NFL - Week 12

[degenerasian]

even in week 12. Broncos should have punted and taken the tie.

[brian]

Can't imagine why Denver didn't punt there.

[TT2.0]

vigorous discussion after about whether it was the dumbest call of kubiaks career. its top 3 but not 1st

[Rex]

The discussion might have been louder if he played for the tie. Can't help but think that the Broncos lost because Kubiak didn't want to be called a wuss. What are the odds of making a 62-yarder, even in Denver? 5 percent?

[degenerasian]

A tie is a result, better than a loss. People who would have called Kubiak a wuss are idiots. If the Broncos had punted the Chiefs inside the 10, Reid probably would have gotten Smith to kneel twice for the tie, is he a wuss?

I'd rather be called a wuss than be out of a playoff spot now.

[Pruitt]

Raise a toast to the inventor of the DVR. For he allowed me to watch the monstrosity that was the Jags-Bills game in just over an hour.

i thought that game was pretty good, i abandoned the Chargers-Texans game to watch it!

You must not be a bills fan forced to watch the defensive mastermind's troops allow Bortles to run for first downs at will.

[Rex]

I'd probably do that kick if I had Tucker or Bailey, and that's about it.

I think going for it would have been more defensible.

[Brontoburglar]

I'd probably do that kick if I had Tucker or Bailey, and that's about it.

I think going for it would have been more defensible.

yeah, I'm on the bandwagon that you go for it first. odds are probably the same of getting 4th and 10 (maybe better given that the Chiefs ((Phillip Gaines)) were getting burned down the field in the fourth quarter)

because if you don't, barring a sack, you're giving up eight fewer yards of field position at the minimum. And in a game coming down to a field goal, muy importante

[brian]

Weekly reminder that Jeff Fisher is three losses away from the NFL all-time record.

[Pruitt]

Browns have won 3 of their last 33 games.

Jackson is heartened by the fact his players are still fighting so hard. The defense held the Giants to 14 points if you take away the two Browns turnover that resulted in 13 points.

[brian]

I'm starting to come around to Bengal's theory that Cleveland will get its only win against the Bengals though.

ETA: I think realistically when you look at their schedule with the other games coming against SD, Buffalo and Pittsburgh, all three of which are in the playoff race to varying degrees and the Cincinnati coming at home and off a bye, that's the big one. Cleveland's been interesting because to my untrained eye (I mostly watch the scores, not the actual games) they seem to play pretty well and hang close for two and a half to three quarters and then somehow get blown out in the last 20 minutes. I have no idea what their scoring delta is in the fourth quarter but it's gotta be about -100 at least, right?

[Pruitt]

I'm starting to come around to Bengal's theory that Cleveland will get its only win against the Bengals though.

Extra week of rest too.

The fans just might pull the goalposts down.

[A_B]

They haven't given up LESS than 24 points a game this year. The offense was somewhat serviceable but has been pretty bad in the last 4 weeks, and the defense is hot garbage all season long.

I no joke think it makes sense to play RG3 at this point. Kick the tires.

[brian]

They haven't given up LESS than 24 points a game this year. The offense was somewhat serviceable but has been pretty bad in the last 4 weeks, and the defense is hot garbage all season long.

I no joke think it makes sense to play RG3 at this point. Kick the tires.

Yeah I was right and I was wrong. They haven't been that bad in the fourth quarter really, but the third quarter HAS been bad. Easily a -100 delta in the second half and their delta for the season is only about -150.

[brian]

They haven't given up LESS than 24 points a game this year. The offense was somewhat serviceable but has been pretty bad in the last 4 weeks, and the defense is hot garbage all season long.

I no joke think it makes sense to play RG3 at this point. Kick the tires.

It only makes sense to play him if there's a chance he'll be with them beyond this season, which doesn't look realistic to me at this point. So if Kessler's healthy I think you have to play him and see what he can do. I don't think he's been THAT bad really, especially under the circumstances.

But really it depends how important it is to them to win a game. I DO (believe me I do) get the idea that it might be worth it risk some long-term capital (chance of losing the #1 pick, not getting a chance to get Kessler more reps) to avoid going 0-16 so given that, playing RG3 might make sense if you really think he gives you the best chance to win a game. If they were 1-11 instead I'd say no way, just play the younger players you're trying to evaluate.

[A_B]

They haven't given up LESS than 24 points a game this year. The offense was somewhat serviceable but has been pretty bad in the last 4 weeks, and the defense is hot garbage all season long.

I no joke think it makes sense to play RG3 at this point. Kick the tires.

It only makes sense to play him if there's a chance he'll be with them beyond this season, which doesn't look realistic to me at this point. So if Kessler's healthy I think you have to play him and see what he can do. I don't think he's been THAT bad really, especially under the circumstances.

But really it depends how important it is to them to win a game. I DO (believe me I do) get the idea that it might be worth it risk some long-term capital (chance of losing the #1 pick, not getting a chance to get Kessler more reps) to avoid going 0-16 so given that, playing RG3 might make sense if you really think he gives you the best chance to win a game. If they were 1-11 instead I'd say no way, just play the younger players you're trying to evaluate.

