2017 NBA Finals

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:50 pm

Johnnie wrote:
Joe K wrote:I knew Nike was going to have a special commercial ready for Durant ready to go as soon as the game ended. Maybe I'm a little too "woke," but I totally believe the theories that Nike pushed him to sign with Golden State to dilute Curry's role as the star of that team since he's Under Armour's #1 guy.
That actually makes total sense. I like plausible theories.

Nike's top 3 guys for sneaker sales are LeBron, Durant and Kyrie. So they certainly get a nice showcase from the Cavs-Warriors matchups now. And I don't know how much Durant gets paid by Nike but I'm sure it's more than any NBA team can pay him.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:10 am

Anyway, I can't recommend this bandwagon thing enough, you guys.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:50 am

howard wrote:That last Bron miss will do it. Damn, Cavs never quit.

LeBron played 47 minutes last night.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:17 am

Pruitt wrote:
howard wrote:That last Bron miss will do it. Damn, Cavs never quit.
LeBron played 47 minutes last night.

After Game 1, Cleveland's offense was really, really good -- significantly better than it was in the regular season or in last year's Finals. They just couldn't get stops. Granted, I don't know if it's possible to defend a team with Golden State's firepower. Durant is completely unstoppable when he's surrounded by enough talent to prevent the defense from doubling him or otherwise shifting its entire attention to him. Even if you defend everything else well (which is a lot easier said than done) Durant can always just shoot over whoever is guarding him.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:59 am

GSW have already announced they're not going to the White House. Best team ever.

Post by **Sabo** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:00 am

Ryan wrote:GSW have already announced they're not going to the White House. Best team ever.

And reportedly it was a unanimous decision.

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:00 am

They should invite Comey to the parade

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:19 am

Rex wrote:They should invite Comey to the parade

And make him their center

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:32 am

Ryan wrote:GSW have already announced they're not going to the White House. Best team ever.

Has the team actually announced this, or is it all just "according to reports"? I'm seeing Tweets referencing "reports" of this decision but nothing I can find is actually from anyone on the Warriors.

Post by **brian** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:42 am

Joe K wrote:
Ryan wrote:GSW have already announced they're not going to the White House. Best team ever.
Has the team actually announced this, or is it all just "according to reports"? I'm seeing Tweets referencing "reports" of this decision but nothing I can find is actually from anyone on the Warriors.

Would be incredibly unsurprising since Steve Kerr and (supposedly) team ownership are not Trump fans.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:46 am

brian wrote:
Joe K wrote:
Ryan wrote:GSW have already announced they're not going to the White House. Best team ever.
Has the team actually announced this, or is it all just "according to reports"? I'm seeing Tweets referencing "reports" of this decision but nothing I can find is actually from anyone on the Warriors.
Would be incredibly unsurprising since Steve Kerr and (supposedly) team ownership are not Trump fans.

I know it would be unsurprising. But I was surprised to see the reports that the team had already voted on it (based on his performance at the 2015 parade, it's a safe bet that Draymond is still out partying) which don't actually appear to be linked to anyone within the organization.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:00 am

I actually talked to Javale McGee so I ran with it

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:01 am

That might be the 2nd most loathsome team in professional sports.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:01 am

They should visit Obama instead.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:20 am

Johnnie wrote:They should visit Obama instead.

This would set the entire country on fire in the best possible way.

Johnnie wrote:Wrong, Joe. You need to acknowledge the salary cap increase when a top 3 player was a free agent. That's the real MVP.

Is it that or the single player cap? That's where the NBA and/or PA has fucked themselves if disallowing super teams is really a concern.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:25 am

mister d wrote:
Johnnie wrote:They should visit Obama instead.
This would set the entire country on fire in the best possible way.

Ring ceremony with Obama, Hillary, Malala, Samantha Bee, and a Mexican Solar Panel

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:31 am

Samantha Bee maybe doesn't make that list anymore.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:50 am

mister d wrote:
Johnnie wrote:Wrong, Joe. You need to acknowledge the salary cap increase when a top 3 player was a free agent. That's the real MVP.
Is it that or the single player cap? That's where the NBA and/or PA has fucked themselves if disallowing super teams is really a concern.

This is probably true. Guys could always take big pay cuts to play with other stars, but on an open market LeBron and Durant are worth at least $50-60M/year. I think the NBA wants stacked teams, it's just that through luck/timing/good drafting the Warriors have taken it to a whole new level. Their combination of talent and age (Curry is their oldest star and just turned 29) is unprecedented. I really can't envision anyone else winning a title in at least the next 3 seasons unless the Warriors suffer some major injuries.

