The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
And I do apologize, to the extent I need to. I do have some frustration that the left gets bogged down on stupid shit in terms of how to talk about what has happened. I am more worried about whether the law even applies to Trump et al, than finding the exact correct legal charge for what he has done. To me, he has betrayed the country. As has McConnell and Ryan, and a lot more. Literal betrayal. Whether that is technically treason or not, I don't give a shit. But, in these parts, which feels like my internet "home" amongst friends, I don't feel like I really need to be all that exact when talking about what Trump has done. To me, it's treason. Were I prosecuting this, I would probably not use that word. But I am not prosecuting it. I am simply expressing what I feel it in effect is.
Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
I'm pretty sure people in Swamp calling it treason is going to make a HUGE difference in how this plays out.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
Fair. I get that frustration. We're all worried and pissed and frustrated and I know if we were sitting over a beer this would've been a 30 second "i get where you're coming from" aside.tennbengal wrote: ↑Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:39 am And I do apologize, to the extent I need to. I do have some frustration that the left gets bogged down on stupid shit in terms of how to talk about what has happened. I am more worried about whether the law even applies to Trump et al, than finding the exact correct legal charge for what he has done. To me, he has betrayed the country. As has McConnell and Ryan, and a lot more. Literal betrayal. Whether that is technically treason or not, I don't give a shit. But, in these parts, which feels like my internet "home" amongst friends, I don't feel like I really need to be all that exact when talking about what Trump has done. To me, it's treason. Were I prosecuting this, I would probably not use that word. But I am not prosecuting it. I am simply expressing what I feel it in effect is.
I wasn't trying to be pedantic.. Maybe just in my head more "what is going to actually stick to these fuckers."
We are 1000 percent on the same page with all that you posted.
Betrayal is a great word. Perfect, really.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
Everyone is arguing past each other here, and I think we are all coming from the same point of view on the big picture. While typing treason on the Swamp isn't going to matter, I see treason being used all the time in the MSM and by Dems in Congress, and that does matter. I agree with Nonlinear's point. I understand why TB and others see it as pedantic, but Trump has a very real defence that, even assuming all the worst of what we think he may have done actually happened, it isn't technically treason, and he and his mouthpieces can make a winning argument there. Much like how the MSM latched on to the term "collusion." "Collusion" isn't technically a crime, so Trump supporters who might be swayable can hear legal experts confirm "collusion" isn't a crime, and shut down on hearing facts proving conspiracy to commit actual crimes.
So yes, Trump is a treasonous fucker in the colloquial meaning, but he has not committed a crime of treason.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
Why does it matter? Republicans used that word towards Obama and Hillary quite a bit. Seems to have not really affected their standing one single bit.The Sybian wrote: ↑Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:30 amEveryone is arguing past each other here, and I think we are all coming from the same point of view on the big picture. While typing treason on the Swamp isn't going to matter, I see treason being used all the time in the MSM and by Dems in Congress, and that does matter. I agree with Nonlinear's point. I understand why TB and others see it as pedantic, but Trump has a very real defence that, even assuming all the worst of what we think he may have done actually happened, it isn't technically treason, and he and his mouthpieces can make a winning argument there. Much like how the MSM latched on to the term "collusion." "Collusion" isn't technically a crime, so Trump supporters who might be swayable can hear legal experts confirm "collusion" isn't a crime, and shut down on hearing facts proving conspiracy to commit actual crimes.
So yes, Trump is a treasonous fucker in the colloquial meaning, but he has not committed a crime of treason.
