MLB - August 2013 Thread

Okay . . . let's try this again.

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Re: MLB - August 2013 Thread

Post by DSafetyGuy »

DC47 wrote:All very plausible rationales for dealing for Iglesias. But they could have done a deal for a middle infielder in the off-season.

More to the point, Dombrowski has been quoted as specifically denying that he knew anything about Peralta's status. No information from MLB. Peralta said the same. Seems dubious.
Well, they were going to have to make moves for two middle infielders in the off-season. They've definitely seen more than enough of Santiago, Danny Worth, and Hernan Perez to know none of them are going to be everyday guys next season (the first two are viewed as utility guys at best, the latter still has a shot in the future).

I'm not gonna worry about it one way or the other. The next player, coach/manager, or front office guy in professional sports who is completely honest about everything is going to be the first.

I think most all players who were staring at a suspension made the magnanimous gesture of informing management of what was going on, at least through their agents. It is also very likely that MLB sent out a memo to all teams informing them of what was going on, if any of their players were likely to be suspended (including by name), and threatening an obscenely huge fine if the info got leaked (say, $5 million or more). Contrary to the opinion of most, it is possible to keep things out of the media these days. Also, if Dombrowski acknowledged Peralta was going to be suspended, he would have lost any leverage he had in the trade market.

In any case, the important thing is that the Tigers wiped out a 2-0 hole tonight with four in the ninth off Chris Perez, the last three off a bomb by Alex Avila (who, if he's not careful, may get over .200 on the season). That ending could be a tough one for the Indians to overcome.
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Re: MLB - August 2013 Thread

Post by Brontoburglar »

Well, that helps the Pythag
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Re: MLB - August 2013 Thread

Post by Gunpowder »

DC47 wrote:Veras was just an example of a reasonably-priced addition in a spot where it could be reasonably be said that Pittsburgh needed help. Your points on the status of the pen are very reasonable as well. I like that group of relievers more than those fo the Tigers, for example. Even with Grilli as an unknown for the rest of the season.

If Pirates fans are not irate, I'm impressed with their patience and perspective. With a team doing so well, after such a long dry spell, I'd think they'd be going nuts over the GM standing pat. Proclaiming him to be too cheap, in love with his prospects, and failing to grasp the unique chance this season offers. To start with.

It's not hard to realize that Alex Rios is not very good.

The Pirates bullpen ERA is third in MLB. The Tigers is 22nd (without adjusting for the super awesome AL). I'd hope you'd take the Pirates' strength over the Tigers' weakness.
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Re: MLB - August 2013 Thread

Post by DC47 »

Alex Rios is something like a bit above league average for a corner outfielder this year. But was even better last year, and could be again. Even league average is something that would improve many contending teams quite a bit. Wouldn't Rios be a significant upgrade over Travis Snyder, Garret Jones, and Jose Tabata? I presume most Pittsburgh fans grasp this, so I'm surprised if they are content that the team didn't make a move. Of course Rios is over-paid. But it makes good sense for contenders to pay up to get what they need. There are only rarely bargains at the trade deadline.

I'm ignorant of bullpen ERAs, so I didn't know there was such a big gap between the Pirates and Tigers so far this year. But that's history. Bullpens don't project well; so the best projection is for both teams to revert to the mean thus closing the gap.

I suspect that the gap to date will look smaller if you adjust for the greater challenge of pitching in the AL. Looking forward, the gap projects as smaller due to Detroit dropping bad pitchers (e.g., Valverde, Downs) and adding a good pitcher in Jose Veras. They've also got Albuquerque back, with Dotel soon to return. In contrast, Pittsburgh has lost Grilli for an undetermined time. Bullpen ERAs aren't weighted by impact of innings pitched. The Tigers' two key guys who pitch high-impact innings -- Benoit and Smyly -- both have ERAs under 2.00, and Veras is off to a good start. In the post-season, Porcello moves to the pen, where he was good last year. Mix well, and I think that the current bullpens project -- for what this is worth -- as pretty close for the balance of the year.
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Re: MLB - August 2013 Thread

Post by A_B »

Brontoburglar wrote:Well, that helps the Pythag
Now they score 13. Jerks. Royal jerks.
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Re: MLB - August 2013 Thread

Post by Gunpowder »

DC47 wrote:Alex Rios is something like a bit above league average for a corner outfielder this year. But was even better last year, and could be again. Even league average is something that would improve many contending teams quite a bit. Wouldn't Rios be a significant upgrade over Travis Snyder, Garret Jones, and Jose Tabata? I presume most Pittsburgh fans grasp this, so I'm surprised if they are content that the team didn't make a move. Of course Rios is over-paid. But it makes good sense for contenders to pay up to get what they need. There are only rarely bargains at the trade deadline.


