MSU Debacle - Hey, PSU, Hold My Beer
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MSU Debacle - Hey, PSU, Hold My Beer
This whole thing has been discussed across multiple threads, so I thought I'd drop a thread on the board as thing continues to unfold. I know it's a little late, but as it starts to fade from national conscious I wanted a place to drop things as they develop.
Brian Cook at mgoblog doing some interesting introspection on how MI stacks up.
Yesterday - http://mgoblog.com/content/looking-inte ... ermath-msu
Today - http://mgoblog.com/content/looking-inte ... and-errata
Appointing Engler is a fucking joke, as is the person being asked to "independently" investigate this whole mess. They are just digging themselves in deeper, which while not surprising, is only a short-term solution. When the lawsuits start rolling in, and discovery starts to kick in, these people are fucked.
Brian Cook at mgoblog doing some interesting introspection on how MI stacks up.
Yesterday - http://mgoblog.com/content/looking-inte ... ermath-msu
Today - http://mgoblog.com/content/looking-inte ... and-errata
Appointing Engler is a fucking joke, as is the person being asked to "independently" investigate this whole mess. They are just digging themselves in deeper, which while not surprising, is only a short-term solution. When the lawsuits start rolling in, and discovery starts to kick in, these people are fucked.
You can lead a horse to fish, but you can't fish out a horse.
Re: MSU Debacle - Hey, PSU, Hold My Beer
I think it's cute that Dantonio thinks he's going to keep his job.
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Re: MSU Debacle - Hey, PSU, Hold My Beer
If only the officers would have tripped or had slow reactions.
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Re: MSU Debacle - Hey, PSU, Hold My Beer
Jesus. Those cops and guards must have felt terrible having to do their job.
Maybe they can get a bounty together and get word to the prisoners that this piece of shit is going to be living with for the rest of his life.
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Re: MSU Debacle - Hey, PSU, Hold My Beer
I turn into the grossest kind of MMA (or Eagles!!!) fan when it comes to stuff like this. There's nothing I want more than a video of a dad getting through and beating Nassar to the bloodiest, deadest pulp ever.
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Re: MSU Debacle - Hey, PSU, Hold My Beer
You know what you need? A lyrical sucker punch to the face.
Re: MSU Debacle - Hey, PSU, Hold My Beer
Holy shit to that last part (well, especially that last part). Nassar was recording his assaults and sharing them??The affidavit also says that investigators found nude photos and pornographic videos on Strampel’s work computer, as well as a video of Nassar giving “treatment” to a young patient.
Totally Kafkaesque
Re: MSU Debacle - Hey, PSU, Hold My Beer
So I guess MSU didn't learn from the PSU scandal, or from the way it was addressed by PSU?
Re: MSU Debacle - Hey, PSU, Hold My Beer
Sure they did. They learned that the worst thing that will happen is the NCAA will give you a slap on the wrist.
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Re: MSU Debacle - Hey, PSU, Hold My Beer
This is where I'd normally say something like I feel sorry for whomever is in charge of PR for Michigan State, except that it's a friend of mine from college so I've expressed that opinion in person (well, over the computer). She'll be ready for hellfire whatever her next job after this is though.
ETA: She only started a couple or three weeks ago, so she's just basically in full-on firefighting mode now. She's trusting that the people in charge are actually competent and repentant, but I'm not so sure about either of those at this point, but we'll see.
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Re: MSU Debacle - Hey, PSU, Hold My Beer
Long read, but worth a read from Deadspin.
And in case you think the author might have been sensationalizing a little bit, read the comments from her tweet promoting the piece.
(This will be one of the rare times when it is probably instructive or useful to read the comments.)
And in case you think the author might have been sensationalizing a little bit, read the comments from her tweet promoting the piece.
(This will be one of the rare times when it is probably instructive or useful to read the comments.)
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Re: MSU Debacle - Hey, PSU, Hold My Beer
Yep.
Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with people?I grew up in Nebraska, and I can guarantee you that if anything like the Larry Nassar scandal happened there, it would only result in the highest donation year ever for the football team. And ain’t that fucking depressing.
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Re: MSU Debacle - Hey, PSU, Hold My Beer
Dammit. Should have checked here first. Just bumped the Deadspin thread. It's a tremendous piece.brian wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:30 pm Long read, but worth a read from Deadspin.
And in case you think the author might have been sensationalizing a little bit, read the comments from her tweet promoting the piece.
(This will be one of the rare times when it is probably instructive or useful to read the comments.)
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Re: MSU Debacle - Hey, PSU, Hold My Beer
You know what you need? A lyrical sucker punch to the face.
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Re: MSU Debacle - Hey, PSU, Hold My Beer
From the Lansing State Journal...A_B wrote: ↑Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:19 pm Burn it down
https://deadspin.com/msu-board-meeting- ... 1825245090
Burn it down indeed.MSU spokesperson Emily Guerrant was in the meeting with Engler. In a conversation with Lisa Lorincz following the board meeting Friday morning, Guerrant said her interpretation had been that Engler wasn't offering a settlement, but engaging in a “philosophical discussion” about what amount would be appropriate.
Guerrant told the Lansing State Journal that "an official settlement was not on the table."
Guerrant said Engler would not be available to media for comment immediately following the meeting but promised that MSU's communications office would respond to emailed questions later today.
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Re: MSU Debacle - Hey, PSU, Hold My Beer
https://deadspin.com/reports-michigan-s ... -182607474
I honestly don't know how someone could send their kid there at this point. I'm spending my money so you can pay off a pedophile rapist that you knew was being rapey and did nothing about?
This isn't a rivalry thing*, I just wouldn't be able to stomach that scenario, at all.
(My kids had three "I'm not paying your tuition if you go there" schools - MSU, PSU and OSU. I mean, I infected my kids early and they never even considered those schools, but still...)
I honestly don't know how someone could send their kid there at this point. I'm spending my money so you can pay off a pedophile rapist that you knew was being rapey and did nothing about?
This isn't a rivalry thing*, I just wouldn't be able to stomach that scenario, at all.
(My kids had three "I'm not paying your tuition if you go there" schools - MSU, PSU and OSU. I mean, I infected my kids early and they never even considered those schools, but still...)
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Re: MSU Debacle - Hey, PSU, Hold My Beer
And some of the money's coming out of "state aid." Am I correct in assuming that this is tax money?Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 12:35 pm https://deadspin.com/reports-michigan-s ... -182607474
I honestly don't know how someone could send their kid there at this point. I'm spending my money so you can pay off a pedophile rapist that you knew was being rapey and did nothing about?
This isn't a rivalry thing*, I just wouldn't be able to stomach that scenario, at all.
(My kids had three "I'm not paying your tuition if you go there" schools - MSU, PSU and OSU. I mean, I infected my kids early and they never even considered those schools, but still...)
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Re: MSU Debacle - Hey, PSU, Hold My Beer
Yeah, according to the aggregater (deadspin in this case), the money is coming from tuition and tax payer money.
I just can't believe people are going to be OK with this. I can't believe the board is going to survive.
I just can't believe people are going to be OK with this. I can't believe the board is going to survive.
You can lead a horse to fish, but you can't fish out a horse.
Re: MSU Debacle - Hey, PSU, Hold My Beer
MSU fans are circling the wagons every bit as much as PSU fans did. The current students are the ones who should be shutting down the university protesting the money coming from tuition increases but they timed this carefully to happen right after commencement hoping that everyone will forget come September. Say what you will about Engler, but he's a sneaky, crafty motherfucker.Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 12:48 pm Yeah, according to the aggregater (deadspin in this case), the money is coming from tuition and tax payer money.
I just can't believe people are going to be OK with this. I can't believe the board is going to survive.
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Re: MSU Debacle - Hey, PSU, Hold My Beer
They also timed it to be too late for people accepting spots in the next freshman class to re-think their decision and go somewhere else.