DSafetyGuy · Post by **DSafetyGuy** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:20 am

Curry's early injuries also did a nice job reducing his value (he played 26 games in 2011-12), enabling him to be signed in November 2012 to a 4-year, $44 million contract extension (he was originally under a $5.3 million qualifying offer for the 2013-14 season). Iguodala got four for $48 in the summer of 2013 as the Warriors' other big deal (they traded off guys and picks to clear salary to do it).

Some other guards' contracts from summer 2013, just for fun:
Jose Calderon - four years, $29 million
Tyreke Evans - four years, $44 million
Kevin Martin - four years, $28 million
OJ Mayo - three years, $41 million
Chris Paul - five years, $107 million
JR Smith - four years, $25 million

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:25 am

Note, that comment wasn't directed at Joe K. It was at owner Joe Lacob who made a dumb comment during his spiel.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:38 am

DSafetyGuy wrote:Curry's early injuries also did a nice job reducing his value (he played 26 games in 2011-12), enabling him to be signed in November 2012 to a 4-year, $44 million contract extension (he was originally under a $5.3 million qualifying offer for the 2013-14 season). Iguodala got four for $48 in the summer of 2013 as the Warriors' other big deal (they traded off guys and picks to clear salary to do it).

Some other guards' contracts from summer 2013, just for fun:
Jose Calderon - four years, $29 million
Tyreke Evans - four years, $44 million
Kevin Martin - four years, $28 million
OJ Mayo - three years, $41 million
Chris Paul - five years, $107 million
JR Smith - four years, $25 million

Good lord, OJ Mayo was a thing.

DaveInSeattle · Post by **DaveInSeattle** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:42 pm

Jerloma wrote:That might be the 2nd most loathsome team in professional sports.

Ok, I'll bite: Why?

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:53 pm

They don't have Ray Lewis.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:11 pm

My Cavs roster move wet dream.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:14 pm

A_B wrote:My Cavs roster move wet dream.

No way Indiana makes that trade.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:14 pm

Joe K wrote:
A_B wrote:My Cavs roster move wet dream.
No way Indiana makes that trade.

They consider it if they think George is bolting next summer.

duff · Post by **duff** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:21 pm

Not sure if they would take it. I am sure they can get draft picks and some filler for George. But it is time to trade him. Next season is going to be a shit show if he feels the team hasn't improved to his liking. The only fall back with the article is that it is within the division. So highly unlikely.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:22 pm

Does Carmelo and Noah for Love and Irving work for both sides?

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:30 pm

duff wrote:Not sure if they would take it. I am sure they can get draft picks and some filler for George. But it is time to trade him. Next season is going to be a shit show if he feels the team hasn't improved to his liking. The only fall back with the article is that it is within the division. So highly unlikely.

I think they're far more likely to trade George for some combo of draft picks and young talent than for Love. At this point, it's clear that you won't be a contender if Love is your #1 option. He's a very good player but is much better suited for a #2/#3 role. Even if Boston is sold on Fultz, I'd see what they're willing to do with Avery Bradley and their future draft picks before I went after Love. The Lakers also have a host of picks/young players that's more intriguing than Love.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:33 pm

Joe K wrote:
duff wrote:Not sure if they would take it. I am sure they can get draft picks and some filler for George. But it is time to trade him. Next season is going to be a shit show if he feels the team hasn't improved to his liking. The only fall back with the article is that it is within the division. So highly unlikely.
I think they're far more likely to trade George for some combo of draft picks and young talent than for Love. At this point, it's clear that you won't be a contender if Love is your #1 option. He's a very good player but is much better suited for a #2/#3 role. Even if Boston is sold on Fultz, I'd see what they're willing to do with Avery Bradley and their future draft picks before I went after Love. The Lakers also have a host of picks/young players that's more intriguing than Love.

I think it's unlikely they'd get george for Love. It was a wet dream, guys! A guy can hope when he's staring down the JUGGERNAUT, bitch.

duff · Post by **duff** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:36 pm

When you bring up the Pacers I have to chime in. George will be traded, but it will be for picks and prospects.

Sorry your team just lost in the Finals, bitch.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:38 pm

mister d wrote:Does Carmelo and Noah for Love and Irving work for both sides?

Cleveland would be nuts to make that trade. Or am I missing something?

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:38 pm

YEah the bitch wasn't directed at anyone.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:39 pm

Pruitt wrote:
mister d wrote:Does Carmelo and Noah for Love and Irving work for both sides?
Cleveland would be nuts to make that trade. Or am I missing something?

