MLB - August 2013 Thread

[A_B]

I think we're gonna need a new thread.

[brian]

The AL Central is bonkers right now. Between the Tigers, Indians and Royals, they've gone 33-3 in their last 36 combined games. Though the Tigers and Indians start a four-game series tonight.

[Gunpowder]

I'd say it's the second-best Central division in all of MLB.

(That is a crazy streak though. And I need the Tigers to win tonight as part of my parlay)

[Gunpowder]

And, of course, I completely forgot that Cabrera is out. Whatevs. ROAR

[brian]

And, of course, I completely forgot that Cabrera is out. Whatevs. ROAR

Word is he's supposed to play tonight unless that pinch-hitting stint yesterday inflamed his abdomen.

[Brontoburglar]

The AL Central is bonkers right now. Between the Tigers, Indians and Royals, they've gone 33-3 in their last 36 combined games. Though the Tigers and Indians start a four-game series tonight.

It's so Royals to go 10-1 and gain a half game in the division race.

[brian]

They're putting themselves in play for a wildcard at least. If they can stay relatively hot no reason they can't get there. I'm still not convinced the Indians aren't going to "collapse" back closer to .500 when it is all said and done.

[Brontoburglar]

They're putting themselves in play for a wildcard at least. If they can stay relatively hot no reason they can't get there. I'm still not convinced the Indians aren't going to "collapse" back closer to .500 when it is all said and done.

They're basically right at their pythag right now. I consider this the progression from the 19 game losing streak. I bet they win 84 games this year.

[brian]

They're putting themselves in play for a wildcard at least. If they can stay relatively hot no reason they can't get there. I'm still not convinced the Indians aren't going to "collapse" back closer to .500 when it is all said and done.

They're basically right at their pythag right now. I consider this the progression from the 19 game losing streak. I bet they win 84 games this year.

Yeah, I wouldn't bet on them getting to the 90 or so wins they'd need to have a chance at a playoff spot (either division or WC), but they're making it interesting at least.

[Gunpowder]

Texas or Tampa would have to collapse along with the Royals continuing to win at a big clip. I don't see it but it would be cool to force them to stick with Ned Yost for a few more seasons.

[A_B]

Texas or Tampa would have to collapse along with the Royals continuing to win at a big clip. I don't see it but it would be cool to force them to stick with Ned Yost for a few more seasons.

When Cruz goes down, Texas's spot may be there for the taking.

[Gunpowder]

Texas or Tampa would have to collapse along with the Royals continuing to win at a big clip. I don't see it but it would be cool to force them to stick with Ned Yost for a few more seasons.

When Cruz goes down, Texas's spot may be there for the taking.

He'll hurt, but I don't think him being gone will kill their playoff chances by itself.

[brian]

So I've honestly not been following all of this A-Rod suspension nonsense beyond the headlines, but what options do the Yankees have if he is suspended for 200+ games (through 2014)? Do they release him and litigate his contract guarantees? Hope he comes back in 2015 and still has gas in the tank?

[A_B]

I think the most significant fallout from this is going to be how MLB and the MLBPA agree to handle the contracts, specifically Braun and ARod. A pretty damning argument against the players can be made that they got this money through ill-gotten channels - that had they not taken PEDs, they would not have merited (for lack of a better word) these contracts in the first place. That said, the caveat emptor will most likely apply and the teams will be screwed.

I don't think the MLBPA will let them release him and litigate without a significant fight, considering that they are due to lose what the CBA already specified - the money they would have earned during a suspension. A hey, we agreed they wouldn't get paid while on suspension, but when they get back, that contract is in force.

I can't imagine any self-respecting union will let that go without fighting as hard as possible.

[Gunpowder]

So I've honestly not been following all of this A-Rod suspension nonsense beyond the headlines, but what options do the Yankees have if he is suspended for 200+ games (through 2014)? Do they release him and litigate his contract guarantees? Hope he comes back in 2015 and still has gas in the tank?

I think he comes back and gets all of his money from 2015-on.

