2016 Presidential Race

[degenerasian]

as an outsider i dont know how America even solves it problems. The fact that it's still a Republic is amazing.

How to solve Obamacare? scrap it?
What was the last attempt at immigration reform? The Harry Reid bill in 2007?
And race relations i don't even get into, i'll get in massive trouble.

[degenerasian]

and if you are still considering it.

[Pruitt]

I know that it many areas it is hard to vote, but the fact that voter turnout was 53% is disgraceful.

[Brontoburglar]

I've decided that this is my response to Trump's "mandate"

- be exceptionally kind to everyone, especially women and minorities. I realize this may sound pandering or wrong, or what have you. but I feel like I have a moral duty to show that I wasn't someone who went and excused all that he did because I want to "take my country back" or make it great again. I also realize that's selfish, but like mentioned here, I'm kind of ashamed of my demographic and I want to stand out as the minority within it. I feel that I look standoffish at times and my typical quietness to strangers/in public may seem like I'm a dick. gotta change that.

- stand up for what I believe in more frequently. that doesn't mean political fights at every opportunity, but mainly along the lines of equality. I feel more than ever that it's necessary to show that racism/xenophobia/misogyny/etc is not ok

- put my actions where my heart is. I don't know just what that will entail, but it'll likely be focused on those on the margins who will be deeply affected by a Republican-controlled government. maybe that's giving to Planned Parenthood. maybe it's helping families who will get cuts in social services. I don't know... I'm gonna find out.

- there's more. I'm trying to feel empowered by this. like this is a wakeup call. on another selfish note, I'm thinking I may start to minimize risk in my portfolio for the short term and even go with liquidity at decent interest rates simply because I know what's happened with the market the past two times there's been a Republican-dominated government. and while I have no plans on touching my retirement money anytime soon, I want to be in the best position I can when the inevitable happens.

[EnochRoot]

I've decided that this is my response to Trump's "mandate"

- be exceptionally kind to everyone, especially women and minorities. I realize this may sound pandering or wrong, or what have you. but I feel like I have a moral duty to show that I wasn't someone who went and excused all that he did because I want to "take my country back" or make it great again. I also realize that's selfish, but like mentioned here, I'm kind of ashamed of my demographic and I want to stand out as the minority within it. I feel that I look standoffish at times and my typical quietness to strangers/in public may seem like I'm a dick. gotta change that.

- stand up for what I believe in more frequently. that doesn't mean political fights at every opportunity, but mainly along the lines of equality. I feel more than ever that it's necessary to show that racism/xenophobia/misogyny/etc is not ok

- put my actions where my heart is. I don't know just what that will entail, but it'll likely be focused on those on the margins who will be deeply affected by a Republican-controlled government. maybe that's giving to Planned Parenthood. maybe it's helping families who will get cuts in social services. I don't know... I'm gonna find out.

- there's more. I'm trying to feel empowered by this. like this is a wakeup call. on another selfish note, I'm thinking I may start to minimize risk in my portfolio for the short term and even go with liquidity at decent interest rates simply because I know what's happened with the market the past two times there's been a Republican-dominated government. and while I have no plans on touching my retirement money anytime soon, I want to be in the best position I can when the inevitable happens.

Good post, and kind actions will go a long way to "selfishly" help you feel better about this clusterfuck. I've been thinking along those lines too.

That tweet that floated around yesterday about how the youngest demographic voted is something to behold. And frankly, share that data with those you feel may benefit from knowing it.

Oh and lastly, buy art. Store it. Sell it later.

[Steve of phpBB]

While there's some truth to this, the notion that these voters are unpersuadable is pretty significantly undercut by the fact that Obama swept the four Great Lakes states Clinton lost (PA, OH, MI, WI) in both of his elections. Maybe the economic climate has worsened in these states over the past 4 years, but I'm not sure that's the case. I think the big difference is that Obama was able to very deftly point out just how little the GOP was actually offering for these voters. Admittedly Trump was an unconventional opponent who presented some different challenges, but I still think that Clinton could -- and should -- have been able to keep these voters. But instead of acknowledging their frustrations and explaining why she was better equipped to address them than Trump, she spent way too much time repeating her attacks on Trump's character and pushing baseless Putin conspiracies.

Obama was able to bring in a new energy and a message of Hope and Change. He was able to come across as a compassionate person who cared and wanted to help, while Mitt came across as a Country Club robot who made millions by shipping jobs overseas and instituting massive layoffs. Hillary came across as cold, and believing she was entitled to the Presidency. I didn't mean that these votes couldn't be won by a Democrat, they just can't be won by an empty suit talking about policy, they need to feel a message of hope and feel that the candidate cares about them and their problems, and will help them.

Remember that Trump did better among incomes $50,000K and above - at all levels - than he did among people with lower incomes. So I don't think much was driven by economics. Also, the voters did not really want change in any economic or legislative sense - Obama's approval rating is over 50% and very very few Congressmen were thrown out.

Also, did you listen to many Hillary speeches? She was full of compassion and caring and wanting to help. She actually proposed policies more liberal than Obama's. And nowhere did she say that she was entitled to the presidency - that was a view superimposed on her from outside.

I think the problem is more simple - over the past few years, there has been a lot more public recognition of the problems that African-Americans face. Such as the protests over cops killing black folks. So Obama says something - so now Obama is stoking racial hostilities. ("Why didn't he have a press conference when [random cop] was killed?" "Why does Obama like thugs more than cops?") So these people feel like they are being called racist, even though they aren't being called racist. So they resent it, because they don't want to face up to the fact that black people really do still face serious problems.

Then, Trump comes along and builds an entire campaign on racial and ethnic and religious hostilities. We need to keep out these Syrians. But they see the picture of the little boy lying dead on the beach, so they feel guilty again. So they resent Democrats some more.

