Trump Administration Meltdown Thread...

[DaveInSeattle]

I can't believe this day is here. Stacey Dash is 50.

And has been let go by Fox News.

[DSafetyGuy]

Popovich should run in 2020. I'm fucking serious. Now that we've lowered the bar so far, a person without government experience but who is highly accomplished in his field and is intelligent and self-aware is absolutely a viable candidate.

He is one of three NBA coaches who have made statements before or during this season that make them vastly more qualified to be president than the actual one, with Stan Van Gundy and Steve Kerr as the others. Put any two of the three on the ticket.

[testuser2]

A good friend of mine from college, who is one of the most liberal people I've ever met, told me last weekend he was considering learning how to shoot a pistol and eventually get a concealed-carry permit. I was floored ... and then I gave him advice on which caliber to carry.

I'd love to hear your advice. I could also use some ideas on how to get the wife on board.

[A_B]

A good friend of mine from college, who is one of the most liberal people I've ever met, told me last weekend he was considering learning how to shoot a pistol and eventually get a concealed-carry permit. I was floored ... and then I gave him advice on which caliber to carry.

I'd love to hear your advice. I could also use some ideas on how to get the wife on board.

Once you know how to handle a firearm, I feel like you should be able to convince her.

[Sabo]

A good friend of mine from college, who is one of the most liberal people I've ever met, told me last weekend he was considering learning how to shoot a pistol and eventually get a concealed-carry permit. I was floored ... and then I gave him advice on which caliber to carry.

I'd love to hear your advice. I could also use some ideas on how to get the wife on board.

I'll send you a PM with my thoughts. I'm currently traveling for work and won't have time to respond until late today or tomorrow.

[degenerasian]

I don't understand the protests message today. Signs like hear our voices and ignorance is not a vision. Are people being oppressed?

Well, the newly inaugurated President openly bragged about sexually assaulting women, has pledged to appoint an anti-choice Supreme Court justice, and picked a VP who's as bad on women's rights issues as it gets. Plus the leaders of Congress have already taken steps to defund Planned Parenthood. So I'd say it's pretty easy to see why women would organize in mass for political protests.

I do understand that but when I see women carrying signs and wearing T-shirts saying "I'm a nasty woman" or "This President can't grab me by the pussy" is sort of defeats the purpose for me. It's great that people showed up in the numbers they did. I just wish the messaging was better. Have actual signs that say "Save Planned Parenthood" or "Pro-Choice!"

[Steve of phpBB]

I don't understand the protests message today. Signs like hear our voices and ignorance is not a vision. Are people being oppressed?

Well, the newly inaugurated President openly bragged about sexually assaulting women, has pledged to appoint an anti-choice Supreme Court justice, and picked a VP who's as bad on women's rights issues as it gets. Plus the leaders of Congress have already taken steps to defund Planned Parenthood. So I'd say it's pretty easy to see why women would organize in mass for political protests.

I do understand that but when I see women carrying signs and wearing T-shirts saying "I'm a nasty woman" or "This President can't grab me by the pussy" is sort of defeats the purpose for me. It's great that people showed up in the numbers they did. I just wish the messaging was better. Have actual signs that say "Save Planned Parenthood" or "Pro-Choice!"

There were lots of signs like that, but they don't get pictured in the news.

At any rate, I think the pussy and nasty woman references were 100% appropriate given that they are based on Trump's own statements and highlighted his misogyny. This is a very serious situation. If it calls for bad words, so be it.

[degenerasian]

I don't understand the protests message today. Signs like hear our voices and ignorance is not a vision. Are people being oppressed?

Well, the newly inaugurated President openly bragged about sexually assaulting women, has pledged to appoint an anti-choice Supreme Court justice, and picked a VP who's as bad on women's rights issues as it gets. Plus the leaders of Congress have already taken steps to defund Planned Parenthood. So I'd say it's pretty easy to see why women would organize in mass for political protests.