What I want to know is, why? Why does a 50-game suspension turn into 200 games because one's a dick? He tried to buy documents? Yeah, well, Melky Cabrera tried to MAKE A MOTHERF-ING FAKE WEBSITE TO PIN HIS FAILED TEST ON. Does he get the death penalty? Does Selig for real execute him by shotgun live on MLB.tv from the Skydome? (I'll be tarred and feathered with horsecum before I refer to it as Rogers Center). Oh, no - since MLB doesn't hate him, he gets off on time served.

Why are the same people who lambaste Goodell's uneven punishments commending this shizz?

[A_B]

So I've honestly not been following all of this A-Rod suspension nonsense beyond the headlines, but what options do the Yankees have if he is suspended for 200+ games (through 2014)? Do they release him and litigate his contract guarantees? Hope he comes back in 2015 and still has gas in the tank?

I think he comes back and gets all of his money from 2015-on.

What I want to know is, why? Why does a 50-game suspension turn into 200 games because one's a dick? He tried to buy documents? Yeah, well, Melky Cabrera tried to MAKE A MOTHERF-ING FAKE WEBSITE TO PIN HIS FAILED TEST ON. Does he get the death penalty? Does Selig for real execute him by shotgun live on MLB.tv from the Skydome? (I'll be tarred and feathered with horsecum before I refer to it as Rogers Center). Oh, no - since MLB doesn't hate him, he gets off on time served.

Why are the same people who lambaste Goodell's uneven punishments commending this shizz?

One part of the ARod sitch being a different animal is that he has admitted to PEDs in the past, still didn't learn, has been doing it for a long documented period. The biggest part, though is that he recruited others to use the Biogenisis place.

[Gunpowder]

It shouldn't matter if he admitted to doing them in the past.

The recruiting part, we'll find out more about that during the appeal I'm sure.

[DC47]

I don't think MLB will go to the wall for an ARod suspension beyond a full season, given the relatively light load they imposed on Braun and Cabrera. The cases aren't the same, but in both the players didn't simply accept the MLB penalty and in both the players went to remarkable lengths to lie when they were caught. Both lies cost MLB quite a bit in terms of reputation by extending the media coverage of their cases.

Mysteries to me:

- Why don't athletes get PEDs anonymously? Is it all that hard?

- Why would ARod compound his already high risk by recruiting others to use Biogenesis?

- Did MLB really say nothing to teams or players before today about who they were going to suspend?

- Why didn't the Giants take Melky Cabrera back after he served his suspension? He was perhaps their best hitter, and they were on their way to the play-offs. Did MLB influence this decision?

[A_B]

I don't think MLB will go to the wall for an ARod suspension beyond a full season, given the relatively light load they imposed on Braun and Cabrera. The cases aren't the same, but in both the players didn't simply accept the MLB penalty and in both the players went to remarkable lengths to lie when they were caught. Both lies cost MLB quite a bit in terms of reputation by extending the media coverage of their cases.

Mysteries to me:

- Why don't athletes get PEDs anonymously? Is it all that hard?

- Why would ARod compound his already high risk by recruiting others to use Biogenesis?

- Did MLB really say nothing to teams or players before today about who they were going to suspend?

- Why didn't the Giants take Melky Cabrera back after he served his suspension? He was perhaps their best hitter, and they were on their way to the play-offs. Did MLB influence this decision?

1 - Apparently so. And the people who give them to you, if they get heat, have no incentive to not flip on you. Unless you're Barry Bonds.

2 - He's an idiot of the first degree. A narcissist who thought he was too big to fail.

3 - I think most people knew who was getting suspended. Cruz said yesterday he knew a decision was due today. they've been negotiating, back to agreeing not to appeal.

4 - Hard to bring a guy back in who might disrupt your chemistry for a playoff run. It seemed to work out OK for them, despite the luck of the draw of having to play the unbeatable Tigers. (Sorry, couldn't resist!)

[Gunpowder]

- Why don't athletes get PEDs anonymously? Is it all that hard?

They have to be cutting edge PEDs that will slip by drug tests. I obtained steroids quite easily - BUT - I would have been caught first drug test. That's why they go to BALCO's and Biogenesises and the like. Probably didn't assume Biogenesis would have these detailed records on file.

- Why would ARod compound his already high risk by recruiting others to use Biogenesis?