And, of course, the Dem candidate is a woman. So she threatens the way things have always been.

This was inevitable. I think the only Democrat who would have had a shot of winning would have been Joe Biden. Because he's not a woman or a black or a Jew. He's normal.

Back in 2008, Howard was saying that America would never elect a black candidate. That turned out to be wrong, but instead what happened was that America would only remain silent for so long after a black candidate was elected.

[GoodKarma]

"Accept it and move on" works to the audience of white dudes. If you've been around anyone else today, that option isn't available.

I'd add that grassroots organizing and protest movements will likely be very important over the next 2 years, with the GOP controlling every branch of government. A tremendous amount of harm could be done to the poor, women's rights, due process rights and, of course, immigrants. Rather than "accept it and move on," progressives need to show how Trump's policies will hurt so many if there's to be any hope of protecting these more vulnerable groups.

My point about "move on" is specific to the protests that started last night. I don't think generic protesting works on that large of scale anymore...just like I don't think political "ground games" matter anymore for national elections (everybodies minds are already made up). Sure, a group of students protesting a school policy may give them a voice and some compromise, but do you really think a Trump administration cares what protesters have to say? His entire campaign was based on divisiveness and telling one group of people that all of these other groups of people are the reason for their pain. No one is listening to the message...all they see is whining and sore losers.

I don't discount the concern that his policies will hurt every minority group; I'm saying that those people yelling in the streets that we are suffering will have no effect. If you want to effect change you need a cohesive group, message and leadership. Protest to get attention, get a meeting and work from there. Setting police cars on fire just makes it worse.

Bronto echoed my sentiments above...those are the best things to do at this time.

[The Sybian]

Remember that Trump did better among incomes $50,000K and above - at all levels - than he did among people with lower incomes. So I don't think much was driven by economics. Also, the voters did not really want change in any economic or legislative sense - Obama's approval rating is over 50% and very very few Congressmen were thrown out.

Also, did you listen to many Hillary speeches? She was full of compassion and caring and wanting to help. She actually proposed policies more liberal than Obama's. And nowhere did she say that she was entitled to the presidency - that was a view superimposed on her from outside.

I think the problem is more simple - over the past few years, there has been a lot more public recognition of the problems that African-Americans face. Such as the protests over cops killing black folks. So Obama says something - so now Obama is stoking racial hostilities. ("Why didn't he have a press conference when [random cop] was killed?" "Why does Obama like thugs more than cops?") So these people feel like they are being called racist, even though they aren't being called racist. So they resent it, because they don't want to face up to the fact that black people really do still face serious problems.

Then, Trump comes along and builds an entire campaign on racial and ethnic and religious hostilities. We need to keep out these Syrians. But they see the picture of the little boy lying dead on the beach, so they feel guilty again. So they resent Democrats some more.

And, of course, the Dem candidate is a woman. So she threatens the way things have always been.

This was inevitable. I think the only Democrat who would have had a shot of winning would have been Joe Biden. Because he's not a woman or a black or a Jew. He's normal.

Back in 2008, Howard was saying that America would never elect a black candidate. That turned out to be wrong, but instead what happened was that America would only remain silent for so long after a black candidate was elected.

Hillary doesn't come across as sincere. Whether she is or not, she just isn't good at seeming genuine. It is just her style of speech, horrible comedic timing, cringeworthy pandering (appearance on the black radio channel morning show). It's totally superficial, but people needed to feel inspired. The fact she had such a low credibility and likability rating made this trait worse. She needed to win people over, and she couldn't. Another problem is Trump saying so many outlandish and insane things, he hogged all of the media attention. A lot more people saw soundbites of Trump calling for violence at his rallies than saw Hillary delivering important policy information. I'm guilty of this. I spent way too much time on sites aggregating clips from news channels to laugh at the idiocy of Trump's surrogates. I really didn't see much of Hillary's campaign speeches. I knew I was voting for her, and they weren't nearly as interesting as the circus clown.

Of course Hillary never said it was her turn, but you can't tell me she doesn't believe it was her turn. Damn, work calls...

[GoodKarma]

I have a two page document written in a similar tone sitting on my computer right now...debating about the value of posting.

I hope the protests die down...it will not change anything and only make things worse. Accept it and move on.

Eh, at minimum post it here. I am getting residual catharsis reading people's rants.

At Syb's request, here is the document I was referring to. Apologies for two things...1) the length and 2) I realize it makes light of women's and minority concerns. I can't really speak to those things since I am neither, but at the same time I can't get sideways trying to placate everybody when I'm attacking 60 million people:

A plea for the electorate:

For Liberals: please don't get discouraged by the outcome…still continue to work on the causes that you are passionate about. The good news is that in 240 years of history, liberalism wins out over the long term. The country would not have progressed to this point without progressive thought, innovation (which is a liberal ideal) and the drive to go new places and try new things. Liberalism is hard because it takes people to places they've never been before and that can be scary; so do your best to help those who don't understand realize that whether they like it or not, things change…they have to in order for us to evolve as people and a society. That's just the way the world works. Also, please stop with the protests and dramatic soliloquies about fear for your country or how to explain to your kids. The system is bigger than any one person. Stop ignoring that Hilary, while qualified via her past experience, education, drive and personality; had too much of the aforementioned baggage. She did not lose because she's a woman. She lost because she was the wrong candidate and not enough people came out to vote for her.

For Democrats: please please please govern. Don't stand up and say "our job is to prevent this president from getting a second term" (unlike your Republican colleagues). Compromise (again, unlike your Republican colleagues). Approve his Supreme Court appointments. Let him repeal and "replace" Obamacare. Let him undo all of the trade deals. Let Paul Ryan pass his budget and welfare reform. The job of government is to govern…be the bigger people and do so. Best case, some or even all of their policies work and we're better for it. Worst case, you get to say I told you so and have real shot at the next election, because politics has been reduced to sports over the past 25 years…the most popular guy on any football team is the backup quarterback. Nothing will be done that can't be undone if it fails. Also, please learn from this. Please don't put up a candidate with known historically low likability and political baggage, no matter how ill-informed or unfair some of that baggage may be).

