NBA Thread

[A_B]

Can the Heat do it? ANd will it leave them on empty for the playoffs?

[Ryan]

For the record, LeBron's dunk does not top D.Jordan, but I still enjoyed it. I also liked him hanging on the rim after a later dunk, daring the refs to T him up again.

[FredRomero]

Cool dunk, but dunking over a much older, smaller guy who was out of position because your team had numbers isn't worth the nonstop ESPN "is this the greatest dunk of all time?" coverage.

[DC47]

Bob Lanier didn't fall to the level of having to do this "dunking" thing to get most of his points. It's a sign of lacking game.

[Johnny Hotcakes]

That play was a microcosm of Jason Terry's entire season.

[DC47]

I was very impressed by both teams. There was some ferocious playoff-level defense out there, and both sides still got their points.

How can Boston be hanging wit the good teams? Playing without the all-world Rondo, not to mention Sullinger and Barbosa. Last night, they did well without Garnett as well. Jeff Green was out of this world. I've never seen him have even a good game. Is he proving to be the player they paid for?

[FredRomero]

I was very impressed by both teams. There was some ferocious playoff-level defense out there, and both sides still got their points.

How can Boston be hanging wit the good teams? Playing without the all-world Rondo, not to mention Sullinger and Barbosa. Last night, they did well without Garnett as well. Jeff Green was out of this world. I've never seen him have even a good game. Is he proving to be the player they paid for?

I hope so. I keep wondering what a healthy Green and Bradley would have done last year against the Heat. As far as this year, they're surviving because Pierce and Garnett are still damn good, even though they'll probably be broken down by the playoffs.

[Gunpowder]

For the record, LeBron's dunk does not top D.Jordan, but I still enjoyed it. I also liked him hanging on the rim after a later dunk, daring the refs to T him up again.

I had to explain to all of my Facefuck friends (only 40% of whom are real) that it was the second best dunk, of its kind, this week.

[Gunpowder]

Cool dunk, but dunking over a much older, smaller guy who was out of position because your team had numbers isn't worth the nonstop ESPN "is this the greatest dunk of all time?" coverage.

It's LeBron. Have you missed the "LeBron should do the dunk contest, he'd kill it! Look at these warmup dunks!", and they show him doing between the legs things that Andre Iguodala did, 7 years ago, while balancing a cage of ferrets on his head. But it's LeBron! Everything he does is taken up three levels because he's LeBron. He won the McDonald's dunk contest in high school because his name is LeBron.

That being said yeah he dunked all over that little leg-shaving dude. And it was pretty awesome.

[DC47]

Never really seen an awesome dunk. It's not a big-time skill, so they top out at "pretty good." Larry McNeill won a dunk contest.

[Gunpowder]

Never really seen an awesome dunk. It's not a big-time skill, so they top out at "pretty good." Larry McNeill won a dunk contest.

And I'm sure Johnny McNobody won a three-point contest once. And the 2006 Cardinals won a World Series.

[DC47]

There are dozens -- maybe hundreds -- of high school and college kids who can throw down nice dunks in the same situations that Jordan and James were in recently.

None can make passes in traffic like Paul and Nash. None can beat you one-on-one like Bryant and James. None can defend like Andre Iguodala and Tony Allen. None can hit threes even at the rate of Steve Novak.

[Gunpowder]

There are dozens -- maybe hundreds -- of high school and college kids who can throw down nice dunks in the same situations that Jordan and James were in recently.

None can make passes in traffic like Paul and Nash. None can beat you one-on-one like Bryant and James. None can defend like Andre Iguodala and Tony Allen. None can hit threes even at the rate of Steve Novak.

Just because you state it definitively doesn't mean that it's true, Mr. Purist. I'm sure a few high school kids can manage to throw passes while four of their teammates jump over dudes and dunk.

John Wall couldn't throw passes or beat you one-on-one in high school? Szczerbiak couldn't hit a three in college?

[Gunpowder]

I'd like to see a contest where they round up even five high school kids that can pull off that dunk. I'm sure it will be packed, while the "throw a pass in traffic" committee scours under rocks for just one outlier.

[A_B]

I hadn't seen the dunk, but dadgum his hands were 18 inches above the rim it looked like.

[Gunpowder]

I hadn't seen the dunk, but dadgum his hands were 18 inches above the rim it looked like.

I used to do that in high school.

[A_B]

I hadn't seen the dunk, but dadgum his hands were 18 inches above the rim it looked like.

I used to do that in high school.

With a tennis ball, I bet.

[Gunpowder]

Swamp callback!

[Jerloma]

Can the Heat do it? ANd will it leave them on empty for the playoffs?

Yeah but it wouldn't be fair because LBJ took less money to play for a better team and announced it on live TV.

