Breaking Bad

[Jerloma]

Jesse's skating no matter what he does or doesn't give Hank. They have less evidence on him than they do on Walt. Whatever he's doing now to help bring down Walt is based on his own motives, not out of any need to avoid prosecution.

Well, we don't know for sure but they could conceivably have a full-fledged confession recorded.

[brian]

Jesse's skating no matter what he does or doesn't give Hank. They have less evidence on him than they do on Walt. Whatever he's doing now to help bring down Walt is based on his own motives, not out of any need to avoid prosecution.

Well, we don't know for sure but they could conceivably have a full-fledged confession recorded.

Well, like I said he gave them that freely, not because he was offered a "deal". The only thing they had on him was possession of that money and while I'm sure the DEA seized it and he would never getting it back (in real life), it itself is not evidence of a crime.

[A_B]

Jesse's skating no matter what he does or doesn't give Hank. They have less evidence on him than they do on Walt. Whatever he's doing now to help bring down Walt is based on his own motives, not out of any need to avoid prosecution.

Well, we don't know for sure but they could conceivably have a full-fledged confession recorded.

Well, like I said he gave them that freely, not because he was offered a "deal". The only thing they had on him was possession of that money and while I'm sure the DEA seized it and he would never getting it back (in real life), it itself is not evidence of a crime.

Hank implied that a deal was possible when they got in the car.

[brian]

Again, I could be wrong, but I assumed he means deal as far as an outcome that is mutually beneficial. I haven't seen on the show them threaten Jesse with any particular crime (because unless there's something that has happened "off-camera" he hasn't committed any). (Maybe driving while intoxicated at most.)

About the only thing the DEA could possibly offer him would be that they'd give him his seized money back, which I think we've seen by now Jesse doesn't care about. Perhaps "deal" implies witness protection or something like that also.

[Jerloma]

How about tax evasion? What does he have $5 million that he hasn't paid a cent on?

[Shirley]

Well, if they are going to build a case on Walt, it will almost have to include mountains of evidence against Jesse as well. There isn't really a way to get one without the other unless they cut Jesse a deal. The problem for Hank is that when (if) he finally brings the case in, there's gonna be a shitstorm that Heisenberg is his bro-in-law AND that he knew for a little while and didn't tell anyone. I'm not so sure any deal that Hank cuts is going to stand up. Of course, Jesse probably doesn't know that.

Do you guys think Jesse confessed to killing Gale? I have a hard time believing he'd say that on camera. It would have been easy to gloss over WHO shot Gale and let them assume it was Walt or some hired killer.

[brian]

I wonder if we'll get a chance to see pieces of that confession at some point.

[A_B]

Well, if they are going to build a case on Walt, it will almost have to include mountains of evidence against Jesse as well. There isn't really a way to get one without the other unless they cut Jesse a deal. The problem for Hank is that when (if) he finally brings the case in, there's gonna be a shitstorm that Heisenberg is his bro-in-law AND that he knew for a little while and didn't tell anyone. I'm not so sure any deal that Hank cuts is going to stand up. Of course, Jesse probably doesn't know that.

Do you guys think Jesse confessed to killing Gale? I have a hard time believing he'd say that on camera. It would have been easy to gloss over WHO shot Gale and let them assume it was Walt or some hired killer.

Hank said: "The kid? Oh you mean the junkie murderer who's dribbling all over my guest bathroom floor?" I think he told about Gale. Jesse only killed one other person, and that was in a shootout in Mexico, no?

Also, the "exact reverse opposite" thing that Jesse said might be a tip that Walt is going to do what they expect.

[howard]

Jesse has two dads.

Ain't the first time. Walter vs Mike for who was gonna be Jesse's dad. And I want to bring up something. I think Walt has been a crappy father figure for Jessie. Never trusted him. Always fucking with his head severely. Overly patronizing when he is 'taking care of Jessie'. Not least of when he let Jane die off.

The kinda paternal relationship between the two is a central part of the show. I think Walter has been woeful, just horrible. While Jessie is a huge, recurrent fuckup, Walt bears a lot of responsibility.

Discuss.

[DSafetyGuy]

Anyone else have the thought that maybe, just maybe, Saul's buddy who makes people disappear will be back to take Skyler, Jr and the baby far, far away from this mess?

I think that when you have Saul call the vacuum repair guy, what you're really doing is paying for the vacuum cleaner guy to kill you.

[Shirley]

Jesse has two dads.