For Republicans: work with your Commander in Chief. Be united; embrace his policies. You chose to back this candidate (even if some of you didn't vote for him - your failure to condemn your candidate and your party is the same as an endorsement). If you try and subvert him, you will only be prolonging the past six years which you claim to acknowledge as an abhorrent stain upon our democracy. You have the Legislative and Executive branches; you will soon have the Judicial so please make the most of it…I beg you.

Finally, for Conservatives and the roughly 60 million people that voted from Trump: Own your President. Celebrate that your voices were heard. You're not racists, misogynists or anti-LGBTQ. But you elected two people that are…so own it. Own the fact that they were endorsed (and his election celebrated) by the KKK and the other white nationalist groups. Own your message that while you may love your neighbor, you clearly view them a threat to you, your family, your career and your religion. Own the fact that you think America has not been great despite record job and economic growth and Trump will somehow make it great again. Own the fact that one of your (many) fears is that 'Murica is now the laughingstock of the world and you think a failed businessman (by the numbers) and reality TV star will change that. Own the fact that Trump believes in "superior genes" and that only "thoroughbreds" should mate with "thoroughbreds" to ensure a strong gene pool. Own that he embraces the teachings of Norman Vincent Peale and his twisted version of prosperity gospel where, under no circumstances do you ever admit that you failed, lost or made a bad decision. As all of you business owners know, the only way to be a success is to never admit a mistake; the only way to be a success is to finish first. Own the fact that you have legitimized the aforementioned white nationalist groups as well as bastions of the corrupt media you hate so much such as Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter and Tomi Lahren. Own the Trump surrogates such as Newt Gingrich (reprimand from the House for ethics violations; I won't even mention his marital history), Rudy Giuliani (who had turned into the crazy guys shouting on the street corner that the world will end) and Steve Bannon (the anti-establishment "man of the people" with a Harvard MBA, masters from Georgetown, Goldman Sachs & entertainment industry alum that turned to running the voice of the Alt-Right). Own your belief that isolationist policies in a time of globalization are the best economic and political policies to enact.

Finally Trump voters, we as a country owe you an apology. We ignored your cries of terror as the brown people that talk funny started showing up in public places you frequent. We're sorry that you had to put with the poor people getting a totally free ride from the government with their free cell phones, brand new cars and houses that are WAY nicer than yours in neighborhoods and schools that are much safer and more conducive to a healthy lifestyle. We're sorry that you hard-working small business owners had to suffer through the piles and piles of red tape and regulation that prevented you from profiting while we had the audacity to ask that you pay a living wage. We're sorry that what other people did in their own bedroom and their struggles with personal identity was so threatening to your God-given "real" marriages. We're sorry we thought women should have the same opportunities as men without having to work harder to achieve them while putting up with harassment, both public and private. We're sorry that the politicians and some media made things too boring or hard to listen to while trying to inform you by using the evil tools of "science", "education" and "reading." We're sorry that the government took all of your guns, ammo and self-worth. We're sorry that we believed science and "experts" over your gut feelings and Facebook-investigated concerns such as global warming, trade and healthcare. I should also mention a special we're sorry to you white Evangelicals that believed the devil had led us astray for the past eight years and sorry that we didn't believe that the thrice-married, opposite of turn-the-other-cheek atheist bully was your answer to stand as symbol for religious piety and force to punish the women who dare make the difficult decision to terminate a pregnancy.

I'm happy for you…the people have spoken. I'm glad you got to laugh at all of the Hillary (or is it Hitlary…or Killary?) supporters on Wednesday; you got to do your sack dance before you watch your NFL team this Sunday and complain that the players show off and celebrate too much. The pain and suffering you have lived with since 2008 will soon come to end. The good ole' days of the 19xx's (insert your favorite decade here) will be returned to you on January 20, 2017.

[Ryan]

Hillary doesn't come across as sincere. Whether she is or not, she just isn't good at seeming genuine. It is just her style of speech, horrible comedic timing, cringeworthy pandering (appearance on the black radio channel morning show). It's totally superficial, but people needed to feel inspired. The fact she had such a low credibility and likability rating made this trait worse. She needed to win people over, and she couldn't.

Voters playing hard-to-get is just the cutest, you guys.

[Joe K]

"Accept it and move on" works to the audience of white dudes. If you've been around anyone else today, that option isn't available.

I'd add that grassroots organizing and protest movements will likely be very important over the next 2 years, with the GOP controlling every branch of government. A tremendous amount of harm could be done to the poor, women's rights, due process rights and, of course, immigrants. Rather than "accept it and move on," progressives need to show how Trump's policies will hurt so many if there's to be any hope of protecting these more vulnerable groups.

My point about "move on" is specific to the protests that started last night.... I don't discount the concern that his policies will hurt every minority group; I'm saying that those people yelling in the streets that we are suffering will have no effect. If you want to effect change you need a cohesive group, message and leadership. Protest to get attention, get a meeting and work from there. Setting police cars on fire just makes it worse.

Bronto echoed my sentiments above...those are the best things to do at this time.

Here's where I differ. As a fortunate white man, I cannot imagine the terror that Muslim-Americans and Latino immigrants must be feeling this week. If nothing else, the protests last night send a message to those and other minority groups that there are many Americans who are unwilling to sit idly by and will show them solidarity if and when a crackdown begins. Obviously protests alone are insufficient but I do think they have some value. And were there any actual reports of protestors burning police cars last night or are you just stereotyping based on past protests?