No. He would not be a significant upgrade over Tabata (if an uprade at all), his good year last year seems like an anomaly, and he's 32 and owed $14.5 million per over the next year or two. And they wanted a very good pitching prospect. Garrett Jones has sucked and Snider hasn't really played in months, so he's just not even worth mention. It does not make any sense. Please stop this. You are not going to convince me that they should have given up anything at all for Rios. This was my status on Facebook the day OF the trade deadline:
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Please don't give up anything of actual value for some reach like Rios, Bucs.
I wanted nothing to do with him. Or just about any of the names bandied about this year. I'm glad that the Bucs didn't panic just to please a few idiot fans that think you have to pick up some other teams overpaid scraps to make the playoffs.

I'm ignorant of bullpen ERAs, so I didn't know there was such a big gap between the Pirates and Tigers so far this year. But that's history. Bullpens don't project well; so the best projection is for both teams to revert to the mean thus closing the gap.

I suspect that the gap to date will look smaller if you adjust for the greater challenge of pitching in the AL. Looking forward, the gap projects as smaller due to Detroit dropping bad pitchers (e.g., Valverde, Downs) and adding a good pitcher in Jose Veras. They've also got Albuquerque back, with Dotel soon to return. In contrast, Pittsburgh has lost Grilli for an undetermined time. Bullpen ERAs aren't weighted by impact of innings pitched. The Tigers' two key guys who pitch high-impact innings -- Benoit and Smyly -- both have ERAs under 2.00, and Veras is off to a good start. In the post-season, Porcello moves to the pen, where he was good last year. Mix well, and I think that the current bullpens project -- for what this is worth -- as pretty close for the balance of the year.
The guy who has thrown the most relief innings for the Pirates has a 0.83 ERA. 0.83! He has like 50 K and 5 walks. He's been insane. The Pirates are where they are right now in large part due to their bullpen, not just because Grilli has a lot of saves.

I get it - Detroit! I know. Why didn't they trade for Rios? Are people in Detroit pissed that Andy Dirks is still going to get meaningful ABs despite being far worse at the plate than Jose Tabata?
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Re: MLB - August 2013 Thread

Post by brian »

FWIW, I don't get the impression that he's either a) ripping on Pittsburgh or b) suggesting the Tigers and/or their bullpen are better, but merely pointing out that it would be understandable if Bucs fans were perturbed about not adding anything at the deadline since this is basically the first time they've been in this position in two decades. Fans aren't always reasonable, especially when you're in somewhat uncharted waters.

I absolutely agree that dealing for Rios wasn't a good move, especially if it would have cost a real prospect.

And he was merely also pointing out that saying that Pittsburgh being 3rd and Detroit being 22nd in bullpen ERA was missing some of the nuances that he mentioned like a LOT of those runs belonging to two guys who are no longer on the team and the almost certainty that Veras should help improve their stats for the last two months. It wouldn't have been unreasonable for the Pirates to make a play for an arm like Veras, especially at the relatively low cost, but it doesn't necessary make the Tigers bullpen better than Pittsburgh's at this point either.

(And I'm OK with Dirks getting most of the ABs in left for the rest of the season. You can't start 9 All-Stars. He's an improvement over Delmon Young still if you factor in defense, etc.)
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Re: MLB - August 2013 Thread

Post by DC47 »

Icepenis wrote:No. He would not be a significant upgrade over Tabata (if an uprade at all), his good year last year seems like an anomaly, and he's 32 and owed $14.5 million per over the next year or two. And they wanted a very good pitching prospect. Garrett Jones has sucked and Snider hasn't really played in months, so he's just not even worth mention. It does not make any sense. Please stop this. You are not going to convince me that they should have given up anything at all for Rios.