I do understand that but when I see women carrying signs and wearing T-shirts saying "I'm a nasty woman" or "This President can't grab me by the pussy" is sort of defeats the purpose for me. It's great that people showed up in the numbers they did. I just wish the messaging was better. Have actual signs that say "Save Planned Parenthood" or "Pro-Choice!"

There were lots of signs like that, but they don't get pictured in the news.

At any rate, I think the pussy and nasty woman references were 100% appropriate given that they are based on Trump's own statements and highlighted his misogyny. This is a very serious situation. If it calls for bad words, so be it.

Lots of great pictures here.

[brian]

DoD throwing shade at Toddler Trump?

[Joe K]

I don't understand the protests message today. Signs like hear our voices and ignorance is not a vision. Are people being oppressed?

Well, the newly inaugurated President openly bragged about sexually assaulting women, has pledged to appoint an anti-choice Supreme Court justice, and picked a VP who's as bad on women's rights issues as it gets. Plus the leaders of Congress have already taken steps to defund Planned Parenthood. So I'd say it's pretty easy to see why women would organize in mass for political protests.

I do understand that but when I see women carrying signs and wearing T-shirts saying "I'm a nasty woman" or "This President can't grab me by the pussy" is sort of defeats the purpose for me. It's great that people showed up in the numbers they did. I just wish the messaging was better. Have actual signs that say "Save Planned Parenthood" or "Pro-Choice!"

There were lots of signs like that, but they don't get pictured in the news.

At any rate, I think the pussy and nasty woman references were 100% appropriate given that they are based on Trump's own statements and highlighted his misogyny. This is a very serious situation. If it calls for bad words, so be it.

Don't want to single out Degen, but if people think that the importance of millions of people taking to the streets in the largest protest in American history is nullified by signs that say "pussy" or "nasty," then I'd guess they'd look for any excuse they can find to discredit any and all anti-government protests.

[degenerasian]

I don't understand the protests message today. Signs like hear our voices and ignorance is not a vision. Are people being oppressed?

Well, the newly inaugurated President openly bragged about sexually assaulting women, has pledged to appoint an anti-choice Supreme Court justice, and picked a VP who's as bad on women's rights issues as it gets. Plus the leaders of Congress have already taken steps to defund Planned Parenthood. So I'd say it's pretty easy to see why women would organize in mass for political protests.

I do understand that but when I see women carrying signs and wearing T-shirts saying "I'm a nasty woman" or "This President can't grab me by the pussy" is sort of defeats the purpose for me. It's great that people showed up in the numbers they did. I just wish the messaging was better. Have actual signs that say "Save Planned Parenthood" or "Pro-Choice!"

There were lots of signs like that, but they don't get pictured in the news.

At any rate, I think the pussy and nasty woman references were 100% appropriate given that they are based on Trump's own statements and highlighted his misogyny. This is a very serious situation. If it calls for bad words, so be it.

Don't want to single out Degen, but if people think that the importance of millions of people taking to the streets in the largest protest in American history is nullified by signs that say "pussy" or "nasty," then I'd guess they'd look for any excuse they can find to discredit any and all anti-government protests.

You can single me out. I admit I don't like identity politics and I think messaging is very important. These probably skew my opinion on many issues and I don't like it when too many messages get jumbled. For example, flags are important to me and I don't like them on clothing or on the walls or anywhere but on a flag pole. In a protest, stay on topic. There shouldn't be too many signs. When you go to a Tibet protest all the signs say FREE TIBET, TIBETANS against CHINA. There are no "FEMINISTS FOR TIBET" signs there. Stay on topic leave your other agendas for those protests.

There shouldn't be too many young kids. I've been to many anti Vietnamese communist protests in my life. NO KIDS ALLOWED. I was never allowed to go with my dad until i was 15. It cheapens the message when a 3 year old is holding a sign they definitely cannot understand.

So I don't think pussy or nasty is the issue here. Trump isn't anti-abortion because he thinks Hillary is nasty woman.

[Giff]

Trump probably isn't even anti-abortion.

[mister d]

That's kind of exactly it. He's probably not anti-abortion, but he clearly sees women as inferior, hence the broad(pun)er message here.



