Triggering, safe spaces, political correctness

[mister d]

What the fuck is a sit and reach?

[Giff]

What the fuck is a sit and reach?

It's where you sit and then reach.

[Ryan]

Except with a yellow Hood milk crate with a ruler taped to the top.

[A_B]

Has that photo had men's arms protoshopped on?

[rass]

Has that photo had men's arms protoshopped on?

Think she might be a ginger and you're mistaking freckle swirl for arm hair.

[duff]

Has that photo had men's arms protoshopped on?

Think she might be a ginger and you're mistaking freckle swirl for arm hair.

[Giff]

Man, J.T. Walsh was so good. Gone too soon.

[The Sybian]

I somehow missed this thread, but I think all of the college "safe space," "micro-aggressions," and the rest of it helped Trump and down ticket Repubs this year. The anti-PC movement on the Right has been growing for at least 10 years, and these anecdotes are providing the biggest ammunition. The RW media and my Conservative FB friends pose arguments as if all Liberals support these concepts. Ben Carson made fighting PC a cornerstone of his campaign. I tried to read his book, and that was a major theme. Talk about a shitty book...

It also furthers the narrative that colleges are Liberal brainwashing factories, so anything the educated, scientists, or professors say is false propaganda. If it wasn't for one friend in particular, I wouldn't have thought this was a real thing. I think the huge anti-bullying movement in schools over the past decade is a major part of the overly-sensitive college kids. I'm hoping it is a minority of schools and kids pushing these policies and the media is blowing it out of proportion. I meant to verify one story about SUNY Binghamton, claiming they trained dorm RAs that white people are evil oppressors and they should teach their residents to hate whites, or something along those lines. One of the most important aspects of going to college is being exposed to the spectrum of beliefs; political, cultural, religious, whatever. There were stories about one campus, I forget which one, where students felt threatened because someone wrote "Trump 2016" in chalk on a sidewalk. If true, that is fucking ridiculous.

As for kids getting participation trophies, I'm pretty sure I got a participation trophy or two, and they meant a lot less to me than earned trophies. Kids know the difference. My son got a participation trophy for t-ball and his first year of rec soccer. He was 6 or 7, and in leagues that don't keep score. The kids sure as hell kept score, which was especially funny in t-ball, where every kid got to stay on base, and they could only advance one base, except for the last batter, where everyone ran home. The kids had some amazing discrepancies in scores. Whether the kids got trophies was completely up to the coach. I coached my daughter in every sport, and I decided not to give out trophies, but host a party at the end of the season instead. This year she is playing a pre-travel league, where we play tournaments against other towns. They don't have refs and don't keep score, but that is just for their first year. One tournament gave everyone a medal, which my daughter wore for days, beaming with pride. I think it's fine, but I prefer other rewards, like when they exchanged patches with the other teams after the game. She is way more into those than the medal, anyways. We gave out framed team pictures instead of a trophy, and I think the girls were way more excited about that, but I don't think boys would be as into a picture.

[degenerasian]

It definitely drives the right's agenda. I mentioned quotas many times in the presidential thread. There may not even be actual quotas, just the perception of them.

On participation trophies, those are meaningless. I don't know how kids learn anything.

My personal story: In grade 6 (1988) I was on the school chess team. It was a crazy competition where we had to playdown in qualifiers and then the top 8 schools in the city met at the public library on a Sunday. Teams of 4, declare the teams 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th player and play the opposing teams 1,2 3,4. We clearly had a top player so he was #1 and a weakest player so he was #4. Me and another guy were close so our teacher had us playoff for #2. I made a couple mistakes and lost so I ended up #3.

We crushed the qualifiers so the team order were correct (I think I would have struggled as #2). Then at the public library it was a straight 8 team round robin, each win was 1 point, school with most points after 28 games each wins gold, 2nd silver, 3rd bronze. There were also medals for top #1, top #2, top #3, top #4. It was really tough. Our #1 struggled as the other #1s were amazing. 2nd and 4th were around .500, probably 4-3 or 3-4. I had a good day. I started 5-0 with 2 to go, I was eyeing the top #3 prize and the team bronze was still in reach. The pressure got to me and I lost the last 2 to go 5-2. Devastated as I blew that medal and our chance at bronze.

Or so I thought. Somehow 5-2 was good enough as other results went my way, i won the top #3 medal on tiebreakers and head-to-heads. Shocked when they announced my name. We finished 5th in the team competition so the following day, it was announced that I brought home a medal. It was really cool. We worked really hard for that 5th place. Practiced every lunchour for a couple months.

[BSF21]

Practiced every lunchour for a couple months.

This makes me envision attempting to eat lunch while jumping over obstacles and barrel rolling on the ground. Probably needs to be a well packed burrito of some kind.

[degenerasian]

re: Carrie Fisher's Death, Steve Martin tweeted,



He's had to delete it due to backlash.

