Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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A_B wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:39 am
sancarlos wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:19 am
Joe K wrote: Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:58 pm
brian wrote: Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:54 pm Jennifer Granholm is ineligible to be president.
Didn’t realize she was Canadian born. But anyways it should be someone with strong appeal in those states.
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And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Now the Republican Party itself is coming after McRaven.

That is just so batshit insane. Jesus fucking Christ, do these people have any clue how America is supposed to work?
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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KInd of an interesting take here, but when you really sit down and think about it, it makes sense. Trump's autocratic ambitions are being constrained by his incompetence, but the Bush administration was not incompetent unfortunately.

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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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brian wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:30 pm KInd of an interesting take here, but when you really sit down and think about it, it makes sense. Trump's autocratic ambitions are being constrained by his incompetence, but the Bush administration was not incompetent unfortunately.

McKay said in the Times last Sunday that he'd take Trump's brand of evil over Cheney's.

His analogy was - which would you rather have trying to kill you, a trained assassin, or a raving, screaming lunatic?

You'll always know where the lunatic is and can deal with him accordingly. But a trained assassin is content to work in the shadows to get the job done.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Yeah...The cabal Bush surrounded himself with was one of, if not the darkest in American history.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Not a defense of GWB, but he didn't surround himself with the sheer number of evil and/or incompetent people as did Trump.

Think about it.

Bannon, Pruitt, Zinke, Devos, Ross, Perry, Carson, Mnuchin, Pence, Flynn, Pompeo, Sessions, Gorka, Stone, Manafort, Tillerson, Nielsen, Christie, Sanders, Spicer, Jackson, Kobach, Greitens... the list goes on and on.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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sancarlos wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:10 pm Not a defense of GWB, but he didn't surround himself with the sheer number of evil and/or incompetent people as did Trump.

Think about it.

Bannon, Pruitt, Zinke, Devos, Ross, Perry, Carson, Mnuchin, Pence, Flynn, Pompeo, Sessions, Gorka, Stone, Manafort, Tillerson, Nielsen, Christie, Sanders, Spicer, Jackson, Kobach, Greitens... the list goes on and on.
Yeah, Bush surrounded himself with evil competent people with substantial experience in high-level government positions. Evil people with an understanding of how the system works, and great connections within the system. People like Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rove...
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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The Sybian wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:30 pm
sancarlos wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:10 pm Not a defense of GWB, but he didn't surround himself with the sheer number of evil and/or incompetent people as did Trump.

Think about it.

Bannon, Pruitt, Zinke, Devos, Ross, Perry, Carson, Mnuchin, Pence, Flynn, Pompeo, Sessions, Gorka, Stone, Manafort, Tillerson, Nielsen, Christie, Sanders, Spicer, Jackson, Kobach, Greitens... the list goes on and on.
Yeah, Bush surrounded himself with evil competent people with substantial experience in high-level government positions. Evil people with an understanding of how the system works, and great connections within the system. People like Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rove...
Maybe it's an unpopular opinion, but you guys will never get me to believe that that administration was worse for us than is the current one.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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sancarlos wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:37 pm
The Sybian wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:30 pm
sancarlos wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:10 pm Not a defense of GWB, but he didn't surround himself with the sheer number of evil and/or incompetent people as did Trump.

Think about it.

Bannon, Pruitt, Zinke, Devos, Ross, Perry, Carson, Mnuchin, Pence, Flynn, Pompeo, Sessions, Gorka, Stone, Manafort, Tillerson, Nielsen, Christie, Sanders, Spicer, Jackson, Kobach, Greitens... the list goes on and on.
Yeah, Bush surrounded himself with evil competent people with substantial experience in high-level government positions. Evil people with an understanding of how the system works, and great connections within the system. People like Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rove...
Maybe it's an unpopular opinion, but you guys will never get me to believe that that administration was worse for us than is the current one.
The families of 4,500 dead American soldiers and one million dead Iraqi and Afghani civilians might beg to differ. In addition to the loss of $5 trillion spent waging a futile and unwinnable war and the incalculable loss to American prestige abroad.

Those bonds are still being strained by Trump, but at least he hasn't been as bad as Bush w/r/t foreign policy.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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I think Trump is more of a threat to fundamental American values, such as inclusiveness, equality under the law, and the right to criticize your elected leaders.

Bush caused more practical harm, especially to our short- and medium-term interests, caused lots of unnecessary death, wasted billions of dollars, etc.

They both fostered rampant corruption (remember Jack Abramoff?), though I don't think Bush was personally corrupt, just aggressively stupid (I don't do nuance).
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Steve of phpBB wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:50 pm I think Trump is more of a threat to fundamental American values, such as inclusiveness, equality under the law, and the right to criticize your elected leaders.