(Also, having a long list of decorum rules about protests seems almost ironic.)

[P.D.X.]

When you go to a Tibet protest all the signs say FREE TIBET, TIBETANS against CHINA. There are no "FEMINISTS FOR TIBET" signs there. Stay on topic leave your other agendas for those protests.

This leads me to think that you're not really clear on what was being protested on Saturday.

[The Sybian]

Actually, this chart wasn't needed back then. Everyone accepted the fact.

I'm late to the party, but I wanted to agree with the Moderator tone. Insults do nothing but entrench opposing beliefs and kind of makes the point against Liberals. While I think a lot of the anger and hate thrown at Obama was based on race, I don't think all people who disagreed with Obama were racists, much like many who voted for Trump aren't racist and misogynistic, they just ignored all of the racist and misogynistic or disliked Hillary so much, they held their nose and voted for Trump.

That said, it drives me nuts reading and watching all of the arguments that Liberals need to stop being sore losers and "get over it." Despite the strawman argument from just about all of the Pro-Trump media, nobody is challenging that Trump won the election, or protesting for a redo. The protests and criticism is against what Trump says, stands for, who he is nominating, and most important to me, his desire to rule as a dictator, and my fear that Congress won't stop him.

Trump frequently said he admires the leadership styles of murderous dictators like Putin, the Kim Dynasty, Saddam Hussein... Sure, he said "they did some very bad things," but how can anyone rail against wanting to prevent tyranny? Is there anything more American than protesting tyranny?

Trump won on the idea of "draining the Swamp," an idea he completely laughed at in a speech in his Exalt Me tour. Look at his nominees, almost entirely corrupt billionaires who are the antithesis of the Agencies and Departments they are nominated to run, in addition to many being completely unqualified. Congress is pushing through the nominations without proper ethics vetting. That is terrifying. Trump is refusing to release his taxes or give up his business interests, the scope of which we don't know, because he won't release that information. This from a guy campaigning on more transparency in government and getting rid of corruption. He is abusing his power to bully foreign governments to switch events to his hotels, vote to protect the views from, his golf course in Scotland, invite his daughter to a meeting with high Japanese government officials while she is trying to get government approval on a major project. We are supposed to sit back and let him do this?

How are Trump supporters not concerned with his constant lies? How are they not troubled by his complete inability to accept even the slightest criticism without going on a Twitter tirade and throwing out ludicrous statements like he won the greatest electoral landslide in history? His mouthpieces continue to say this, yet his margin of victory ranks 46th out of 56. But, he relies on "alternative facts," even when these facts are definitively measurable. It is absolutely astounding.

CNN started to call Trump on his lies, so they are now labeled "fake news," while the National Enquirer was the only "newspaper" that endorsed Trump, and he referred to that complete joke as "the media" supports him. He is talking about granting access only to media outlets that praise him. How is that not terrifying? The nonpartisan Office of Government notes he is in ethical violation of the Constitution's emoluments clause, so he threatens to eliminate the OGE. How is that not terrifying?

[degenerasian]

When you go to a Tibet protest all the signs say FREE TIBET, TIBETANS against CHINA. There are no "FEMINISTS FOR TIBET" signs there. Stay on topic leave your other agendas for those protests.

This leads me to think that you're not really clear on what was being protested on Saturday.

That may be true. My previous point was that I don't like identity politics so that plays into my argument. If I go to this protest my sign will say "PRO-CHOICE' or "SAVE PLANNED PARENTHOOD" or "REJECT THE MUSLIM REGISTRY" or "AMERICA SHOULD BE FOR EVERYONE.

I am protesting as an American, not an identity. The nanosecond I write "ASIAN-AMERICANS FOR" on a sign, I've failed.

[The Sybian]

When you go to a Tibet protest all the signs say FREE TIBET, TIBETANS against CHINA. There are no "FEMINISTS FOR TIBET" signs there. Stay on topic leave your other agendas for those protests.