I wanted nothing to do with him. Or just about any of the names bandied about this year. I'm glad that the Bucs didn't panic just to please a few idiot fans that think you have to pick up some other teams overpaid scraps to make the playoffs.
I was discussing your statement that Pirates fans didn't care much that the GM didn't make a deadline move. Rios is a plausible one, but just one example. If this is the case, it's a rare situation where fans are patient and trust the GM even after a long dry spell.

I wasn't critiquing your view of Rios. But on that topic, looking at the stats it appears that Snider has been in 95 games, and has an OPS around .600. And if Jones sucks, isn't Rios better? Tabata is better than the others this year, but hasn't played as much. Looks to me that Rios would be a big upgrade for the Pirates. That doesn't mean he's worth the cost in money or prospects.

The guy who has thrown the most relief innings for the Pirates has a 0.83 ERA. 0.83! He has like 50 K and 5 walks. He's been insane. The Pirates are where they are right now in large part due to their bullpen, not just because Grilli has a lot of saves.
Melancon has been great. Better than any Tigers reliever. But he's one guy.
I get it - Detroit! I know. Why didn't they trade for Rios? Are people in Detroit pissed that Andy Dirks is still going to get meaningful ABs despite being far worse at the plate than Jose Tabata?
I think Detroit fans would have been irate if Dombrowski hadn't improved the bullpen and replaced Peralta with someone who is likely to be better than Santiago or Worth. Dirks hasn't been very good. But he's only the LH part of a platoon; the RH part has a .943 OPS. Rios hits RH.

Further, the team scores runs even with Dirks in the lineup. Losing Peralta will hurt their offense. But Avila and Victor Martinez are returning to form, and Infante is returning to the lineup. Fielder will no doubt hit better. Dirks probably will. I don't think Tigers fans are much worried about scoring runs.
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Re: MLB - August 2013 Thread

Post by DC47 »

brian wrote:FWIW, I don't get the impression that he's either a) ripping on Pittsburgh or b) suggesting the Tigers and/or their bullpen are better, but merely pointing out that it would be understandable if Bucs fans were perturbed about not adding anything at the deadline since this is basically the first time they've been in this position in two decades. Fans aren't always reasonable, especially when you're in somewhat uncharted waters.
...
And he was merely also pointing out that saying that Pittsburgh being 3rd and Detroit being 22nd in bullpen ERA was missing some of the nuances that he mentioned like a LOT of those runs belonging to two guys who are no longer on the team and the almost certainty that Veras should help improve their stats for the last two months. It wouldn't have been unreasonable for the Pirates to make a play for an arm like Veras, especially at the relatively low cost, but it doesn't necessary make the Tigers bullpen better than Pittsburgh's at this point either.
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Re: MLB - August 2013 Thread

Post by DC47 »

I love what the Pirates are doing this year. As mentioned earlier, I bet they'll win the division. Their minor league system is producing. Great arms coming up. Finally, an owner and GM who seem to be competent. Looks like a bright future for Pirates fans, whether they win or lose this year.
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Re: MLB - August 2013 Thread

Post by Gunpowder »

brian wrote:FWIW, I don't get the impression that he's either a) ripping on Pittsburgh or b) suggesting the Tigers and/or their bullpen are better, but merely pointing out that it would be understandable if Bucs fans were perturbed about not adding anything at the deadline since this is basically the first time they've been in this position in two decades. Fans aren't always reasonable, especially when you're in somewhat uncharted waters.

I absolutely agree that dealing for Rios wasn't a good move, especially if it would have cost a real prospect.

And he was merely also pointing out that saying that Pittsburgh being 3rd and Detroit being 22nd in bullpen ERA was missing some of the nuances that he mentioned like a LOT of those runs belonging to two guys who are no longer on the team and the almost certainty that Veras should help improve their stats for the last two months. It wouldn't have been unreasonable for the Pirates to make a play for an arm like Veras, especially at the relatively low cost, but it doesn't necessary make the Tigers bullpen better than Pittsburgh's at this point either.