[Johnnie]

Ugh. The internet, and specifically Twitter, is poison. In all reality, it was probably just poorly written or an inside joke, but the intent was confused for the action. Unless Steve Martin really did mean he thought of her as beautiful first, smart second. Which is kinda douchey, but just dumb to react to.

My favorite internet freak out was #Shirtstorm. You remember from a couple years back, right? This guy:



Fuck the monumental occasion of landing a probe on a comet. He's a science nerd with a shirt that has naked ladies. HANG HIM.

[Pruitt]

Twitter proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that some people should keep their thoughts to themselves.

It empowers stupidity.

[sancarlos]

And, as Johnnie noted, the shrieking indignant reactions are often worse than the original comment that offended them.

As far as Steve Martin's tweet goes - yeah I think we all agree that we SHOULD NOT objectify, and that we SHOULD view a woman as whole sum of her intellect, wit, beauty, etc., but the massive whining about his tweet is stupid and way over the top.

[EnochRoot]

And, as Johnnie noted, the shrieking indignant reactions are often worse than the original comment that offended them.

As far as Steve Martin's tweet goes - yeah I think we all agree that we SHOULD NOT objectify, and that we SHOULD view a woman as whole sum of her intellect, wit, beauty, etc., but the massive whining about his tweet is stupid and way over the top.

He didn't objectify in 2016. He objectified in 1977. He tweeted a recollection. Groupthink, yet again, run amok.

[mister d]

"Before I knew her I thought she was hot and then I met her and she was a great person too."

[duff]

"Before I knew her I thought she was hot and then I met her and she was a great person too."

That is exactly as I read it.

[BSF21]

The idea of it is that the instant reaction of dumbing a woman down to a sexual object instantly is what gets that group riled up.

I struggle with this because I truly believe it's human nature to do so, via both genders. Men tend to be more outward about it while women don't, but the idea that humans don't make snap judgments of people based on appearance is silly. That's biological response. The way we proceed from there is what needs to change.

I feel like I'm a little sensitive to this as a good friend of mine, a sever at a bar I frequent, was recently harassed at work to a degree that makes me want to punch a motherfucker. Some 60yo sleezebag kept telling her to "take her sweater off and show off those tits", "I bet those are D's right?", etc...then claimed his behavior was OK because he was tipping 20%. It's shit like that I wish more people got up in arms about. Bar manager ended up throwing them out and turns out the guy is a Sr VP for a local bank who likes to plaster Facebook with pictures of his great family and fortune, so watching that unfold has been a fun twist.

In short, it's unfortunate that someone gets jumped on for a seemingly innocuous thought about finding a woman attractive in his younger years and then having the fortune to meet her and find she is a nice person. However, I do wish people would be a bit more understanding of the shit that women and minorities have to put up with that some of us have never even given a passing thought to. I don't think that level of political correctness is a bad thing. It's a more humanist perspective we could all gain from.

[Ryan]

The same people who complain about this shit will then jump on Facebook as soon as one of their friends changes her profile picture to say, "Looking good, mama" and "Just beautiful!". They never seem to say, "Wow, so smart. You look like a world-renowned scientist now!"

[mister d]

"You look kindhearted and I'd like to fuck your brain."

[degenerasian]

it's a real fine line. When I go to bars it's nice to look at cleavage. If there were no cleavage at bars I wouldn't go less as long as the waitresses were still friendly. In my single days, I'd go sit at the bar and watch tv talking to the bartender anyways.

Guy mentioned above is the douche who wants to say show your titties at the hot receptionist at his workplace but can't. So he says it at someone else's.

[A_B]

"Before I knew her I thought she was hot and then I met her and she was a great person too."

That is exactly as I read it.

It could have been put more eloquently of course, but any sane person should have gotten the gist.

[HaulCitgo]

A bar isn't just someone else's workplace. There a level of shit that goes along with that gig. That said still an asshole... But one that just needs to direct his terrible game at a patron (preferably someone that gives some inkling of interest) instead of the staff. You can't do that job and not develop some sort of immunity to crass comments.

[brian]

So are they Ds or what?

[DC47]

Bar patron is clearly a D.

[BSF21]

A bar isn't just someone else's workplace. There a level of shit that goes along with that gig. That said still an asshole... But one that just needs to direct his terrible game at a patron (preferably someone that gives some inkling of interest) instead of the staff. You can't do that job and not develop some sort of immunity to crass comments.

I refuse to believe that your chosen profession should come with some sort of "buck up and deal with it" caveat. It's not acceptable to do it to a bank teller, it's not acceptable to do it to a server or a bartender or anyone else. I'd like to get to a point where we're past people needing to ignore people being sexist or racist or bigoted assholes and they're called out in public for being exactly what they are. This dude that decided to repeatedly sexually harass someone apparently has a wife and a couple daughters he is pretty fond of. Wonder how he would feel were the situation reversed?