This leads me to think that you're not really clear on what was being protested on Saturday.

Right? Degen, you often confuse me, but the reason for the WOMEN's March movement is you know, related to women's issues and standing up to a publicly misogynistic President known for bragging about sexually assaulting women by "grabbing them by the pussy, because when you are rich you can do that." And publicly bragging about being able to walk into the dressing room and ogling teenagers changing because he owns the pageant?

Republican state governments have been passing degrading paternalistic laws trying to prevent women from their Right to have an abortion. From requiring doctors to conduct medically useless and invasive vaginal probes, to making doctors subject women to anti-abortion propaganda, because women aren't intelligent or competent enough to make these decisions. Or making them go to the doctor, listen to the propaganda, then return 3 days later to "think about it." Highly problematic in states that have very few abortion clinics and women have to travel hundreds of miles. This has been going on for 40+ years, so now that Republicans have all 3 branches of government, women are worried about losing their Right to choose. Throw in defunding Planned Parenthood, which is the only women's health clinic available to millions of women, coupled with taking health insurance away from millions of women, and yeah, this is a fucking WOMEN's movement to protect WOMEN's Rights.

Republicans and Conservatives have always fought against legislating equal pay laws for women. Throw in a Dept of Labor nominee who openly flaunts labor laws and the DoL, and believes in removing all laws protecting workers, and yeah, women are concerned with losing all of the recently passed laws enforcing equal pay for women.

[Pruitt]

When you go to a Tibet protest all the signs say FREE TIBET, TIBETANS against CHINA. There are no "FEMINISTS FOR TIBET" signs there. Stay on topic leave your other agendas for those protests.

This leads me to think that you're not really clear on what was being protested on Saturday.

That may be true. My previous point was that I don't like identity politics so that plays into my argument. If I go to this protest my sign will say "PRO-CHOICE' or "SAVE PLANNED PARENTHOOD" or "REJECT THE MUSLIM REGISTRY" or "AMERICA SHOULD BE FOR EVERYONE.

I am protesting as an American, not an identity. The nanosecond I write "ASIAN-AMERICANS FOR" on a sign, I've failed.

Honestly, I think the fact that there were hundreds of thousands of people marching - in mid-winter - was the point. Sure, there was a confusion of signs, but this number of (largely) women of all races is a lot harder for the media and the powers that be to ignore or demonize than a march of Black people.

Terrible to say, but even a mouth-breathing imbecile would look at the marchers from Saturday and see at least one person that they could identify with. An older white woman let's say. Johnny Yokel doesn't feel that way if the crowd is 90% Black.

Let's hope these marches continue.

[Giff]

When you go to a Tibet protest all the signs say FREE TIBET, TIBETANS against CHINA. There are no "FEMINISTS FOR TIBET" signs there. Stay on topic leave your other agendas for those protests.

This leads me to think that you're not really clear on what was being protested on Saturday.

That may be true. My previous point was that I don't like identity politics so that plays into my argument. If I go to this protest my sign will say "PRO-CHOICE' or "SAVE PLANNED PARENTHOOD" or "REJECT THE MUSLIM REGISTRY" or "AMERICA SHOULD BE FOR EVERYONE.

I am protesting as an American, not an identity. The nanosecond I write "ASIAN-AMERICANS FOR" on a sign, I've failed.

Honestly, I think the fact that there were hundreds of thousands of people marching - in mid-winter - was the point. Sure, there was a confusion of signs, but this number of (largely) women of all races is a lot harder for the media and the powers that be to ignore or demonize than a march of Black people.

Terrible to say, but even a mouth-breathing imbecile would look at the marchers from Saturday and see at least one person that they could identify with. An older white woman let's say. Johnny Yokel doesn't feel that way if the crowd is 90% Black.

Let's hope these marches continue.

I like this idea for the next one. Marches on 4/15 to protest him not releasing his taxes.

[DaveInSeattle]

Trump probably isn't even anti-abortion.

He's anti-abortion enough to win the support of Republican voters. I absolutely guarantee that he's paid for a few abortions in his time.