(And I'm OK with Dirks getting most of the ABs in left for the rest of the season. You can't start 9 All-Stars. He's an improvement over Delmon Young still if you factor in defense, etc.)
DC was trying to point that out, about 6 responses ago. I answered the question and explained why, at least among the fans I talk with on the Pirates board and my Buccos Facebook friends. And really, it's the first time they've been in this position since last year and to a lesser degree 2011. During 2011, the Bucs supposedly turned down Hanrahan for Chris Davis as they felt they owed it to the fans to look like they were going for it. Hopefully they learned that lesson and never worried about what the fans would think again.

And then I was pointing out that I could play the same game with the Pirates if I wanted to but, well, I don't have time for it. The bullpen gave up 7 runs to the Cardinals in a mop up situation last week because who cares. And for the like 8th time yes Veras is a good pickup and sure the Pirates could have used him but no one is losing a half second of sleep over it. Good trade, Tigers. I've said that multiple times.

I keep saying this but it's like DC is on a mission to convince me that Pittsburgh should have done more and that Rios is a sizeable upgrade. I feel like someone is trying to explain to me the team that I have been watching for the past 4 months. I had no problems with the first question but now it's starting to grate a little.

And while you can't have all-stars everywhere, Dirks would be the Pirates 5th best outfielder, most likely. So why isn't anybody upset that the Tigers didn't go after Rios? I am not going to be convinced that Rios is a good option at his price.
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Re: MLB - August 2013 Thread

Post by Gunpowder »

I was discussing your statement that Pirates fans didn't care much that the GM didn't make a deadline move. Rios is a plausible one, but just one example. If this is the case, it's a rare situation where fans are patient and trust the GM even after a long dry spell.

I wasn't critiquing your view of Rios. But on that topic, looking at the stats it appears that Snider has been in 95 games, and has an OPS around .600. And if Jones sucks, isn't Rios better? Tabata is better than the others this year, but hasn't played as much. Looks to me that Rios would be a big upgrade for the Pirates. That doesn't mean he's worth the cost in money or prospects.

Snider played all of those games at the beginning of the season. Tabata was hurt, came back and now he's basically the everyday starter in RF. He's also 23 and owed like $9 mil over the next 5 years. He'll get better, hopefully. Rios will be lucky to not get worse. Snider has been out of the picture since early June, I'd say. This was the worst trade deadline that I can think of in recent years. There were decent-to-bad options to go after and high prices to pay for those players.
The guy who has thrown the most relief innings for the Pirates has a 0.83 ERA. 0.83! He has like 50 K and 5 walks. He's been insane. The Pirates are where they are right now in large part due to their bullpen, not just because Grilli has a lot of saves.
Melancon has been great. Better than any Tigers reliever. But he's one guy.
It was a counter to your point that you have to look deeper than total bullpen ERA. You can't just do that with Detroit. You have to do it with both teams. I just don't feel like doing it right now.
I get it - Detroit! I know. Why didn't they trade for Rios? Are people in Detroit pissed that Andy Dirks is still going to get meaningful ABs despite being far worse at the plate than Jose Tabata?
I think Detroit fans would have been irate if Dombrowski hadn't improved the bullpen and replaced Peralta with someone who is likely to be better than Santiago or Worth. Dirks hasn't been very good. But he's only the LH part of a platoon; the RH part has a .943 OPS. Rios hits RH.

Further, the team scores runs even with Dirks in the lineup. Losing Peralta will hurt their offense. But Avila and Victor Martinez are returning to form, and Infante is returning to the lineup. Fielder will no doubt hit better. Dirks probably will. I don't think Tigers fans are much worried about scoring runs.
Just like Pirate fans aren't all that concerned with their bullpen or without Rios or Schierholtz in RF (pretty much the only options available, unless you count Hunter Pence. Also, supposedly, the Bucs went hard after Gianmike Stanton. And then that rumor was shot down). I am personally thrilled that they didn't reach because they were "supposed" to and much of the Bucs board feels the same. The Cards stood pat. So did the Reds. Because there was just nothing out there worth getting.
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Re: MLB - August 2013 Thread

Post by DC47 »

