Breaking Bad

DaveInSeattle · Post by **DaveInSeattle** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:15 pm

I won't make any guesses/predictions on where this is going, but wow that was an intense, crazy episode.

And some seriously "A-Team" level of marksmanship during the last scene.

howard · Post by **howard** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:38 pm

DaveInSeattle wrote:And some seriously "A-Team" level of marksmanship during the last scene.

Two guys, standing with no cover, with a pistol and a shotgun, facing four dudes w/cars for cover and all that iron, yeah. But repeat to myself, 'it's just a show; you should really just relax'.

DaveInSeattle · Post by **DaveInSeattle** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:57 pm

howard wrote:
DaveInSeattle wrote:And some seriously "A-Team" level of marksmanship during the last scene.
Two guys, standing with no cover, with a pistol and a shotgun, facing four dudes w/cars for cover and all that iron, yeah. But repeat to myself, 'it's just a show; you should really just relax'.

I thought that when I wondered where Hank got the money for the "Money in the barrel" cell phone pix...

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:25 pm

I was surprised that walter got outsmarted that soundly so quickly. But at least it was on the one thing that caused him to act irrationally throughout the series.

Weatherfrog · Post by **Weatherfrog** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:13 pm

howard wrote:
DaveInSeattle wrote:And some seriously "A-Team" level of marksmanship during the last scene.
Two guys, standing with no cover, with a pistol and a shotgun, facing four dudes w/cars for cover and all that iron, yeah. But repeat to myself, 'it's just a show; you should really just relax'.

That one skin head had an AA12. Such a sick weapon. He coulda taken out hank and gome by himself. Lots of bad marksmanship.

That whole last scene was just so intense though. I just kept saying to myself, " the skinheads are coming."

Post by **Shirley** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:09 pm

I thought the shootout missing was a bit ridiculous as well until I saw a quick clip again of the scene. It wasn't nearly as close or open as it first appeared. Check the following two pics.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:24 am

brian wrote:I have an idea the last three episodes are going to involve Walt trying to redeem himself (but ultimately failing).

I think Walt and Jesse survive the shootout while Hank and Gomie die.
Walt convinces the Nazis to let Jesse live and in return becomes indebted to them.
Walt betrays them in some way (destroying the rest of the methlaymine?)
This results in them retaliating against him (why/how his home gets destroyed?) likely resulting in the death of his family.
The flash-forwards we've seen with Mr. Lambert and the retrieval of the ricin are the final act of a dying, vengeful man with nothing to lose. (If I had to bet I would guess the ricin is actually for himself. Win or lose at the end, I imagine he plans on killing himself).

How/where does Jesse fare in that scenario? I have no idea. My personal hope is that he somehow gets away and starts over somewhere. More than just about all of the characters, I think he deserves a chance at redemption.

I agree with all of this, but I think Jesse dies (not immediately, but eventually). Especially the bolded part. He's going out on his own terms and not the cancer's.

He becomes indebted and then at some point has to get away and get some heavy weaponry. Comes back, avenges all who has killed his family, and kills himself out of guilt?

Plus, I'm still buying onto the theory that he takes on an aspect of everyone who's death he's responsible for. So Jesse's green jacket and using Skyler's maiden name (Lambert) as his own is so striking. (Then you have the neighbor's reaction flash forward.)

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:43 am

Why would he kill himself with ricin as opposed to just a bullet? Too proud to have anyone think that he killed himself?

Post by **Shirley** » Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:08 am

I don't see any way that he'd kill himself with ricin. That's an awful way to go and it would take days. Maybe the ricin is for Lydia? She does love her tea and she can't get through all of this unscathed.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:30 pm

brian wrote:I have an idea the last three episodes are going to involve Walt trying to redeem himself (but ultimately failing).

I think Walt and Jesse survive the shootout while Hank and Gomie die.
Walt convinces the Nazis to let Jesse live and in return becomes indebted to them.
Walt betrays them in some way (destroying the rest of the methlaymine?)
This results in them retaliating against him (why/how his home gets destroyed?) likely resulting in the death of his family.
The flash-forwards we've seen with Mr. Lambert and the retrieval of the ricin are the final act of a dying, vengeful man with nothing to lose. (If I had to bet I would guess the ricin is actually for himself. Win or lose at the end, I imagine he plans on killing himself).

How/where does Jesse fare in that scenario? I have no idea. My personal hope is that he somehow gets away and starts over somewhere. More than just about all of the characters, I think he deserves a chance at redemption.

All makes sense, but I think that after everything that's happened, there can be no redemption.

