The National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum MMXV

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:06 pm

369 players (all eras) with 7,331+ PAs ...

10 Worst by fWAR:
360. Larry Parrish (16.9)
361. Claudell Washington (16.9)
362. Larry Bowa (16.7)
363. Charlie Grimm (15.7)
364. Ruben Sierra (13.9)
365. Doc Cramer (9.4)
366. Don Kessinger (7.9)
367. Kid Gleason (7.4)
368. Joe Quinn (6.3)
369. Alfredo Griffin (-1)

10 Worst by fWAR per 1,000 PA:
360. Bill Buckner (1.87)
361. Joe Carter (1.87)
362. Larry Bowa (1.83)
363. Charlie Grimm (1.8)
364. Ruben Sierra (1.58)
365. Doc Cramer (0.95)
366. Don Kessinger (0.93)
367. Kid Gleason (0.9)
368. Joe Quinn (0.86)
369. Alfredo Griffin (-0.14)

10 Worst by wOBA:
360. Bob Boone (0.298)
361. Tommy Corcoran (0.298)
362. Luis Aparicio (0.296)
363. Garry Templeton (0.295)
364. Bill Mazeroski (0.293)
365. Roy McMillan (0.292)
366. Bill Russell (0.291)
367. Don Kessinger (0.287)
368. Larry Bowa (0.282)
369. Alfredo Griffin (0.271)

10 Worst total dWAR:
360. Rusty Staub (-216)
361. Jason Giambi (-223.9)
362. Don Baylor (-233.5)
363. Harold Baines (-235.7)
364. Dave Winfield (-243.9)
365. David Ortiz (-248.4)
366. Adam Dunn (-255.3)
367. Frank Thomas (-267.4)
368. Manny Ramirez (-276.6)
369. Gary Sheffield (-300.9)

(This last part is why, while I'm not going to call Edgar Martinez's HoF candidacy bullshit, I'm skeptical of it. How does he have a -133.5 defensive demerit relative to a guy like Sheffield? Not that fWAR is the be all, end all, but its used by the stat-y people who advocate for Martinez. Sheffield obviously wasn't a good defender, but he was a defender whereas Martinez probably breaks down before 33 if he wasn't allowed to sit for most of the game. This seems like another time where base adjustments don't tell the full story.)

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:08 pm

So, 31% of the voters have now revealed their ballots, and Deadspin wrote a piece I liked discussing the voting.

Curt Schilling’s candidacy definitely appears to have been hurt by his transformation into your Facebook uncle.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:53 pm

I'd be super curious to see how his number would change on an uncapped ballot. I bet he's making the "how do I decide which 10 of my 12 yes votes do I check" decision easier in some cases.

Johnny Carwash · Post by **Johnny Carwash** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:12 pm

Announcement isn't until 6 ET tonight. It used to be earlier, right? Sick of this trend of moving everything to prime time.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:23 pm

Yes, used to be early-mid afternoon. They should be the morning of opening day.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:36 pm

Modern opening day or former opening day where most teams would have day games to begin the year?

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:37 pm

Assuming Raines makes it, which is risky because it relies on something good happening, my only real reasons to get super mad are if Hoffman makes it over 10 more deserving players or someone who shouldn't gets 5%-ed.

Post by **Sabo** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:37 pm

mister d wrote:Modern opening day or former opening day where most teams would have day games to begin the year?

The former Opening Day, where the Reds would play at 1:05 p.m. and the other games would start an hour later out of deference.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:39 pm

Sounds killer.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:39 pm

mister d wrote:Modern opening day or former opening day where most teams would have day games to begin the year?

All teams play at 1 and 4 on the same Opening Day. HOF voting is revealed only to me at 6 AM and I decide whether to make a grand ceremony out of it at around 10 AM or shamefully announce it on Fallon later that night.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:45 pm

Emailed a friend about this today and called it National Get Angry at 6 PM Day.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:28 pm

A_B wrote:Emailed a friend about this today and called it National Get Angry at 6 PM Day.

Emailed your brother about this? Say, you are a fan!

Johnny Carwash · Post by **Johnny Carwash** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:32 pm

Ryan wrote:All teams play at 1 and 4 on the same Opening Day. HOF voting is revealed only to me at 6 AM and I decide whether to make a grand ceremony out of it at around 10 AM or shamefully announce it on Fallon later that night.

This sounds like our President-Elect's plan.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:06 pm

Finally.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:07 pm

Well. It could have been worse.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:08 pm

Hoffman (LOL) and Vlad clear the next year bar. Edgar up 15%, Mussina jumps almost 10%. Jorge falls off which seriously sucks.