Icepenis wrote:I keep saying this but it's like DC is on a mission to convince me that Pittsburgh should have done more
I don't know what their options were -- what was asked, what was offered. So no opinion. I was curious about how fans viewed this.
and that Rios is a sizeable upgrade.
I think this is pretty obvious. But it doesn't mean they should have paid whatever the price was for Rios. No one else did either.
I feel like someone is trying to explain to me the team that I have been watching for the past 4 months. I had no problems with the first question but now it's starting to grate a little.
Sorry you are grated. As above, not my intention. Beyond the initial discussion about Pirates fans -- the only thing I brought up -- I thought we were having a friendly, tangential baseball discussion. On these topics, perhaps the only thing we disagree on is the relative value (on the field) of Rios versus three Pirates outfielders who have played a lot.
And while you can't have all-stars everywhere, Dirks would be the Pirates 5th best outfielder, most likely. So why isn't anybody upset that the Tigers didn't go after Rios? I am not going to be convinced that Rios is a good option at his price.
See above as to why Rios isn't much of an upgrade for the Tigers. If he killed RH pitching he would be. There might have been others who would work better; I didn't pay any attention to this, so I don't know what they passed on.

Dirks is a weakness. But hitting was not one of their two biggest problems. They could also use a good LOOGY. No team fixes every weakness at the deadline.
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Re: MLB - August 2013 Thread

Post by Gunpowder »

DC47 wrote:
and that Rios is a sizeable upgrade.
I think this is pretty obvious. But it doesn't mean they should have paid whatever the price was for Rios. No one else did either.
I don't think it's obvious at all. Rios is league average, old and probably going to get worse. He costs $14.5 mil plus Tyler Glasnow. Tabata is league average, young and probably going to get better. He costs his weird rookie-ish contract.

Tabata has been playing RF 4 out of 5 games or so recently. When he's out, Alex Presley plays. Snider has been a non-factor for months now. He has no bearing on anything.
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Re: MLB - August 2013 Thread

Post by Gunpowder »

Basically - don't mention Travis Snider's name. At all. He has no bearing on anything. He's a 5th outfielder at this point and he hasn't been sent down because he's out of options.
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Re: MLB - August 2013 Thread

Post by DC47 »

Icepenis wrote:
DC47 wrote:
and that Rios is a sizeable upgrade.
I think this is pretty obvious. But it doesn't mean they should have paid whatever the price was for Rios. No one else did either.
It is not. Rios is league average, old and probably going to get worse. He costs $14.5 mil plus Tyler Glasnow. Tabata is league average, young and probably going to get better. He costs his weird rookie-ish contract.

Tabata has been playing RF 4 out of 5 games or so recently. When he's out, Alex Presley plays. Snider has been a non-factor for months now. He has no bearing on anything.
Compared to Tabata, this season Rios has a better OPS, is better on the bases, and fields better. Rios had a .850 OPS last year. Tabata was at .664. I think Rios is better than league-average this year. He certainly was last year. But perhaps you can point me to some data that's relevant?

Rios is 32 -- hardly over the hill in the short-term. Tabata is 24 and this is his fourth year in the majors; he has never had a better season than Rios is having this year.

It's a matter of opinion as we're talking about the future, but I'd say Rios is the better bet over the next two seasons. Tabata after that.

Rios cost in money and prospects is irrelevant in discussions of whether Rios would be an upgrade on the field. That's what I've been discussing. Perhaps you are conflating the two, as you keep mentioning the cost issue?

As I've said, I have no opinion as to whether a deal would have been wise. I don't know what the Pirates would have had to offer to make a deal. Don't know Glasnow.
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Re: MLB - August 2013 Thread

Post by Gunpowder »

Well, for starters, Alex Rios in 2014 and 2015 blocks Gregory Polanco, who is a top-10 MLB prospect, I believe.

Secondly, by numbers:

Alex Rios wRC+ (generally a better metric - 100 is average)

2011: 60
2012: 123
2013: 103

So yes, he was good last year. And he was abysmal the year before. And 32 is old for a hitter that's not on PEDs. Gerrit Jones is 32 this year, and he just started to fall off. The bat speed just isn't what it was a year or two ago.