AB already gave the correct answer that: "he's A-Rod"

- Did MLB really say nothing to teams or players before today about who they were going to suspend?

Pretty sure this was all pretty well known in advance.

- Why didn't the Giants take Melky Cabrera back after he served his suspension? He was perhaps their best hitter, and they were on their way to the play-offs. Did MLB influence this decision?

He disappeared immediately after the suspension, which rubbed everybody in the organization the wrong way.

[DC47]

1 - Apparently so. And the people who give them to you, if they get heat, have no incentive to not flip on you. Unless you're Barry Bonds.

Is it reasonable to assume that Bonds paid Conte quite a bit to remain silent?

2 - He's an idiot of the first degree. A narcissist who thought he was too big to fail.

If so, this is truly amazing. After all he's been through, he's not in the least paranoid?

3 - I think most people knew who was getting suspended. Cruz said yesterday he knew a decision was due today. they've been negotiating, back to agreeing not to appeal.

Baseball GMs have directly stated that they knew nothing. For example, the Tigers' Dombrowski traded for Iglesias while knowing nothing about Peralta's likely status. Lying?

4 - Hard to bring a guy back in who might disrupt your chemistry for a playoff run. It seemed to work out OK for them, despite the luck of the draw of having to play the unbeatable Tigers. (Sorry, couldn't resist!)

I really doubt there is so much chemistry in a baseball clubhouse that a guy who hits .350 with power does not add more on the field than he subtracts by being there. If the Tigers don't bring Peralta back for the post-season, I'll be surprised. Even if he is on their bench, as they now have a replacement who may be nearly as good. The Giants decision was a mystery to me. Could they have been gun-shy over the market perception that they were a haven for cheaters because Cabrera was preceded by Bonds?

I was thrilled with the Tigers' season despite their World Series loss. Maybe I'm getting soft in my old age. Also, I lived in the Bay area in the 70s and 80s and the Giants are my second favorite team. It was a no-lose series for me.

[DC47]

They have to be cutting edge PEDs that will slip by drug tests. I obtained steroids quite easily - BUT - I would have been caught first drug test. That's why they go to BALCO's and Biogenesises and the like. Probably didn't assume Biogenesis would have these detailed records on file.

Why take the chance? Do they pose for pictures with hookers and give them a home phone number?

- Why would ARod compound his already high risk by recruiting others to use Biogenesis?

AB already gave the correct answer that: "he's A-Rod"

Has he no one around him to protect him from things like this?

- Why didn't the Giants take Melky Cabrera back after he served his suspension? He was perhaps their best hitter, and they were on their way to the play-offs. Did MLB influence this decision?

He disappeared immediately after the suspension, which rubbed everybody in the organization the wrong way.

I missed this. Did they really want the suspended, disgraced player hanging around for two months? I would assume that "disappeared" is exactly what all parties wanted. Didn't he do enough to regain some element of grace by declining the batting championship, saving the Commissioner from a tough situation and creating a positive PR moment? I think that if Barry Bonds had expressed remorse and asked the commissioner to strike his home run record from the books, he would be perceived pretty well in SF right now.

[A_B]

I'd be suprised if peralta makes a plyoff roster after being out for two months, no?

I could be wrong.

[DC47]

Last week I took a bet on whether the Pirates would win the Central -- I'm on the yes side. Ice, what do you think?

Also, did their inactivity at the deadline piss off fans?

[brian]

I'd be suprised if peralta makes a plyoff roster after being out for two months, no?

I could be wrong.

It's too soon to speculate. Lots of variables. How well Iglesias performs at SS for the next two months, their injury situation, etc. It's certainly not impossible though. I'd agree it's unlikely though.

[DC47]

I'd be suprised if peralta makes a plyoff roster after being out for two months, no?

I could be wrong.

I'd much rather have Peralta than Ramon Santiago on my bench, even if he is coming off only a few games at the end of the season. Presumably he'd be in great shape, and he can train (e.g., hit live pitching) privately as much as he wants for the next 50 days.

But perhaps the gap is not so great in Leyland's mind. He's a big Santiago fan. Will the performance gap for a bench player be big enough to off-set the marketing cost in being further linked to a PEDs name?

