rass wrote:I haven't kept up this season, but I know what is supposed to happen when Rick and co. meet Negan. I saw an article a week or two ago mentioning something about the bat scene possibly being a POV shot from the victim of the beating, and I wondered if they would use that to hide his/her identity as a cliffhanger. Is that what they actually did?
Yep. The beating was cheap too, given the POV, it wasn't nearly as brutal as I thought it would be. They'd better come strong in 701 or I'm done.
I have ZERO regret giving up on watching a couple of years ago. I'm not sure if I can think of a single example of a show that started out so strong after two seasons just to turn into a complete parody of itself.
rass wrote:I haven't kept up this season, but I know what is supposed to happen when Rick and co. meet Negan. I saw an article a week or two ago mentioning something about the bat scene possibly being a POV shot from the victim of the beating, and I wondered if they would use that to hide his/her identity as a cliffhanger. Is that what they actually did?
Yep. The beating was cheap too, given the POV, it wasn't nearly as brutal as I thought it would be. They'd better come strong in 701 or I'm done.
I have ZERO regret giving up on watching a couple of years ago. I'm not sure if I can think of a single example of a show that started out so strong after two seasons just to turn into a complete parody of itself.
Let me be clear, I don't think it was bad. I thought the tension they built throughout the episode was incredible. The cat-and-mouse of the Saviors being not just a move ahead but 10 moves ahead of the group was fantastic. It wasn't overly hammy in monologues or whatever.
Some people I know watch this show and just get pissed when they don't see violence or walkers getting shredded or whatever, but it makes it more satisfying to me when it happens if they're not parading it out in front of us all the time. The calculated time of deaths not the number, is what makes you care. I thought they did a great job with the death of Denise this season for example. It wasn't gratuitous, it served to move plot forward, and she got a nice send off. Which brings me to The Bat.
Why this was such bullshit has less to do with the identity of who Negan kills, and more to do with shuffling off because they either couldn't, or actively chose not to put it on Cable Television. Showing it POV not only masks the identity of the victim, but it entirely takes away what make the comic death of Glenn so captivating, the gruesomeness of watching someone get beaten to death. I'm not saying I wanted to see it. I was sorta steeling myself the entire way last night to make sure I could get through whatever they were going to show me, but then they showed me nothing. The panels in the comics are absolutely brutal to look at, and it's a black and white drawing (google TWD issue 100 if you want to see). We all knew someone dies. I could give a fuck who it is. What would have been the best cliffhanger would be to show that first crack, and then go black and have Negan deliver that line about Glenn (or whomever is going to take his place) being a tough motherfucker.
I thought JDM was superb as Negan, though his speech in the comics is so central to his character, I don't know how/if they're going to pull that off. If they don't open 7.01 with the full minute or two beating of whomever they chose, to prove they're serious about Negan (again, if you haven't read the comics, Negan makes the Governor look like a fucking Teletubby), I'm done with it. It's not that I don't think the actors and the writers are talented enough, part of me really just wonders how much they can do on Network TV and if they can't push it with Negan, there's no reason to even approach the story line.
BSF, do you know who those storm trooper guys on the horses are?
And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness. - God
I thought the episode and cliffhanger were great. Thought Gimple explained it perfectly on the after show when he said that meeting Negan was the end of the storyline. The killing and everything afterward was the start of a whole new story line. Don't really see why the Internet is whining the way it is. JDM did a great job as Negan, charismatic and evil all at the same time.
I thought the tension that was built up was fantastic as they tried to get to the Hilltop and were cut off every time. Each time there were more Saviors with more fire power. The run through the woods with the whistling was edge of your seat stuff.
BFJ is the town wizard who runs a magic shop. He also has a golem that he has trained to attack anti-Semites.
Yeah, I thought a lot of it was good too. However ... I get a bit tired of the lapses in reason in this show. OK, fine there are a lot of Saviors, but come the fuck on. Are they ominpresent as well? How the fuck did they manage to all gather exactly where Rick and others decided to ditch the RV? And they all got there, with the RV, without anyone hearing? In a world with no other motor sounds? That stuff drives me crazy in a show otherwise acted and produced very well.
Come on, BSF. It was bullshit. They'd been teasing this Negan and his victim thing for the entire season and the only reason that we were okay with them waiting like 15 and 7/8ths of an episode to even introduce him was because we were expecting resolution. Lincoln, Cohan, et al even said that the final episode actually made them sick to their stomach. Except, nothing happened. It was all shade.
And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness. - God
Jerloma wrote:Come on, BSF. It was bullshit. They'd been teasing this Negan and his victim thing for the entire season and the only reason that we were okay with them waiting like 15 and 7/8ths of an episode to even introduce him was because we were expecting resolution. Lincoln, Cohan, et al even said that the final episode actually made them sick to their stomach. Except, nothing happened. It was all shade.
Yes, I agreed with you. It was inside the spoiler tag. My issue just wasn't with who they killed, it was the kill itself and the approach.
And I could see how the actors said that make them sick. You can't deny there was some unbelievable tension and great acting going on (Lincoln especially) during the "on your knees" scene.
And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness. - God
Someone slowed down the audio and tried to interpret it and came out with Glenn.