Joey Tabats:

2011: 103
2012: 86
2013: 111 (PNC is an extreme pitchers park for RH batters)

There is no reason in my mind to replace a young guy like Tabata with Rios unless you can trade Tabata. And then there's the issue of Polanco looking like a future star and having just been promoted to AAA. Polanco is a prospect of the level that you can send to the Marlins in a legitimate package for Stanton. He's big time. I don't want Rios albatross of a contract in 2015 when he's making $13.5 MM, is 35 and is probably not as good as he was at 31.


I imagine OPS numbers are somewhat close this year. I'm rolling with Tabata and Presley as the 4th outfielder, occasionally spelling Tabats against right handers. I'm not giving up anything for the pleasure of paying Alex Rios. Would rather search for another Liriano or Russ Martin with that money in the offseason. Might need it to pay AJ Burnett. Who knows.
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Re: MLB - August 2013 Thread

Post by Gunpowder »

I'll argue the merits of Tabata over Rios all day long without being grated.
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Re: MLB - August 2013 Thread

Post by DC47 »

Icepenis wrote:Well, for starters, Alex Rios in 2014 and 2015 blocks Gregory Polanco, who is a top-10 MLB prospect, I believe.
Rios's contract ends in 2014. 2015 is a team option.
Secondly, by numbers:

Alex Rios wRC+ (generally a better metric - 100 is average)

2011: 60
2012: 123
2013: 103

So yes, he was good last year. And he was abysmal the year before. And 32 is old for a hitter that's not on PEDs. Gerrit Jones is 32 this year, and he just started to fall off. The bat speed just isn't what it was a year or two ago.

Joey Tabats:

2011: 103
2012: 86
2013: 111 (PNC is an extreme pitchers park for RH batters)
What do you think of my claim that Rios is superior in the field and on the bases?

You schooled me on the PNC issue. It's rated as extremely extreme. At least this year. The numbers vary each year by more than I would have expected, making me wonder about a single year-data point. Do you have the series for PNC going back a few years?

I don't think hitters decline all that much at age 32. Jones is a single case. And Rios still seems to have his legs, and be in good health.
There is no reason in my mind to replace a young guy like Tabata with Rios unless you can trade Tabata.


It would be a 'win now' move. They could indeed trade him. Or he could be the fourth outfielder.
And then there's the issue of Polanco looking like a future star and having just been promoted to AAA. Polanco is a prospect of the level that you can send to the Marlins in a legitimate package for Stanton. He's big time. I don't want Rios albatross of a contract in 2015 when he's making $13.5 MM, is 35 and is probably not as good as he was at 31.
As above, Rios is only under contract for 1 year and two months. $12.5m per year, plus $1m buyout for 2015 if he's traded.

It's ambitious to think of the Pirates landing Stanton. Lots of competition. And will he want to sign long term if PNC is hell on RH hitters? That doesn't make Polanco any less valuable though. Is he ready for the majors next season?
I imagine OPS numbers are somewhat close this year. I'm rolling with Tabata and Presley as the 4th outfielder, occasionally spelling Tabats against right handers. I'm not giving up anything for the pleasure of paying Alex Rios. Would rather search for another Liriano or Russ Martin with that money in the offseason. Might need it to pay AJ Burnett. Who knows.
All very reasonable, especially if the team won't be able to raise the payroll all that much despite having at minimum a very good season. Is attendance way up now that the Pirates are playing well?
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Re: MLB - August 2013 Thread

Post by A_B »

It's not worth all this. I guarantee it.
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Re: MLB - August 2013 Thread

Post by Gunpowder »

Rios's contract ends in 2014. 2015 is a team option.
Ok. Then I'll consider it a one year deal.

What do you think of my claim that Rios is superior in the field and on the bases?
I don't know if he is superior on the bases, but Tabata is no slouch when he's in shape. I'm sure he's a much better fielder BUT right field in PNC is not very difficult at all. Also, if one reason for the Tigers not upgrading their hitting is because they already have enough runs - why deal a legit prospect + pay that money (Rios would be the highest paid player on the team, I think - at least by what the Bucs would be paying him, as Yanks/Stros pay some of Burnett/WRod) to upgrade the best defense in MLB?

