2017 NCAA Tournament

EnochRoot · Post by **EnochRoot** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:54 am

Maryland played like it didn't belong in the tournament, and at least the MBB program wishes it never left the ACC. I mean, not to go all #HotTake-y here, but how the hell does Xavier confuse you?

duff · Post by **duff** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:06 am

Because they have a better coach.

EnochRoot · Post by **EnochRoot** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:19 am

duff wrote:Because they have a better coach.

Which would mean the Big Ten was a steaming pile of dog shit this year?

(admittedly, a yuuuge chunk of my caring about CBB up and died during the days the Big East was raided)...

duff · Post by **duff** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:32 am

The Big Ten was mediocre. But Chris Mack is a better coach than Mark Turgeon. Hands down.

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:50 am

EnochRoot wrote:Maryland played like it didn't belong in the tournament, and at least the MBB program wishes it never left the ACC. I mean, not to go all #HotTake-y here, but how the hell does Xavier confuse you?

Maryland did not look at all comfortable with the defensive looks that Xavier gave them. Switching between a few different zones and man-to-man confused the terps. Maryland loves the pick for Cowan/Melo to drive the lane and the pick and slip for their bigs. The zones took that away so every time down Maryland first had to figure out what Xavier was going to dictate to them.

DSafetyGuy · Post by **DSafetyGuy** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:12 am

Shirley wrote:I was not OK at that point. Thanks for checking. It was a tough game to watch, but UVA got it done. They already announced that Isaiah Wilkins won't play on Saturday though. That hurts.

DSafe, UVA's offensive efficiency rankings the past four years - 27, 22, 8, 37. Not too bad, huh? Especially considering that they have never really had many big-talent scoring-type players.

Folks tend to overvalue UVA's D and undervalue their O based solely on the number of points they give up and score. I'm amazed that so many TV guys still get that wrong, but they do.

That said, this year, the team has had some really bad offensive games. They have a very good three-point shooting team, but they have almost no inside scoring. When they kicked Austin Nichols off the team, it doomed their offense to be one-dimensional. It's extra tricky, because Tony's standard offense is the blocker-mover, which requires two big screeners, who can then post or roll. UVA doesn't really have guys who can do that, so he's had to improvise. They've run a lot of one-in-four-out this year to mixed results.

Today, UVA actually played with 5 guards for large chunks of the game. I've never seen Bennett run that O. They spread UNCW out and drove the lanes - again something they've never done before. Maybe because this team has the worst finishing guards I've ever seen. It worked just well enough today though.

So anyway, UVA doesn't run a high-scoring offense, but that doesn't mean it's bad. They don't just stand around for 25 seconds and then jack a bad shot like a lot of slow teams do. Frankly, as much attention is paid to Bennett's D, as a UVA fan, my favorite part is watching the offense when it's cooking. It's beautiful, and after years of Jeff Jones (to a lesser degree), Pete Gillen, and Dave Leitao teams, having a team that actually knows how to move and create good looks on O is fantastic.

First, thanks for answering. I wanted to ask because, like another team in orange I know, when they're having a stretch with trouble scoring, Virginia's offense looks borderline painful and their pace of play can make it seem worse than what it actually is. Their system doesn't lead to them bringing in dynamic one-on-one offensive players and is more team reliant, so it can look worse than what it is.

I love Perrantes, though. The shift in athleticism in the NBA will hurt his professional prospects, but a he's such a smart point guard, great at running a team, and drills threes. If it was two decades earlier, he'd be staring at a ten-year NBA career as a backup point. With elite athletes who are now much more the rule than the exception, I don't know if that will happen for him.

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:59 am

Yesterday it hit home how old and pathetic I have gotten. I got caught up in work and forgot the tournament was even happening yesterday afternoon, until I was walking to pick up my car and saw a bunch of people in Northwestern and North Dakota shirts. Fuck.

Post by **Shirley** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:12 pm

DSafetyGuy wrote:I love Perrantes, though. The shift in athleticism in the NBA will hurt his professional prospects, but a he's such a smart point guard, great at running a team, and drills threes. If it was two decades earlier, he'd be staring at a ten-year NBA career as a backup point. With elite athletes who are now much more the rule than the exception, I don't know if that will happen for him.

He's a great college player - just perfect for Tony Bennett's system - but I don't see him playing in the NBA. He could have a long career overseas, I'd think. Or maybe a long career as a great coach. He just really understands the game and has a great temperament.