[The Sybian]

When you go to a Tibet protest all the signs say FREE TIBET, TIBETANS against CHINA. There are no "FEMINISTS FOR TIBET" signs there. Stay on topic leave your other agendas for those protests.

This leads me to think that you're not really clear on what was being protested on Saturday.

That may be true. My previous point was that I don't like identity politics so that plays into my argument. If I go to this protest my sign will say "PRO-CHOICE' or "SAVE PLANNED PARENTHOOD" or "REJECT THE MUSLIM REGISTRY" or "AMERICA SHOULD BE FOR EVERYONE.

I am protesting as an American, not an identity. The nanosecond I write "ASIAN-AMERICANS FOR" on a sign, I've failed.

Right, but this protest was to maintain women's rights. There were a hell of a lot of men out there, too. I get your point about identity politics, but until various minority groups are treated equally, there needs to be a movement to move them closer to equality.

If you are referring to signs like the popular "Yellow Peril for Black Power," I see that as a statement of solidarity. Asians were once treated horrendously as subhuman, but have made enormous strides towards equality. I don't see a problem with saying "we overcame similar problems and unite behind your cause." I do get the push back, but until we live in a world without discrimination, identity politics is inevitable, as identity is causing disparity. I hate the argument that minorities are causing divisiveness by trying to get equality. Like the "All Lives Matter" response to BLM. Of course all lives matter, BLM isn't trying to put blacks above whites, they are pointing out that society and the media give more importance to white lives. How many missing children or women stories go national when the child isn't white? How many times does a story of a cop killing unjustifiably killing a man lead to millions blowing it off and calling the victim a thug?

[The Sybian]

Trump probably isn't even anti-abortion.

He's anti-abortion enough to win the support of Republican voters. I absolutely guarantee that he's paid for a few abortions in his time.

And prior to Roe v. Wade, threw a bunch of women down the stairs, or paid someone to punch them in the stomach. (because his hands are too small to terminate a pregnancy)

[mister d]

"PLEASE RECONSIDER YOUR PREVIOUS COMMENTS"

[Rex]

You can't say that when his network's decision was to not broadcast Spicer's comments live and instead show march coverage

Well there goes that.




Why have one state TV network when you can have 10 of them?

[Johnnie]

I like this idea for the next one. Marches on 4/15 to protest him not releasing his taxes.

We're lucky it's a Saturday this year.

[mister d]

He apparently just said, quote, "... sometimes we can disagree with the facts".

[Pruitt]

Sean Spicer's Carefully Chosen Battles

Spicer Hates Dippin' Dots

[The Sybian]

As much fun as it is to make fun of Spicer and Kellyanne Conway, the media is so focused on calling them and Trump out for lying about something so petty and stupid as the size of the inauguration crowd, that they aren't adequately discussing Trump's ongoing financial conflicts of interest, pushing through nominations without getting their disclosure documents, and everything else that matters. I still can't figure out if this is brilliant strategy, or just the insecurity of a Narcissist with the emotional development of a spoiled 5 year old.

[mister d]

OR ... is it important to focus on something so clear and simple as crowd size to firmly establish (to the idiots so far unaware) that these people will lie about anything?

[Brontoburglar]

this is us

[degenerasian]

When you go to a Tibet protest all the signs say FREE TIBET, TIBETANS against CHINA. There are no "FEMINISTS FOR TIBET" signs there. Stay on topic leave your other agendas for those protests.

This leads me to think that you're not really clear on what was being protested on Saturday.

That may be true. My previous point was that I don't like identity politics so that plays into my argument. If I go to this protest my sign will say "PRO-CHOICE' or "SAVE PLANNED PARENTHOOD" or "REJECT THE MUSLIM REGISTRY" or "AMERICA SHOULD BE FOR EVERYONE.

I am protesting as an American, not an identity. The nanosecond I write "ASIAN-AMERICANS FOR" on a sign, I've failed.