Statistically, he's far superior on the bases and in the field, but the difference with the bat is minimal.
You schooled me on the PNC issue. It's rated as extremely extreme. At least this year. The numbers vary each year by more than I would have expected, making me wonder about a single year-data point. Do you have the series for PNC going back a few years?
I'm sure a Google search would turn it up - I don't quite feel like it at the moment. It may not have been as extreme, but it's pretty much always a pitchers park, especially for righties. I don't think it's that much of a coincidence that all of these Pirate pitchers are rejuvenating their careers with a big left field and two top-notch center field defenders back there in Marte and Cutch. PNC ate Matt Holliday alive. The A's, however, with Cespedes and Crisp, covered the entire outfield and beat the Bucs at their own game.

Here's an example of PNCs vastness in left field - a good number of Miguel Cabrera's 400-foot blasts would barely clear the wall or even hit off of it at PNC:

http://www.hittrackeronline.com/detail2 ... ype=hitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And you can also see how little ground the RF has to cover next to McCutchen. I know half of the games are played away from there, and Garrett Jones is a butcher, but being next to Cutch seems to help cover up a lot of their deficiencies. Main point being I think the bat is more important than the glove here.
I don't think hitters decline all that much at age 32. Jones is a single case. And Rios still seems to have his legs, and be in good health.
But they do, generally from 31 up. Albert Pujols is 33. Josh Hamilton is 32. ARod regressed pretty big at 32/33. Without PEDs, hitters start to lose bat speed at this age.
It would be a 'win now' move. They could indeed trade him. Or he could be the fourth outfielder.
It's a barely upgrade now move that I don't think is even close to worth it. They need a lefty bat in RF much more than a righty bat. That's why I was thinking Schierholtz if anything but who knows what the Cubs wanted for him after they got that huge return for Garza.

As above, Rios is only under contract for 1 year and two months. $12.5m per year, plus $1m buyout for 2015 if he's traded.

It's ambitious to think of the Pirates landing Stanton. Lots of competition. And will he want to sign long term if PNC is hell on RH hitters? That doesn't make Polanco any less valuable though. Is he ready for the majors next season?
Stanton is arbitration eligible after this year. So he's got three years of team control no matter what he wants. As a fan, I'd love to see him go to Coors or Boston and just hit 80 dingers. Polanco is anybody's guess, he could be next June or he could be 2015. There's also a guy named Andrew Lambo in the minors who is just raking - lefty bat in RF, was once a top prospect with the Dodgers, looked like a bust, but came back strong this year. I look for him soon and would rather take my chances with him than trade for Rios.

All very reasonable, especially if the team won't be able to raise the payroll all that much despite having at minimum a very good season. Is attendance way up now that the Pirates are playing well?

Attendance is about on par with last season, as the Bucs were very good last year before mid-August. It's a small park (33,000 or so capacity) so it's tough to gauge based on that. But I think people realize that this team is much better than last year's team and Bucs fever is at a new high.
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Re: MLB - August 2013 Thread

Post by DSafetyGuy »

It seems that Detroit is trying to destroy whatever is left of Cleveland's desire to live this week. Two days after Alex Avila hit a game-winning home run to cap a ninth-inning rally off Chris Perez, Miguel Cabrera rebounds from a three-K start to pound the first pitch off Danny Salazar (in his second career start) into the seats for a two-run shot that puts the Tigers up in the eighth, 4-3.
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Re: MLB - August 2013 Thread

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DSafetyGuy wrote:It seems that Detroit is trying to destroy whatever is left of Cleveland's desire to live this week. Two days after Alex Avila hit a game-winning home run to cap a ninth-inning rally off Chris Perez, Miguel Cabrera rebounds from a three-K start to pound the first pitch off Danny Salazar (in his second career start) into the seats for a two-run shot that puts the Tigers up in the eighth, 4-3.
The Indians came back nicely though. Extras have been tense. I'm sure Cleveland will win in the bottom of the 13th. Jeremy Bonderman pitching lights out in a high-leverage situation can't last. I'll still be happy with 3 out of 4 if they win tomorrow.
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Re: MLB - August 2013 Thread

Post by Sabo »

That Miggy home run was a ball shot to every Indians fan out there. And while the come back to tie it is nice, it doesn't mean a thing since the Tigers went on to win it in the 14th inning.