ETA: After reading your longer post, let's just say that we drastically differ in our views on how liberals and Democrats should act. I don't see any value in compromise, such as letting the Paul Ryan budget pass, if such compromise will result in tremendous hardships for millions of poor people.

[Moreta]

I think the protests have more to do with a feeling of helplessness than a sincere attempt to create change. I doubt anyone who joined those marches thought they'd somehow unelect The Donald. They wanted to feel less alone, feel less helpless, and publicly demonstrate that they did not contribute to the selection of this demagogue since their ballots are secret.

[govmentchedda]

I've decided that this is my response to Trump's "mandate"

- be exceptionally kind to everyone, especially women and minorities. I realize this may sound pandering or wrong, or what have you. but I feel like I have a moral duty to show that I wasn't someone who went and excused all that he did because I want to "take my country back" or make it great again. I also realize that's selfish, but like mentioned here, I'm kind of ashamed of my demographic and I want to stand out as the minority within it. I feel that I look standoffish at times and my typical quietness to strangers/in public may seem like I'm a dick. gotta change that.

- stand up for what I believe in more frequently. that doesn't mean political fights at every opportunity, but mainly along the lines of equality. I feel more than ever that it's necessary to show that racism/xenophobia/misogyny/etc is not ok

- put my actions where my heart is. I don't know just what that will entail, but it'll likely be focused on those on the margins who will be deeply affected by a Republican-controlled government. maybe that's giving to Planned Parenthood. maybe it's helping families who will get cuts in social services. I don't know... I'm gonna find out.

- there's more. I'm trying to feel empowered by this. like this is a wakeup call. on another selfish note, I'm thinking I may start to minimize risk in my portfolio for the short term and even go with liquidity at decent interest rates simply because I know what's happened with the market the past two times there's been a Republican-dominated government. and while I have no plans on touching my retirement money anytime soon, I want to be in the best position I can when the inevitable happens.

This is very similar to how I feel right now, and what I've decided to do moving forward, minus even thinking about investments. I am leaning very strongly towards assisting on a pro bono basis, CAIR (Council on American-Islamic Relations Florida). I know that they are active locally and have had a few hot button issues lately. For example, in the small town where I grew up, Temple Terrace, just outside of Tampa, a Muslim was running for City Council and a hate mailer was sent to the residents warning against him. The candidate is a Palestinian American, civil engineer, and was very qualified. I feel like I can help there. I feel like I can learn there.

[EnochRoot]

"Accept it and move on" works to the audience of white dudes. If you've been around anyone else today, that option isn't available.

I'd add that grassroots organizing and protest movements will likely be very important over the next 2 years, with the GOP controlling every branch of government. A tremendous amount of harm could be done to the poor, women's rights, due process rights and, of course, immigrants. Rather than "accept it and move on," progressives need to show how Trump's policies will hurt so many if there's to be any hope of protecting these more vulnerable groups.

My point about "move on" is specific to the protests that started last night.... I don't discount the concern that his policies will hurt every minority group; I'm saying that those people yelling in the streets that we are suffering will have no effect. If you want to effect change you need a cohesive group, message and leadership. Protest to get attention, get a meeting and work from there. Setting police cars on fire just makes it worse.

Bronto echoed my sentiments above...those are the best things to do at this time.

Here's where I differ. As a fortunate white man, I cannot imagine the terror that Muslim-Americans and Latino immigrants must be feeling this week. If nothing else, the protests last night send a message to those and other minority groups that there are many Americans who are unwilling to sit idly by and will show them solidarity if and when a crackdown begins. Obviously protests alone are insufficient but I do think they have some value. And were there any actual reports of protestors burning police cars last night or are you just stereotyping based on past protests?

ETA: After reading your longer post, let's just say that we drastically differ in our views on how liberals and Democrats should act. I don't see any value in compromise, such as letting the Paul Ryan budget pass, if such compromise will result in tremendous hardships for millions of poor people.

Yeah, I'm not sure where he was going with that. I have zero fucks to give about people protesting last night. I hope it gets louder tonight.

I mean, we get it: older white America is still racist as fuck. But young America isn't. That's what these protests are about, so maybe Trump can suck on that mandate he thinks he has, or maybe more specifically: his handlers will get the message that the youth is aware, and frankly, awoken.

[EnochRoot]

This is very similar to how I feel right now, and what I've decided to do moving forward, minus even thinking about investments. I am leaning very strongly towards assisting on a pro bono basis, CAIR (Council on American-Islamic Relations Florida). I know that they are active locally and have had a few hot button issues lately. For example, in the small town where I grew up, Temple Terrace, just outside of Tampa, a Muslim was running for City Council and a hate mailer was sent to the residents warning against him. The candidate is a Palestinian American, civil engineer, and was very qualified. I feel like I can help there. I feel like I can learn there.

God damn. I remember Temple Terrace during my college days at USF. Once Antraniks closed, that place ceased to exist to me. Good freaking riddance.

[BSF21]

While there's some truth to this, the notion that these voters are unpersuadable is pretty significantly undercut by the fact that Obama swept the four Great Lakes states Clinton lost (PA, OH, MI, WI) in both of his elections. Maybe the economic climate has worsened in these states over the past 4 years, but I'm not sure that's the case. I think the big difference is that Obama was able to very deftly point out just how little the GOP was actually offering for these voters. Admittedly Trump was an unconventional opponent who presented some different challenges, but I still think that Clinton could -- and should -- have been able to keep these voters. But instead of acknowledging their frustrations and explaining why she was better equipped to address them than Trump, she spent way too much time repeating her attacks on Trump's character and pushing baseless Putin conspiracies.

