2017 Masters

[Tom 1860]

Get in Sergio and thanks for the holiday...

[brian]

Judging from his fiancée Sergio was going to win today regardless.

[Tom 1860]

Rich professional sportsman in hot WAG shocker!

[rass]

Judging from his fiancée Sergio was going to win today regardless.

I shouted out loud when I saw her skirt...

[rass]

And congrats Tom.

[A_B]

Gonna be a good finish

Awesome analysis!

(ducks)

Mine was at least right! Shoot low boys, they're riding Shetland ponies.

[Pruitt]

Get in Sergio and thanks for the holiday...

Gotta go to Spain.

[Brontoburglar]

Judging from his fiancée Sergio was going to win today regardless.

I shouted out loud when I saw her skirt...

Everything's smaller in Texas.

[A_B]

Not every Masters champ is an all time great. But every all time great is a masters champ.


Which is not to anoint Sergio as an all time great by any means. Just had a thought. I'm glad he won though. But he isn't an all time great by any measure.

And spare me the ton Morris jazz.

[DaveInSeattle]

I wonder how much Rose was hurt on his tee shot on 15. He clearly tweaked something in his back and didn't seem to play as loose afterwards.

[Giff]

One of my best friends friends is friends with her. The four of them watched some swimming events together in Rio last summer and went to watch Sergio play at his invitation in Austin a few weeks ago.

[degenerasian]

Not every Masters champ is an all time great. But every all time great is a masters champ.


Which is not to anoint Sergio as an all time great by any means. Just had a thought. I'm glad he won though. But he isn't an all time great by any measure.

And spare me the ton Morris jazz.

only exception is Trevino. 6 majors but no Masters.

[A_B]

Not every Masters champ is an all time great. But every all time great is a masters champ.


Which is not to anoint Sergio as an all time great by any means. Just had a thought. I'm glad he won though. But he isn't an all time great by any measure.

And spare me the ton Morris jazz.

only exception is Trevino. 6 majors but no Masters.

And really on the edge of being an all-time great, if you ask me.

[Rex]

Bobby Jones did have a green jacket I guess

[Tom 1860]

Not every Masters champ is an all time great. But every all time great is a masters champ.


Which is not to anoint Sergio as an all time great by any means. Just had a thought. I'm glad he won though. But he isn't an all time great by any measure.

And spare me the ton Morris jazz.

only exception is Trevino. 6 majors but no Masters.

Is Trevino an all time great?

Who are the top 10 since 1970?

[A_B]

Bobby Jones did have a green jacket I guess

Yeah, I'll give him a pass for starting the Masters.

[DaveInSeattle]

Not every Masters champ is an all time great. But every all time great is a masters champ.


Which is not to anoint Sergio as an all time great by any means. Just had a thought. I'm glad he won though. But he isn't an all time great by any measure.

And spare me the ton Morris jazz.

only exception is Trevino. 6 majors but no Masters.

Trevino HATED the people who ran Augusta National, and skipped it 3 times ('70, '71, and '74) when he was one of the best players in the world.

If I remember correctly, he hated the place so much that we would change his shoes in the parking lot, rather then go in the clubhouse.

[Sabo]

Is Trevino an all time great?

Who are the top 10 since 1970?

Interesting question.

Off the top of my head (and in no particular order):

Jack Nicklaus
Arnold Palmer
Tom Watson
Tiger Woods
Seve Ballesteros
Nick Faldo
FIGJAM
Greg Norman
Nick Price
Ernie Els

[degenerasian]

Not every Masters champ is an all time great. But every all time great is a masters champ.


Which is not to anoint Sergio as an all time great by any means. Just had a thought. I'm glad he won though. But he isn't an all time great by any measure.

And spare me the ton Morris jazz.

only exception is Trevino. 6 majors but no Masters.

Is Trevino an all time great?

Who are the top 10 since 1970?

i think he would have to be top 10.

If we use Palmer at the beginning of the 70s (won his last major in 1970)

top 10 in no particular order
Palmer
Nicklaus
Player
Woods
Mickelson
Watson
Trevino
Faldo
Norman

Trevino and Norman didn't win the Masters. Would you bump them for someone who did? McIlroy?

[A_B]

If we're talking since 1970, I think you'd have to switch out Arnie (one major, in 1970) with Gary Player (4 in the decade).

I think Nicklaus, Watson, Woods, Seve, and Player would be my locks. Phil next step down, with Ernie Els. I'd put Vijay in over Nick Price - he had a long stretch where he won a LOT of tournaments, even if he only ended up with 3 majors.

Norman and Faldo probably deserve it, but Faldo really wasn't great outside of 6 Majors, which is obviously a weird thing to say. Trevino probably does deserve a spot too. So I'd likely bump Vijay out for him.

Nicklaus
Watson
Woods
Seve
Gary Player
FIGJAM
Els
Norman
Faldo
Trevino

But that doesn't mean Trevino's an all time great. But he's fairly close, and is helped by being so good on the senior tour, too.

[A_B]

Trevino and Norman didn't win the Masters. Would you bump them for someone who did? McIlroy?

Well, Mcilroy hasn't won the Masters either.

[Nonlinear FC]

I think Trevino hovers right around the line around top 15 of all time. I think he wins the Masters if he deemed to play it.* And I've always loved him for his willingness to call them on their bullshit. I know he kind of walked that back a bit later on, but when he made the statement that if not getting invited as a golfer, the only way he'd get into the clubhouse was through the kitchen... It had real meaning.