BTW, I suspect UVA's offense will be a lot better next year. Perrantes is the only player they lose, and they have a lot of young guys who have great offensive instincts. The problem again will be interior scoring, so we have to hope for additional development for Salt (a sophomore), Diakite (a very talented freshman), and Jay Huff (redshirting this year, but is 7'0" and can dunk from the free throw line).

It'll be weird watching the Cavs without Perrantes though.

duff · Post by **duff** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:32 pm

That Michigan/OSU game was lots of fun.

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:40 pm

the tournament hasn't started until someone hits a buzzer beater to cover.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:43 pm

SAM CASSELL JR?!?!

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:08 pm

Ryan wrote:SAM CASSELL JR?!?!

had the same incredulous thought

L-Jam3 · Post by **L-Jam3** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:10 pm

Looking back, maybe it wasn't a good idea for Seton Hall to hire Nick Anderson to teach shooting clutch free throws.

BSF21 · Post by **BSF21** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:26 pm

That was the weakest flagrant call I've ever seen.

Post by **brian** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:40 pm

Rex wrote:the tournament hasn't started until someone hits a buzzer beater to cover.

I had a three-team parlay lose and cost me $200 because Iona couldn't his a meaningless three to cover. Iona +15.5, lost by 16. <sad trombone>

howard · Post by **howard** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:19 pm

Thank you for the good wishes above. Davis has none chance this evening, they have no height, their defensive effort will be ineffective against this talent laden Kansas, and the Ags point guard has been in a shell since the start of the Big West tourney. The Nigerian kid Chima Moneke could play at any other school in the state not named UCLA, and they have a couple of shooters that can get hot. Man this conference, never all that strong beyond UNLV, is very weak these days. Five of the nine programs were D2 until recently.

But Jim Les has done a very nice job building the program. I guess he liked the area from his years playing for the Kings, and he seems to have gotten a bad deal being run out of his alma mater Bradley after just two subpar seasons. To become a league power he just needs to keep some borderline Sacramento talent at home, and lure one or two Oakland/East Bay players.

ETA: one twitter hashtag for Aggie fans is #LesDance. I thought that was cute.

Seeing the old school on tv is cool, but despite the win they looked like they don't belong on Wednesday. This could be nasty, and that ain't no reverse jinx attempt. And at least we have a kick-ass fight song, maybe top 15.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-fJpifiRhQ

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:55 pm

BSF21 wrote:That was the weakest flagrant call I've ever seen.

Bad dive for soccer (futbol).

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:59 pm

PAC-12 is 5-0.

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:54 am

What a monster day the networks got for themselves on Sunday.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:12 am

Rex wrote:What a monster day the networks got for themselves on Sunday.

Seriously. UCLA, Kentucky, UNC, Duke, Kansas and Louisville have to be the six biggest programs in the sport when both historical and recent success are taken into account. Indiana hasn't done much in the last 25 years (with the exception of the 2002 run), and UConn (surprisingly low profile for having 4 titles since 1999) hadn't done anything before then.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:30 pm

One of the things that bugs me the most about the college game is how refs consistently go way overboard with calling offensive fouls. Wisconsin just got hurt by a terrible offensive foul call against Koenig that gave him his 4th foul with 14 minutes left. Jenkins was still sliding over when Koenig his feet to take his shot. That play should never be called on the offensive player.

EnochRoot · Post by **EnochRoot** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:34 pm

Joe K wrote:
Rex wrote:What a monster day the networks got for themselves on Sunday.
Seriously. UCLA, Kentucky, UNC, Duke, Kansas and Louisville have to be the six biggest programs in the sport when both historical and recent success are taken into account. Indiana hasn't done much in the last 25 years (with the exception of the 2002 run), and UConn (surprisingly low profile for having 4 titles since 1999) hadn't done anything before then.

EnochRoot wrote:[...]

(admittedly, a yuuuge chunk of my caring about CBB up and died during the days the Big East was raided)...

Compound that with Calhoun's retirement, and UConn's caught up in a steaming pile of mediocrity.

rass · Post by **rass** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:21 pm

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:04 pm

Villanova right back to not lasting beyond the first weekend. Atleast something is going right these days.

Post by **brian** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:28 pm

You guys are welcome to your opinion but I hate watching Wisconsin and Virginia. It's like watching a bum fight. Give me that Beilein offense or even CMU offense. (Michigan is bottom 10 in possessions per game but top 10 in points per possession and CMU at least runs and guns and shoots the ball all the time.) I'd rather watch an insanely efficient offense or at least a fun offense. Same with college football.

EnochRoot · Post by **EnochRoot** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:12 pm

Couple of thoughts...How or why does a 4 seed get a cushy landing spot approx 100 miles south, in-state?

