The Jurgen Klinsman Experience

[Nonlinear FC]

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2015/10/0 ... paign=Paid" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oral history of the 2002 US-Mex World Cup game in Korea. I dig this format, so I found this a fun read... Particularly hearing from some of the Mexican players.

But, to keep it on topic, deep in the article is this gem from Arena:

The pride is something that I think is lost today – how we worked really hard to build that team to have the right values and the right kind of people on the roster and represent our country. Just good old-fashioned American values; that's no longer the case anymore. ... It didn't mean it was perfect all the time – it certainly wasn't – but those guys who wore the US jersey were fabulous.


You think he and Landon tip back a drink or two and sharpen their knives out there in LA, or what?

[Steve of phpBB]

Between the U23 game in the morning (win over Honduras and in the Olympics) and the national team in the evening, it's probably the biggest day for international soccer in US history without the World Cup being involved.

I dunno. Qualifications for second-tier tournaments are nice, but I think the 2009 Confederations Cup final game against Brazil (after beating Spain dos a cero) was probably bigger than both of Saturday's games combined.

I have my tickets for the U-23 semifinals. The tickets include the Mexico-Canada game as well, but I don't know if I'll stick around for that or go home to watch the Cubs.

There are still plenty of good seats available, Brian, if you want to make the drive.

[brian]

Between the U23 game in the morning (win over Honduras and in the Olympics) and the national team in the evening, it's probably the biggest day for international soccer in US history without the World Cup being involved.

I dunno. Qualifications for second-tier tournaments are nice, but I think the 2009 Confederations Cup final game against Brazil (after beating Spain dos a cero) was probably bigger than both of Saturday's games combined.

I have my tickets for the U-23 semifinals. The tickets include the Mexico-Canada game as well, but I don't know if I'll stick around for that or go home to watch the Cubs.

There are still plenty of good seats available, Brian, if you want to make the drive.

Going to see My Morning Jacket and Strand of Oaks that night, so pass unfortunately. If the game goes into extra time I might be faced with a difficult decision myself (watch it or miss Strand of Oaks).

[wlu_lax6]

So if you get rid of Jurgen, who do you hire?

[Sabo]

So if you get rid of Jurgen, who do you hire?

I'd welcome Bob Bradley back, but I doubt he'd want the job if Sunil is still there.

[brian]

I'm fine with Jurgen through this World Cup cycle mostly because I don't really think there are any other viable options out there, but I'd like to see him finally try and settle on a semi-consistent starting 11. Especially where the back four.

[Steve of phpBB]

I don't pay much attention to coaching drama, but can someone explain to me why "Klinsman Out" has become such a thing?

Didn't the US do pretty well in the World Cup only last year, surviving the Group of Death and all?

Is it because of what the US has done this year, or is it because people don't think the US did well enough in the Cup?

Because I really can't see how anything the US has done this year really matters. The Gold Cup and some friendlies, right?

[brian]

He's never really been a favorite amongst a lot of fans because of his detached demeanor, his treatment of Landycakes before the last World Cup and a dozen other death by paper cuts. None of those things really bothered me very much. I think the US is better than they were before he took over and is building to be better going forward which is arguably the most important thing. Being a national team coach in the United States these days is almost as much about recruiting dual-nationals from Mexico and Europe as it is tactics and he's gotten the job done there as well.

[The Sybian]

I don't pay much attention to coaching drama, but can someone explain to me why "Klinsman Out" has become such a thing?

Didn't the US do pretty well in the World Cup only last year, surviving the Group of Death and all?

Is it because of what the US has done this year, or is it because people don't think the US did well enough in the Cup?

Because I really can't see how anything the US has done this year really matters. The Gold Cup and some friendlies, right?

I think the Gold Cup is somewhat important, and they looked fuckawful throughout the tournament, even the games they won. The results and performances are all over the place. They looked amazing against Germany and Holland, beating them both in Europe, then to follow that up with utter garbage performances. There is absolutely no identity or consistency under Jurgen. The formations and game plans are all over the place, and he does a horrible job matching game plans to the strength of the players on the field.

Everyone should be happy with the results in the WC, but Jurgen fucked up royally by focusing the game plan around Jozy, then not bringing a second player with Jozy's skillset. Eddie Johnson isn't the same player as Jozy, but I think EJ would have been a smooth transition. Again, Jurgen didn't do much to adjust to the personnel he had.