Anyways, while we're talking about VERY rough story line parallels, Trevino became the foil to Nicklaus during the height of both their powers. Whereas Sergio never really wanted that role, and his temperament SUCKED in this regard... Trevino reveled in being the burr under Jack's saddle. And those two played some of the most memorable rounds of golf in history.

So, from a numbers standpoint, you can see he's not top 10 in majors or in tour wins. But in terms of who he went up against, and what he was to the sport.. I think he comes in top 15.

* - Play it more during the peak of his career. That said, I'm pretty sure one of the stated reasons for not liking Augusta was he didn't like how the course set up.

[Tom 1860]

I may be out of my element here (although not quite as badly as Donny), but comparing wins (and major wins) in different generations is difficult to do right?.

If we take technology out of of the equation and just ask was there more talent around while Jack Nicklaus was winning, as opposed to Tiger and currently Rory, Spieth & Dustin Johnson?

Or

When was it harder to win majors due to the competition?

Where does Bernhard Langer stand? He only won two majors, but he won a shit load of PGA and European tour events. He also turned pro half way through Nicklaus' peak (which was a pretty long peak), so does that make a difference. Does the fact that he has the 2nd most Ryder cup points in history (24.5 points and 0.5 points behind Faldo who played 4 more matches) count for anything?

[govmentchedda]

You completely skipped his career apex.

[Tom 1860]

You completely skipped his career apex.

Who now?

[govmentchedda]

Langer's election work has been much more influential than anything he ever did on a course.

[brian]

Does the fact that he has the 2nd most Ryder cup points in history (24.5 points and 0.5 points behind Faldo who played 4 more matches) count for anything?

It means literally almost nothing. The Ryder Cup is an exhibition. Albeit, a very entertaining one.

[Tom 1860]

Does the fact that he has the 2nd most Ryder cup points in history (24.5 points and 0.5 points behind Faldo who played 4 more matches) count for anything?

It means literally almost nothing. The Ryder Cup is an exhibition. Albeit, a very entertaining one.

It is interesting that you see it as an exhibition, yet over here, it is really important. Langer is hugely respected in Europe and considering he has the whole German thing going on, that respect is well earned.

[brian]

I think it's hard to judge the performance of a player in matchplay in an event that happens only every two years without any kind of context as to whom they played. Doesn't mean his record isn't impressive, but I don't think 24 points (or whatever it is) in Ryder Cup player is any more impressive than a single major TOUR win (like say the Players or TOUR Championship).

[Tom 1860]

I think the Ryder cup became much more serious when it changed from Britain to Europe in the late 70's and TV audiences became larger and more aware.

[Pruitt]

Anyways, while we're talking about VERY rough story line parallels, Trevino became the foil to Nicklaus during the height of both their powers. Whereas Sergio never really wanted that role, and his temperament SUCKED in this regard... Trevino reveled in being the burr under Jack's saddle. And those two played some of the most memorable rounds of golf in history.

Back in the day (at least way back when I started to watch) it was Nicklaus and everyone else. Trevino, Miller, Weiskopf, Crenshaw, Floyd, whoever. Maybe not as severe as it was during Tiger's run, but Nicklaus WAS golf for a long, long time.

[Nonlinear FC]

Anyways, while we're talking about VERY rough story line parallels, Trevino became the foil to Nicklaus during the height of both their powers. Whereas Sergio never really wanted that role, and his temperament SUCKED in this regard... Trevino reveled in being the burr under Jack's saddle. And those two played some of the most memorable rounds of golf in history.

Back in the day (at least way back when I started to watch) it was Nicklaus and everyone else. Trevino, Miller, Weiskopf, Crenshaw, Floyd, whoever. Maybe not as severe as it was during Tiger's run, but Nicklaus WAS golf for a long, long time.

Yeah, there was really a small group of guys that consistently could challenge Nicklaus... Player, Palmer, Trevino... Watson? You named a few others that came on later.

But those three/four guys had the most memorable tussles, I think. I was just focused on why Trevino rises up the ranks, maybe beyond his actual numbers might indicate.

[Pruitt]

Guy Finds Augusta Green Jacket In Toronto Goodwill

Bought for $5 (Canadian!) in 1994.

Just sold for $140,000 (American!)

I used to live two doors away from Canada's pre-eminent golf writer... wonder if he's the "unnamed sports journalist?"

[sancarlos]

* - Play it more during the peak of his career. That said, I'm pretty sure one of the stated reasons for not liking Augusta was he didn't like how the course set up.

With no evidence, I'm going to guess it also had something to do with Augusta being run by tight-ass country club racists who didn't eagerly welcome a Mexican-American who grew up hustling the public courses of El Paso.

[Nonlinear FC]

* - Play it more during the peak of his career. That said, I'm pretty sure one of the stated reasons for not liking Augusta was he didn't like how the course set up.

With no evidence, I'm going to guess it also had something to do with Augusta being run by tight-ass country club racists who didn't eagerly welcome a Mexican-American who grew up hustling the public courses of El Paso.

You did see the sentences right after the asterisk, right?

[wlu_lax6]

Billy Payne retires. Fred Ridley, a former USGA president and U.S. Amateur champion who heads the Masters competition committee will be taking over. Payne joined Augusta in 1997.