If using the word treason gets more of those who hate this administration to vote, then so be it.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
Which is why I've sat most of this out. Bottom line is Trump & and his administration are terrible people that operate like the mafia. It's a sham and a shame that he's in office. There isn't much more to add.The Sybian wrote: ↑Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:30 amEveryone is arguing past each other here, and I think we are all coming from the same point of view on the big picture. While typing treason on the Swamp isn't going to matter, I see treason being used all the time in the MSM and by Dems in Congress, and that does matter. I agree with Nonlinear's point. I understand why TB and others see it as pedantic, but Trump has a very real defence that, even assuming all the worst of what we think he may have done actually happened, it isn't technically treason, and he and his mouthpieces can make a winning argument there. Much like how the MSM latched on to the term "collusion." "Collusion" isn't technically a crime, so Trump supporters who might be swayable can hear legal experts confirm "collusion" isn't a crime, and shut down on hearing facts proving conspiracy to commit actual crimes.
So yes, Trump is a treasonous fucker in the colloquial meaning, but he has not committed a crime of treason.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
I think this thread is more proof of why Republicans can continue to win elections despite how terribly they govern and how much they lie. Here are a group of people left-of-center arguing whether the word treason should be used to describe people allegedely working with a foreign government to influence an election. Especially during an unprecedentedly shitty presidency when Republicans just run with any and all conspiracy theories, calling democrats soclialists who embolden terrorists and run pedophile rings out of pizza parlors. How about we take a fucking page from their playbook and try to burn the whole thing down too.GoodKarma wrote: ↑Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:47 amWhich is why I've sat most of this out. Bottom line is Trump & and his administration are terrible people that operate like the mafia. It's a sham and a shame that he's in office. There isn't much more to add.The Sybian wrote: ↑Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:30 amEveryone is arguing past each other here, and I think we are all coming from the same point of view on the big picture. While typing treason on the Swamp isn't going to matter, I see treason being used all the time in the MSM and by Dems in Congress, and that does matter. I agree with Nonlinear's point. I understand why TB and others see it as pedantic, but Trump has a very real defence that, even assuming all the worst of what we think he may have done actually happened, it isn't technically treason, and he and his mouthpieces can make a winning argument there. Much like how the MSM latched on to the term "collusion." "Collusion" isn't technically a crime, so Trump supporters who might be swayable can hear legal experts confirm "collusion" isn't a crime, and shut down on hearing facts proving conspiracy to commit actual crimes.
So yes, Trump is a treasonous fucker in the colloquial meaning, but he has not committed a crime of treason.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
From herePreviously undisclosed evidence in the possession of Special Counsel Robert Mueller—including highly confidential White House records and testimony by some of President Trump’s own top aides—provides some of the strongest evidence to date implicating the president of the United States in an obstruction of justice. Several people who have reviewed a portion of this evidence say that, based on what they know, they believe it is now all but inevitable that the special counsel will complete a confidential report presenting evidence that President Trump violated the law. Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, who oversees the special counsel’s work, would then decide on turning over that report to Congress for the House of Representatives to consider whether to instigate impeachment proceedings.
Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
Nominate Devin Nunes for the Nobel Peace Prize, D.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
Because they are liberal. One cannot claim to be liberal and be the champion of government being on your side and then turn around and burn the whole thing down. Conservatives can do this because they are anti-government and actually want to burn the whole thing down without really doing it. It's a battle Liberals cannot win ideologically.Giff wrote: ↑Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:52 amI think this thread is more proof of why Republicans can continue to win elections despite how terribly they govern and how much they lie. Here are a group of people left-of-center arguing whether the word treason should be used to describe people allegedely working with a foreign government to influence an election. Especially during an unprecedentedly shitty presidency when Republicans just run with any and all conspiracy theories, calling democrats soclialists who embolden terrorists and run pedophile rings out of pizza parlors. How about we take a fucking page from their playbook and try to burn the whole thing down too.GoodKarma wrote: ↑Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:47 amWhich is why I've sat most of this out. Bottom line is Trump & and his administration are terrible people that operate like the mafia. It's a sham and a shame that he's in office. There isn't much more to add.The Sybian wrote: ↑Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:30 amEveryone is arguing past each other here, and I think we are all coming from the same point of view on the big picture. While typing treason on the Swamp isn't going to matter, I see treason being used all the time in the MSM and by Dems in Congress, and that does matter. I agree with Nonlinear's point. I understand why TB and others see it as pedantic, but Trump has a very real defence that, even assuming all the worst of what we think he may have done actually happened, it isn't technically treason, and he and his mouthpieces can make a winning argument there. Much like how the MSM latched on to the term "collusion." "Collusion" isn't technically a crime, so Trump supporters who might be swayable can hear legal experts confirm "collusion" isn't a crime, and shut down on hearing facts proving conspiracy to commit actual crimes.