Post by **brian** » Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:22 pm

Breaking Bad spinoff "Better Call Saul" is officially a thing. Though note that the show is a prequel.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:44 pm

Catching up on Grantland podcasts and the point is made on Simmons' podcast with Andy Greenwald: Dean Norris (Hank) made the rounds at ESPN and even has a Grantland interview himself with Chris Ryan. So it's looking like Hank dies just because.

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:02 am

I tried to slog my way through the Andy Greenwald and Chris Ryan podcast this week, and just couldn't do it. Like listening to a thirty year old, hipster, Chris Berman guffawing with his doppelgänger in bad jokes mate.

Weatherfrog · Post by **Weatherfrog** » Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:26 am

Agreed. I don't mind the articles, but that podcast is terrible. They sound like NPR reject bin.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:08 am

Anyone catch this Jimmy Fallon skit? It's excellent.

kranepool · Post by **kranepool** » Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:33 am

brian wrote:Breaking Bad spinoff "Better Call Saul" is officially a thing. Though note that the show is a prequel.

I really hope David Cross finds a way on to that show.

howard · Post by **howard** » Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:39 pm

"Let's cook!"

vandwagon · Post by **vandwagon** » Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:23 pm

howard wrote:"Let's cook!"

Todd is terrifying.

kranepool · Post by **kranepool** » Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:39 pm

Ever the protector, Walt knows the police are on the line. He blames Skyler, rips her, knowing all along that there are others listening in - he's showing the authorities that it's all him (and only him).

Weatherfrog · Post by **Weatherfrog** » Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:10 am

vandwagon wrote:
howard wrote:"Let's cook!"
Todd is terrifying.

Just another example of this show pushing the limits with trying to make you hate the good guys and love the bad guys.

Who among us wasn't kind of pissed off at Walt Jr for calling the cops? Even though that was totally the right thing to do!

At least Hank died with dignity.

vandwagon · Post by **vandwagon** » Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:14 am

kranepool wrote:Ever the protector, Walt knows the police are on the line. He blames Skyler, rips her, knowing all along that there are others listening in - he's showing the authorities that it's all him (and only him).

That didn't cross my mind at all when I watched it. That rant seemed so out of character for him though. Makes perfect sense.

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:17 am

vandwagon wrote:
kranepool wrote:Ever the protector, Walt knows the police are on the line. He blames Skyler, rips her, knowing all along that there are others listening in - he's showing the authorities that it's all him (and only him).
That didn't cross my mind at all when I watched it. That rant seemed so out of character for him though. Makes perfect sense.

Yeah me either.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:43 am

vandwagon wrote:
kranepool wrote:Ever the protector, Walt knows the police are on the line. He blames Skyler, rips her, knowing all along that there are others listening in - he's showing the authorities that it's all him (and only him).
That didn't cross my mind at all when I watched it. That rant seemed so out of character for him though. Makes perfect sense.

Felt really stupid last night.

Show ends and I turn to my wife and say that that's it - no way Walt can ever have contact with his family again. Started to ramble about Walt's evil etc.

Wife looks at me like I was a six year old and calmly explains how Walt had to know the cops were listening in and what he did was saved Skyler from jail, and even made it so Marie would one day forgive her, thus saving the remnants of his family.

I felt really dumb.

duff · Post by **duff** » Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:44 am

Giff wrote:
vandwagon wrote:
kranepool wrote:Ever the protector, Walt knows the police are on the line. He blames Skyler, rips her, knowing all along that there are others listening in - he's showing the authorities that it's all him (and only him).
That didn't cross my mind at all when I watched it. That rant seemed so out of character for him though. Makes perfect sense.
Yeah me either.

Mamaduff called it right away. I thought he was just being a complete assbag.

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:00 am

I was starting to think for a second that the ricin was for the baby. That's how crazy this show is. I actually thought that Walt would poison his baby daughter.

So what's the deal with Jesse all slaved up in the meth lab with Walt coming in behind him? Is that a foreshadow?

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:19 am

Jerloma wrote:I was starting to think for a second that the ricin was for the baby. That's how crazy this show is. I actually thought that Walt would poison his baby daughter.

So what's the deal with Jesse all slaved up in the meth lab with Walt coming in behind him? Is that a foreshadow?

That was Todd, I'm positive.

Walt taking the fall was pretty well done. It took me a second, but when she apologized I realized he was giving her an out.

The Gun is to rescue jesse, where he poisons all the neo nazis with the ricin a la Gus at the mexican ranch. Then shot mentioned above is indeed foreshadowing the above when Walt comes up behind Jesse to start cooking again.

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:25 am

So when Walt pointed out Jesse to them in the desert to have them killed, did he know that Todd was going to stop them?

howard · Post by **howard** » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:24 am

So, because I caught that Walt on the phone was speaking to the cops, in order to exonerate Skyler, does that make me a suburban housewife?