Obama was able to bring in a new energy and a message of Hope and Change. He was able to come across as a compassionate person who cared and wanted to help, while Mitt came across as a Country Club robot who made millions by shipping jobs overseas and instituting massive layoffs. Hillary came across as cold, and believing she was entitled to the Presidency. I didn't mean that these votes couldn't be won by a Democrat, they just can't be won by an empty suit talking about policy, they need to feel a message of hope and feel that the candidate cares about them and their problems, and will help them.

Remember that Trump did better among incomes $50,000K and above - at all levels - than he did among people with lower incomes. So I don't think much was driven by economics. Also, the voters did not really want change in any economic or legislative sense - Obama's approval rating is over 50% and very very few Congressmen were thrown out.

I'd like to know how the statistics on this are compiled. And it seems to me that "above 50K" is a very arbitrary number to settle at. I make well over that per year and I voted Democrat on at least 60% of my ballot including HRC. I think this is what conservative talking points people mislead folks into thinking. Higher taxes would allegedly only happen to those making far more money than 50k per year, yet all we hear is that "taxes go up, we give money to people who don't work".

I feel like I'm in a rock and a hard place when it comes to politics in this country. I'll gladly pay higher taxes to see the bottom lifted up to a certain point. I don't think the government needs to have its hand in everything and that the population needs it's hand held into what's best for it, be it healthcare or otherwise. I believe people are people regardless of what equipment they are packing, who they want to fuck, how they want to dress, what color their skin is. I own a gun. I don't think they're a good thing when you're not in the woods or at a range shooting clay or paper. I believe that bureaucracy in government has got to be reigned in. I believe it is entirely too hard to start or run a small business in this country, and entirely too easy to exploit others for gain in large business.

What everything boils down to after I look at it is that my candidate doesn't exist, so you have to rank your values.

AB said previously that he votes where he believes he gets financial benefit. That's a perfectly OK stance to take. I might take that stance too if I had a family to provide for or a lower paying job than I currently do. Voting to what maters to you is a justifiable act. But I'd say you need to be prepared to own that stance if you do so (not specifically calling out AB here). In my mind we're all better when the bottom rises. HRC was the best person that I was presented with to ensure that happens. It might cost a little more. It might mean you have to change your views or listen openly to people who are different than you or have different experiences than you. We as a country, and I don't want to hear that popular vote nonsense, as statistically half of the people who voted wrote down DJT's name; we voted for someone who openly campaigned on the promise of putting the little guy beneath the boot and hoisting up those who think, feel, and believe a certain way. That's what I find so deeply troubling. That in the face of possible oppression, half of the voting population essentially said "Fuck 'em, if they're not like me, then they don't matter as human beings". That's what I fear. We're losing the perspective that 59 million people in this country we're willing to step on the little guy because they either believe they're not as important as they are, or that they might make a little more scratch in DJT's America than an America that follows a more progressive line.

We will fail this experiment. The divides are so deep that I'm not certain we can ever come back together as a people. We're all guilty of it. We see a deep divide on a message board consisting of maybe 60 people that bother to write their thoughts out on a regular basis. How do you reconcile 350 million people? It's hard to have hope in the face of that.

I'll still be here. I'll still vote for what I believe is progress. I'll still stand up for people who have had their voices taken because they are different. That's all we can do as a people.

Sorry that got rambleish. I just needed to get my thoughts out as some kind of catharsis. I'm troubled by our collective lack of caring for everyone as individuals. I hope that we can continue to exist mostly as a people that will stop and help someone in trouble, even if they look or act or believe differently than you or I do. I hope people raise their children in a way that leads them to put those less fortunate first. I hope that those less fortunate still feel that it's OK in this country to ask for help. 535 people have a lot of power in this country right now. I hope they use it in a way that puts humans first.

[bapo!]

Hillary doesn't come across as sincere. Whether she is or not, she just isn't good at seeming genuine. It is just her style of speech, horrible comedic timing, cringeworthy pandering (appearance on the black radio channel morning show). It's totally superficial, but people needed to feel inspired. The fact she had such a low credibility and likability rating made this trait worse. She needed to win people over, and she couldn't.

I really wish that we could move past this idea that our politicians need to be charismatic. I mean, I guess it helps if Obama can give a great speech after another mass shooting, but I just want somebody with a sharp mind who knows how to handle the office. Hillary is not charismatic, and she's a terrible public speaker, but that shouldn't matter as much as it does.

Yeah, Hillary has a host of other problems. And we just elected a reality-tv star, so charisma and telegenic...ness does matter. I'm not saying anything that Marshall McLuhan didn't say decades ago. Still makes me angry, tho.

Today is the day after the day after, and anger is setting in. Tomorrow: bargaining.

[Johnnie]

The Russians are openly admitting they had communications with Trump during the campaign. Trumpkins are spinning this as "good dialogue."

Why do I feel like this is all a mix of 1984, It Can't Happen Here, and Red Dawn?

And you people don't want to buy guns?

[degenerasian]

My politics are similar to BFJ. I will glad pay more tax to build that train or build that bridge.

However as a minority I always tell other minorities they have to buy in. They have to assimilate. Cannot continually take help and piss it away. North America is the least racist of all places in the world. It always will be even if you dont feel it today. Minorities cannot take advantage of that goodwill without returning anything.

Best example of this is that most minorities don't volunteer. We just had United Way campaigning in October at work. The volunteer organizing team? 10 whites and one muslim. We don't assimilate, we don't contribute. Including me, there are 30 Asians in the office. Not one volunteers.

[Joe K]

North America is the least racist of all places in the world.

Not sure about Canada, but this is an extremely questionable statement when it comes to the USA. In fact, I don't know how you can possibly look at the historical treatment of Natice Americans and African-Americans and say this. We had slavery well after it was abolished in Europe, condoned a systematic terrorism campaign against blacks for decades after slavery ended and continue to this day to have numerous forms of economic discrimination.