Right, but this protest was to maintain women's rights. There were a hell of a lot of men out there, too. I get your point about identity politics, but until various minority groups are treated equally, there needs to be a movement to move them closer to equality.

If you are referring to signs like the popular "Yellow Peril for Black Power," I see that as a statement of solidarity. Asians were once treated horrendously as subhuman, but have made enormous strides towards equality. I don't see a problem with saying "we overcame similar problems and unite behind your cause." I do get the push back, but until we live in a world without discrimination, identity politics is inevitable, as identity is causing disparity. I hate the argument that minorities are causing divisiveness by trying to get equality. Like the "All Lives Matter" response to BLM. Of course all lives matter, BLM isn't trying to put blacks above whites, they are pointing out that society and the media give more importance to white lives. How many missing children or women stories go national when the child isn't white? How many times does a story of a cop killing unjustifiably killing a man lead to millions blowing it off and calling the victim a thug?

That's the chicken and egg. Minorities want to be treated equally but when they protest as a group they do it behind their identity. I think that pisses white people off. A bunch of Asians should just go as a group (or go with all people) without the words Asian-American or yellow behind them. Yes they suffered but that should not be used for comparison. We support you as Americans.

Black Lives Matter is a great cause because the evidence is clear, police shoot black kids because they don't matter. Blacks marching together as a group. I get that. Asian-Americans for Black Lives Matter is dumb. All Lives Matter is idiotic.

Your calls for a protest on 4/15 is an excellent idea.

[The Sybian]

Your calls for a protest on 4/15 is an excellent idea.

It's great, but 8 months too late. If his taxes were public, I have no doubt it would have ended his campaign immediately. But hey, Trump is going to eliminate corruption and bring back government transparency!

[Gunpowder]

Every protest that isn't led by white people pisses white people off.

[degenerasian]

Every protest that isn't led by white people pisses white people off.

That's right. That's why minorities shouldn't always use their identity when protesting and they should in fact join in on white protests such as protests against pipelines!

[Joe K]

Every protest that isn't led by white people pisses white people off.

That's right. That's why minorities shouldn't always use their identity when protesting and they should in fact join in on white protests such as protests against pipelines!

Uh, I may be missing a joke here, but the big recent (and successful!) anti-pipeline protests in North Dakota were led by Native Americans and very much rooted in their Native American identity.

[degenerasian]

Every protest that isn't led by white people pisses white people off.

That's right. That's why minorities shouldn't always use their identity when protesting and they should in fact join in on white protests such as protests against pipelines!

Uh, I may be missing a joke here, but the big recent (and successful!) anti-pipeline protests in North Dakota were led by Native Americans and very much rooted in their Native American identity.

Yes but I believe it's the protest with the most white people attending. I could be wrong.
Another one that comes to mind are Marineland Animal Defense (MAD) protests.

[Rush2112]

[Johnnie]

I'm liking the back and forth as to how to flesh out a protest properly to get the message across. I'm not exactly sure myself so it's cool to hear multiple sides, but one thing that will not help is when Madonna talks about blowing up the White House.

[Johnnie]

Heh.



No wonder he met with Kanye:

[Steve of phpBB]

OR ... is it important to focus on something so clear and simple as crowd size to firmly establish (to the idiots so far unaware) that these people will lie about anything?

I agree with this. It's not hugely important because of what the numbers were - although that is important too. It's a big deal because it shows how dishonest Trump and his people are continuing to be even after taking office, their willingness to gaslight, and Trump's desperate need to feel worshipped.

Salt Lake City had its march today, from downtown up the hill to the state capitol, to coincide with the legislature's first day. I guess we got around 6,000, which isn't much but still apparently makes it the largest demonstration at the Utah Capitol.

My 78-year-old Mom made it up the hill, though we had to stop several times for her to catch her breath. And even after we made it to the top, we could look back and see people still marching in. Then everyone filled every available spot inside the capitol building itself.

In addition to my Mom, I had my wife and 13yo daughter in attendance.

I'm still not sure which is more embarrassing when it comes to all the pussy signs - seeing them with my mom or my daughter.