Again, no fucking way am I sending my kid to a school where part of my tuition is going to this settlement.
Fuck that all the ways it can be fucked and then figure out some new ways to fuck it after we've all fucking thought about it for a fucking few minutes.
ETA - I texted my radio buddy and he says applications are drying up and there is a pretty big sense of outrage. Just not within the mouthbreathing MSU fan base.
Again, no fucking way am I sending my kid to a school where part of my tuition is going to this settlement.
Fuck that all the ways it can be fucked and then figure out some new ways to fuck it after we've all fucking thought about it for a fucking few minutes.
ETA - I texted my radio buddy and he says applications are drying up and there is a pretty big sense of outrage. Just not within the mouthbreathing MSU fan base.
You can lead a horse to fish, but you can't fish out a horse.
Re: MSU Debacle - Hey, PSU, Hold My Beer
Yeah, to be clear and fair the current MSU students have been pretty outspoken and angry about what a shitshow this has been, is currently and will apparently continue to be. They've been protesting and from all accounts seem to have the backs of the victims and not the university. The timing of this announcement was specifically intended to blunt their justified anger at having to foot the bill for the administration's fuckups.Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 1:24 pm They also timed it to be too late for people accepting spots in the next freshman class to re-think their decision and go somewhere else.
Again, no fucking way am I sending my kid to a school where part of my tuition is going to this settlement.
Fuck that all the ways it can be fucked and then figure out some new ways to fuck it after we've all fucking thought about it for a fucking few minutes.
ETA - I texted my radio buddy and he says applications are drying up and there is a pretty big sense of outrage. Just not within the mouthbreathing MSU fan base.
But the trustees of MSU are voted on statewide* (I know you know that, but not sure too many other people do) and I'm more than a little dubious they'll end up having to pay a price for their role in this. I'll be happy to be wrong.
* - In a partisan election, no less. To add another level of asshattery to this whole thing you'll see this somehow twisted to serve partisan agendas instead of what is best for the university going forward.
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Re: MSU Debacle - Hey, PSU, Hold My Beer
Clarification: Engler wants to pay with tuition and state aid. Lawmakers saying fuck nah.
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Re: MSU Debacle - Hey, PSU, Hold My Beer
From a public school what other options are there for paying a settlement? Endowment? That would basically be paying with tuition. Cut services? That is basically paying with tuition and tax payer money. Really the only way out is to create a new revenue source and fund the settlement with a portion of the proceeds. Now what new tax revenue source just got put in play this week....hmmm. It would be a tax, but a voluntary one.
Either that or figure out how to generate $5000/seat at the big house...Beer sales, naming rights
Either that or figure out how to generate $5000/seat at the big house...Beer sales, naming rights
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Re: MSU Debacle - Hey, PSU, Hold My Beer
First, please don't call that pile of shit in East Lansing "the big house." Fucking hell, man.wlu_lax6 wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 3:36 pm From a public school what other options are there for paying a settlement? Endowment? That would basically be paying with tuition. Cut services? That is basically paying with tuition and tax payer money. Really the only way out is to create a new revenue source and fund the settlement with a portion of the proceeds. Now what new tax revenue source just got put in play this week....hmmm. It would be a tax, but a voluntary one.
Either that or figure out how to generate $5000/seat at the big house...Beer sales, naming rights
I understand your point about the endowment, most people do not get that taking 500M out of there MIGHT impact tuition. But with an endowment that large, and the typical 5 percent in allowed expenditures, you're talking about $150M... and a decent chunk of that isn't going to be tied up in profer chairs and other shit. You can't tell me they have 0 dollars in discretionary funding they can't use.
You can lead a horse to fish, but you can't fish out a horse.
Re: MSU Debacle - Hey, PSU, Hold My Beer
Oh no I meant the Big House as I figure MU sports will contribute because of their draw in the fall.Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 3:48 pmFirst, please don't call that pile of shit in East Lansing "the big house." Fucking hell, man.wlu_lax6 wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 3:36 pm From a public school what other options are there for paying a settlement? Endowment? That would basically be paying with tuition. Cut services? That is basically paying with tuition and tax payer money. Really the only way out is to create a new revenue source and fund the settlement with a portion of the proceeds. Now what new tax revenue source just got put in play this week....hmmm. It would be a tax, but a voluntary one.