Kessler's gotten two concussions in the first 11 games of his career. He's not been terrible, but that's not a good sign.

[Sabo]

Any NFL QB will get two concussions playing behind that offensive line.

Joe Thomas was right last week. This is what happens when you let two of your best offensive linemen leave via free agency.

[brian]

Agreed. Given that maybe best to sit him rest of season. But I'm not a doctor.

We're not privy to the team's internal discussions but if they think there's a > 95 percent chance they're going to take a QB with the #1 pick then probably doesn't matter what they do at that position. So given that just maximize chances of winning a game. Like I said, I think they need to put all their eggs in one basket for the Cincinnati game. Make that their Super Bowl in pre-game preparation, etc.

[degenerasian]

Here's one for you guys. Last night should Bennie Fowler have run it in for a TD? That would look stupid on tv but if he goes down at the 5 The Broncos run 3 more plays then kick a FG to go up by 4. The Chiefs had no timeouts left.

[Brontoburglar]

Here's one for you guys. Last night should Bennie Fowler have run it in for a TD? That would look stupid on tv but if he goes down at the 5 The Broncos run 3 more plays then kick a FG to go up by 4. The Chiefs had no timeouts left.

The far stronger debate is if the Broncos should have gone for 2 after Fowler's TD.

[Sabo]

The Browns have so many needs its ridiculous. They need a franchise QB. They need offensive line help badly. They need a playmaking CB and safeties who can actually tackle. They need a defensive lineman who can pressure the QB. Some of the rookies this year have shown promise (Carl Nassib and Emmanuel Ogbah come to mind), but they're inconsistent. And this assumes they retain Jamie Collins ... if he leaves, they need another impact LB.

But the offensive line is the main problem. They've allowed 15 sacks in the last two games. I don't care who the QB is, you're not going to be effective when you play behind an awful offensive line.

[DaveInSeattle]

Any NFL QB will get two concussions playing behind that offensive line.

Joe Thomas was right last week. This is what happens when you let two of your best offensive linemen leave via free agency.

Pete Carroll is intrigued by this notion...

[brian]

I'll also say that the Browns progress is being actively discussed amongst the Lions fans I know and on our Internet sites. Sentiment runs something about 90-95 percent rooting for the Browns to get a win. That would probably be closer to 100 if not for various Cleveland/Detroit based rivalries. (i.e. if it were say -- the Panthers -- I can't imagine a Lions fan rooting for them not to get a win (short of anything that potentially impacted the Lions for playoff position, etc. obvs)

[sancarlos]

Do the Browns want DeShawn Watson? Or, will they go into next season with Kessler and/or RG3 at QB? The answer to that question might affect their QB starter discussions.

And, I'm just gutted about the Bronco game. It seemed to be locked up.

[brian]

Doesn't seem to be a slam dunk number one pick this year (nor was there last year though that didn't stop the Rams and Eagles from selling the farm to move up), but Watson would be the likely choice if they did pick a QB #1 overall I'd guess.

I follow CFB pretty closely but I don't think there's a guy at another position where you could say you could pass on a QB either though. Some years you have a guy like Calvin Johnson or Orlando Pace who's so dominant and such a freak that you could justify passing up a QB especially if you're a team that needs help everywhere and is probably in a four-year rebuilding plan.

[A_B]

SOmewhere someone won a fantasy football game on that safety by the Ravens yesterday.

[Giff]

SOmewhere someone won a fantasy football game on that safety by the Ravens yesterday.

Doubt anyone starting the Bengals defense is winning anything.

[brian]

This frustrates the shit out of me.

No QB in the NFL gets a bigger pass from the media than Rodgers. I agree with the base premise -- that Rodgers is not to blame for the Packers record, but Rodgers is probably not among the top 5 QBs in the league this season based on production regardless of that and certainly not a fucking MVP candidate. Meanwhile, Stafford has superior counting stats, not to mention three more wins with possibility a weaker supporting cast (on offense) and isn't even in the discussion.

(Note: I don't give a fuck about the MVP really. Just the inane focus on excusing everything Player A does because he shills every product in the world and is a great quote.)

ETA: To be clear I don't really think Stafford (at this point) is a top MVP candidate either*. But if he isn't, Rodgers sure as fuck isn't.

* - Amongst QBs I'd say Brady, Ryan, Prescott and Carr above Stafford. Stafford, Brees and Cousins would be in that close next tier.

[Ryan]

I wish I could get pissed at things like Jon Gruden fawning over a legendary quarterback who's about to play in a game he's calling.

[brian]

I wish I could get pissed at things like Jon Gruden fawning over a legendary quarterback who's about to play in a game he's calling.

I get what you're saying, but it's hardly an isolated occurrence. Rodgers hasn't played very well for going on a couple of seasons now and still gets fawned over non-stop.

[brian]

To put it another way, if Gruden had just left it at "Rodgers is not to be blamed for the Packers' woes" then fine. Like I said, I completely agree with that.

But there's no need to keep blowing him and calling him an MVP candidate. That's just idiotic.