The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

[sancarlos]

I wouldn't put it past Fredo to attempt a false flag attack if he's trailing in October 2020.

Could happen any day he feels threatened or insecure.

[P.D.X.]

Can't wait to see how they fuck it up.

[degenerasian]

i stated above, I'm not sure immigration/DACA is a true right/left issue.

Jeez, it is completely a left-right issue. The right feels like their white nation is darkening and wants to do everything to stop that, including kicking out and keeping out people who will darken it further. The left feels sympathy toward the dark folks and/or likes the idea of a diverse nation.

Immigration effects everyone. There are white DACA recipients. But immigration is more than just DACA. Should Democrats be fighting for family reunification? That now brings legal immigrants into play. What about all those rich investor immigrants who put up a million dollars to get in (mostly Chinese). What if they now can no longer sponsor their family members because of the concessions given to save the Dreamers. That's not a classic leftist position to take. I believe that in socialist philosophy it is argued that undocumented immigrants benefits capital and are exploited (paying under the table for example).

[Joe K]

What percentage of voters would choose “R with Russia’s assistance” over D in an election?

25 percent. Maybe.

(And even that's a ridiculous number, but that's where we are right now as a country. Like Bengal said, the GOP has taken four decades of indoctrinating their voters that theirs is the only vision of America that counts. It's less a political party than a cult at this point, but even people in cults can be deprogrammed.

I think it’s way higher than 25%. Probably in the range of 40-45%. A lot of the Russia allegations were out there before the election — I recall Clinton bringing up Putin quite a bit during the debates. I honestly think that a substantial majority of Trump voters, even if confronted with unequivocal evidence of collusion with Russia, would just say, “good for Russia.” That’s the nature of an ultra-polarized two-party system. (Heck, we’d all probably vote for Trump’s 2020 opponent even if he or she got caught colluding with China or Mexico or some other country that doesn’t like Trump.)

[Steve of phpBB]

No discussion about this nothingburger of a memo?

Apparently one of those nutjob Congressmen explicitly accused Comey, McCabe, Rosenstein and Sally Yates of treason.

He says the FBI knowingly took false information from the DNC and used it to smear the Trump campaign.

(1) If they are using it to smear a campaign, how could that be treason?

(2) If the FBI were using the dossier to smear the Trump campaign, why didn't the FBI say anything about it during the election? LIke they did with those massively important Hillary emails on Huma Abedin's laptop ten days before election day.

(3) Hell, if the DNC commissioned the dossier to get dirt to use against Trump during the campaign, why the hell didn't the DNC ever release any of the information?

[Brontoburglar]

No discussion about this nothingburger of a memo?

Apparently one of those nutjob Congressmen explicitly accused Comey, McCabe, Rosenstein and Sally Yates of treason.

He says the FBI knowingly took false information from the DNC and used it to smear the Trump campaign.

(1) If they are using it to smear a campaign, how could that be treason?

(2) If the FBI were using the dossier to smear the Trump campaign, why didn't the FBI say anything about it during the election? LIke they did with those massively important Hillary emails on Huma Abedin's laptop ten days before election day.

(3) Hell, if the DNC commissioned the dossier to get dirt to use against Trump during the campaign, why the hell didn't the DNC ever release any of the information?

it's the same guy who wanted ICE to check IDs and detain/deport DACA recipients at the SOTU

[Steve of phpBB]

Immigration effects everyone. There are white DACA recipients.

Good lord, I hope you are just naive. There are also while SNAP recipients, but "welfare" is the most race-tainted left-right topic there is.

[Joe K]

No discussion about this nothingburger of a memo?

(1) If they are using it to smear a campaign, how could that be treason?

(2) If the FBI were using the dossier to smear the Trump campaign, why didn't the FBI say anything about it during the election? LIke they did with those massively important Hillary emails on Huma Abedin's laptop ten days before election day.