Either that or figure out how to generate $5000/seat at the big house...Beer sales, naming rights
I understand your point about the endowment, most people do not get that taking 500M out of there MIGHT impact tuition. But with an endowment that large, and the typical 5 percent in allowed expenditures, you're talking about $150M... and a decent chunk of that isn't going to be tied up in profer chairs and other shit. You can't tell me they have 0 dollars in discretionary funding they can't use.
Re: MSU Debacle - Hey, PSU, Hold My Beer
PSU paid their settlement out of athletics. A loan covered most of it initially and then it just became a line item in a budget. It was a much smaller amount and essentially ended all the lawsuits. MSU's is 5x what PSU ended up paying and may not have the same options.
Size does come into play. PSU's operating budget is over $5B a year while MSU is less than $1B. Athletics budgets are similar. around $150M for PSU and $120M for MSU.
Size does come into play. PSU's operating budget is over $5B a year while MSU is less than $1B. Athletics budgets are similar. around $150M for PSU and $120M for MSU.
Re: MSU Debacle - Hey, PSU, Hold My Beer
On a more positive note, MSU's club lacrosse team won the MCLA division 1 championship this week (virtual varsity for schools that don't have NCAA/NAII programs), and have a pretty good uniform
Re: MSU Debacle - Hey, PSU, Hold My Beer
Wow, I didn't realize club lacrosse had gotten so organized. Wash U is in a conference too! And they have nice, fancy uniforms, a published roster, etc. Back when I played, we got a little money from the school, but otherwise pretty much ran the program ourselves, including player-coaches.
Totally Kafkaesque
Re: MSU Debacle - Hey, PSU, Hold My Beer
MCLA is a no joke organization. They basically self organize under NCAA rules (eligibility too). These schools can't have an NCAA team. Throw a 32 team tournament (d1 and d2 16 teams each) each year that you have to qualify for, etc. Lots of big schools from the west have had success in this league (BYU, Arizona State,Va Tech, Cal, Colorado State). Several of these teams have migrated up to NCAA Varsity status (example: Utah next year)Shirley wrote: ↑Thu May 17, 2018 11:57 am Wow, I didn't realize club lacrosse had gotten so organized. Wash U is in a conference too! And they have nice, fancy uniforms, a published roster, etc. Back when I played, we got a little money from the school, but otherwise pretty much ran the program ourselves, including player-coaches.
The other college club league,NCLL, is more like you remember (but still more organized than when you were in school).
Re: MSU Debacle - Hey, PSU, Hold My Beer
The next-door kid's father just posted on fb that he made the MCLA All-America team honorable mention (UC-Santa Barbara). So, apparently there is an all-american team for club lacrosse.wlu_lax6 wrote: ↑Thu May 17, 2018 12:37 pmMCLA is a no joke organization. They basically self organize under NCAA rules (eligibility too). These schools can't have an NCAA team. Throw a 32 team tournament (d1 and d2 16 teams each) each year that you have to qualify for, etc. Lots of big schools from the west have had success in this league (BYU, Arizona State,Va Tech, Cal, Colorado State). Several of these teams have migrated up to NCAA Varsity status (example: Utah next year)Shirley wrote: ↑Thu May 17, 2018 11:57 am Wow, I didn't realize club lacrosse had gotten so organized. Wash U is in a conference too! And they have nice, fancy uniforms, a published roster, etc. Back when I played, we got a little money from the school, but otherwise pretty much ran the program ourselves, including player-coaches.
The other college club league,NCLL, is more like you remember (but still more organized than when you were in school).
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Re: MSU Debacle - Hey, PSU, Hold My Beer
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/11/spor ... -time.html
Michigan came out of the MCLA... First in what is a growing trend of taking solid club teams that operate like varsity sports and turning them into D1 programs.