[DC47]

Just because you state it definitively doesn't mean that it's true, Mr. Purist. I'm sure a few high school kids can manage to throw passes while four of their teammates jump over dudes and dunk.

John Wall couldn't throw passes or beat you one-on-one in high school? Szczerbiak couldn't hit a three in college?

Dozens to hundreds of high school and college kids could routinely pull off the dunks that Jordan and James did. Approximately none could routinely pass like Paul and Nash, defend like Allen and Iguodala, etc.

Even an enormous outlier like John Wall in high school couldn't beat NBA defenders at anything like the rate that James and Bryant do now. He can't even do this now.

[Gunpowder]

I think more high school kids could routinely make great passes against high school competition than could jump over their opponents and throw down dunks on them from just ahead of the free throw line.

[A_B]

I can't figure out which side of this argument the grass peener is on.

[Gunpowder]

I can't figure out which side of this argument the grass peener is on.

High school athletes cannot routinely pull off dunks in traffic like these two cited recently in the Swamp, while more than one or two of them can consistently make good passes against their competition.

[DC47]

I think more high school kids could routinely make great passes against high school competition than could jump over their opponents and throw down dunks on them from just ahead of the free throw line.

I don't know why making passes against high school competition is relevant.

My point is that there is a much bigger gap between the elite players and the masses (e.g., high school and college plaers) in shooting, passing, one-on-one play, and defending than there is in dunking. Dunking is relatively easy.

[FredRomero]

If dunking was just as easy in the NBA, we would see a lot more of those college players pulling off those great dunks when they go pro. Poor Darvin Ham and Hakim Warrick.

[Shirley]

I hadn't seen the dunk until just now.



I don't think that was nearly as good as DeAndre Jordan's. And no, there most certainly are not many high school kids who could throw down a dunk like this:



That's just ridiculous. And Jordan is left-handed too.

Any kid that big and strong who could jump like that would be a household name already (among hoops fans, that is).

[DC47]

If dunking was just as easy in the NBA, we would see a lot more of those college players pulling off those great dunks when they go pro. Poor Darvin Ham and Hakim Warrick.

They do. Witness DeMar Jordan. He is hardly an elite player in the NBA and wasn't in college. Players like Ham didn't see enough court time to dunk much. Witness the spectacle of Larry McNeill winning the dunk title. I think he might have been wearing a tee shirt without a logo as he wasn't good enough to be on an NBA roster at the time he won it.

[Sabo]

Can the Heat do it? ANd will it leave them on empty for the playoffs?

Yeah but it wouldn't be fair because LBJ took less money to play for a better team and announced it on live TV.

Not true.

[Gunpowder]

I think more high school kids could routinely make great passes against high school competition than could jump over their opponents and throw down dunks on them from just ahead of the free throw line.

I don't know why making passes against high school competition is relevant.

My point is that there is a much bigger gap between the elite players and the masses (e.g., high school and college plaers) in shooting, passing, one-on-one play, and defending than there is in dunking. Dunking is relatively easy.

So is hitting a three pointer. Dunking an oop over a guy from 5 feet away from the rim is not relatively easy.

I doubt much of this level of elite dunking goes on in high school.

[Gunpowder]

If dunking was just as easy in the NBA, we would see a lot more of those college players pulling off those great dunks when they go pro. Poor Darvin Ham and Hakim Warrick.

They do. Witness DeMar Jordan. He is hardly an elite player in the NBA and wasn't in college. Players like Ham didn't see enough court time to dunk much. Witness the spectacle of Larry McNeill winning the dunk title. I think he might have been wearing a tee shirt without a logo as he wasn't good enough to be on an NBA roster at the time he won it.

• You earlier cited Steve Novak as an example of NBA elite-ness. Is he an elite NBA player?

• Larry McNeill, whoever he is, winning a dunk contest shows that he was better at throwing down cool dunks that day than the other 5 people who were competing. Now witness the spectacle of Voshon Lenard winning a three point contest.

[DC47]

I think more high school kids could routinely make great passes against high school competition than could jump over their opponents and throw down dunks on them from just ahead of the free throw line.

I don't know why making passes against high school competition is relevant.

My point is that there is a much bigger gap between the elite players and the masses (e.g., high school and college plaers) in shooting, passing, one-on-one play, and defending than there is in dunking. Dunking is relatively easy.

So is hitting a three pointer. Dunking an oop over a guy from 5 feet away from the rim is not relatively easy.

I doubt much of this level of elite dunking goes on in high school.

Our difference of opinion may come down to this. I think dunking over a player who is 6-10 inches shorter and 50-80 pounds lighter from five feet away is actually something that dozens of high school and college players can do pretty routinely.

[Jerloma]

Can the Heat do it? ANd will it leave them on empty for the playoffs?

Yeah but it wouldn't be fair because LBJ took less money to play for a better team and announced it on live TV.