(3) Hell, if the DNC commissioned the dossier to get dirt to use against Trump during the campaign, why the hell didn't the DNC ever release any of the information?

(1) Maybe he thinks we’re at war with Britain? Otherwise, beats me.

(2) To this point, it was pretty well known that there was substantial anti-Clinton sentiment within the FBI, particularly from it’s New York office. And I’d bet Trump gets some of his strongest support from law enforcement.

(3) Fusion GPS, which was paid by the DNC’s counsel, did shop the dossier to various news outlets before the election. But no one ran it until Buzzfeed decided to after the election.

[Pruitt]

FUCK I HATE STUPID PEOPLE!

Whether wilfully moronic or unintentionally thick - it's sickening that anyone buys this shit.

[L-Jam3]

The former is much worse. The latter is like blaming someone with a glandular issue for being obese.

[The Sybian]

This says it all. Even Trey fucking Gowdy is saying the memo does nothing to discredit the investigation. So the memo is trashing the October 2016 FISA renewal application on Carter Page, and claims the application was based of the July 2016 communication from Steele to the FBI. Nunes conveniently left off that this was the 7th renewal, and the FISA warrants on Page continued from 2013. They need to apply for rewals every 3 months. So clearly the FBI had enough info to maintain warrants on Page going back to 2013, 3 years before Steele spoke with the FBI, and several years before Page was linked to Trump. Sooooo, how is the FISA warrant for Page proof of anything other than Trump hiring dangerously unqualified and compromised people to work in the White House, campaign and transition team?

[DaveInSeattle]

(3) Hell, if the DNC commissioned the dossier to get dirt to use against Trump during the campaign, why the hell didn't the DNC ever release any of the information?

And why the hell did the dossier originally start with "never trump" Republicans paying for it?

[GoodKarma]

The claim is they did not fund the dossier. The GOP hired Fusion to do research on all GOP candidates (not just Trump). The Dems picked up the contract with Fusion when Trump became the nominee...after which Steele was brought in.

[The Sybian]

https://www.mediamatters.org/video/2018 ... 972/219243


Geraldo and Hannity aren't even pretending to be anything other than propaganda at this point.

Rivera: "Nixon never would have been forced to resign if you existed in your current state back in 1972, '73, '74. It's too bad for Nixon, because nobody like you existed then ... Our prime responsibility now is to unshackle the 45th president of the United States."

Yep, it's the job of the media to clear obstacles preventing the President from doing whatever he wants, unfettered by those nagging journalists asking questions about highly dubious acts of potential treason and blatant attempts to rule with a despotic fist.

Geraldo is right, though. Roger Ailes cooked up the idea of GOP-TV, which became FoxNews, when Nixon wasn't able to control the media. Ailes approached Nixon with the idea, so Nixon could have a media platform working to shape his message for him.

[The Sybian]

The claim is they did not fund the dossier. The GOP hired Fusion to do research on all GOP candidates (not just Trump). The Dems picked up the contract with Fusion when Trump became the nominee...after which Steele was brought in.

I just don't get the logic of this argument. If the Dems paid an investigator to look for dirt, and he found it, why does that matter? It's not like they paid an impartial arbitrator who was supposed to make an unbiased decision, they paid someone to see if dirt existed, and it was so bad, he felt he had to present it to the FBI. Same with the hysteria over anti-Trump investigators on Mueller's team. Whether they hate Trump or not, their job is to find evidence of crimes. If the evidence doesn't exist, they won't find it. Nobody has ever claimed falsified evidence or any malfeasance. Strzok and Lisa Page were investigating, their job is to present evidence of potential crimes, and pass that on to Mueller, who presents it to Congress. I've seen so many interviews where the interviewer asks Trump defenders and GOP Congressmen if they have any reason to believe Strzok or Page falsified evidence, and they always change the topic, and are never pressed and the interviewers never make the point. This is so fucking infuriating, and people are dumb enough to believe this pointless document is a shocking scandal because Fox and complicit Congressmen told them it was shocking. I will be furious if Nunes doesn't get indicted for obstruction.