Oh, and I take back whatever I did that could've been construed as a diss on Xavier. Holy shit did they make FSU look pedestrian. Lesson learned: the ACC sucks, too?

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:58 pm

Shirley wrote:I was not OK at that point. Thanks for checking. It was a tough game to watch, but UVA got it done. They already announced that Isaiah Wilkins won't play on Saturday though. That hurts.

DSafe, UVA's offensive efficiency rankings the past four years - 27, 22, 8, 37. Not too bad, huh? Especially considering that they have never really had many big-talent scoring-type players.

Folks tend to overvalue UVA's D and undervalue their O based solely on the number of points they give up and score. I'm amazed that so many TV guys still get that wrong, but they do.

That said, this year, the team has had some really bad offensive games. They have a very good three-point shooting team, but they have almost no inside scoring. When they kicked Austin Nichols off the team, it doomed their offense to be one-dimensional. It's extra tricky, because Tony's standard offense is the blocker-mover, which requires two big screeners, who can then post or roll. UVA doesn't really have guys who can do that, so he's had to improvise. They've run a lot of one-in-four-out this year to mixed results.

Today, UVA actually played with 5 guards for large chunks of the game. I've never seen Bennett run that O. They spread UNCW out and drove the lanes - again something they've never done before. Maybe because this team has the worst finishing guards I've ever seen. It worked just well enough today though.

So anyway, UVA doesn't run a high-scoring offense, but that doesn't mean it's bad. They don't just stand around for 25 seconds and then jack a bad shot like a lot of slow teams do. Frankly, as much attention is paid to Bennett's D, as a UVA fan, my favorite part is watching the offense when it's cooking. It's beautiful, and after years of Jeff Jones (to a lesser degree), Pete Gillen, and Dave Leitao teams, having a team that actually knows how to move and create good looks on O is fantastic.

The UVA offense was cooking on the really small burner today

Post by **Shirley** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:06 pm

For whatever reason this Virginia team has a tendency to go cold as an entire team. It's contagious. It doesn't happen too often, but it has a few times this year and it's hard to watch. UVA went about three full seasons without losing a game by double figures, but that ended with a vengeance this season.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:26 pm

brian wrote:You guys are welcome to your opinion but I hate watching Wisconsin and Virginia. It's like watching a bum fight. Give me that Beilein offense or even CMU offense. (Michigan is bottom 10 in possessions per game but top 10 in points per possession and CMU at least runs and guns and shoots the ball all the time.) I'd rather watch an insanely efficient offense or at least a fun offense. Same with college football.

For some reason I've seen a lot of Wisconsin this season (they always seem to be on when I'm at the gym) and they may be the least entertaining "good" team I've ever seen. Any disciplined team with plus athleticism on the permiter should also be able to beat them. They'll probably lose to Florida but if they survive that game they'll get murdered by Duke in the Elite Eight.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:33 pm

Flipside is Nigel Hayes is as likeable as they get.

DSafetyGuy · Post by **DSafetyGuy** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:48 pm

EnochRoot wrote:How or why does a 4 seed get a cushy landing spot approx 100 miles south, in-state

A handful of years ago, the tournament went to the "pod" system. Instead of having the eight teams from one half of a region all play the same day in the same arena, they switched to having two four-team groups (seeds 1-16 and 8-9, 5-12 and 4-13, 3-14 and 6-11, or 7-10 and 2-15) with no consideration given to the region. They then tried to limit travel when possible for the teams with a 4-seed or better to "protect" those seeds (a thinly veiled effort to help the major conference/big name schools, who generally hold the top 16 seeds in the tournament -- Gonzaga and two Big East schools - Villanova and Butler - are the non-Power 5 teams this year).

At the same time, they will still stay close to their 1-68 ranking of all tournament teams whenever possible instead of shipping teams away from a close arena. For example, tomorrow #2 seed Duke will play in Greenville, SC, which is 240 miles away, but the closest location. However, they will be playing #7 seed South Carolina, which is 100 miles away from Greenville. Committee could have very easily sent Dayton or Michigan to Greenville and South Carolina to Indianapolis, which would have helped "protect" the top four seed, in this case.

Just eyeballing it, I think Arizona and Gonzaga to Salt Lake City might have been the farthest a top four-seed had to travel.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:11 am

mister d wrote:Flipside is Nigel Hayes is as likeable as they get.