So yes, Trump is a treasonous fucker in the colloquial meaning, but he has not committed a crime of treason.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
Well, can we all agree Trump is clearly attempting to obstruct justice?Giff wrote: ↑Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:52 amI think this thread is more proof of why Republicans can continue to win elections despite how terribly they govern and how much they lie. Here are a group of people left-of-center arguing whether the word treason should be used to describe people allegedely working with a foreign government to influence an election. Especially during an unprecedentedly shitty presidency when Republicans just run with any and all conspiracy theories, calling democrats soclialists who embolden terrorists and run pedophile rings out of pizza parlors. How about we take a fucking page from their playbook and try to burn the whole thing down too.GoodKarma wrote: ↑Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:47 amWhich is why I've sat most of this out. Bottom line is Trump & and his administration are terrible people that operate like the mafia. It's a sham and a shame that he's in office. There isn't much more to add.The Sybian wrote: ↑Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:30 amEveryone is arguing past each other here, and I think we are all coming from the same point of view on the big picture. While typing treason on the Swamp isn't going to matter, I see treason being used all the time in the MSM and by Dems in Congress, and that does matter. I agree with Nonlinear's point. I understand why TB and others see it as pedantic, but Trump has a very real defence that, even assuming all the worst of what we think he may have done actually happened, it isn't technically treason, and he and his mouthpieces can make a winning argument there. Much like how the MSM latched on to the term "collusion." "Collusion" isn't technically a crime, so Trump supporters who might be swayable can hear legal experts confirm "collusion" isn't a crime, and shut down on hearing facts proving conspiracy to commit actual crimes.
So yes, Trump is a treasonous fucker in the colloquial meaning, but he has not committed a crime of treason.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
He's been doing that. The latest example is today by begging Sessions to end the investigation.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
When the civil war erupts, this QAnon insanity will be one of the matches.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
We seem to be going through a period where (aided by social media) mass hysterias are becoming more and more commonplace. It is truly chilling.tennbengal wrote: ↑Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:08 pm When the civil war erupts, this QAnon insanity will be one of the matches.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
Wait, does Trump not realize that Sessions works for him?..This is a terrible situation and Attorney General Jeff Sessions should stop this Rigged Witch Hunt right now, before it continues to stain our country any further. Bob Mueller is totally conflicted, and his 17 Angry Democrats that are doing his dirty work are a disgrace to USA!
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
An honest to God cult of personality - formed around a failed steak salesman.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
Of course he knows Sessions works for him AND that he's recused himself.
If you want to ascribe "brilliance" to Trump, look for how many times he does stuff like this: Stomp his feet and ask for what even the dumbest fucking moron knows simply isn't possible. Yet, his fucking moron followers don't grasp simple facts, so they just say "see, look how he's carrying a big stick. And the Washington Fat Cats won't listen!"
Remember, he's been shitting on Sessions to his base for over a year now. Despite the fact that Sessions has very little to do with any of this now.
If you want to ascribe "brilliance" to Trump, look for how many times he does stuff like this: Stomp his feet and ask for what even the dumbest fucking moron knows simply isn't possible. Yet, his fucking moron followers don't grasp simple facts, so they just say "see, look how he's carrying a big stick. And the Washington Fat Cats won't listen!"