[Johnnie]

That's why Trey Gowdy isn't seeking re-election. He read this thing well in advance, knew it was nothing, and said "Fuck it, I'm out." Now he can tell all the Benghazi-less truth he wants.

[Johnnie]

I just read the memo.

So it alleges that the FISA warrant and 3 subsequent renewals on Carter Page were bullshit because Christopher Steele had anti Trump sentiments and was being paid by the DNC?

And despite this the leaders in the FBI and DOJ went along with it because, dadgumit, they have anti Trump sentiments too?

Like, that's it? Did I miss anything?

[Johnnie]

I guess I skimmed over this line.

[Johnnie]

This thought popped into my head this morning:

If America is such a great country why are Republicans so willing and focused on selling it out to the Russians?

I want to DM that to the Pod Save America dudes as "an anonymous service member," but ya know, rules about political questions and social media nonsense.

[Pruitt]

Post's Summary - The Nunes memo is a giant, damaging distraction

And Bill Clinton was impeached for charges relating to sexual encounters?

The Nunes memo has turned out to be a giant, damaging distraction. Shortly after its release, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) reminded the country of what is really at stake. “In 2016, the Russian government engaged in an elaborate plot to interfere in an American election and undermine our democracy,” Mr. McCain said. “ The latest attacks on the FBI and Department of Justice serve no American interests — no party’s, no president’s, only [Russian President Vladimir] Putin’s. The American people deserve to know all of the facts surrounding Russia’s ongoing efforts to subvert our democracy, which is why Special Counsel [Robert S.] Mueller’s investigation must proceed unimpeded. Our nation’s elected officials, including the president, must stop looking at this investigation through the warped lens of politics and manufacturing partisan sideshows. If we continue to undermine our own rule of law, we are doing Putin’s job for him.”

How long will Mr. Ryan, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and all the other supposed adults in the GOP watch in complicity as the president and his enablers do “Putin’s job for him”?

[Joe K]

The Nunes memo is obviously just a cheap stunt, and virtually meaningless without release of the full set of facts. But I find the rhetoric that Trump is “doing Putin’s job for him” to be overblown, jingoistic bullshit. As the Tweet I’m posting below points out, the Trump administration has done plenty of things that are clearly not in Russia’s interest — most notably, arming Ukraine. Given the strategic importance of Ukraine to Russia it is virtually inconceivable that Trump would arm anti-Russian forces in Ukraine, a step that Obama resisted, if he were acting out of loyalty to Putin (as opposed to naked self interest).



There are also obvious risks to calling anything outside of the mainstream, or that draws opposition from the American intelligence community, as “Putin’s work.” We’ve already seen this current waive of Russophobia be used to try to discredit leftist movements like Black Lives Matter that are as far from Trumpism as it gets.

[EnochRoot]

The Nunes memo is obviously just a cheap stunt, and virtually meaningless without release of the full set of facts. But I find the rhetoric that Trump is “doing Putin’s job for him” to be overblown, jingoistic bullshit. As the Tweet I’m posting below points out, the Trump administration has done plenty of things that are clearly not in Russia’s interest — most notably, arming Ukraine. Given the strategic importance of Ukraine to Russia it is virtually inconceivable that Trump would arm anti-Russian forces in Ukraine, a step that Obama resisted, if he were acting out of loyalty to Putin (as opposed to naked self interest).



There are also obvious risks to calling anything outside of the mainstream, or that draws opposition from the American intelligence community, as “Putin’s work.” We’ve already seen this current waive of Russophobia be used to try to discredit leftist movements like Black Lives Matter that are as far from Trumpism as it gets.

