The OFFICIAL The National Thread

Okay . . . let's try this again.

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Re: The OFFICIAL The National Thread

Post by rass »

govmentchedda wrote:Sorry for flipping out over my excitement about this thread, then being Swamp AWOL for the rest of the week. Let's get a song ranking/discussion started. Album by album probably makes this more manageable. How about we go in chronological order with the big four starting with Alligator? Feel free to rank and sort as you wish.
OK. That's it.

I'm going to need an empirical explanation of why everyone else refuses to even acknowledge SSfDL.
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Re: The OFFICIAL The National Thread

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I've never really given it a listen. Your protestations are making me think I should.
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Re: The OFFICIAL The National Thread

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Murder Me Rachel and another song I'm blanking on are solid, but it's only a passable album because of who The National eventually became. If that was their plateau or an average album, it wouldn't be good.
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Re: The OFFICIAL The National Thread

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mister d wrote:Murder Me Rachel and another song I'm blanking on are solid, but it's only a passable album because of who The National eventually became. If that was their plateau or an average album, it wouldn't be good.
Give me two of their albums with a better opening song. In fact, I think the first 5 or 6 songs are all pretty great. You also mentioned that you like creepy, and "Lucky You" pretty much nails that to close it out.

Whatevs though. It's obvious The National has a different sound than the rest of their catalog, but I thought SSfDL fit with everything else. I was just surprised to see it completely disregarded by you guys.
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Re: The OFFICIAL The National Thread

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I take it back. "It Never Happened" was the other one in my head but "90 Mile Waterwall" is solid too. So 3-5 are good and the rest can go to hell.
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Re: The OFFICIAL The National Thread

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rass wrote:
mister d wrote:Murder Me Rachel and another song I'm blanking on are solid, but it's only a passable album because of who The National eventually became. If that was their plateau or an average album, it wouldn't be good.
Give me two of their albums with a better opening song. In fact, I think the first 5 or 6 songs are all pretty great. You also mentioned that you like creepy, and "Lucky You" pretty much nails that to close it out.

Whatevs though. It's obvious The National has a different sound than the rest of their catalog, but I thought SSfDL fit with everything else. I was just surprised to see it completely disregarded by you guys.
My inexperience with SSfDL and others before it may lie with when I became a fan of the band. I first heard them right after the release of Boxer. The album art of Alligator seemed very similar to Boxer, and the songs weren't all that much different. I'm not sure whether it was the band not playing much pre-Alligator live, or the music press marking a line at pre and post Alligator, but I haven't given any of it much of a listen.
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Re: The OFFICIAL The National Thread

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Listed in track order, overall ranking in parenthesis ...

Secret Meeting (6) - I've never heard this live but missed it inside the same stop twice. I bet its really good live.

Karen (8) - Like it enough.

Lit Up (1) - I love this song and will love it forever. I wish it was played at every concert I ever go to, regardless of who the band is.

Looking for Astronauts (13) - A lot of their songs are pretty repetitive with only like 16 unique lines total. Sometimes that's fine and other times its not. This is not. Placement in the cleanup slot after the best song doesn't help at all.

Daughters of the SoHo Riots (7) - I get why people don't care much for this and wouldn't put up an argument for its merits, I just like it.

Baby We'll Be Fine (11) - Boring.

Friend of Mine (10) - There's something close there but it never comes together.

Val Jester (12) - I bet some people quit on the album at this point (or before it) and that sucks because the back-end is stronger than the front by a mile.

All the Wine (2) - Tremendous song, seems to not get nearly enough hype.

Abel (5) - Probably the song off this album I'd use to sell it to a friend who thinks I only listen to slow, downer music.

The Geese of Beverly Road (3) - Last show, I learned Beverly Rd. was a few blocks south of where I grabbed a pre-show beer. That was cool. I bet some day I walk down there and maybe by the house one of the Dessners owns despite how creepy I acknowledge that is.

City Middle (9) - Slightly better version of Friend of Mine.

Mr. November (4) - I imagine this would be considered an underranking by most. Its not that I don't like it and its possible I've just heard it too much and always live. If I didn't listen to them for a couple years, this would probably bounce higher.