Ain't the first time. Walter vs Mike for who was gonna be Jesse's dad. And I want to bring up something. I think Walt has been a crappy father figure for Jessie. Never trusted him. Always fucking with his head severely. Overly patronizing when he is 'taking care of Jessie'. Not least of when he let Jane die off.

The kinda paternal relationship between the two is a central part of the show. I think Walter has been woeful, just horrible. While Jessie is a huge, recurrent fuckup, Walt bears a lot of responsibility.

Discuss.

Absolutely. Walt has been horrible to Jesse, although he probably thinks otherwise. I guess he did teach Jesse a certain amount of work ethic and responsibility, but at the cost of constant abuse and mental torture. I think Walt does legitimately care about Jesse, but he's also more than willing to do nearly anything to Jesse to further Walt's goals. He's very much an abusive, overbearing father. The Great Whitetini.

[Jerloma]

Jesse has two dads.

Ain't the first time. Walter vs Mike for who was gonna be Jesse's dad. And I want to bring up something. I think Walt has been a crappy father figure for Jessie. Never trusted him. Always fucking with his head severely. Overly patronizing when he is 'taking care of Jessie'. Not least of when he let Jane die off.

The kinda paternal relationship between the two is a central part of the show. I think Walter has been woeful, just horrible. While Jessie is a huge, recurrent fuckup, Walt bears a lot of responsibility.

Discuss.

Absolutely. Walt has been horrible to Jesse, although he probably thinks otherwise. I guess he did teach Jesse a certain amount of work ethic and responsibility, but at the cost of constant abuse and mental torture. I think Walt does legitimately care about Jesse, but he's also more than willing to do nearly anything to Jesse to further Walt's goals. He's very much an abusive, overbearing father. The Great Whitetini.

Why did he jump off the handle when Skysenberg suggested he kill him?

[brian]

Why did he jump off the handle when Skysenberg suggested he kill him?

Because he really does have fatherly feelings towards Jesse. In his head, it was almost as if she had suggested whacking Walt Jr.

(And I don't want to get too much into the psychology of all this, but I think one of the reasons Walter has "adopted" Jesse is because in some ways he's the son Walt Jr. couldn't be because of his disability. I think it drives Walt mad in places even he wouldn't admit that he has a disabled son.)

[BSF21]

Well, if they are going to build a case on Walt, it will almost have to include mountains of evidence against Jesse as well. There isn't really a way to get one without the other unless they cut Jesse a deal. The problem for Hank is that when (if) he finally brings the case in, there's gonna be a shitstorm that Heisenberg is his bro-in-law AND that he knew for a little while and didn't tell anyone. I'm not so sure any deal that Hank cuts is going to stand up. Of course, Jesse probably doesn't know that.

Do you guys think Jesse confessed to killing Gale? I have a hard time believing he'd say that on camera. It would have been easy to gloss over WHO shot Gale and let them assume it was Walt or some hired killer.

Hank said: "The kid? Oh you mean the junkie murderer who's dribbling all over my guest bathroom floor?" I think he told about Gale. Jesse only killed one other person, and that was in a shootout in Mexico, no?

Also, the "exact reverse opposite" thing that Jesse said might be a tip that Walt is going to do what they expect.

There had to me so much more he didn't tell though. With the history between Hank and Jesse, what with him beating the fuck out of him etc., what happens when Jesse confesses to being in the burn when Hank shot it out with Tuco? When he find out that Jesse was still directly involved with the operation when the cartel hit was put out on him? My guess is that Jesse glossed over some of the finer points to paint a more direct picture of Walt's true self.

Jesse still only knows half truths about a lot of what happened. He still has never gotten a clear answer from Walt about Brock. He has no idea what happened with Jane. Walt has never really opened up about what happened with Mike, as Jesse simply inferred that he had killed him.

Also, I bought the whole father figure thing until Walt went full empire mode on everything. I think that when they were first starting out Walt felt like he was part of a symbiotic relationship with Jesse. Jesse was providing him with distribution for a product. Walt provided him guidance, focus, and a purpose. They both gained financially. After these initial transactions, Jesse has been nothing more than a loose end to Walt. The only thing that has kept him from disposing of Jesse since then is APD's interest in him and his known associations. In Walt's mind, he didn't need to kill him because he was providing him a service in that he couldn't go to the cops without mutually assured destruction of himself as well. Now that Jesse has basically resigned himself to caring about his life and let the guilt of what he has done consume him, the MAD scenario is no longer valid. Jesse has no way to reconcile what he has done. Walt can always fall back on "this was all for my family, and the people I have killed or destroyed were a threat to that family so I had to do it". Jesse doesn't have that, as all he ever got out of it was money. Jesse serves no further purpose to Walt and has become a threat.