[brian]

I'd be suprised if peralta makes a plyoff roster after being out for two months, no?

I could be wrong.

I'd much rather have Peralta than Ramon Santiago on my bench, even if he is coming off only a few games at the end of the season. Presumably he'd be in great shape, and he can train (e.g., hit live pitching) privately as much as he wants for the next 50 days.

But perhaps the gap is not so great in Leyland's mind. He's a big Santiago fan. Will the performance gap for a bench player be big enough to off-set the marketing cost in being further linked to a PEDs name?

Yeah, theoretically Peralta could be activated for the Tigers final three games, all against Miami (of all teams ironically enough). As long as the Tigers have a playoff spot locked up, he could get pretty close to back into game shape.

[Gunpowder]

I missed this. Did they really want the suspended, disgraced player hanging around for two months? I would assume that "disappeared" is exactly what all parties wanted. Didn't he do enough to regain some element of grace by declining the batting championship, saving the Commissioner from a tough situation and creating a positive PR moment? I think that if Barry Bonds had expressed remorse and asked the commissioner to strike his home run record from the books, he would be perceived pretty well in SF right now.

He was suspended and they didn't see him again, not even like right after the word came down. Didn't say a word to anybody.

[Gunpowder]

Last week I took a bet on whether the Pirates would win the Central -- I'm on the yes side. Ice, what do you think?

Also, did their inactivity at the deadline piss off fans?

Cardinals are pretty damn good so I still am thinking they'll probably end up with the WC spot. But I sure hope they win the division.

And no, there was nothing to buy. The farm is too good to give it up for Alex Rios.

[DC47]

Last week I took a bet on whether the Pirates would win the Central -- I'm on the yes side. Ice, what do you think?

Also, did their inactivity at the deadline piss off fans?

Cardinals are pretty damn good so I still am thinking they'll probably end up with the WC spot. But I sure hope they win the division.

And no, there was nothing to buy. The farm is too good to give it up for Alex Rios.

From what I saw, the prices weren't astronomical on decent players. But it's a fact that Rios didn't move, so perhaps his price was too high.

Still, Pirates' fans must be very sharp to not be furious over the lack of moves. For example, the price for Jose Veras wasn't that high, and the Pirates have lost Grilli for an undetermined time.

[Gunpowder]

Last week I took a bet on whether the Pirates would win the Central -- I'm on the yes side. Ice, what do you think?

Also, did their inactivity at the deadline piss off fans?

Cardinals are pretty damn good so I still am thinking they'll probably end up with the WC spot. But I sure hope they win the division.

And no, there was nothing to buy. The farm is too good to give it up for Alex Rios.

From what I saw, the prices weren't astronomical on decent players. But it's a fact that Rios didn't move, so perhaps his price was too high.

Still, Pirates' fans must be very sharp to not be furious over the lack of moves. For example, the price for Jose Veras wasn't that high, and the Pirates have lost Grilli for an undetermined time.

The Pirates have more than Grilli in their pen. Rios isn't that great and the White Sox supposedly wanted a guy named Tyler Glasnow for him, which is way too much to pay for an average, expensive, aging right fielder.

Veras would help but, Grilli was the Buccos' second best reliever. They'll survive his few weeks being out (although more arms is never a bad thing).

[Gunpowder]

The prices for just about everybody were high, and that's why maybe three significant moves were made.

[brian]

Cabrera back in the lineup for the Tigers, thank Jeebus. This also means the left side of the Tigers infield is now Miggy and Iggy.

[DC47]

From what I saw, the prices weren't astronomical on decent players. But it's a fact that Rios didn't move, so perhaps his price was too high.

Still, Pirates' fans must be very sharp to not be furious over the lack of moves. For example, the price for Jose Veras wasn't that high, and the Pirates have lost Grilli for an undetermined time.

The Pirates have more than Grilli in their pen. Rios isn't that great and the White Sox supposedly wanted a guy named Tyler Glasnow for him, which is way too much to pay for an average, expensive, aging right fielder.

Veras would help but, Grilli was the Buccos' second best reliever. They'll survive his few weeks being out (although more arms is never a bad thing).