When somebody says “Trump’s doing Putin’s work for him”, it doesn’t mean Trump’s a mole forking over State secrets, or a plant that only aligns US interests with Russia’s. It means that Trump’s self-interested narcissism, combined with things like Russian social media ad purchases and bots targeting the movements like Black Lives Matter, Blue Lives Matter etc (playing both sides), allowed Russia / Putin to hide in plain sight while fomenting distrust / discord in the American populace. The narcissist he helped put into power furthers the United States’ decline from any moral authority, too.

[EnochRoot]

Yo memo so fake it’s signed by Epstein's mother.

[tennbengal]

What Enoch said. 100%.

[Johnnie]

Why is the head of the CIA hosting Russian spies and why is Trump refusing to enact a widely bipartisan set of sanctions then?

This is the most self evident shit ever. This isn't even a fucking well thought out conspiracy.

Unless Mueller is like "We've followed the money and there's nothing there" then I'll change my opinion.

[Joe K]

Why is the head of the CIA hosting Russian spies and why is Trump refusing to enact a widely bipartisan set of sanctions then?

This is the most self evident shit ever. This isn't even a fucking well thought out conspiracy.

Unless Mueller is like "We've followed the money and there's nothing there" then I'll change my opinion.

The Russian spies report worries me a lot, but for different reasons. I really hope I'm wrong, but I suspect the CIA is consulting with Russia about a possible strike on North Korea. Given Russia's geographic proximity to North Korea and closer economic relations (at least compared to the US), it'd be pretty logical to consult with them in advance of the "bloody nose" strike Trump is reportedly considering.

[Steve of phpBB]

Why is the head of the CIA hosting Russian spies and why is Trump refusing to enact a widely bipartisan set of sanctions then?

This is the most self evident shit ever. This isn't even a fucking well thought out conspiracy.

Unless Mueller is like "We've followed the money and there's nothing there" then I'll change my opinion.

The Russian spies report worries me a lot, but for different reasons. I really hope I'm wrong, but I suspect the CIA is consulting with Russia about a possible strike on North Korea. Given Russia's geographic proximity to North Korea and closer economic relations (at least compared to the US), it'd be pretty logical to consult with them in advance of the "bloody nose" strike Trump is reportedly considering.

If the US was consulting with the Russians about a NK strike, why would they involve three different branches of Russian intelligence instead of the Russian Foreign Ministry?

[Steve of phpBB]

I just read the memo.

So it alleges that the FISA warrant and 3 subsequent renewals on Carter Page were bullshit because Christopher Steele had anti Trump sentiments and was being paid by the DNC?

And despite this the leaders in the FBI and DOJ went along with it because, dadgumit, they have anti Trump sentiments too?

Like, that's it? Did I miss anything?

The memo also discloses that the FBI didn't seek a FISA warrant on Page until after Page left the Trump campaign.

The story about Page's visit to Moscow broke in September 2016, and Page (supposedly) left the campaign then. (I think?) The warrant was sought in October. So "the FBI wiretapped the Trump campaign" is bullshit.

[Johnnie]

Yea, I've been involved in some war planning with North Korea prior to my deployment because that would be a military strike and I'm in the military.

If anything the State Department would be hosting neighboring nations and their respective equivalents because there's going to be a very serious non-combatant evacuation operation going on while the war happens.

If the CIA is involved, we shouldn't know about it. That's spy and intel shit.

[Pruitt]

Nunes didn't read the FISA applications mentioned in memo

Why would he let facts get in the way?

[Brontoburglar]

The Nunes memo is obviously just a cheap stunt, and virtually meaningless without release of the full set of facts. But I find the rhetoric that Trump is “doing Putin’s job for him” to be overblown, jingoistic bullshit. As the Tweet I’m posting below points out, the Trump administration has done plenty of things that are clearly not in Russia’s interest — most notably, arming Ukraine. Given the strategic importance of Ukraine to Russia it is virtually inconceivable that Trump would arm anti-Russian forces in Ukraine, a step that Obama resisted, if he were acting out of loyalty to Putin (as opposed to naked self interest).