[GoodKarma]

"Accept it and move on" works to the audience of white dudes. If you've been around anyone else today, that option isn't available.

I'd add that grassroots organizing and protest movements will likely be very important over the next 2 years, with the GOP controlling every branch of government. A tremendous amount of harm could be done to the poor, women's rights, due process rights and, of course, immigrants. Rather than "accept it and move on," progressives need to show how Trump's policies will hurt so many if there's to be any hope of protecting these more vulnerable groups.

My point about "move on" is specific to the protests that started last night.... I don't discount the concern that his policies will hurt every minority group; I'm saying that those people yelling in the streets that we are suffering will have no effect. If you want to effect change you need a cohesive group, message and leadership. Protest to get attention, get a meeting and work from there. Setting police cars on fire just makes it worse.

Bronto echoed my sentiments above...those are the best things to do at this time.

Here's where I differ. As a fortunate white man, I cannot imagine the terror that Muslim-Americans and Latino immigrants must be feeling this week. If nothing else, the protests last night send a message to those and other minority groups that there are many Americans who are unwilling to sit idly by and will show them solidarity if and when a crackdown begins. Obviously protests alone are insufficient but I do think they have some value. And were there any actual reports of protestors burning police cars last night or are you just stereotyping based on past protests?

ETA: After reading your longer post, let's just say that we drastically differ in our views on how liberals and Democrats should act. I don't see any value in compromise, such as letting the Paul Ryan budget pass, if such compromise will result in tremendous hardships for millions of poor people.

Oakland for the police car burning: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/thousand ... d=43427653

My reason for compromise is that in order for progress to be made something has to change and the only way to move forward is compromise. I am one who is willing to inflict short term pain for long term gain. I know its not fair and it sucks, but every policy hurts some people in some way. If I could make the policy change more painful for me and not others i truly would. We can turn ourselves sideways trying to make sure no one is injured but that it usually an impossible task. My point in compromise is let the R's get their policies in place and when they fail, you have built your case with empirical data that these people are bad for the country. Then we can get back to governing with progress.

[degenerasian]

North America is the least racist of all places in the world.

Not sure about Canada, but this is an extremely questionable statement when it comes to the USA. In fact, I don't know how you can possibly look at the historical treatment of Natice Americans and African-Americans and say this. We had slavery well after it was abolished in Europe, condoned a systematic terrorism campaign against blacks for decades after slavery ended and continue to this day to have numerous forms of economic discrimination.

You are speaking historically which may be true. But speaking currently it's difficult for minorities in Europe (as an example mentioned above). I have family in Europe and cousins similar to me in age and education have less opportunity then I do. They tell me that hiring policies in Europe bring up race more directly then in the US. I also think Europe lags behind the US in female and ethnic CEOs and Executives.

There are problems in the US no doubt but it's still the best at addressing these issues.

[Joe K]

North America is the least racist of all places in the world.

Not sure about Canada, but this is an extremely questionable statement when it comes to the USA. In fact, I don't know how you can possibly look at the historical treatment of Natice Americans and African-Americans and say this. We had slavery well after it was abolished in Europe, condoned a systematic terrorism campaign against blacks for decades after slavery ended and continue to this day to have numerous forms of economic discrimination.

You are speaking historically which may be true. But speaking currently it's difficult for minorities in Europe (as an example mentioned above). I have family in Europe and cousins similar to me in age and education have less opportunity then I do. They tell me that hiring policies in Europe bring up race more directly then in the US. I also think Europe lags behind the US in female and ethnic CEOs and Executives.

There are problems in the US no doubt but it's still the best at addressing these issues.

Have you ever lived in any American cities? The level of de facto segregation and disparities of economic opportunity remains extremely high in so many cities here. There's a lot more I could say in response, but instead I'll just recommend that you read Ta-Nehisi Coates' book "Between the World and Me." It makes all the points I have in mind in a much more eloquent way than I can.

[degenerasian]

North America is the least racist of all places in the world.

Not sure about Canada, but this is an extremely questionable statement when it comes to the USA. In fact, I don't know how you can possibly look at the historical treatment of Natice Americans and African-Americans and say this. We had slavery well after it was abolished in Europe, condoned a systematic terrorism campaign against blacks for decades after slavery ended and continue to this day to have numerous forms of economic discrimination.

You are speaking historically which may be true. But speaking currently it's difficult for minorities in Europe (as an example mentioned above). I have family in Europe and cousins similar to me in age and education have less opportunity then I do. They tell me that hiring policies in Europe bring up race more directly then in the US. I also think Europe lags behind the US in female and ethnic CEOs and Executives.

There are problems in the US no doubt but it's still the best at addressing these issues.

Have you ever lived in any American cities? The level of de facto segregation and disparities of economic opportunity remains extremely high in so many cities here. There's a lot more I could say in response, but instead I'll just recommend that you read Ta-Nehisi Coates' book "Between the World and Me." It makes all the points I have in mind in a much more eloquent way than I can.

Thanks. I will read that.

[bapo!]

but instead I'll just recommend that you read Ta-Nehisi Coates' book "Between the World and Me."

I love this book. It's rare to read something at my age that changes or shapes the way I feel about race, but this book did just that.

[Steve of phpBB]

I think people who live in California have every right to protest. A Californian's vote counts significantly less in electing a president than the vote of someone from Wyoming. If everyone's vote counted the same, Hillary would be the President-Elect. That is fucked, fucked, fucked up.

I appreciate the rants above. I may post something here to keep me from screaming it at my sister and mother-in-law.

[Steve of phpBB]

So apparently the share of white people rating Trump as a 10 out of 10 correlates strongly with the level of Latino immigration into the person's area.

http://www.vox.com/world/2016/11/10/135 ... m-2-charts

But no, liberals are being big meanies by suggesting that racism drives much of Trump's support.