[HaulCitgo]

Dunno man. The presence of alcohol at that workplace necessarily lends itself to outlandish behavior. Bars make high margins because of the willingness to put up with drunks. And people go to bars to get drunk and act in ways inappropriate at their homes and workplaces. If your teller served up shots they would have to learn coping mechanisms too. Doesn't make it right, just part of the deal.

[degenerasian]

if bank tellers dressed like servers i'd stop online banking.

Again it's that fine line. Bars serve alcohol and dress their servers this way to get customers, the bad apples will harass the servers.

[brian]

I don't think this is very difficult. Sexual harassment is never OK regardless of the job. (I don't think anyone is saying that it is, but it's not something that needs a qualifying "well, but...")

[degenerasian]

I don't think this is very difficult. Sexual harassment is never OK regardless of the job. (I don't think anyone is saying that it is, but it's not something that needs a qualifying "well, but...")

The problem is the bar owner/management doesn't really care if the server is being harassed. If she quits, they just find another. Bottom line is to get butts in seats buying beer.

[govmentchedda]

I don't think this is very difficult. Sexual harassment is never OK regardless of the job. (I don't think anyone is saying that it is, but it's not something that needs a qualifying "well, but...")

The problem is the bar owner/management doesn't really care if the server is being harassed. If she quits, they just find another. Bottom line is to get butts in seats buying beer.

Yeah, fuck that bar then.

[DC47]

Sexuality in the workplace is of course a pretty complex domain. That's certainly true in bars.

I worked in a place that had an attractive female bar tender who courted a certain amount of sexual harassment because it generated good tips. Big tippers got to go further than others and got more favorable attention. Management tried to get her to tone it down in terms of her dress and dialogue, as she was creating an atmosphere that some patrons found uncomfortable. But they didn't want to lose her as she was a major draw. So they didn't lean on her much.

[govmentchedda]

Don't get me wrong, bars (even if they're not breastaurants) are selling sex. However, there's a line, and that line is harassment.

[BSF21]

I don't think this is very difficult. Sexual harassment is never OK regardless of the job. (I don't think anyone is saying that it is, but it's not something that needs a qualifying "well, but...")

The problem is the bar owner/management doesn't really care if the server is being harassed. If she quits, they just find another. Bottom line is to get butts in seats buying beer.

Yeah, fuck that bar then.

For the record just to flesh out the story, the bar owner was the person who kicked the guy out, banned him from the establishment, and has been in contact with his employer regarding his behavior. Those dudes stick up for their own. I know it's not like that at every bar, but it should be. It's a small step towards creating a safer environment for everyone, which we can all use when we're drinking.

[DC47]

Yeah, fuck that bar then.

For the record just to flesh out the story, the bar owner was the person who kicked the guy out, banned him from the establishment, and has been in contact with his employer regarding his behavior. Those dudes stick up for their own. I know it's not like that at every bar, but it should be. It's a small step towards creating a safer environment for everyone, which we can all use when we're drinking.

Very impressive. I've never heard of going to this extent, even among bar and restaurant owners who are women.

[DC47]

Don't get me wrong, bars (even if they're not breastaurants) are selling sex. However, there's a line, and that line is harassment.

I think "line" is too strong a term for what is a multi-dimensional gray area. Both as to what counts as harassment, which is a cultural as well as legal construct, and regarding who is involved. As above, individual employees -- not just employers -- can use their sexuality in various ways.

[Johnnie]

However, I do wish people would be a bit more understanding of the shit that women and minorities have to put up with that some of us have never even given a passing thought to. I don't think that level of political correctness is a bad thing. It's a more humanist perspective we could all gain from.

That's exactly as I feel when it comes to understanding that being a white dude in America has shielded me from bullshit.

The problem is the pendulum for inclusiveness has swung so far to one side that not immediately condemning something like what Steve Martin wrote, instead of at first simply asking "Well what do you mean by that? I'd like some clarity." would be met with "How can you condone this? Do you hate [x group] too?"

I know in my job the level of sensitivity and awareness type training is constant and meticulous, so I can only assume it's the same in the civilian world. I just think, at this point, "political correctness" needs a rebrand to something more to the point and honest because the toxicity around it will now hold it back.

[Shirley]

I just think Steve Martin should have reviewed her SAT scores and resume before he threw his eyeballs in front of the photons flying off her skin (or pictures). What an ass.

[govmentchedda]

Don't get me wrong, bars (even if they're not breastaurants) are selling sex. However, there's a line, and that line is harassment.

I think "line" is too strong a term for what is a multi-dimensional gray area. Both as to what counts as harassment, which is a cultural as well as legal construct, and regarding who is involved. As above, individual employees -- not just employers -- can use their sexuality in various ways.

You're probably correct, especially considering alcohol being involved. It's quite subjective, but it reminds me of the old definition of smut (as compared to artistic nudity)(at least as I remember the comment), "you know it when you see it".

[mister d]

I just think Steve Martin should have reviewed her SAT scores and resume before he threw his eyeballs in front of the photons flying off her skin (or pictures). What an ass.

So you lecture then fall into the same trap???