I'm torn on the decision to leave Landon at home. If Landon was out of shape and rusty, I think Jurgen made a ballsy power move to bring a more deserving player. OTOH, Landon would have brought a great deal of experience and confidence. At the time, I respected the decision, knowing it was the difficult and unpopular option, but the way the tournament played out, we really could have used Donovan. Some people say Donovan earned the spot, but Jurgen pulled an egotistical power move showing he won't tolerate a lack of commitment, like Landon's sabbatical. If that was the reason Donovan stayed home, then fuck Jurgen.

[Steve of phpBB]

Isn't now the perfect time for formations and game plans to be all over the place?

[brian]

Isn't now the perfect time for formations and game plans to be all over the place?

Not if you're serious about winning a major tournament like the Gold Cup. I think there's a sense amongst some out there that he didn't take the tournament as seriously as he needed to. I get that. But at the end of the day, it all pretty much comes down to the World Cup if you're a USMNT fan so if it results in us qualifying more easily and being better prepared for Russia 2018 then I can live with it.

I don't really get the calls to replace him unless you have a candidate that you think can do better and I don't see that person out there. If anyone says Arena or Bradley then I'm going to just laugh in their face.

[wlu_lax6]

U.S. is under performing in games that matter.
When the U.S. wins it is not due to playing "Jurgen" soccer, but rather playing like they did with Bradley and Arena (counter, defensive, etc).
US Soccer is not doing a great job telling the story of how Jurgen as the technical director is building a great foundation for the future.

As a recruiter of talent, it has been up and down. Where is Green? Aaron J can't stay healthy. The Young Euros who have moved back to the MLS and are not winning spots on the National team.

[Nonlinear FC]

I feel like I'm turning into a broken record, so I'm going lift the needle to the next track...

The issue was nailed by Syb (I think)... US Soccer is doing a horrible job of tying in JK's Technical Director role with what he's doing with the national team. The comfort zone for the US has been counter-attack and extremely strong defense once the ball is over the half. Often skipping the midfield to avoid turnovers in our third. Klinsmann is trying to move the US forward with high press on D and a possession, quick strike offense. Quick strike isn't long ball, it's putting together 3 or 4 passes probing for a weakness, which often comes from the outside backs pressing into the play.

It's a very cool offense, but you need talent all over the park to execute it. That's why a 42 year old DMB is out there on Saturday. That's how rare that talent is... and why it's extremely risky to put all your chips on that bet.

In a lot of ways, I respect what he's trying to do. But I totally agree that he needs to explain himself, or have his flacks do a better job of explaining why this transformation is important. Right now, he looks like the captain of ship that's lost its radar nav.

[The Sybian]

Isn't now the perfect time for formations and game plans to be all over the place?

Not during the Gold Cup. I'm all for casting a wide net to give players a chance early in a WC cycle, but Jurgen isn't able to get players to gel or play consistently, and I think it is in part because he is too experimental across time, and completely unwillingly to adapt during games where the plan isn't working.

I wouldn't fire Jurgen, because I do like what he is doing trying to build for the future by revamping youth soccer and the infrastructure for US Soccer. We just need a Joachim Löw next to Klinsmann on the bench making in-game tactical decisions.

[P.D.X.]

So Darlington Nagbe finally got his okay to suit up for USA. Nagbe's dad was a Liberian international. P.D.X. ---does he get a sniff by Jurgen?

He's routinely dominated other USMNT (current & former) players in MLS games, so I think he gets a look. However, his skill set and positioning is so peculiar that unless Jurgen can find the perfect role for him, he may flop. Matt Doyle's take.

Nagbe's been called up for the Nov. matches. Even though it's in the middle of MLS playoffs, I'd love to see him get some PT. He's been lights out for the last league games, with insane passing and possession stats. Could really be a shot in the arm for the US midfield.

[mister d]

I feel cool right now because I know who he is independent of the callup.

Do you have a site for the advanced stats or just rely on the good twitterers calling it out from time to time?

[P.D.X.]

I feel cool right now because I know who he is independent of the callup.

Do you have a site for the advanced stats or just rely on the good twitterers calling it out from time to time?

I use the boxscore from MLS site for individual games (it's not bad), but for aggregated performance the best I've found is squawka.com.

(OPTA is the kingpin in the soccer data world, licensing to organizations like the 2 above, as well as to journalists and media groups, but is otherwise unavailable to the general public.)

[The Sybian]

I feel cool right now because I know who he is independent of the callup.

Do you have a site for the advanced stats or just rely on the good twitterers calling it out from time to time?

"I knew Nagbe before he was capped."

[mister d]

Oooo ... are the squawka performance scores usually solid? That's exactly what I'm looking for; something to bounce up against if I think someone had a good or bad game.

[P.D.X.]