[govmentchedda]

This is very similar to how I feel right now, and what I've decided to do moving forward, minus even thinking about investments. I am leaning very strongly towards assisting on a pro bono basis, CAIR (Council on American-Islamic Relations Florida). I know that they are active locally and have had a few hot button issues lately. For example, in the small town where I grew up, Temple Terrace, just outside of Tampa, a Muslim was running for City Council and a hate mailer was sent to the residents warning against him. The candidate is a Palestinian American, civil engineer, and was very qualified. I feel like I can help there. I feel like I can learn there.

God damn. I remember Temple Terrace during my college days at USF. Once Antraniks closed, that place ceased to exist to me. Good freaking riddance.

Antranik's was owned by the family of a guy I grew up playing baseball with. It went out of business a few years back when none of the next generation wanted to take over the small family owned shop. I don't get back to Temple Terrace much these days, but every time I drive down Fowler and it's not there I'm saddened all over again. Their sandwiches were amazing.

[Steve of phpBB]

Luckily for me, there is already a taco cart on the corner near my office. I'll have to make a point of heading over there today.

Mother fucker. It's gone. The guy at the bank right there said that the cart wasn't there yesterday either.

I hope that it's just a coincidence.

The falafel cart kitty-corner from the taco truck is also gone.

Mother fucker.

[degenerasian]

Luckily for me, there is already a taco cart on the corner near my office. I'll have to make a point of heading over there today.

Mother fucker. It's gone. The guy at the bank right there said that the cart wasn't there yesterday either.

I hope that it's just a coincidence.

The falafel cart kitty-corner from the taco truck is also gone.

Mother fucker.

is it because of weather? winter? or are those carts there year round?

[Steve of phpBB]

Luckily for me, there is already a taco cart on the corner near my office. I'll have to make a point of heading over there today.

Mother fucker. It's gone. The guy at the bank right there said that the cart wasn't there yesterday either.

I hope that it's just a coincidence.

The falafel cart kitty-corner from the taco truck is also gone.

Mother fucker.

is it because of weather? winter? or are those carts there year round?

The taco cart didn't move in until this year, so I don't know if they planned to stay around all winter.

But it's in the upper 60s with clear skies all week. I don't know why they would leave for the winter this week, unless they had already planned to start something else right now.

[A_B]

North America is the least racist of all places in the world.

Not sure about Canada, but this is an extremely questionable statement when it comes to the USA. In fact, I don't know how you can possibly look at the historical treatment of Natice Americans and African-Americans and say this. We had slavery well after it was abolished in Europe, condoned a systematic terrorism campaign against blacks for decades after slavery ended and continue to this day to have numerous forms of economic discrimination.

You are speaking historically which may be true. But speaking currently it's difficult for minorities in Europe (as an example mentioned above). I have family in Europe and cousins similar to me in age and education have less opportunity then I do. They tell me that hiring policies in Europe bring up race more directly then in the US. I also think Europe lags behind the US in female and ethnic CEOs and Executives.

There are problems in the US no doubt but it's still the best at addressing these issues.

Have you ever lived in any American cities? The level of de facto segregation and disparities of economic opportunity remains extremely high in so many cities here. There's a lot more I could say in response, but instead I'll just recommend that you read Ta-Nehisi Coates' book "Between the World and Me." It makes all the points I have in mind in a much more eloquent way than I can.

Listened to that about 3 weeks ago. Really enjoyed it. Thought-provoking. Hard to listen to at times. But as it has marinated, only gotten better. Very interesting read/listen.

[A_B]

Luckily for me, there is already a taco cart on the corner near my office. I'll have to make a point of heading over there today.

Mother fucker. It's gone. The guy at the bank right there said that the cart wasn't there yesterday either.

I hope that it's just a coincidence.

The falafel cart kitty-corner from the taco truck is also gone.

Mother fucker.

is it because of weather? winter? or are those carts there year round?

The taco cart didn't move in until this year, so I don't know if they planned to stay around all winter.

But it's in the upper 60s with clear skies all week. I don't know why they would leave for the winter this week, unless they had already planned to start something else right now.

There's a brick and mortar mediterranean restaurant near my office that is closed for 4-5 months a year when they go back to Egypt. It is 150% full when they are open. People spilling out and holding plates and eating. It's good to real good, but I can't make myself stand in line for 30 minutes just to order.

[Pruitt]

North America is the least racist of all places in the world.

Not sure about Canada, but this is an extremely questionable statement when it comes to the USA. In fact, I don't know how you can possibly look at the historical treatment of Natice Americans and African-Americans and say this. We had slavery well after it was abolished in Europe, condoned a systematic terrorism campaign against blacks for decades after slavery ended and continue to this day to have numerous forms of economic discrimination.

You are speaking historically which may be true. But speaking currently it's difficult for minorities in Europe (as an example mentioned above). I have family in Europe and cousins similar to me in age and education have less opportunity then I do. They tell me that hiring policies in Europe bring up race more directly then in the US. I also think Europe lags behind the US in female and ethnic CEOs and Executives.

There are problems in the US no doubt but it's still the best at addressing these issues.

I never use the word "Dude" except in scripts, but Dude are you kidding me? Or have you never spent time in the States?

Maybe living in Toronto has given me a rosier view of my fellow countrymen (and women!), but I can remember being amazed as a kid when visiting my cousins and aunts in Detroit and Boston, and travelling through the States at how segregated the place was.

OBVIOUSLY there is racism up here, but your mayor is Muslim. My Premier is a lesbian (and we have had a Jewish Premier as well as Mayors.) We have a Sikh Minister of Defence, there are Gays in the Federal and Ontario cabinets, a Muslim has been Premier in P.E.I., and I could go on and on and on.