Nice gratuitous calling Skyler a bitch, as a bone thrown to all the Skyler haters.

Walt wrote off Jessie, irrevocably. J, he did not know Todd would keep Jessie alive; once he told Jessie about Jane, that was it. Walt will not change course and try to rescue Jessie. IMO.

I am mildly annoyed that the Lydia subplot has not been advanced, leaving a lot of ground to cover in just two episodes. As she said, 'a lot of moving pieces'. I fear they will have to rush to catch up on that, yet expect they will use her in a clever and unexpected manner.

I see Todd emerging as the new Heisenberg; and Walt's last act, after extracting revenge on the rest of the skinheads, to destroy any successor to the Heisenberg throne.

What an episode.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:10 pm

Another excellent episode.

I'm glad you guys are much more intuitive then me. I didn't read that the way Walt was acting was to keep Skylar out of it. But it makes all the sense in the world.

So does AB's point with the ricin. Gilligan likes to throwback to previous scenes and all of the nazis dying would be symmetrical to the Mexican ranch.

I was hoping we'd get to see Saul's guy, but we didn't. Oh well.

Lastly, seeing Gomez dead almost immediately was kinda anticlimactic.

DSafetyGuy · Post by **DSafetyGuy** » Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:34 pm

The subtext of Walter's berating of Skyler was that he was finally getting everything he ever wanted about how she dominated his life and turned him into a meek little man off his chest.

As an aside, this is why they cast someone tall enough with fairly broad shoulders - for a woman - who essentially towers over Walt when wearing even the shortest of heels to be his wife. Skyler dominates him in all aspects of his life, deciding everything for the family and even literally looking down on Walt when standing face to face (even physically, as illustrated last night when Walt had to struggle so hard to disarm her) and he finally got to tell her off... and she still won't realize he's doing (putting the needs of her and the family first).

Walt telling Jesse about watching Jane die was Walt's way of twisting the knife for being ratted out. He'd already told them to kill him.

Should the machine gun be to save Jesse, I'm expecting something to fail on the plausibility scale along the way. Saul is very bottom line about how calling the vacuum repair guy being a final stroke and an absolute disconnection from your life. He's always given in to Walt's wishes, but he's going to be the bridge to coming back and getting the gun. After all, how will Walt even find out Jesse's current status as a meth-making slave?

Another possibility for the machine gun? Saving Walt's remaining family members. After all, Marie knows Jesse spilled his guts about Walt. All Jesse has to do is mention Hank's wife in any way as it pertains to his video confession. The skinheads may want to make sure all loose ends are tied up. That means Skyler and Walt Jr., too, as the next step on that path.

Also, since they happened over the break between episodes, it'll be forgotten that even "Breaking Bad" fell to some TV/movie stereotypes. Minority in a small role dies (Gomie). Good guy dies right after calling his wife after solving the big case (Hank).

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:42 pm

I'm sorry...I think I missed the machine gun thing. What is that about?

Minority in a small role dies (Gomie)

It's New Mexico...he's practically the majority.

DSafetyGuy · Post by **DSafetyGuy** » Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:39 pm

Jerloma wrote:I'm sorry...I think I missed the machine gun thing. What is that about?

First episode of the season, Walt's 52nd birthday, he's back in New Mexico at a diner (with a New Hampshire driver's license in his wallet), buying a machine gun, which is in the truck of a car.

Jerloma wrote:
Minority in a small role dies (Gomie)
It's New Mexico...he's practically the majority.

Did you miss the "TV/movie stereotype" part?

Post by **Shirley** » Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:33 pm

Wow.

That phone call scene was incredible. Like most of you, at first I thought he was sincere, but it was confusing, because the tone didn't really match him. Also, the things he said didn't quite make sense with what we know is the truth. It took me a few sentences, but I picked up on what he was going for. It was incredible to see where Skyler realized it as well. There's that long pause and then she says "I'm sorry," playing along with the cowed wife theme. Then we got a great shot of Walt on the other end, and you can see in his face that he knows she gets what he's doing. And I think there, it actually becomes a bit harder for him to go on - because he loves her more for understanding his ruse and playing along. He's saving her and she knows it.

Great writing and acting.

So, after it all, I was thinking that obviously the big gun and the ricin are for Walt to come back and rescue the last member of his "family" - Jesse. But then I remembered that Walt doesn't know that Jesse is alive, much less an enslaved cook. Maybe he finds out later? But then, why does Walt not implicate Jack and Friendz either when he has the fight with Skyler and Walt Jr. or later on the phone with the cops? He says, or at least strongly implies, that HE killed Hank. Why not at least lessen the awful truth by pointing out that he wasn't the one who killed Hank?