---typed that over the course of 3 different phone calls. hopefully it was coherent.

[brian]

By the way if you're not reading the AV Club's reviews of each episode (after you've watched it of course), you should be.

[Shirley]

Why did he jump off the handle when Skysenberg suggested he kill him?

He got on Saul for the same suggestion. I have a couple of thoughts about that. First, as we have said, he cares for Jesse. He doesn't want to hurt Jesse. He does hurt Jesse of course, repeatedly, but always justifies it to himself as being for Jesse's own good (e.g. killing Gale so that Gus can't use Gale to replace Walt and Jesse (although it's not clear that Gus really had it in for Jesse at that point)).

My other thought about that is that while Walt has become this bad guy, he doesn't like to think of himself that way. He likes to think that he's the good guy and he only kills bad guys who had it coming. He doesn't want to hear someone else suggest that he should "break bad" a little more. He needs to come to that realization himself, so that he has time to come up with a good justification. I think he also needs for it to be HIS idea and not someone else's.

That last part is why I think there's a good chance that the job for the Nazis may not be as simple as killing Jesse. Maybe he's going to try to scare Jesse back to his side.

[Johnnie]

I, for one, am looking forward to the probable mix up with confessions. There's gotta be one of those, right?

[Jerloma]

My other thought about that is that while Walt has become this bad guy, he doesn't like to think of himself that way. He likes to think that he's the good guy and he only kills bad guys who had it coming. He doesn't want to hear someone else suggest that he should "break bad" a little more. He needs to come to that realization himself, so that he has time to come up with a good justification. I think he also needs for it to be HIS idea and not someone else's.

Yeah, I think you're right. I also think Walt has a shred of humanity left and it's going to end up saving Jesse.

[Johnnie]

I had no idea that there was a recurring pink bear motif.

I suck at subtlety and noticing things like this. I'm thankful for the internet for picking up my slack.

[howard]

I had caught fewer than half of those references in the show.

[Pruitt]

Breaking Bad as an 80's comedy.

[Jerloma]

Dukes of Hazard is an awesome theme song. I'm going home to learn that shit on piano immediately.

[Giff]

So this whole time, they only have to get out of Bernalillo county and Jessie/Walt are good?!?

[Jerloma]

Holy shit...just D,G,A through the whole thing. Mary had a Little Lamb is harder to play.

[A_B]

It's Waylon Jennings. There was never gonna be more than three chords.

[howard]

'Meth Damon'. Heh.

[howard]

"Don't skimp on family, that's what I always say."

[Jerloma]

That was a lot of bullets with nobody getting hit. We know at the least that Walt gets out of there because of the foreshadow of him getting the ricin vial. Gomez is surely dead. Not sure about Hank. No idea how this ends but Walt could possibly be breaking good. He looks like he's done.

[Jerloma]

'Meth Damon'. Heh.

My wife says he looks like a cross between Damon and Phillip Seymour Hoffman.

[Shirley]

Wow.

That wasn't very Breakng Bad-like to stop in the middle of the shoot out. That's the kind of ploy a lesser show uses. Jerloma, it looked to me like Gomie had been hit. When it was just about to get going, I thought for sure Hank and Gomez were both going down. Nothing like a nice "I love you" moment with the wife just before getting rubbed out in a crime story. That's the second most lethal plot development after "I'm retiring tomorrow."

I have to say, I rather enjoyed seeing Hank outwit Walt for once. That was a great ploy. Actually, come to think of it, Walt was out maneuvered several times in this episode - the nazis got him to cook again, Hank didn't for a second fall for the girlfriend trick, and then the money gag. You could even throw in a fourth with the nazis showing up anyway, but that one is actually a good thing for Walt (at the expense of one more piece out of his soul).

I thought Jesse was going after family, but he made the right call with the money. Actually, you could argue it's the same thing, because Walt sees that money as his family's.

So, back to the shoot out. Regardless of how inaccurate the nazis may be at first, there's no way hank and Gomie can win, right? A small pistol and a shotgun against, what ... six heavily armed dudes? They simply don't have enough bullets. Maybe Walt's dropped gun will become a key chess piece.

