports)

Post by Pruitt »

No one should be surprised that Canada - and specifically Ontario - has been held hostage by radical pussifiers for quite some time.

It's now the law in Ontario that ...
food service providers with 20 or more locations in the province -- such as restaurants, coffee shops, convenience stores, grocery stores and movie theatres -- to include the number of calories for each food and beverage item on their menus, labels or tags.
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Re: The Official Pussification of America Thread (Mostly Sports)

Post by brian »

Pruitt wrote:No one should be surprised that Canada - and specifically Ontario - has been held hostage by radical pussifiers for quite some time.

It's now the law in Ontario that ...
food service providers with 20 or more locations in the province -- such as restaurants, coffee shops, convenience stores, grocery stores and movie theatres -- to include the number of calories for each food and beverage item on their menus, labels or tags.
That's been the law in California and some other Western states for about a decade now.

ETA: And I don't see anything wrong with it. "Nanny-stating" would be charging more taxes on something because it has more calories or something like that. Information isn't a bad thing.
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