Not true.

He's the 9th highest paid player in the league. I'm not shedding a tear for him but I'm thinking he gets a maximum contract in Cleveland.

[govmentchedda]

I love that DC47 is our version of Colin Quinn's twitter feed. Love it.

[Sabo]

Yeah but it wouldn't be fair because LBJ took less money to play for a better team and announced it on live TV.

Not true.

He's the 9th highest paid player in the league. I'm not shedding a tear for him but I'm thinking he gets a maximum contract in Cleveland.

I hope he gets the max contract in Cleveland. But back when he fucked the Cavs in the ass without lube a few years ago, the best contract he could get was from the Cavs since they could offer him more years. After he announced on TV he was going to Miami, he actually signed the Cavs contract and then they traded him to Miami for a couple of draft picks and salary cap allocation space. So no, he signed the most lucrative contract he could get. The only reason the Cavs did it is so they could get something out of the entire transaction.

ETA: Apparently there is a limit to the number of nested quotes. It's three.

[Shirley]

Our difference of opinion may come down to this. I think dunking over a player who is 6-10 inches shorter and 50-80 pounds lighter from five feet away is actually something that dozens of high school and college players can do pretty routinely.

I've watched a lot of basketball in my life and I haven't seen many dunks like that before. Even in the NBA, where massive dunks happen every game, THAT dunk drew massive attention and will be talked about for years. You really think that's a normal occurrence at the high school level?

Keep in mind that of the tens of thousands of high school players in the country, DeAndre Jordan was ranked #8 in his class, so it's not like he's some random schmo. And even for him, that was a remarkable dunk.

You can argue that lots of people can dunk, but there aren't more than a handful of people in the world his size who could dunk like that.

[DSafetyGuy]

I love that DC47 is our version of Colin Quinn's twitter feed. Love it.

I was thinking the same thing (promoted).

[Ryan]

When life (the NBA) gives you lemons (flashy dunkers with no substances), make lemonade (medicine ball dribbling drills).

[DC47]

Our difference of opinion may come down to this. I think dunking over a player who is 6-10 inches shorter and 50-80 pounds lighter from five feet away is actually something that dozens of high school and college players can do pretty routinely.

I've watched a lot of basketball in my life and I haven't seen many dunks like that before. Even in the NBA, where massive dunks happen every game, THAT dunk drew massive attention and will be talked about for years. You really think that's a normal occurrence at the high school level?

Keep in mind that of the tens of thousands of high school players in the country, DeAndre Jordan was ranked #8 in his class, so it's not like he's some random schmo. And even for him, that was a remarkable dunk.

You can argue that lots of people can dunk, but there aren't more than a handful of people in the world his size who could dunk like that.

Regarding dunks like this being "normal" in high school, that's not quite what I said. I said dozens of players can do this at the high school and college level. That still makes it a small percentage of players at these levels -- less than 1%. So it's not "normal". Just not so uncommon, even for youngsters, that these plays are really special.

Jordan's dunk was pretty good. Primarily because he threw it down so hard. If he had done this against, say, Andre Drummond who was in a good position to contest his move, rather than a point guard who wasn't, it would have been very good indeed. I think there are dozens of high school and college players who could do the same against a much smaller player in 50% of tries. Perhaps with somewhat less velocity, if that matters.

James' dunk was barely in the good category. I am perpetually amazed that plays like that draw significant attention. He made perhaps 50 better moves in that game, on offense and defense. But the dunk is a "highlight."

I grant that there are great dunks. They are rare athletic displays of power and grace. Typically they involve dunking on equal physical competition, not pygmies. And they involve some kind of difficult movement before the ball goes in the hole. A dribble or two, a twist in the air.

Jordan's dunk had little of these things, and James' had virtually none. So yeah, in my view, this was nothing special. It's just another symptom of how the basketball viewing public has a limited understanding of the game. Perhaps less than used to exist, but this is harder to say. Could just be nostalgia.

But of course, all of this is just my opinion, not a fact. No doubt I've reached the curmudgeon stage where it goes without saying that everyone should just get the hell off my lawn. And stop hanging on the rim in my driveway.

[Shirley]

DC, I'm actually with you on dunks in general. I especially fail to get why people get so worked up about "getting dunked on." In many cases, the guy who got dunked on was the only defender with the balls to actually try to stop the play. I hate that it's considered a bad thing to not concede a dunk nowadays.

That said, Jordan's dunk was worthy of praise, and little of that (to me) has to do with Brandon Knight getting clobbered in the process. I like that Knight took a crack at stopping it, however futile that seems in hindsight.

[ZMan]

I still say whether it was a dunk, a layup, or a trey, you just scored 2-3 points in a 100 point game. Stop fucking yelling like you scored the game winner at the buzzer, and get the fuck down court for some D.