[Shirley]

it looked to me like Gomie had been hit.

I retract this. It was just the shadows on his shirt. I still think he's going down though.

Thinking about this scene some more, I wonder if Walt is going to have to make a choice here of whom to help. Does he save Hank (and Jesse) or turn on the Nazis? Or are both choices impossible since he's handcuffed? Also, what's Jesse going to do? He doesn't have a gun and if he leaves Walt's car, he doesn't have any cover.

[Shirley]

p.s. Oh, Todd.

[Pruitt]

I too thought it was weird that the show ended mid-shootout.

But with just three shows left, the carnage has to begin soon. Not evn going to predict who leaves the dessert - but bear in mind that the gun fight is occurring near the spot where Walt's money has been buried...

[Johnnie]

In shock. Whoa. Michelle McLaren is a master. That episode was nothing but power from beginning to end. My god.

I, for one, loved the "These Colors Don't Run" tea mug at the beginning as a cutesy sort of juxtaposition for the color in the meth. And then it doubled as an amazing foreshadow for the shootout at the end.

The photo with the money in the barrel through the end of the episode was 20+ straight minutes of the highest tension of TV I've watched in a very long time.

Gomie & Hank are dead though. Too much firepower. Way too much. I also get the feeling that Jesse isn't long for that world either. I mean...how could he be?

But then again...Vince Gilligan is a master of deception.

The only turd in that otherwise masterful punch bowl was Todd not knowing how to shoot a fucking pistol. That was extremely annoying. Unless it was intentional, of course. Then it's just slightly less annoying.

And there are still 3 episodes left? Holy fuckballs.

[Jerloma]

It's entirely possible that they run out of ammo and then manage to show the Nazis their badges, who don't want to kill cops obviously or they wouldn't have asked to see their badges in the first place.

[Shirley]

I think Jesse could survive. For one, I don't know that the Nazis know he's there. Second, if they kill Hank and Gomie, Walt will speak up and ask them to spare Jesse. Of course, at that point, Walt will be completely indebted to the Nazis. I'm not sure how they hold him to that, but I'm sure they wouldn't be above threatening his family at that point.

I have thinking about any way for Hank to get out of this alive and it's hard to think of one. If he and Gomez die, that's really the only way Walt can walk away. They die and the evidence dies with them, assuming Walt then destroys the recording of that last phone call - maybe recorded on the Hello Kitty phone itself.

So, I say Hank and Gomez are down - well, definitely Gomez. Jesse lives. They can't kill off Jesse and Hank with three episodes to go. Maybe Hank somehow escapes, although I can't see how that's possible. The only way that would jibe with the fact that we know Walt goes free would be if Walt somehow saves Hank and Hank lets him go. But I can't figure out how that could happen.

[Shirley]

It's entirely possible that they run out of ammo and then manage to show the Nazis their badges, who don't want to kill cops obviously or they wouldn't have asked to see their badges in the first place.

I thought the "show us your badges" ploy was just to get them to take their hands off the guns for a second so they could kill them. Once you've pulled a bunch of machine guns on police in the desert - who are arresting the guy who can link you to multiple murders and meth production - there's no going back. A shootout was 100% guaranteed at that point. Hank knew that too, which is why he was slowly walking closer to his truck for shelter.

[Jerloma]

Nah, I think they legitimately wanted to verify if they were cops. Although, you're correct in that it may not save them anyway.


So does anyone have any theories on who that vial of ricin is for?

[Johnnie]

I just have to add these. (I said I wasn't going to browse the Subreddit, but ehhh. I can't resist.)

[brian]

I have an idea the last three episodes are going to involve Walt trying to redeem himself (but ultimately failing).

I think Walt and Jesse survive the shootout while Hank and Gomie die.
Walt convinces the Nazis to let Jesse live and in return becomes indebted to them.
Walt betrays them in some way (destroying the rest of the methlaymine?)
This results in them retaliating against him (why/how his home gets destroyed?) likely resulting in the death of his family.
The flash-forwards we've seen with Mr. Lambert and the retrieval of the ricin are the final act of a dying, vengeful man with nothing to lose. (If I had to bet I would guess the ricin is actually for himself. Win or lose at the end, I imagine he plans on killing himself).

How/where does Jesse fare in that scenario? I have no idea. My personal hope is that he somehow gets away and starts over somewhere. More than just about all of the characters, I think he deserves a chance at redemption.