Remember, he's been shitting on Sessions to his base for over a year now. Despite the fact that Sessions has very little to do with any of this now.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
Or he puts it on Twitter because he is a petulant whiny little bitch with no self control or understanding of how anything works.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
I think it's both.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
Twitter usage is the only aspect I think people underrate him and his intentions.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
Agree 100 percent. It's all very transparent if you step back and stop being so ridiculously "outraged" by it all.
He has a team feeding him stuff. It's all VERY calculated. He/they are trying to drive the daily media cycle and/or feed raw meat to his base.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
I think this is true for a lot of his Tweets, he always writes crazy headline grabbing things to distract from a scandal or failure; but I also think some of the Friday night and 3:00am Tweets are made with no thought, and are emotional outbursts on the level of a 5 year old. I put stock in the theory that in his first 6 months, Ivanka kept him somewhat on track, but once she disappeared for Shabbat, his Friday evening self-inflicted Twitter wounds went out. As much as he is able to bury bad stories with his Tweets, he also steps on his wins by Tweeting stupid shit.Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:25 amAgree 100 percent. It's all very transparent if you step back and stop being so ridiculously "outraged" by it all.
He has a team feeding him stuff. It's all VERY calculated. He/they are trying to drive the daily media cycle and/or feed raw meat to his base.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
Yeah, no, that's a good clarification and it's what makes trying to define or characterize his whole.... whatever the fuck is going on... very difficult. I think there are a lot of very calculated tweets, and you are right, there are the ones he fires off that completely undermine the "party line" comments he just made 12 hours earlier, or that are just him responding directly to the tape-delayed segment of CNN he wants to rant about.The Sybian wrote: ↑Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:34 amI think this is true for a lot of his Tweets, he always writes crazy headline grabbing things to distract from a scandal or failure; but I also think some of the Friday night and 3:00am Tweets are made with no thought, and are emotional outbursts on the level of a 5 year old. I put stock in the theory that in his first 6 months, Ivanka kept him somewhat on track, but once she disappeared for Shabbat, his Friday evening self-inflicted Twitter wounds went out. As much as he is able to bury bad stories with his Tweets, he also steps on his wins by Tweeting stupid shit.Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:25 amAgree 100 percent. It's all very transparent if you step back and stop being so ridiculously "outraged" by it all.
He has a team feeding him stuff. It's all VERY calculated. He/they are trying to drive the daily media cycle and/or feed raw meat to his base.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
So when Trump does something like he did yesterday...where he admits that everything he said about the Trump Tower meeting between Jr, Jared, and Manafort previously was a lie, and he just goes ahead and admits to collusion....do you think his lawyers just throw up their hands and say 'God Damn stupid mf-er'?
And what about his boot-licking toadies, such as Hannity? Do they just roll with it, or do they sit back and think 'Ok....how am I going to spin this on Monday's show?'
And what about his boot-licking toadies, such as Hannity? Do they just roll with it, or do they sit back and think 'Ok....how am I going to spin this on Monday's show?'
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
I really think someone in there latched onto "collusion isn't a crime" and they're trying to play that up as much as possible. Seems to be a pretty large amount of evidence that this happened, so they can't lie about it bald faced. So some ad wizard in there came up with that.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
If you repeatedly say its not a crime, when the republican congress doesn't act people can say its because there was nothing to act on, not because they were equally corrupt.
Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
It’s why there are “I’d rather be a Russian than a Democrat” t-shirts being made.DaveInSeattle wrote: ↑Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:58 pm So when Trump does something like he did yesterday...where he admits that everything he said about the Trump Tower meeting between Jr, Jared, and Manafort previously was a lie, and he just goes ahead and admits to collusion....do you think his lawyers just throw up their hands and say 'God Damn stupid mf-er'?
And what about his boot-licking toadies, such as Hannity? Do they just roll with it, or do they sit back and think 'Ok....how am I going to spin this on Monday's show?'