Bush caused more practical harm, especially to our short- and medium-term interests, caused lots of unnecessary death, wasted billions of dollars, etc.

They both fostered rampant corruption (remember Jack Abramoff?), though I don't think Bush was personally corrupt, just aggressively stupid (I don't do nuance).
Succinct and wholly accurate. In my opinion anyway.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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The Sybian wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:30 pm
sancarlos wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:10 pm Not a defense of GWB, but he didn't surround himself with the sheer number of evil and/or incompetent people as did Trump.

Think about it.

Bannon, Pruitt, Zinke, Devos, Ross, Perry, Carson, Mnuchin, Pence, Flynn, Pompeo, Sessions, Gorka, Stone, Manafort, Tillerson, Nielsen, Christie, Sanders, Spicer, Jackson, Kobach, Greitens... the list goes on and on.
Yeah, Bush surrounded himself with evil competent people with substantial experience in high-level government positions. Evil people with an understanding of how the system works, and great connections within the system. People like Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rove...
Exactly. Wholly competent and without a trace of human decency.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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I mean, this can't bode well for Trump considering he wasn't even on the ballot. I know a lot of these votes weren't anti-Trump votes specifically, but damn. I realize incumbents have several advantages, but I wouldn't bet even money on Trump to win re-election at this point.

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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Sleep well America.

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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Pruitt wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:27 pm Sleep well America.

No way the Kaiser's Army breaks through that.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Guess he never watched Hogan's Heroes
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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EdRomero wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:00 pm Guess he never watched Hogan's Heroes
If he did, he probably thought it was a documentary.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Steve of phpBB wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:50 pm I think Trump is more of a threat to fundamental American values, such as inclusiveness, equality under the law, and the right to criticize your elected leaders.
This is an interesting question and I think it’s debatable. It’s easy to forget just how hostile the political and media climate was to dissent in the run-up to the Iraq War. Even MSNBC fired multiple on-air personalities for criticism of the War. Conversely, there’s no shortage of opportunities for Trump critics. Bush was also awful on civil rights, including gay rights. Hans von Spakovsky is a prototypical example of that administration’s brand of experienced personnel who did tremendous harm. And Karl Rove pushed to get anti-gay referendums on the ballots in key states on 2004 to drive conservative turnout for Bush’s re-election.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Joe K wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:43 pmIt’s easy to forget just how hostile the political and media climate was to dissent in the run-up to the Iraq War. Even MSNBC fired multiple on-air personalities for criticism of the War.
I agree that the press was hostile to the anti-war side in the runup to the war. But I don't recall Bush himself saying anything even remotely comparable to what Trump has said or done about people who criticize him. Bush never threatened to deny licenses or withhold merger approval to newspapers who criticized him.

We did have Ari Fleischer saying that people should watch what they say. But as far as I remember, that was a one-off; he didn't make a regular habit out of it. Bush was a terrible president. Easily the second-worst of our lifetimes. But most of the time, he and his people at least paid lip service to our fundamental ideals (even as they were shipping Arabs to Poland for torture, conducting illegal surveillance, and claiming unlimited and unreviewable power to imprison anyone the president accused of being a security threat).

And of course while the media was actively hostile to the anti-war side in the runup to the war, they seemed to get over it by 2005.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Steve of phpBB wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:16 pm
Joe K wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:43 pmIt’s easy to forget just how hostile the political and media climate was to dissent in the run-up to the Iraq War. Even MSNBC fired multiple on-air personalities for criticism of the War.
I agree that the press was hostile to the anti-war side in the runup to the war. But I don't recall Bush himself saying anything even remotely comparable to what Trump has said or done about people who criticize him. Bush never threatened to deny licenses or withhold merger approval to newspapers who criticized him.

We did have Ari Fleischer saying that people should watch what they say. But as far as I remember, that was a one-off; he didn't make a regular habit out of it. Bush was a terrible president. Easily the second-worst of our lifetimes. But most of the time, he and his people at least paid lip service to our fundamental ideals (even as they were shipping Arabs to Poland for torture, conducting illegal surveillance, and claiming unlimited and unreviewable power to imprison anyone the president accused of being a security threat).

And of course while the media was actively hostile to the anti-war side in the runup to the war, they seemed to get over it by 2005.
I think this further shows how Bush's Admin was more dangerous than Trump's. Bush fooled the actual Liberal media into supporting the Iraq War. Sure, 9/11 helped, but Cheney and Co. orchestrated the evidence to convince the press that invading Iraq was justified. Trump is so clueless, stupid and impulsive, he flat out admits his crimes and illegitimate reasons for his actions.