Tier 1: All-time The National mixtape songs.
Tier 2: Songs I'd be very happy to hear at a show.
Tier 3: Songs I like enough but would think "I kinda wish this didn't take up a setlist slot" at a show.
Tier 4: Boring or bad or both.


Tier 1: Lit Up, All The Wine, The Geese of Beverly Road, Mr. November, Abel
Tier 2: Secret Meeting, Daughters of the SoHo Riots
Tier 3: Karen, City Middle
Tier 4: Friend of Mine, Baby We'll Be Fine, Val Jester, Looking for Astronauts


Overall: More tier 4 than most of their albums which is the issue. If you turn each of their albums into an EP, this probably wins without much debate.
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Re: The OFFICIAL The National Thread

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Just read back, looks like we're almost in total lockstep here.
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Re: The OFFICIAL The National Thread

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mister d wrote:Just read back, looks like we're almost in total lockstep here.
Pretty close. I get your complaint about the one song that seems to be up for most debate between us, but I really like the "permanent piece of my medium sized American heart" line.
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Re: The OFFICIAL The National Thread

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You know how sometimes you find lines from popular songs in older, unreleased tracks?
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Re: The OFFICIAL The National Thread

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mister d wrote:You know how sometimes you find lines from popular songs in older, unreleased tracks?
Is that one from somewhere else?
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Re: The OFFICIAL The National Thread

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I assumed that was just an uncontrollable Chris Farley-like outburst.
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Re: The OFFICIAL The National Thread

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Sometimes they seem to like a lyric but the song is no good so you hear it in a later song. Like there's a couple lines from "Wake Up Your Saints" that are in a few more recent songs.
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Re: The OFFICIAL The National Thread

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govmentchedda wrote:Tier 3
Karen...
mister d wrote:Tier 3: Karen...
Yikes.

Two of my favorite lines:
It's a common fetish for a doting man
To ballerina on the coffee table, cock in hand
Karen, put me in a chair, fuck me and make me a drink
I've lost direction and I'm past my peak
Plus "feathers falling on my feet" calls ahead to one of my favorite songs of theirs.
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Re: The OFFICIAL The National Thread

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rass wrote:
govmentchedda wrote:Tier 3
Karen...
mister d wrote:Tier 3: Karen...
Yikes.

Two of my favorite lines:
It's a common fetish for a doting man
To ballerina on the coffee table, cock in hand
Karen, put me in a chair, fuck me and make me a drink
I've lost direction and I'm past my peak
Plus "feathers falling on my feet" calls ahead to one of my favorite songs of theirs.
For me, that great set of lines doesn't make up for my lack of enjoyment of the music.
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Re: The OFFICIAL The National Thread

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govmentchedda wrote: For me, that great set of lines doesn't make up for my lack of enjoyment of the music.
I like the piano heaviness, but I totally get that in general. Though there are very few of their songs (post The National) that grate on me musically. Even my aforementioned issue with Brainy was probably just from overexposure. It usaully takes me forever to start paying attention to lyrics in songs (beyond the chorus).
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Re: The OFFICIAL The National Thread

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Karen was actually the one I struggled with the most because I really like the mental picture of the song. It was a 2-3 versus City Middle's 3-4, but it didn't quite seem good enough for Tier 2.
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Re: The OFFICIAL The National Thread

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To note going in: This is my singular desert island album, so the reviews are going to be mad high. The basic theme is the trepidation that comes with growing up which isn't an uncommon theme, but this is from the rare perspective of safe comfort versus being totally lost. High Violet continues on this, but mixing in fear of parenting, so these two albums were probably released at the perfect time for me to love them.

Fake Empire (4) - This isn't the best opening song ever, but I can't think of another one that better sets the stage for how an album is going to go.

Mistaken for Strangers (1) - Top 5 song for them, both in my world and by objective rankings (I think). This is the song that turned me (and I imagine thousands of other white collar middle class growing uppers) onto the band. The lyrics make a lot more sense knowing the band is full of college grads who worked "normal" post-college jobs until hitting with Alligator.