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
Maybe I'm getting old or maybe things are worse: I remember when the worst things that happened in my mid 20's were the Government burned down a cult compound and an intern blew the President. Now half a state is on fire and the President is fucking everybody.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
‘Facts develop’: The Trump team’s new ‘alternative facts’-esque ways to explain its falsehoods
Washington Post wrote:As president, Donald Trump has uttered more than 4,000 falsehoods or misleading statements. And the spokespeople and advisers tasked with squaring Trump's version of reality with actual reality must often contort themselves accordingly. Early in the administration, this meant Kellyanne Conway talking about how the administration had “alternative facts.” Later, it was Sean Spicer explaining that he didn't “knowingly” lie to the American people.
On Sunday, they tried a couple of new tacks: asserting that “facts develop” and saying that the president “misspoke” — while saying something he has said dozens of times.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
His lawyers have been saying equally stupid, and in Rudy's case equally incriminating things. Hannity can just say, "Trump's tweet can't be admission of a crime, because if it was a crime, Trump wouldn't have Tweeted it." Rudy said something like that recently, and it works. Trump's base, and Hannity's target audience believe everything Trump says, no matter what. And when Trump says the exact opposite thing in the next sentence, they believe that, too. Nothing can sway those people.DaveInSeattle wrote: ↑Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:58 pm So when Trump does something like he did yesterday...where he admits that everything he said about the Trump Tower meeting between Jr, Jared, and Manafort previously was a lie, and he just goes ahead and admits to collusion....do you think his lawyers just throw up their hands and say 'God Damn stupid mf-er'?
And what about his boot-licking toadies, such as Hannity? Do they just roll with it, or do they sit back and think 'Ok....how am I going to spin this on Monday's show?'
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
Top Reddit comment an excellent response slogan:EnochRoot wrote: ↑Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:17 pmIt’s why there are “I’d rather be a Russian than a Democrat” t-shirts being made.DaveInSeattle wrote: ↑Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:58 pm So when Trump does something like he did yesterday...where he admits that everything he said about the Trump Tower meeting between Jr, Jared, and Manafort previously was a lie, and he just goes ahead and admits to collusion....do you think his lawyers just throw up their hands and say 'God Damn stupid mf-er'?
And what about his boot-licking toadies, such as Hannity? Do they just roll with it, or do they sit back and think 'Ok....how am I going to spin this on Monday's show?'
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
To quote Rams Fanny:brian wrote: ↑Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:09 am If you thought Tom Price, Betsy DeVos or Scott Pruitt were the biggest grifters in the Trump cabinet, think again.
Watergate wouldn't even make the top ten in this 18 month old administration.Maybe I'm getting old or maybe things are worse: I remember when the worst things that happened in my mid 20's were the Government burned down a cult compound and an intern blew the President. Now half a state is on fire and the President is fucking everybody.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
holy racist shit.
According to a draft of the proposal described to NBC News, immigrants living legally in the United States who have used Obamacare, children’s health insurance, food stamps or other welfare programs could have a tough time receiving legal status. The administration’s rationale seems to be that these legal immigrants — many of whom are paying taxes — are mooching off programs paid for by “American” taxpayers.
The measure is a coup for Trump adviser Stephen Miller, who has exhibited a Terminator-like focus on restricting American immigration policy. Miller was at the forefront of the administration’s push to enact the “zero tolerance” border policy that led to thousands of family separations, admitting it was being used to deter migrants from seeking asylum in the United States.
He has tried to push several other measures through, many of which have been struck down by the federal judiciary. The new policy would precipitate what has already been a steep decline in the number of green cards issued since Trump took office, and experts estimate that over 20 million immigrants could be affected. Immigration lawyers told NBC News it would be the biggest overhaul of the legal immigration system in decades.
Other measures under consideration were limiting visas for temporary agricultural workers, making student visas more difficult to obtain and collecting biometric data from foreign visitors to the United States.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
Still think Dems are not nice enough to republicans?
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)
in this case absolutely not. Miller is pure evil.
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