I love the States, and I don't want to offend anyone here, but I am 52 years old, and while things are better now than they were when I was a kid, it stuns and appalls me that almost half of the people who could be bothered to vote put their "X" next to the name of a man who endorsed the idea of holding camps for Muslim immigrants, mass deportations of Mexicans, who borrowed Nazi-era anti-Jewish slurs and who spoke of African-Americans as if they were helpless children. It is a place where laws are being passed to effectively disenfranchise African-American voters.

Sorry, that doesn't seem like a very good job is being done at addressing issues in a positive way.

[EnochRoot]

This is very similar to how I feel right now, and what I've decided to do moving forward, minus even thinking about investments. I am leaning very strongly towards assisting on a pro bono basis, CAIR (Council on American-Islamic Relations Florida). I know that they are active locally and have had a few hot button issues lately. For example, in the small town where I grew up, Temple Terrace, just outside of Tampa, a Muslim was running for City Council and a hate mailer was sent to the residents warning against him. The candidate is a Palestinian American, civil engineer, and was very qualified. I feel like I can help there. I feel like I can learn there.

God damn. I remember Temple Terrace during my college days at USF. Once Antraniks closed, that place ceased to exist to me. Good freaking riddance.

Antranik's was owned by the family of a guy I grew up playing baseball with. It went out of business a few years back when none of the next generation wanted to take over the small family owned shop. I don't get back to Temple Terrace much these days, but every time I drive down Fowler and it's not there I'm saddened all over again. Their sandwiches were amazing.

I seem to recall the Sheik's Special was a go-to sandwich of mine.

[DC47]

I know that it many areas it is hard to vote, but the fact that voter turnout was 53% is disgraceful.

Disgraceful candidates, as usual, will demotivate many.

Also, voting is pretty inconvenient for many people. Not to mention, obviously symbolic only, on the individual level.

[The Sybian]

North America is the least racist of all places in the world.

Not sure about Canada, but this is an extremely questionable statement when it comes to the USA. In fact, I don't know how you can possibly look at the historical treatment of Natice Americans and African-Americans and say this. We had slavery well after it was abolished in Europe, condoned a systematic terrorism campaign against blacks for decades after slavery ended and continue to this day to have numerous forms of economic discrimination.

You are speaking historically which may be true. But speaking currently it's difficult for minorities in Europe (as an example mentioned above). I have family in Europe and cousins similar to me in age and education have less opportunity then I do. They tell me that hiring policies in Europe bring up race more directly then in the US. I also think Europe lags behind the US in female and ethnic CEOs and Executives.

There are problems in the US no doubt but it's still the best at addressing these issues.

I never use the word "Dude" except in scripts, but Dude are you kidding me? Or have you never spent time in the States?

Maybe living in Toronto has given me a rosier view of my fellow countrymen (and women!), but I can remember being amazed as a kid when visiting my cousins and aunts in Detroit and Boston, and travelling through the States at how segregated the place was.

OBVIOUSLY there is racism up here, but your mayor is Muslim. My Premier is a lesbian (and we have had a Jewish Premier as well as Mayors.) We have a Sikh Minister of Defence, there are Gays in the Federal and Ontario cabinets, a Muslim has been Premier in P.E.I., and I could go on and on and on.

I love the States, and I don't want to offend anyone here, but I am 52 years old, and while things are better now than they were when I was a kid, it stuns and appalls me that almost half of the people who could be bothered to vote put their "X" next to the name of a man who endorsed the idea of holding camps for Muslim immigrants, mass deportations of Mexicans, who borrowed Nazi-era anti-Jewish slurs and who spoke of African-Americans as if they were helpless children. It is a place where laws are being passed to effectively disenfranchise African-American voters.

Sorry, that doesn't seem like a very good job is being done at addressing issues in a positive way.

Not only am I not offended, but I completely agree.

[DC47]

I never use the word "Dude" except in scripts, but Dude are you kidding me? Or have you never spent time in the States?

Maybe living in Toronto has given me a rosier view of my fellow countrymen (and women!), but I can remember being amazed as a kid when visiting my cousins and aunts in Detroit and Boston, and travelling through the States at how segregated the place was.

OBVIOUSLY there is racism up here, but your mayor is Muslim. My Premier is a lesbian (and we have had a Jewish Premier as well as Mayors.) We have a Sikh Minister of Defence, there are Gays in the Federal and Ontario cabinets, a Muslim has been Premier in P.E.I., and I could go on and on and on.

I love the States, and I don't want to offend anyone here, but I am 52 years old, and while things are better now than they were when I was a kid, it stuns and appalls me that almost half of the people who could be bothered to vote put their "X" next to the name of a man who endorsed the idea of holding camps for Muslim immigrants, mass deportations of Mexicans, who borrowed Nazi-era anti-Jewish slurs and who spoke of African-Americans as if they were helpless children. It is a place where laws are being passed to effectively disenfranchise African-American voters.

Sorry, that doesn't seem like a very good job is being done at addressing issues in a positive way.

The national election, where the Dems put up a horrible candidate who then ran a bad campaign, does not reflect American life as it is actually lived. Trump is not America. He won -- with only a minority of voters -- despite his racist and anti-feminist remarks. Not because of them.

This country has made tremendous progress towards the values espoused by those who value civil rights and feminism. This progress will be sped up to the extent that the Republicans in Washington take action based on their retrograde rhetoric.

Where we haven't made progress is in our willingness to kill foreigners, including the commission of war crimes, to pursue corporate ends. That's harder for me to see changing, as both Republican and Democratic administrations have managed to sell this to the American public as a "war on terror" that is required due to the domestic threat.

[degenerasian]

Come on DUDE! America has made tremendous progress. Why do people around the world still dream of going there.

To live outside north america is to face totally different obstacles.

[P.D.X.]

Also, voting is pretty inconvenient for many people. Not to mention, obviously symbolic only, on the individual level.

Both of those are bugs, not features.