I see Sancarlos' point that Trump is worse, because he is clearly a worse human, and would legit be a dictator if he could, but the Bush Admin had the wits and skill to actually accomplish their horrible agenda. Trump is a fucking loon with no political beliefs, and no ability to actually accomplish anything. OTOH, Bush fucked up the country through using the system and institutions, while Trump is a bloated bull in a china shop, smashing the system and institutions.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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The Sybian wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:14 pm
Steve of phpBB wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:16 pm
Joe K wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:43 pmIt’s easy to forget just how hostile the political and media climate was to dissent in the run-up to the Iraq War. Even MSNBC fired multiple on-air personalities for criticism of the War.
I agree that the press was hostile to the anti-war side in the runup to the war. But I don't recall Bush himself saying anything even remotely comparable to what Trump has said or done about people who criticize him. Bush never threatened to deny licenses or withhold merger approval to newspapers who criticized him.

We did have Ari Fleischer saying that people should watch what they say. But as far as I remember, that was a one-off; he didn't make a regular habit out of it. Bush was a terrible president. Easily the second-worst of our lifetimes. But most of the time, he and his people at least paid lip service to our fundamental ideals (even as they were shipping Arabs to Poland for torture, conducting illegal surveillance, and claiming unlimited and unreviewable power to imprison anyone the president accused of being a security threat).

And of course while the media was actively hostile to the anti-war side in the runup to the war, they seemed to get over it by 2005.
I think this further shows how Bush's Admin was more dangerous than Trump's. Bush fooled the actual Liberal media into supporting the Iraq War. Sure, 9/11 helped, but Cheney and Co. orchestrated the evidence to convince the press that invading Iraq was justified. Trump is so clueless, stupid and impulsive, he flat out admits his crimes and illegitimate reasons for his actions.

I see Sancarlos' point that Trump is worse, because he is clearly a worse human, and would legit be a dictator if he could, but the Bush Admin had the wits and skill to actually accomplish their horrible agenda. Trump is a fucking loon with no political beliefs, and no ability to actually accomplish anything. OTOH, Bush fucked up the country through using the system and institutions, while Trump is a bloated bull in a china shop, smashing the system and institutions.
Sure, but what happens when Trump is succeeded by someone just as hateful and charismatic but also competent?
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Trump defends Saudi Arabia’s denial about the planning of Khashoggi’s death
In the eight-paragraph statement, the president lauded Saudi Arabia’s economic ties with the United States and emphasized the country’s opposition to Iran. He noted that Saudi Arabia considered Khashoggi an “enemy of the state” and a member of the Muslim Brotherhood but insisted that “my decision was in no way based on that.”
Who needs Intelligence?
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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I'm not sure what to say about this...

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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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I can't imagine the level of embarrassment I would feel if someone painted something like that of me.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Giff wrote: Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:49 pm I can't imagine the level of embarrassment I would feel if someone painted something like that of me.
You mean you wouldn't hang it up in your house?



(ok, that's not McNaughton, but its just as bad)
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Wow...

Remember how the last couple of Presidents would have "surprise" visits to Iraq and Afghanistan? (Biden used to do it too).

This asshole can't even get in a limo to go to Arlington. And his staff have to announce that there are plans to have him visit soldiers.

Sickening.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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mister d wrote:Couldn't have pegged me better.
EnochRoot wrote:I mean, whatever. Johnnie's all hot cuz I ride him.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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DaveInSeattle wrote: Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:22 pm I'm not sure what to say about this...



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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Dammit. Something's going with my settings. I'm Jerloma'd on the Twitter stuff now.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Just watching Trump speak in a tacky room at Mar-A-Lago...

He's making shit up at a fantastic pace. Did you know that the US was teetering on the brink before he took over. And that the US is now making "trillions and trillions" more and China is making "trillions and trillions" less than before.

ETA: He's thankful for his family and for the fact that he has made a tremendous difference in the country.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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He called the troops, guys. Greatest. President. Ever.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Johnnie wrote: Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:41 am He called the troops, guys. Greatest. President. Ever.
Asked who should be held accountable for the death of Khashoggi, who was killed at the Saudi Consulate in Turkey, Trump refused to place blame.

“Maybe the world should be held accountable because the world is a very, very vicious place,” the president said.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Maybe it was the Central Park Five, also members of the world.
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We're getting closer to someone calling Donald Trump "Putin's Power Bottom." I can't wait.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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"What a bunch of pedantic pricks." - sybian
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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The only question I have was how bad was dinner for this to be a highlight?
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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So is this Manafort caught lying after the plea bargain story leading to something big, or do I need to back away from liberal Twitter?
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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EdRomero wrote: Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:20 pm So is this Manafort caught lying after the plea bargain story leading to something big, or do I need to back away from liberal Twitter?
Big fucking deal apparently.

Mueller just guaranteed he can issue a public report.

Summed up in this thread:

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