I think it's because he already knew that he was coming back for revenge. As soon as he left in that leaky black car, he knew that he was going to use the money to disappear and then come back one day to avenge Hank and Walt's $70mm. He didn't work that hard and destroy his family to let those inbreds take his money scot free.

No, the gun is for the Nazis, not for rescue. The question is whether he finds out that Jesse is there or not before he goes in. I suspect that after a year of cooling off, he will be back to caring for Jesse. He won't want to see him dead or enslaved. Granted, I doubt Jesse will really want to give him a big hug after a year in chains, but whatever.

BTW, I can't believe Skyler allowed Marie to be there when she told Walt Jr. That is NOT the time to have the hostile sister around.

How long until Sunday?

howard · Post by **howard** » Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:52 am

Shirley wrote:Wow.
…
I suspect that after a year of cooling off…

This is a factor that I had forgotten to consider. How much time passes before the occasion of the flash-forward, when he gets the machine gun and he marks his 52nd birthday.

A year. A long time, lots can happen.

Post by **Shirley** » Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:45 am

howard wrote:
Shirley wrote:Wow.
…
I suspect that after a year of cooling off…
This is a factor that I had forgotten to consider. How much time passes before the occasion of the flash-forward, when he gets the machine gun and he marks his 52nd birthday.

A year. A long time, lots can happen.

I think I may have overcounted there. He celebrated his 51st a little while ago on the show, so it's probably more like 6 months or so. Definitely plenty of time for Walt to put together a plan. Think there will be any of his $69mm left? Probably not. But then, they are still getting paid by the Czechs too, so maybe he will have some money to steal.

On the other hand ... I don't think Walt walks away. He already lost his family and probably for good. He cut them loose with that phone call - although that probably actually ignited in Skyler a pilot light of potential redemption. Walt Jr's passions will cool, so maybe there's a chance. But then, he'll be a wanted man, so they still would have to make a run for it.

No, I think the happy family ending is impossible. Not going to happen. I think Walt will go back solely for revenge - possibly with the intention of getting his money back for Skyler, Holly (when she asked for "mama", that melted Walt's cold heart) and Flynn. He'll find Jesse chained up there and he'll sacrifice himself for Jesse. Jesse deserves to live and I have to think this show will give us that. I hope so.

DaveInSeattle · Post by **DaveInSeattle** » Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:32 am

The "Mama Mama" scene was improvised by the baby....

Did the script really say: "HOLLY: [cries] Mama! Mama!"? Because that baby delivered.
Walley-Beckett: We got very, very lucky, didn’t we Rian? We got lucky because that was a shaky moment for the baby. It’s a stressful situation for little kids. It was not scripted. She was looking at her mom off-stage and started saying that at the exact moment where it is scripted that Walt has a pang that this is morally reprehensible to do this to his daughter, to deprive her of a normal life. And this little baby just started looking at mom and we just rolled.
Johnson: The baby’s mom was like three feet away, right next to the camera. The baby was not actually screaming for her mother. As scripted it was just going to be this beautiful powerful moment where Walt looks at her. He brings her up to eye level and looks into her eyes and has that realization. I remember we were gathered around the monitor and he raises her and up and she started saying "mama," and we all just looked at each other.
Walley-Beckett: Rian just let it roll, and Bryan went with it.
Johnson: That’s the other thing. In that situation, Bryan is really the one doing the directing because the way that he shapes the performance between himself and the baby is really about the way he handles her and plays off of her. In terms of emotional beats of that scene it’s really Bryan who is doing the directing there. He did a fantastic job.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:59 am

That baby deserves an emmy. The scene when skylar is trying to get her from walt in the car she starts crying at just the right moment, too.

howard · Post by **howard** » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:53 am

I meant to post that. Director deserves the Emmy, imo. And, there was a classic SNL skit around the idea of 'stunt baby'. I cannot find video, just this link to a script/transcript: http://snltranscripts.jt.org/77/77fstunt.phtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:50 pm

I just got goosebumps reading that. That's incredible. Utterly amazing. The right moment in the right scene of the right TV series and that happens organically? Serendipity and then some.

(Now I've been watching Dexter when I haven't been watching Breaking Bad. Coincidentally, last week's episode featured one of the worst scenes in the history of the show. It's not even close. This is also the farewell season. That was also the pen-penultimate episode. The scene also featured the child of the main character. But watch. Ridiculousness. Also, that scene is a microcosm of the season much like that "mama mama" scene for this one's.)

Post by **brian** » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:07 pm

Maybe worth noting that the title of this latest episode -- "Ozymandias" is a poem written by Shelley about the downfall of kings.

I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed:
And on the pedestal these words appear:
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.