Brainy (2) - On certain days, this is my favorite song in the world. As bad as Alligator starts off[/b] ("Lit Up" excepted), Boxer is the opposite.

Squalor Victoria (7) - Better song live than on the album.

Green Gloves (12) - This song ranking 5th out of the first 5 songs says a lot more about the album than the song itself. Nice creepiness, I think is another one about semi-depression over being out of the young and having fun phase of life.

Slow Show (5) - Lyrically, maybe the best song on the album.

Apartment Story (3) - This ranking shit is impossible. I bet I completely disagree with my own list in a couple months. In a perfect world, they extend the outro like they do live and this is the album closer.

Start a War (14) - First song I'm really not into.

Guest Room (8) - Same vein as "Slow Show". Love the lyrics. This should be the closer on the future remastered release if my modified "Apartment Story" suggestion isn't taken.

Racing Like a Pro (13) - I think sometimes they really like their lyrics but it never sets right to the music or inside the album. Or maybe I just really like this album's slow-but-not-too-slow pace and this and "Start a War" are too slow.

Ada (6) - True story: Missus D liked this name for a kid, I didn't really, so I stripped it from all our playlists before heading into the hospital just so it wouldn't come on during labor and be misconstrued as a sign.

Gospel (9) - Never mind, this is a solid closer for the official part of the album.

Blank Slate (10) - I really, really like the song I'm ranking 10th. Especially the "gonna tackle young girls off their beautiful bikes" line. No idea why this wasn't part of the official release and sitting middle album somewhere.

Santa Clara (11) - See above.


I'm pretty solid on my tiers, maybe a Tier 2 could move up, but nothing else is going down to Tier 3 and nothing is dropping to Tier 4. Every song on the album was worth releasing which is pretty insane given that I tend to dislike a song until I decide to like it rather than vice versa. The rankings inside of Tier 2 would change daily. The only downside is that there's a very good chance I'll never love a new album as much as I did and do love this one. Which I guess goes perfectly with the whole theme of the album, huh? Pretty deep.

Tier 1: Mistaken for Strangers, Brainy, Apartment Story, Fake Empire, Slow Show, Ada

Tier 2: Squalor Victoria, Guest Room, Gospel, Blank Slate, Santa Clara, Green Gloves

Tier 3: Racing Like a Pro, Start a War

Tier 4:
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Re: The OFFICIAL The National Thread

Post by govmentchedda »

Yikes! Can't read this yet. Will work on my grouping later.
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Re: The OFFICIAL The National Thread

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My rankings of mister d's rankings for Boxer

Tier 1: I completely agree
Tier 2: Close enough to not quibble
Tier 3: Very high on songs I don't like
Tier 4: Low to very low on songs I love

Tier 1: Mistaken for Strangers, Apartment Story, Fake Empire, Slow Show, Ada

Tier 2: Racing Like a Pro, Squalor Victoria, Guest Room, Green Gloves, Blank Slate, Santa Clara

Tier 3: Brainy

Tier 4: Gospel, Start a War


Notes:
- I do love "Gospel"

- I couldn't ever understand what he was saying in "Slow Show". I always heard it as "gun show"and not "dumb show", and still like my version better. This is also the only redeeming thing about the original "29 Years"

- I don't miss the theoretical tracks. As far as the EP goes, "..., Virginia" is great, but maybe doesn't fit on the full album:
A cool, tall, drink of water
is all you ever wanted to be
And if you had another wish to wish
you'd be fun and moving
You're tall, long legged
and your heart's full of liquor
And me and everybody are just ice in a glass
- I also really like this line, and the entire song:
You were always weird but I never had to hold you by the edges like I do now
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Re: The OFFICIAL The National Thread

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I think 9-11 on my list (12-14 on the album) suffer from album placement more than anything else. I imagine if Squalor Victoria and Blank Slate had originally been flipped on the album, they'd be in different spots on my rankings.
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Re: The OFFICIAL The National Thread

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Re: The OFFICIAL The National Thread

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Re: The OFFICIAL The National Thread

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Have you heard about that box set that The National is releasing? A couple of years ago, they performed one song ('Sorrow') for six effing hours at MoMA. Now they're releasing a box set of that performance. 105 versions of the same song. On vinyl, naturally.

