Baseball in July

Post by **brian** » Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:16 am

I do give Dombrowski credit for mostly being able to sell high on his prospects. Most of the guys he gave up when he was with Detroit didn't amount to anything. Trying to think which prospect he dealt in Detroit has had the best pro career. Probably Andrew Miller.

EnochRoot · Post by **EnochRoot** » Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:17 am

mister d wrote:Isn't that all a good argument for why they should have traded Boegaarts and Betts as minor leaguers, too?

I mean, in a sense you could extrapolate that out to dealing them, but I'm talking about applying the here and now against the future. When your system is stocked, you can reap the benefits in the now by trading from it. It's almost paramount that you do so, considering the volatility to the nature of being a prospect. Let somebody else assume the risk, so to speak.

Of course the Red Sox didn't go into negotiations looking to deal Espinoza. But they were willing to do so. That is Dombrowski being Dombrowski.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:40 am

brian wrote:I do give Dombrowski credit for mostly being able to sell high on his prospects. Most of the guys he gave up when he was with Detroit didn't amount to anything. Trying to think which prospect he dealt in Detroit has had the best pro career. Probably Andrew Miller.

Don't look at his Expos tenure. Not getting burned in Detroit was more not having regrettable prospects for him to deal as it was his judgment on who to deal.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:42 am

EnochRoot wrote:Of course the Red Sox didn't go into negotiations looking to deal Espinoza. But they were willing to do so. That is Dombrowski being Dombrowski.

Just like his was willing to deal Margot ++ for Kimbrel. The thing that pains me is that the Yankees and Red Sox can't match up for a deal.

EnochRoot · Post by **EnochRoot** » Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:57 am

mister d wrote:
EnochRoot wrote:Of course the Red Sox didn't go into negotiations looking to deal Espinoza. But they were willing to do so. That is Dombrowski being Dombrowski.
Just like his was willing to deal Margot ++ for Kimbrel. The thing that pains me is that the Yankees and Red Sox can't match up for a deal.

Can't, because of biases. Boston would love to get their hands on Miller and/or Chapman.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Fri Jul 15, 2016 11:01 am

And you know Cashman would love to get his hands on any of like a half dozen young players. And I bet these two GMs would be about as willing as any two you'd find in this rivalry, but management on one side of the other would probably back out. Hank not wanting to "give Boston a title" or Henry and Co. fearing another Ruth or some shit.

EnochRoot · Post by **EnochRoot** » Fri Jul 15, 2016 11:21 am

mister d wrote:And you know Cashman would love to get his hands on any of like a half dozen young players. And I bet these two GMs would be about as willing as any two you'd find in this rivalry, but management on one side of the other would probably back out. Hank not wanting to "give Boston a title" or Henry and Co. fearing another Ruth or some shit.

I'm just a cog (as you can tell in my profile pic), but I'm a lifelong Yankee fan.

I wish Hank were running things. Hal and his beancounter brigade are.

and frankly, I think the Ruth thing may have just happened with Hal's refusal to spend on Moncada.

That is, if I'm going to give Cashman the benefit of the doubt...Whatever benefits a general manager with seeming tenure can be afforded.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Fri Jul 15, 2016 11:24 am

I don't want to talk about Moncada.

EnochRoot · Post by **EnochRoot** » Fri Jul 15, 2016 11:43 am

mister d wrote:I don't want to talk about Moncada.

These are dark times.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:12 pm

I'm kinda excited about some of the core coming up, but we'd look sooooooo much better even next year if we just punt this year and sell off the relievers and Beltran and even a SP or two if the return is Pomeranz high.

(And I love Refsnyder's approach at the plate. Really hoping they can figure out a place for him to not kill himself or the team on the field.)

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:29 pm

mister d wrote:(Also, Pomeranz is a re-converted SP who I don't think has ever crossed 150 IP in a single professional season. Worth monitoring!)

Yeah, I was going to make this point, too. There is still a lot of risk in any assessment of him as a starting pitcher, given the small sample size of his experience. Decent probability that he might regress badly.

EnochRoot · Post by **EnochRoot** » Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:29 pm

mister d wrote:I'm kinda excited about some of the core coming up, but we'd look sooooooo much better even next year if we just punt this year and sell off the relievers and Beltran and even a SP or two if the return is Pomeranz high.