That said, losing the series isn't a death blow to the Indians. Some of the more moronic Indians fans are treating this series as the end of the world, but as everyone knows, Cleveland fans have a history of overreacting to everything. They're still in it for a wild card spot, and frankly, that's probably the level they're playing at this year. They're fortunate the rest of the schedule is against a bunch of teams with losing records.

It is nice to see Danny Salazar pitching well. He was getting very little love as a good prospect but he's pushed himself to the top during the last two months. Both of his MLB starts have been very good, and he's been on fire in AAA. He'll be on limited innings and pitch counts this year because he's coming off Tommy John surgery, but he's miles better than Ubaldo Jimenez.
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Re: MLB - August 2013 Thread

Post by Giff »

The Astros bullpen is just atrocious. 69 (hehe) homers given up this year. 71 was the most given up by a bullpen last season.
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Re: MLB - August 2013 Thread

Post by Gunpowder »

Giff wrote:The Astros bullpen is just atrocious. 69 (hehe) homers given up this year. 71 was the most given up by a bullpen last season.

Here's a fun statistical confirmation of that:

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?p ... &sort=18,a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pitcher WAR is influenced heavily by FIP (so walks and strikeouts and the like), so I don't put a whole bunch of stock in it, but it shows just how bad the Stros have been relative to everyone else.
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Re: MLB - August 2013 Thread

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Can we agree that this Pirates season has been really fun so far?
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Re: MLB - August 2013 Thread

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rass wrote:Can we agree that this Pirates season has been really fun so far?
GFD, rass. NO. There are more important things than enjoying baseball with your eyes. What are you, some neanderthal scout or something?
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Re: MLB - August 2013 Thread

Post by Brontoburglar »

If -- big if, I know -- the Royals sweep the Red Sox, they will have had 23 game stretches of 4-19 and 19-4 this season. That's insane that it's even a small possibility right now.
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Re: MLB - August 2013 Thread

Post by Yard of Junk »

This little tidbit last night on the Brave's broadcast ...... Before the Tigers loss last night, the Tigers had a 12 game winning streak working, while the Braves were on a 13 game streak. The last time that two major league teams had streaks that long going on simultaneously was in 1884. The teams: The St. Louis Maroons and the New York Gothams.
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Re: MLB - August 2013 Thread

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Interesting. Surprising, too. Winning a dozen or so in a row is not that rare.

Old Hoss Radbourne was a mere 59-12 that year. With a 1.38 ERA. The Gothams finished 4th to OHR's Providence Grays in the National League. The Maroons went 94-19 in winning the Union Association by 21 games over a team that played .657 baseball (the Cincinnati Outlaw Reds).

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/PRO/1884.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: MLB - August 2013 Thread

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Has Mariano Rivera ever given up two home runs in the 9th to blow a save before? Ever? I'm guessing "no". Nice parting gift from the Tigers.
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Re: MLB - August 2013 Thread

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Scottie wrote:Has Mariano Rivera ever given up two home runs in the 9th to blow a save before? Ever? I'm guessing "no". Nice parting gift from the Tigers.
Yeah that was the first time in his career he's blown three saves in a row. Also the first time he ever gave up HRs on consecutive ABs to the same batter (Cabrera.) But he ended up getting the W anyway, so he got the last laugh I guess.
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Re: MLB - August 2013 Thread

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Guess I should have waited until the Yankees' at-bats in the last of the 9th.

Dickerson and Price over on WXYT seemed to be as shocked as the rest of the world when the Martinez home run followed the Cabrera home run.
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Re: MLB - August 2013 Thread

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Hidden ball trick! Rays catch both Juan Uribe and the base coach napping.

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Re: MLB - August 2013 Thread

Post by degenerasian »

That's Tim Wallach, he looked like he was napping when he played 3B for the Expos!
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Re: MLB - August 2013 Thread

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Tune in to Texas-Astros.
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Re: MLB - August 2013 Thread

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Don't bother now.
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Re: MLB - August 2013 Thread

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GFD Marte.
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Re: MLB - August 2013 Thread

Post by bfj »

3 walkoff losses in a row makes my pussy dry.
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