Yeah, the proceeds are going to charity, but still, this is the kind of thing that makes me understand why the rest of the world hates us. ('Us' being the kinds of people who start threads about indie bands on sports message boards.)
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Re: The OFFICIAL The National Thread

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Ick, lets hope this doesn't get out. I took enough shit when they were just doing it at MoMA.
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Re: The OFFICIAL The National Thread

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Yeah, I saw that Sorrow release. The song wasn't high on my list in the first place, I can't imagine slogging through 6 hours of it.
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Re: The OFFICIAL The National Thread

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While I have not listened to it yet, Jay Mohr's most recent podcast episode (Mohr Stories #280) is an interview of Matt Berninger.
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Re: The OFFICIAL The National Thread

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And downloaded.
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Re: The OFFICIAL The National Thread

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Should have mentioned this on the original post, but while it doesn't seem like interviewing a musician is up Jay Mohr's alley, one of his earlier podcasts was a fantastic interview with Rufus Wainwright.
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Re: The OFFICIAL The National Thread

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Three takeaways
1. Jay Mohr is horrible interviewing him. He can't help himself from cutting Matt off, and bounces all over the place.
2. Matt moved to L.A. ?!?
3. Matt is working on a new National album, as well as another album with an old friend.
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Re: The OFFICIAL The National Thread

Post by tennbengal »

bapo! wrote:Have you heard about that box set that The National is releasing? A couple of years ago, they performed one song ('Sorrow') for six effing hours at MoMA. Now they're releasing a box set of that performance. 105 versions of the same song. On vinyl, naturally.

Yeah, the proceeds are going to charity, but still, this is the kind of thing that makes me understand why the rest of the world hates us. ('Us' being the kinds of people who start threads about indie bands on sports message boards.)
Confession: this sounds terrible.
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Re: The OFFICIAL The National Thread

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govmentchedda wrote:1. Jay Mohr is horrible interviewing him. He can't help himself from cutting Matt off, and bounces all over the place.
He does those two things all the time on his podcast and makes fun of himself for the first one, saying he hates listening to his podcast since he constantly cuts off his guest.
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Re: The OFFICIAL The National Thread

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Image
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Re: The OFFICIAL The National Thread

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Album only.
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Re: The OFFICIAL The National Thread

Post by rass »

So is a massive collection of Grateful Dead covers curated by members of The National enough to finally get mister d and rush to get together and fuck like we've all been rooting for, or will it just drive them further apart?
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Re: The OFFICIAL The National Thread

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rass wrote:So is a massive collection of Grateful Dead covers curated by members of The National enough to finally get mister d and rush to get together and fuck like we've all been rooting for, or will it just drive them further apart?
You had me at New Speedway Boogie covered by Courtney Barnett.
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Re: The OFFICIAL The National Thread

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♫ I like drugs, drugs are the best ♫

[jams for 45 minutes]

"Wow, did you hear the instrument trade at the 27 minute mark when Matt took over on the drums while Bryan threw up bile???"
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Re: The OFFICIAL The National Thread

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bump
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Re: The OFFICIAL The National Thread

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rass wrote:So is a massive collection of Grateful Dead covers curated by members of The National enough to finally get mister d and rush to get together and fuck like we've all been rooting for, or will it just drive them further apart?
The National's take on Peggy-O was pretty freakin solid. As was Real Estate's Here Comes Sunshine.

Many other h/t's I'd dole out but am too lazy to type up.

edit: Oh yeah, fucking throwin' some love towards Stephen Malkmus for the China Cat > Rider...
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Re: The OFFICIAL The National Thread

Post by govmentchedda »

As someone with no Dead history, I really liked The War on Drugs' Touch of Grey, Bruce Hornsby and DeYarmand Edison's, "Black Muddy River", Phosphorescent's "Sugaree".
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