With that said, MI was a BEAST in the MCLA, ripping off 50 wins in a row at one point and winning 3 national titles before moving up. They are just now turning into a competitive D1 program. (they joined the D1 ranks in 2012)
Same thing happened with PSU and hockey. They got the shit kicked out of themselves for a bunch of years, now they are very nasty squad.
Michigan came out of the MCLA... First in what is a growing trend of taking solid club teams that operate like varsity sports and turning them into D1 programs.
With that said, MI was a BEAST in the MCLA, ripping off 50 wins in a row at one point and winning 3 national titles before moving up. They are just now turning into a competitive D1 program. (they joined the D1 ranks in 2012)
Same thing happened with PSU and hockey. They got the shit kicked out of themselves for a bunch of years, now they are very nasty squad.
You can lead a horse to fish, but you can't fish out a horse.
Re: MSU Debacle - Hey, PSU, Hold My Beer
As long as we are bragging about alma maters in MCLA lacrosse - Colorado State has been national champions five times in the last 20 years, most recently in 2012 and 2013.Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Thu May 17, 2018 12:59 pm https://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/11/spor ... -time.html
Michigan came out of the MCLA... First in what is a growing trend of taking solid club teams that operate like varsity sports and turning them into D1 programs.
With that said, MI was a BEAST in the MCLA, ripping off 50 wins in a row at one point and winning 3 national titles before moving up. They are just now turning into a competitive D1 program. (they joined the D1 ranks in 2012)
Same thing happened with PSU and hockey. They got the shit kicked out of themselves for a bunch of years, now they are very nasty squad.
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Re: MSU Debacle - Hey, PSU, Hold My Beer
ADmins, can we get a thread split? I just don't want any of our hardcore lacrosse fans to miss out on this...
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Re: MSU Debacle - Hey, PSU, Hold My Beer
Ohio State debacle?
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Re: MSU Debacle - Hey, PSU, Hold My Beer
"beautiful, with an exotic-yet-familiar facial structure and an arresting gaze."
Re: MSU Debacle - Hey, PSU, Hold My Beer
MSU: still tripping on its own dick. (This is probably small potatoes to anyone other than Spartan alums and the like but it still shows the rampant insensitivity to Nassar's victims and the alumni who are still grappling with the university's role in abetting Nassar.)
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Re: MSU Debacle - Hey, PSU, Hold My Beer
Product of the Program is my new favorite call back.
https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/ ... 423174002/
MSU fires lawyer representing one of the employees (Dean) being sued by victims after he says his client was following orders from MSU lawyers at the time.
https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/ ... 423174002/
MSU fires lawyer representing one of the employees (Dean) being sued by victims after he says his client was following orders from MSU lawyers at the time.
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Re: MSU Debacle - Hey, PSU, Hold My Beer
Just a reminder... Nassar is going to single-handedly ruin USA Gymnastics.
https://www.thecut.com/2018/11/how-did- ... -long.html
The fact that much less is going to befall MSU is pretty stunning. We're talking about decades of abuse, and here's what people (apparently) don't understand. Dozens of women reported this stuff to MSU officials and local law enforcement over the years. The first reported case to an MSU gymnastic coach was by 2 16 year olds.. in 1997.
Fuck all of them.
https://www.thecut.com/2018/11/how-did- ... -long.html
The fact that much less is going to befall MSU is pretty stunning. We're talking about decades of abuse, and here's what people (apparently) don't understand. Dozens of women reported this stuff to MSU officials and local law enforcement over the years. The first reported case to an MSU gymnastic coach was by 2 16 year olds.. in 1997.
Fuck all of them.
You can lead a horse to fish, but you can't fish out a horse.
Re: MSU Debacle - Hey, PSU, Hold My Beer
It's maybe just as well I'm not in charge of the NCAA because I would have shut down MSU's entire athletics department for at least two or three years. I can't believe they're completely skating on this and some football programs get probation because coaches give their poor as fuck athletes some money.
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