Oooo ... are the squawka performance scores usually solid? That's exactly what I'm looking for; something to bounce up against if I think someone had a good or bad game.

Here's a bit on their methodology. I really wish they'd post how they score individual actions. I've surmised that a goal is worth ~40 attack points.

[mister d]

Oh man, this is huge. Thanks.

[wlu_lax6]

so Grant Wahl says he is hearing from his sources that if the U.S. does not get 6 points during this international window, the Jurgen Klinsman Experience may end. His follow up on those rumors have gotten denials, but he also expected that from the official sources he tried to verify the sources.

[The Sybian]

No excitement over last night's 0-0 draw in Port Of Spain?

[Sabo]

No excitement over last night's 0-0 draw in Port Of Spain?

Couldn't watch it, since it was on a channel that probably has 100,000 subscribers.

[The Sybian]

No excitement over last night's 0-0 draw in Port Of Spain?

Couldn't watch it, since it was on a channel that probably has 100,000 subscribers.

I watched on NBC Universo. Had no clue the channel existed, and was surprised to find I have it. My fallback is finding a live stream.I'm happy with the point. T&T is the biggest threat in our group, so taking a point in T&T is fine. Aside from a couple of defensive lapses, I think it was a decent showing. Zardes was dangerous, but he needs to find a finishing touch. It seems like every game he squanders a couple of great chances. I think Jozy had a solid game. Good hold up play and distribution, a sick pinpoint pass Zardes headed off the bar, and a sick move to beat the defender on the touchline at the edge of the box. Jozy made a number of good runs off the ball, best game I've seen out of him since the World Cup. I'd like to see more of Bobby Wood, but he didn't fit the gameplan, and I can't disagree with the plan. For once, I think Jurgen fit the players to the plan, though Ream is a liability at left back. I still don't trust Orosco, but it may just be completely from one horrendous game as a youth.

[Nonlinear FC]

Bradley had a weird game. Especially in the first half, his passing in the final third was really bad. I like the guy, but he has games like this where he's a TO machine at times.

So, if you didn't see it, they went

Altidore - Xardes

F. Johnson - Bradley - Jones - Yedlin

Ream - Besler - Cameron - Orosco

Howard

So, the problem with that lineup is that the backline is full of center backs... There was VERY LITTLE (any?) overlapping from the outside backs. That's a pretty big deal. They basically tried to spring Yedlin or Johnson on longish passes, which is a fairly low percentage play. Or they tried passing their way through the middle, which was increasingly difficult as TnT dropped back numbers in the second half.

Nagbe coming in helped make them more dynamic, but not having people flying down the wings really slowed them down and limited the attack.

[Nonlinear FC]

so Grant Wahl says he is hearing from his sources that if the U.S. does not get 6 points during this international window, the Jurgen Klinsman Experience may end. His follow up on those rumors have gotten denials, but he also expected that from the official sources he tried to verify the sources.

Silliness. He's not going anywhere unless the US fails to qualify for the Hex.

[Rex]

Which is now really really remote. And that was a rather scripted 0-0 last night, if I may say so.

[Nonlinear FC]

Yeah, and this is not a shot at you WLU, but the reality is the same as it ever was. The guy was hired through the 2018 cycle and there is VERY LITTLE pressure on Gulati or anyone at soccer house, because despite all of the gains in popularity, nobody really gives a shit. And when I say nobody, I mean the media that makes money off of scandal. In Brazil or Mexico or most of Europe, if they smell blood, they go in for the kill because the vast majority of the country is going to lap it up.

Unless it's the World Cup, and not extremely early stages of qualifying, it doesn't pay for US media outlets to burn any time on it.

=-=-=-=-=-=

The way things have evolved, a US coach is not going to be fired mid-cycle unless they shit the bed and we get knocked out of qualifying. That is EXTREMELY unlikely to happen. We would have to finish below Mexico, Costa Rica (which, those 2, OK) and then a host of very very average to not good teams

* Honduras can be scary, but we haven't finished below them since we qualified in 1990 - they failed to qualify at least twice in that time.
* Jamaica, again, they have potential to be a tough out, but just like Hondo, they are inconsistent as Hell.
* TnT, Guatemala, El Salvador, Panama, Haiti, Canada... I mean, c'mon.

So, realistically, yeah... If we don't get out of the Hex, whoever is the coach at the time is fired, on the spot. But with JK, as we've discussed many times, he's so enmeshed in the entire national program, that displacing him would take a lot more than a rough run of friendlies 2 1/2 years away from a World Cup.

[howard]

TnT is a threat now? Did they get good, or adequate, or whatever?