(And I love Refsnyder's approach at the plate. Really hoping they can figure out a place for him to not kill himself or the team on the field.)

Didi's looking like he's turning a corner too. A full year of a damn impressive slash line. I think Refs' future on this team would be that of a super-util guy. I have no problem with that.

They need to sell in the worst possible way. But they're divided up top. I have no doubt it was Cashman who was behind the leak too. What would be great is if Hank stormed the castle, Hal abdicated his throne, and he set Trost and Levine adrift. It'd be neat if the boat were on fire too. I mean, yeah, you can helicopter-rescue them because "think of the children!", but it'd have a cathartic effect...

howard · Post by **howard** » Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:16 pm

According to Baseball-Reference, Red Sox 3B Travis Shaw's nickname is 'Mayor of Ding Dong City'. (Must be a Kent State thing.) Jeff Shaw's kid.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:24 am

A local Barstool blogger (but he's actually good) started calling him that and it caught on.

howard · Post by **howard** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:28 am

Has a nice 'ring' to it.

(…don't know his name, but his face rings a bell)

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:27 am

Well, since the break, the Giants got swept by the Padres (including a walk-off balk), lost the first of two to Boston, haven't scored a run in 18 innings, and now pin their hopes on Matt Cain, who got lit up in his minor league rehab starts.

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:55 am

At least the Rangers keep losing.

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:05 pm

Some good reason to believe the baseball might be juiced this year:

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/are ... -steroids/

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 2:33 pm

sancarlos wrote:Well, since the break, the Giants got swept by the Padres (including a walk-off balk), lost the first of two to Boston, haven't scored a run in 18 innings, and now pin their hopes on Matt Cain, who got lit up in his minor league rehab starts.

I think I saw that in Matt Cain's last start against Boston (or maybe in Boston), the other pitcher was Daisuke Matsuzaka

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:39 pm

The Cubs are apparently trading Dan Vogelbach, a positionless slugger in Triple-A, for Mike Montgomery. Hopefully not the guy who coached Cal and Stanford.

Should this make me happy?

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:02 pm

At what point do we wonder if the Epstein-Hoyer BOS-SD Anthony Rizzo trade was a Cubs trade all along?

(Probably not on the Montgomery deal given that he's a reliever?)

howard · Post by **howard** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 8:30 pm

Nice tussle at Fenway. Sawx hung five runs in the third, to go up 8-0. Inning an a half later, Giants only trail by one, 8-7. Bottom of the fifth now.

I'm having the pleasure of a spontaneous group texting with three old friends, one in Boston two in Norcal. All four of us played on the same Am Legion team Pedroia played for, several decades later (but same field, although a recent nice renovation thanks to Dustin.)

howard · Post by **howard** » Sat Jul 23, 2016 7:26 pm

If it was these, he certainly has a point. Reports: Chris Sale Blew Up In Clubhouse Because He Didn’t Want To Wear Throwback Uniform

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Sat Jul 23, 2016 7:39 pm

These are the throwbacks in question. I think they're pretty slick, and am annoyed with Sale as I probably needed a good start from him to win my fantasy matchup this week.

Post by **brian** » Sat Jul 23, 2016 7:40 pm

Looking for anyone but especially Mr D or Ryan who know baseball and can be contrary occasionally anyway to give me a legitimate argument why Miguel Cabrera shouldn't make the Hall of Fame if he retired tomorrow. Because I got into a debate with someone and I feel like I've taken crazy pills now.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Sat Jul 23, 2016 7:50 pm

He's only been good since he was 19. Not worthy.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Sat Jul 23, 2016 7:51 pm

brian wrote:Looking for anyone but especially Mr D or Ryan who know baseball and can be contrary occasionally anyway to give me a legitimate argument why Miguel Cabrera shouldn't make the Hall of Fame if he retired tomorrow. Because I got into a debate with someone and I feel like I've taken crazy pills now.

Unless he fails a drug test, he's a mortal lock. Likely first-ballot, too. According to Baseball Reference, the only HOF-eligible position players who are ahead of him in career WAR but haven't been inducted are Barry Bonds, Pete Rose and Gary Sheffield. Next year, you'll be able to add Manny Ramirez to that illustrious list.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Sat Jul 23, 2016 8:12 pm

Joe K wrote:These are the throwbacks in question. I think they're pretty slick, and am annoyed with Sale as I probably needed a good start from him to win my fantasy matchup this week.