I have nothing against the players on this year's team. In addition to Hayes, I have a lot of respect for Koenig, as he's been involved with Standing Rock activism. I just don't enjoy their style of play at all. All Florida should need to do to beat them is to put their best perimeter defender on Koenig and tell him not to help off Koenig to double the post. (Villanova inexplicably left Koenig wide open on the ball side of the court for a critical 3 late.) Koenig hitting 3s (both off the dribble and off the catch) is a big part of their offense, especially late, that a smart and athletic team should be able to neutralize.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:20 am

DSafetyGuy wrote:At the same time, they will still stay close to their 1-68 ranking of all tournament teams whenever possible instead of shipping teams away from a close arena. For example, tomorrow #2 seed Duke will play in Greenville, SC, which is 240 miles away, but the closest location. However, they will be playing #7 seed South Carolina, which is 100 miles away from Greenville. Committee could have very easily sent Dayton or Michigan to Greenville and South Carolina to Indianapolis, which would have helped "protect" the top four seed, in this case.

Duke losing early because they can't play their early round games in North Carolina due to the discriminatory "bathroom bill" -- and instead got stuck with a de facto road game -- would be a very interesting wrinkle to the NCAA ban on tournament events in North Carolina.

EnochRoot · Post by **EnochRoot** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:25 am

DSafetyGuy wrote:
EnochRoot wrote:How or why does a 4 seed get a cushy landing spot approx 100 miles south, in-state
A handful of years ago, the tournament went to the "pod" system. Instead of having the eight teams from one half of a region all play the same day in the same arena, they switched to having two four-team groups (seeds 1-16 and 8-9, 5-12 and 4-13, 3-14 and 6-11, or 7-10 and 2-15) with no consideration given to the region. They then tried to limit travel when possible for the teams with a 4-seed or better to "protect" those seeds (a thinly veiled effort to help the major conference/big name schools, who generally hold the top 16 seeds in the tournament -- Gonzaga and two Big East schools - Villanova and Butler - are the non-Power 5 teams this year).

At the same time, they will still stay close to their 1-68 ranking of all tournament teams whenever possible instead of shipping teams away from a close arena. For example, tomorrow #2 seed Duke will play in Greenville, SC, which is 240 miles away, but the closest location. However, they will be playing #7 seed South Carolina, which is 100 miles away from Greenville. Committee could have very easily sent Dayton or Michigan to Greenville and South Carolina to Indianapolis, which would have helped "protect" the top four seed, in this case.

Just eyeballing it, I think Arizona and Gonzaga to Salt Lake City might have been the farthest a top four-seed had to travel.

Ah...Thanks. Sounds like this "issue" will get pushed to the back-burner as the pitchforks are going to come out re: how teams are seeded.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:36 pm

The ACC rules.

Post by **Shirley** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:56 pm

Joe K wrote:The ACC rules.

Yeah, now's the time to come after "the greatest conference ever." Not a good weekend.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:07 pm

Shirley wrote:
Joe K wrote:The ACC rules.
Yeah, now's the time to come after "the greatest conference ever." Not a good weekend.

I think there's a pretty good chance of a UNC-Duke final so I'm going to enjoy the schadenfreude now.

ETA: Also, Beilein is one of my favorite coaches so I enjoyed seeing him beat the Quicky Ricky.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:35 pm

Folks who were looking in on the regular season thread saw my gushing about how well this MI team has played the last 3 weeks. Beating Louisville today was pretty surreal. Especially after the really shitty end to the first half. Then, you look up and it's tied at 51 about midway through the second half. And Mo Wagner just... I've seen flashes the last couple of weeks, but he was unreal today.

And, just a quick little FUCK OFF to Rick Pitino. His post game interview, where he throw off a mumbled half sentence of credit to MI and then spent a solid 4 minutes explaining that L'ville beat themselves today. Classless dildonose.

Kenny and Wally pretty much shut that down after the interview, essentially saying "Yeah, you can coach them/tell them to take away the right hand drive.. But if they are too good/quick to stop... Not much you can do about it."

You got beat, Rick. Your kids played hard, and got beat.

I know I'm not going out on some thinnest of limbs here, but that interview really was pretty amazing in its hubris.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:13 pm

Refs not doing Arkansas any favors down the stretch.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:24 pm

Sounds like the wife of the Wichita State coach got a bit excited.

Gregg Marshall's wife escorted out of arena after Wichita State loss

Someone from the NCAA came and got my name and told me I could no longer tweet about her because “it made her upset.” I guess it didn’t make anyone else upset when she told Malik Monk to get in the weight room or told Isaiah Briscoe to buy some bigger shorts or told Calipari to “shut the f-ck up” or told Roger Ayers he is garbage or any of the other classy things she yelled between F-bombs.

The poor security guard made multiple attempts to calm her down before calling for help and then deciding “we have to be delicate because she is the coach’s wife.”