There are also obvious risks to calling anything outside of the mainstream, or that draws opposition from the American intelligence community, as “Putin’s work.” We’ve already seen this current waive of Russophobia be used to try to discredit leftist movements like Black Lives Matter that are as far from Trumpism as it gets.

When somebody says “Trump’s doing Putin’s work for him”, it doesn’t mean Trump’s a mole forking over State secrets, or a plant that only aligns US interests with Russia’s. It means that Trump’s self-interested narcissism, combined with things like Russian social media ad purchases and bots targeting the movements like Black Lives Matter, Blue Lives Matter etc (playing both sides), allowed Russia / Putin to hide in plain sight while fomenting distrust / discord in the American populace. The narcissist he helped put into power furthers the United States’ decline from any moral authority, too.

And for as stupid as this whole thing has been, it would be even more stupid if you're openly and transparently doing things that benefit Russian interests while being investigated for collusion.

[DaveInSeattle]

Is there any doubt that Trump/White House was in on the drafting of 'The Memo' from the start?

And the phrase 'Nothing Burger' really needs to be retired.

[Nonlinear FC]

Obama thought the Iraq War was a bad idea and voted accordingly.

Yes, but by 2008 that position was the vast majority position - also, didn't Obama say in a debate or something that he would send forces across the border into Pakistan if it was necessary to hunt terrorists? And didn't McCain criticize him for it? He wasn't exactly a dove.

He was not a fan of NAFTA (at least on the campaign trail). Most importantly, his signature policy issue was providing access to health care to all.

That is true. And he criticized Hillary's plan because it included an insurance mandate. And he promised that he wouldn't tax the middle class to pay for getting health care to all.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it sure seemed to be that Obama was less liberal in 2008 than Hillary or Bernie in 2016, or Elizabeth Warren now.

He basically said he'd go into Pakistan with or without their consent and it go twisted into "I will invade Pakistan." I think we might be having a parallel conversation here. The party was in a different place, obviously, than it is now. The last successful dem at that points was a DLCer that took on Sistah Soulja, welfare, and the unions. Dems go into the wilderness for 8 years and out pops a much more liberal approach. Obama winds up skewing much more to the middle (out of necessity), you have this clusterfuck demonchild in office and the progressive wing is gaining more and more traction.

So, yeah, I'm not arguing that the trend isn't going towards a more liberal approach. I was just saying that Obama was just part of that overall, long-term trend.

[Nonlinear FC]

I wouldn't put it past Fredo to attempt a false flag attack if he's trailing in October 2020.

I'm too lazy to pull up my posts about how Putin rose to absolute power in Russia based on what are pretty clearly false flag bombings of apartment buildings in Moscow.

I absolutely worry we'll see something like this occur at some point in this presidency.

[Pruitt]

Is there any doubt that Trump/White House was in on the drafting of 'The Memo' from the start?

[mister d]

So is their math here "no one is actually going to read the memo, we just have to tell them its valuable and damaging"?

[Gunpowder]

So is their math here "no one is actually going to read the memo, we just have to tell them its valuable and damaging"?

Worked for the Michael Brown autopsy report.

[The Sybian]

I wouldn't put it past Fredo to attempt a false flag attack if he's trailing in October 2020.

I'm too lazy to pull up my posts about how Putin rose to absolute power in Russia based on what are pretty clearly false flag bombings of apartment buildings in Moscow.

I absolutely worry we'll see something like this occur at some point in this presidency.

I'll reverse roles with you on this one. I can't imagine Trump could get anyone in the FBI, CIA or any other agency or military unit to pull off that kind of attack. He has proven he won't protect anyone and has no loyalty or respect for any agency. Despite how horrendous and awful it is to see the President and Party controlling both Houses attack the FBI, I think it's much better than the alternative of having an FBI completely working to support Trump and his interests.

[rass]

Ummmm... Is this afternoon bad?

[Rex]

It's gone back up a bit now. Trump must have taken it over.