Correction: the Sox wore the ones I posted as a last minute substitute. They were going to wear the 1976 jerseys (the ones Howard posted, presumably minus the shorts) but Sale literally destroyed them so that the team couldn't wear them.

howard · Post by **howard** » Sun Jul 24, 2016 8:48 am

h/t san carlos

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Sun Jul 24, 2016 3:27 pm

Joe K wrote:Unless he fails a drug test, he's a mortal lock.

"I'm announcing my retirement, effective immediately, so I can pursue my true passion: Pedophilia." Otherwise, a lock.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Sun Jul 24, 2016 3:29 pm

Also, can we play the "what if Chris Sale was Chris Archer or Jose Fernandez?" game?

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Sun Jul 24, 2016 3:40 pm

mister d wrote:Also, can we play the "what if Chris Sale was Chris Archer or Jose Fernandez?" game?

Kind of an awesome, yet total bitch, move to be honest.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:23 pm

So there's a chance Beane's horrible Russell trade might be a factor in helping the Yankees. That's fun.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:58 pm

how soon do the Cardinals put in a position player to pitch? they have no pitchers left.. guy called up from the minors lasted 1.1 and gave up 9

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:25 pm

mister d wrote:So there's a chance Beane's horrible Russell trade might be a factor in helping the Yankees. That's fun.

This is such an awful feeling. I don't want to have to cheer for this guy.

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:19 am

Well, apparently Chapman to the Cubs is a done deal.

http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2016/7/25/1 ... nkees-cubs

Steep price. It better fucking pay off.

Post by **brian** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:23 am

Any time you can trade your top prospect for a guy who's going to give you 40 innings over the rest of the season.

Well, you have to make that deal.

(Why don't we still have orange colored font on here? In seriousness I totally don't get this deal both for the sarcastic reasons above, but also because it's not like the Cubs window is closing. The playoffs are a crap shoot and there's no reason to think they shouldn't be a contender for years to come. I don't see how this is a good idea.)

Post by **brian** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:24 am

(Though I guess the counter-argument is that the deal was supposedly dependent on a long-term deal for Chapman, but I still don't understand it.)

EnochRoot · Post by **EnochRoot** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:43 am

brian wrote:Any time you can trade your top prospect for a guy who's going to give you 40 innings over the rest of the season.

Well, you have to make that deal.

(Why don't we still have orange colored font on here? In seriousness I totally don't get this deal both for the sarcastic reasons above, but also because it's not like the Cubs window is closing. The playoffs are a crap shoot and there's no reason to think they shouldn't be a contender for years to come. I don't see how this is a good idea.)

Reasons it's a good trade for the Cubs:

- They get one of the best closers in baseball, and didn't empty their system to do it.
- They get an exclusive window to negotiate with Chapman. Whether or not he's willing to negotiate before declaring for free agency, he'll get a taste of October baseball in the Windy City.

Reasons it's a good trade for the Yankees:

- They upgrade their farm system.
- They remove Chapman from the market, thus elevating Andrew Miller even further.

Orange font.

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:50 am

brian wrote:Any time you can trade your top prospect for a guy who's going to give you 40 innings over the rest of the season.

Well, you have to make that deal.

(Why don't we still have orange colored font on here? In seriousness I totally don't get this deal both for the sarcastic reasons above, but also because it's not like the Cubs window is closing. The playoffs are a crap shoot and there's no reason to think they shouldn't be a contender for years to come. I don't see how this is a good idea.)

I think I would be okay with the trade except for Chapman's "off-field issues". Torres is years away, and the Cubs already have two MLB-caliber-and-highly-promising shortstops who are 22 and 24. With seven position players having been called up the past two years, all of whom could easily be in the starting lineup next season, I'm not too stressed about trading prospects. And those 40 innings are likely to be high leverage.

My biggest concern baseball-wise is that the Cubs' real problem over that recent horrible stretch was their starting, not their bullpen. I would rather see Torres going for a starter. But presumably that was not available. So this at least lets the Cubs use Strop-Rondon-Chapman in the 7th-9th innings. There are worse positions to be in.