And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness. - God
Jerloma wrote:Come on, BSF. It was bullshit. They'd been teasing this Negan and his victim thing for the entire season and the only reason that we were okay with them waiting like 15 and 7/8ths of an episode to even introduce him was because we were expecting resolution. Lincoln, Cohan, et al even said that the final episode actually made them sick to their stomach. Except, nothing happened. It was all shade.
I thought the whole season was great. I wasn't disappointed at all in the ending. I believe the cast when they wee talking about how awful they felt about the finale because it seems like they are really fucked now. Rick went from cocky douchebag to Negan's bitch in a matter of one episode. Not sure how you can say nothing happened. I can't wait for next season. Not so I can see who died, but so I can see how Rick and Negan interact. How Alexandria will do when the Saviors come calling. I didn't watch a whole season just for one payoff.
BFJ is the town wizard who runs a magic shop. He also has a golem that he has trained to attack anti-Semites.
BTW, I thought not showing who got the beating was a cheap, unnecessary trick. Did they really think folks would like that and be MORE willing to watch the first episode of the next season? I don't think so.
My guess is that it was Abraham's noggin that Lucille caved in. Glenn is too obvious at this point, and why hide it if they are going to go the obvious route? The only other person left who makes any sense is Abraham. If I'm Negan, that's who I'd pick - the big, tough guy. You look a bit like a bitch if you pick a woman. You need Rick to still be the leader to keep Alexandria in line and under control. He already basically said he wasn't killing Carl or Glenn (gave him a second chance instead of beating him when Glenn threw his fit). Meh, this sort of speculation is unnecessary. If they'd shown Negan beating Abraham to death, I think people would have been repulsed and angered, but would have really wanted to watch the next season to see how Negan is taken down. Now, it just feels like the show doesn't trust itself. It has to go for Dallas-style hijinks.
And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness. - God
Not at all. I really don't watch many shows, so it's not hard for me to keep up. Doesn't mean I can't be frustrated with aspects of the show though. I just felt like that was a cheap, unnecessary trick to end the season.
I feel like I really need DSafe or someone to back me up here. My wife still watches it and the little bit I end up seeing is inevitably laughably horrible. Almost a parody of a TV show. I'm not sure what some of you are seeing that's so awesomely written and well-acted. I went through two full seasons of overacting, the most trite possible writing and a requisite 10 minute scene every ep of walkers being shredded by the "heroes" to serve the horror fanbois and gore porn dudes. It's a horrible show now. Horrible. Like there are literally 100 better shows and that's a conservative estimate.
And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness. - God
So I reread a few of the comics this week, the two that cover the group meeting The Hilltop and then the Saviors and Negan. It was interesting which parts were very similar (e.g. Negan's awesome speech) and which parts the show really changed. In particular, the comics did a much better job of setting up the Negan confrontation.
In the comics, the group meets (and captures) Jesus, and eventually trusts him enough to go to the Hilltop with him. There, the same stuff happens as in the show and our group offers to take care of The Saviors for The Hilltop (it's actually Carl who blurts out the suggestion - a young, overly-optimistic attitude). Then, they go back and on the way home, are confronted by a group of Saviors on motorcycles - this is essentially the analog of the show scene where Daryl blows them all up. In the comic, our group kills 4 or 5 and leaves one to go tell Negan what happened (at this point, they're still overconfident).
The next day, while Abraham and Eugene are looking for places to make bullets, Abraham is shot in the eye by burned-face dude with a crossbow. That group - about a dozen Saviors - takes Eugene back to the Alexandria gate and demands to be let in. Instead, our group kills a bunch of them (mostly led by Andrea, who's much cooler in the comics, still alive, and an awesome sniper). Burnt face escapes (with Eugene's teeth marks on his crotch) along with a few other Saviors.
At this point, the Alexandria folks, led by Rick, are scared and wonder what they got themselves into. They realize that The Saviors are much bigger and more dangerous than they realized. They put together a group to make a hasty trip back to The Hilltop to get more info and reinforcements, thinking that if they go quickly, the Saviors won't have time to put together another attack.
On the way to The Hilltop, they are captured by a very large group of Saviors and that's where the Negan scene happens. And there's no magical manipulation or whistling in the woods. One of them just snags Rick while he's watching out while the rest of the group is sleeping.
So that all makes a hell of a lot more sense than what happened in the show, where Rick never seemed to realize that he had made a huge mistake. In the show, Rick and Co attack that one location with all of it's men and weaponry, while meanwhile another small Savior group captures Carol and Maggie. That other group takes them to a safe house (where they don't live) and calls a third group to come meet them. At this point, it should be pretty damn obvious that the Saviors are a HUGE group with massive resources and multiple locations. Remember, Daryl had already killed 5 or 6 guys with the rocket launcher. And they'd also had the run-in with burnt-face dude and his group when he killed the doctor.
But does TV Rick (or anyone else) decide that they need more info or help? Nope. They only go The Hilltop because Maggie is sick.
That's just sloppy writing to me. Rick is a pretty practical and cautious guy. I know they played up his confidence in that last episode, with him saying they always win, but come on. They all had to know they were likely in way over their heads, but they made no effort to address that.
Again, I'll keep watching, but I wish they'd write better.