And how is Howard playing? Age grabbed him yet? I haven't seen much of Everton.

[Nonlinear FC]

TnT is a threat now? Did they get good, or adequate, or whatever?

And how is Howard playing? Age grabbed him yet? I haven't seen much of Everton.

I mean, I'm saying they aren't a threat at all, lumping them in with those other teams. And when I say "threat" that's in the context of finishing above the US in a Hex. "Any given day" and all that says any team I listed above could beat the US at some point.

TnT is certainly playing pretty well for this manager. And they have a legit threat in Kenwyne Jones, an absolute destroyer up top at about 6'3" and close to 200 pounds (at least that what he looks like. Probably more like 190 or so... But he looks carved out of granite.) He pulled a spin/pivot shot that whistled by Howard and would've gone through the back of the net if it'd been 3 yards to the right.

They are fairly organized, though VERY sloppy in the back and I think the US beats them 2-0 or 3-1 at home. We will almost certainly change formation and put more pressure on them at home.

Howard looks fine, though he really wasn't tested much last night. I haven't checked of late, but he is rounding into form in the Premier League after a bit of a post-Brazil malaise.

[howard]

Thanks.

[DC47]

And how is Howard playing? Age grabbed him yet? I haven't seen much of Everton.

I think you can see a touch of age with Howard. But as he slows down physically, he is no doubt stronger emotionally and wise in the ways of the game. Not much is getting past him.

Tim Howard is also doing well. He think he's the greatest soccer player America has produced. When he's done, it's going to be hard to replace him on the American side.

[wlu_lax6]

So January camp was moved back because the vets complained to U.S. Soccer. I get needing a break but can't imagine that Jurgen is happy this. So no Clint Dempsey, Nick Rimando, Graham Zusi, Kyle Beckerman, Brad Evans, Chris Wondolowski and Omar Gonzalez.

Lots of youth for a team going up against a good Iceland team (and Canada too)

http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2016/01 ... nn-dempsey" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Nonlinear FC]

I don't claim to have a lot of inside insight, but this tussle with USSF and the players has been going on a VERY long time. USSF typically uses the leverage/spectre of being left off of the team to "encourage" the players to attend these camps and to low ball them at just about every turn.

[You see extreme cases of this at every world cup, where a team from Africa or Asia threatens to sit out unless their FA lives up to payment and lodging/training facility agreements.]

No offense to Iceland and Canada, but c'mon. We're in absolutely no danger on the WCQ front and JK was calling for an almost 30 day camp? It's just crazy. These guys would then turn right around and join preseason for MLS starting in mid-February. (Some of the young MLS guys, not part of the Nat pool, go back next week!)

[wlu_lax6]

So Hamid drops from camp because of more knee problems (he just can't stay healthy) and Stu Holden is training with the team. I honestly thought Holden had retired when I kept seeing him on TV.

[wlu_lax6]

So you know you are the nubs US National Team when

1.) You are playing in front of a crowd smaller than most high school games and it is a CONCACAF official competition
2.) They put you in the national team jerseys that are left overs from the previous design when even youth national teams have gotten access to the new kits.
3.) You lose to Canada
4.) The Federation stops tweeting about the game because they realize you are going to lose to Canada and get knocked out of the championship (2 game most goals series).

[wlu_lax6]

The 22 who will be going to Puerto Rico. I know this is not the A team, but lots of young talent

Goalkeepers: Brad Guzan (Aston Villa), Tim Howard (Everton/Colorado Rapids), Zach Steffen (Freiburg).

Defenders: John Brooks (Hertha Berlin), Geoff Cameron (Stoke City), Eric Lichaj (Nottingham Forest), Matt Miazga (Chelsea), Michael Orozco (Tijuana), Tim Ream (Fulham), DeAndre Yedlin (Sunderland).

Midfielders: Alejandro Bedoya (Nantes), Emerson Hyndman (Fulham), Fabian Johnson (Moenchengladbach), Perry Kitchen (Hearts), Alfredo Morales (Ingolstadt), Caleb Stanko (Freiburg), Danny Williams (Reading).

Forwards: Paul Arriola (Tijuana), Julian Green (Bayern Munich), Fabrice Picault (St. Pauli), Amando Moreno (Tijuana), Bobby Wood (Hamburg)

[tennbengal]

No Pulisic? Seriously?

[Sabo]

No Pulisic? Seriously?

I wouldn't be surprised if Dortmund asked to hang onto Pulisic for a little longer. I think they play Bayern Munich for the German Cup or something like that in the next couple of weeks.