Not many veteran arms to start with, and a pen that is more important than usual because they throw a lot of innings. Is it clear that Grilli will come right back from his injury? Second best is pretty important for most teams, and many would say he's their best.

The Tigers gave up a single-A outfielder who isn't remotely a top 100 prospect for Veras. They get him on a cheap deal with an under-value option for next year. That strikes me as an attractive deal for many contenders this time of year.

[DC47]

Cabrera back in the lineup for the Tigers, thank Jeebus. This also means the left side of the Tigers infield is now Miggy and Iggy.

I hear they're signing Chone Figgins to a minor league deal.

[Gunpowder]

From what I saw, the prices weren't astronomical on decent players. But it's a fact that Rios didn't move, so perhaps his price was too high.

Still, Pirates' fans must be very sharp to not be furious over the lack of moves. For example, the price for Jose Veras wasn't that high, and the Pirates have lost Grilli for an undetermined time.

The Pirates have more than Grilli in their pen. Rios isn't that great and the White Sox supposedly wanted a guy named Tyler Glasnow for him, which is way too much to pay for an average, expensive, aging right fielder.

Veras would help but, Grilli was the Buccos' second best reliever. They'll survive his few weeks being out (although more arms is never a bad thing).

Not many veteran arms to start with, and a pen that is more important than usual because they throw a lot of innings. Is it clear that Grilli will come right back from his injury? Second best is pretty important for most teams, and many would say he's their best.

The Tigers gave up a single-A outfielder who isn't remotely a top 100 prospect for Veras. They get him on a cheap deal with an under-value option for next year. That strikes me as an attractive deal for many contenders this time of year.

Many would be wrong because they just look at saves. Melancon has been absolutely ridiculous. Grilli was slipping up a few weeks before his injury (I'd certainly bet that the two are related). If you use ERA (I know it's flawed but it's easy), Veras would slide in as their 5th best reliever, NOT counting Grilli. Instead, they promoted their AAA closer. He's struggled, but he's also thrown fastball after fastball in mop-up situations.

Yes, sure, he would have been nice, but no one in Pittsburgh is freaking out because the Tigers snatched up Jose Veras from under their nose. Grilli may be back in September, who knows how good he'll be - but they'll survive.

[DC47]

Veras was just an example of a reasonably-priced addition in a spot where it could be reasonably be said that Pittsburgh needed help. Your points on the status of the pen are very reasonable as well. I like that group of relievers more than those fo the Tigers, for example. Even with Grilli as an unknown for the rest of the season.

If Pirates fans are not irate, I'm impressed with their patience and perspective. With a team doing so well, after such a long dry spell, I'd think they'd be going nuts over the GM standing pat. Proclaiming him to be too cheap, in love with his prospects, and failing to grasp the unique chance this season offers. To start with.

[A_B]

Dance with the one what brought you.

[DSafetyGuy]

3 - I think most people knew who was getting suspended. Cruz said yesterday he knew a decision was due today. they've been negotiating, back to agreeing not to appeal.

Baseball GMs have directly stated that they knew nothing. For example, the Tigers' Dombrowski traded for Iglesias while knowing nothing about Peralta's likely status. Lying?

There is an easy way for Dombrowski to explain the deal for Iglesias, even if Peralta was not going to be suspended, at least enough to give him plausible deniability.

Iglesias steps into the utility infielder role with Ramon Santiago being be cut/sent down/whatever if Peralta isn't suspended. Next season, he replaces either Infante or Peralta, both free agents. Peralta makes $6 million this year and has averaged $5.4 million over the last four while Infante has made $4 mill each of the last two. Replacing either of those numbers with Iglesias' controlled salary frees up some cash for an offseason extension for, say, Max Scherzer or Austin Jackson. While most people point at Mike Illitch and his desire to win a World Series before dying as rationale for essentially saying there is no budget, there is still uncertainty as to what happens to the team's payroll when Illitch passes away. This move shaves somewhere around $3-4 million off that, most likely for two years.

[DC47]

All very plausible rationales for dealing for Iglesias. But they could have done a deal for a middle infielder in the off-season.

More to the point, Dombrowski has been quoted as specifically denying that he knew anything about Peralta's status. No information from MLB. Peralta said the same. Seems dubious.