Name 2017 votes (percent) Years on ballot
Jeff Bagwell 381 (86.2) 7
Tim Raines 380 (86.0) 10
Ivan Rodriguez 336 (76.0) 1
Trevor Hoffman 327 (74.0) 2
Vladimir Guerrero 317 (71.7) 1
Edgar Martinez 259 (58.6) 8
Roger Clemens 239 (54.1) 5
Barry Bonds 238 (53.8) 5
Mike Mussina 229 (51.8) 4
Curt Schilling 199 (45.0) 5
Lee Smith 151 (34.2) 15
Manny Ramirez 105 (23.8) 1
Larry Walker 97 (21.9) 7
Fred McGriff 96 (21.7) 9
Jeff Kent 74 (16.7) 4
Gary Sheffield 59 (13.3) 3
Billy Wagner 45 (10.2) 2
Sammy Sosa 38 (8.6) 5
Jorge Posada 17 (3.8) 1

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:09 pm

Schilling found a way to lose 7% which is both wrong and hilarious.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:11 pm

Kinda wish Cameron had gotten one vote.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:28 pm

Who gets more votes next year - Rolen or Vizquel?

Chipper's a lock - him and Vlad make a fun pairing.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:58 pm

Ryan wrote:Who gets more votes next year - Rolen or Vizquel?

Please don't. Not yet.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:02 pm

Good ballot, huh? Thome will get in, I'd think. Chipper. Andruw and Rolen won't get nearly enough, Vizquel and Carpenter will get too much. Johnny Damon will publicity whore for a while. I have no f'ing clue what to do about Johan.

(And isn't it weird that no one ever seems to bring up Trevor Hoffman's playoff "struggles"? Very weird!)

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:08 pm

I thought Pudge had PED rumors about him. Didn't seem to affect him like it affects others.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:22 pm

Completely skipped over Santana.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:40 pm

Also in the HOF - Tim Raines' family, his fireplace, his sweater, and his chair.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:42 pm

I just looked at his page and the one comp that seems to loom large and maybe accurate is Guidry.

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:45 pm

Has anyone checked on Jonah Keri?

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:55 pm

mister d wrote:I just looked at his page and the one comp that seems to loom large and maybe accurate is Guidry.

I would have traded Buchholz for Guidry too so yeah

LewP · Post by **LewP** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:59 pm

Congrats Pudge!!!

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:59 pm

On the total other end of the spectrum, Curt Schilling is fighting with a fake Sidney Ponson twitter account. For real.

Post by **Sabo** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:04 pm

mister d wrote:On the total other end of the spectrum, Curt Schilling is fighting with a fake Sidney Ponson twitter account. For real.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:01 pm

This was a good three hours.

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:28 am

Woohoo!

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:06 am

I'm thinking more and more Posada got Raines'd to Piazza's Henderson. Fangraphs has him 6th since integration in full-time catcher oWAR, 3rd in wOBA. Not saying he's definitely in, but he shouldn't be off-ballot in one year either.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:07 am

Eh. If he weren't a yankee would you feel same way? It's a bit surprising, but his counting numbers are not very good at all, and I sure don't remember him being talked about as a defensive savant like Pudge.

Edit: And it's the stupid only vote for 10 that hurts more than anything I think.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:16 am

That's why I used Piazza as the comp, as the offense "mostly" career catcher.

Posada: .273/.374/.474 (.367)
Pudge-Rod: .296/.334/.464 (.344)

I'm not saying he's in, I'm just saying that if you look at comps there's a very good argument to be made he's the best eligible catcher of (blank) era to not be in. That should be enough to atleast hang on the ballot.

Johnny Carwash · Post by **Johnny Carwash** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:31 am

Thing I wouldn't have guessed: Pudge is the first new HOFer to have played even one game for the Tigers since Al Kaline in 1974.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:32 am

mister d wrote:That's why I used Piazza as the comp, as the offense "mostly" career catcher.

Posada: .273/.374/.474 (.367)
Pudge-Rod: .296/.334/.464 (.344)

I'm not saying he's in, I'm just saying that if you look at comps there's a very good argument to be made he's the best eligible catcher of (blank) era to not be in. That should be enough to atleast hang on the ballot.

Agreed. I think there are two other factors at play: because C is thought of as a "defense first" position, guys like Posada wind up underrated. I'd vote Posada over Molina, for example, but I bet Molina gets much more support due to the Gold Gloves. Also, somehow every position player besides Jeter from the Yankees dynasty has wound up criminally overlooked historically. I will never understand how Bernie Williams got so little HOF attention.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:01 pm

God, Molina is going to be infuriating. His candidacy is going to make Jim Rice's look valid.

In terms of HoF, I have Bernie a clear 3rd behind Posada and Pettitte. None of the three should probably be in, end of the day, but Bernie is the easiest no for me. If Edmonds and Lofton (and probably Andruw) can't get in, there's no way I could make a case for Bernie.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:40 pm

mister d wrote:God, Molina is going to be infuriating. His candidacy is going to make Jim Rice's look valid.

In terms of HoF, I have Bernie a clear 3rd behind Posada and Pettitte. None of the three should probably be in, end of the day, but Bernie is the easiest no for me. If Edmonds and Lofton (and probably Andruw) can't get in, there's no way I could make a case for Bernie.

You mean this isn't the story you wanted to read about yesterday's vote: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball ... ba708.html

Cardinals fans and media give Molina the full on Jeter treatment even though he's less than half the player.

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:33 pm

Isn't the real issue here how the stupid PED issue (and the 10 vote limit, which I don't oppose) is causing guys who at least merit discussion to fall below 5%? I don't think Posada is in, but his career at least deserved a couple of voting cycles worth of consideration.