You're missing that Mr. D is a crazy person.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:40 pm

duff wrote:When you bring up the Pacers I have to chime in. George will be traded, but it will be for picks and prospects.

Sorry your team just lost in the Finals, bitch.

A_B wrote:
Joe K wrote:
duff wrote:Not sure if they would take it. I am sure they can get draft picks and some filler for George. But it is time to trade him. Next season is going to be a shit show if he feels the team hasn't improved to his liking. The only fall back with the article is that it is within the division. So highly unlikely.
I think they're far more likely to trade George for some combo of draft picks and young talent than for Love. At this point, it's clear that you won't be a contender if Love is your #1 option. He's a very good player but is much better suited for a #2/#3 role. Even if Boston is sold on Fultz, I'd see what they're willing to do with Avery Bradley and their future draft picks before I went after Love. The Lakers also have a host of picks/young players that's more intriguing than Love.
I think it's unlikely they'd get george for Love. It was a wet dream, guys! A guy can hope when he's staring down the JUGGERNAUT, bitch.

duff wrote:When you bring up the Pacers I have to chime in. George will be traded, but it will be for picks and prospects.

Sorry your team just lost in the Finals, bitch.

The better question IMO is if the Cavs would trade Irving for a star. I doubt they'd even think about trading him but he'd surely bring a better return than Love. If the goal is adding an elite two-way wing like George or Butler, Irving is more likely to bring that return. But given his importance to the Cavs' offense there's much more of a downside risk to an Irving trade.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:41 pm

Irving trades are a non-starter. Too young and too good and too contracted.

DSafetyGuy · Post by **DSafetyGuy** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:24 pm

duff wrote:When you bring up the Pacers I have to chime in. George will be traded, but it will be for picks and prospects.

Yep. Moving on from George shifts Indiana's fulcrum point to Myles Turner. That also wouldn't be a bad move because becoming less viable now means better draft picks to add to your 21-year-old center. There is no one else on the roster who is a major player for the Pacers when Turner reaches his prime (should they choose to trade George), so shifting to build around him (and tanking at the same time) is a good move.

They should call the Lakers and Celtics, making this year's first a baseline requirement from the former (LA would have to make the pick, then trade the draft rights because first-round picks can't be traded in consecutive years) and making Brooklyn's first next year and either Memphis' 2019 first-rounder or the Clips' 2019 first-rounder (if Chris Paul leaves) a baseline requirement from the latter.

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:09 pm

Isn't Irving himself already a bona fide star? There can't be more than 2 or 3 players at his position better than him in the NBA, right? Why would trading him "for a star" make any sense for Cleveland? Wouldn't they just be running in place at that point, star-wise?

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:38 pm

tennbengal wrote:Isn't Irving himself already a bona fide star? There can't be more than 2 or 3 players at his position better than him in the NBA, right? Why would trading him "for a star" make any sense for Cleveland? Wouldn't they just be running in place at that point, star-wise?

The reason to consider trading Irving is that while he's a brilliant scorer, he's not the lead playmaker on that team (it's LeBron), and can be a defensive liability. A player like George or Butler who can defend multiple positions while also scoring well would arguably have more value against Golden State. Cleveland's defense got absolutely lit up this Finals, so without some improvements defensively, they can't beat a healthy Warriors team. As for Irving's place among NBA point guards, that's debatable. Nearly everyone would put him behind Curry, Westbrook, Paul and Harden. Many would also put him behind Wall. Some who value defense more than I do would also put him behind Lowry and Conley. But the broader point is that with LeBron serving as that team's de facto point guard, an elite two-way wing like Butler or George might be more valuable.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:52 pm

Joe K wrote:
tennbengal wrote:Isn't Irving himself already a bona fide star? There can't be more than 2 or 3 players at his position better than him in the NBA, right? Why would trading him "for a star" make any sense for Cleveland? Wouldn't they just be running in place at that point, star-wise?

The reason to consider trading Irving is that while he's a brilliant scorer, he's not the lead playmaker on that team (it's LeBron), and can be a defensive liability. A player like George or Butler who can defend multiple positions while also scoring well would arguably have more value against Golden State. Cleveland's defense got absolutely lit up this Finals, so without some improvements defensively, they can't beat a healthy Warriors team. As for Irving's place among NBA point guards, that's debatable. Nearly everyone would put him behind Curry, Westbrook, Paul and Harden. Many would also put him behind Wall. Some who value defense more than I do would also put him behind Lowry and Conley. But the broader point is that with LeBron serving as that team's de facto point guard, an elite two-way wing like Butler or George might be more valuable.

Bump. Kyrie really fucked the Cavs by demanding a trade after the George and Butler deals already occurred.