Godless III - Completing The Trinity

TT2.0 · Post by **TT2.0** » Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:59 am

jesus fucking christ i cant even joke about ME not getting into heaven around some fucking Christians

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:15 am

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:49 pm

The American author of a bestselling Christian guide to relationships for young people has announced that his marriage is over and he has lost his faith.

Joshua Harris, whose biblical guide to relationships I Kissed Dating Goodbye sold nearly 1m copies around the world after it was published in 1997, has also apologised to LGBT+ people for contributing to a “culture of exclusion and bigotry”.

Top Reddit comment on the story's link:

HOLY SHIT. I can't believe this is on the front page.

I grew up in this guy's churchcult. I was born into it, went to the k-12 school attached to the church. I was indoctrinated from diapers.

Covenant life and SGM is and was a massive cult. My family and other church members moved into suburb developments together so I literally didn't interact with anyone not in the church for like 15 years.

Also because of Josh, I didn't have any relationships until I left high school. Pretty much wrecked my expectations, social abilities, and ability to relate romantically in any normal fashion. This guy FUCKED my friend's lives and my life up. He also took part in the cover up of multiple sexual abuse cases at the church. They also did nothing to help women who reported domestic abuse...in fact they told them to "be better wives."

I went to college and it STILL took years to slowly deprogram. Living happily atheist now.

I'm actually really hoping he's telling the truth and isn't just trying to sell himself again. The guy left the pastor life to work in marketing...which is all he was ever doing anyways...

I'm glad he's maybe getting a little connection to reality, and it is "incredible" that he is flipping his life upside down like this...

HOWEVER. Don't be fooled..the guy is and always has been a snake oil salesman who COVERED UP SEXUAL ASSAULT AND POSSIBLE RAPE OF MINORS AND ADULTS.

I don't give a shit how many apologies he offers. Ive forgiven him for what he did to me and my friends, but he can go get fucked.

Post by **brian** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:59 pm

How much you want to bet he somehow manages to find it again in a few months and then starts a new grift.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:03 pm

brian wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:59 pm How much you want to bet he somehow manages to find it again in a few months and then starts a new grift.

Remember Glen Beck's apology tour a couple years ago?

Bob Garfield of the "On The Media" podcast was having none of it and Beck's claims of a "come to Jesus" moment were so fake sounding.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:50 pm

DSafetyGuy · Post by **DSafetyGuy** » Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:44 pm

Do Mountain Dew next and ruin middle America.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:11 pm

It's like Dan Brown novel written by Kyle in drywall dust.

I can only imagine what she has to say about La Croix and White Claw.

Square Rob · Post by **Square Rob** » Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:12 am

Johnnie wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:11 pm It's like Dan Brown novel written by Kyle in drywall dust.

I can only imagine what she has to say about La Croix and White Claw.

Guy I work with has a tee shirt that says ‘there ain’t no laws when I’m drinking white claw’s’ and I want it so bad.

rass · Post by **rass** » Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:42 am

$19 on Amazon

Post by **Shirley** » Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:41 am

Square Rob wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:12 am
Johnnie wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:11 pm It's like Dan Brown novel written by Kyle in drywall dust.

I can only imagine what she has to say about La Croix and White Claw.
Guy I work with has a tee shirt that says ‘there ain’t no laws when I’m drinking white claw’s’ and I want it so bad.

Does it have the unnecessary apostrophe? I think it's better if it does.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:58 pm

sancarlos wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:50 pm

She is a hell of a saleswoman. I suddenly want to drink Monster.

Post by **brian** » Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:16 pm

I was at the liquor store and was gonna buy a sixer of White Claw and they were sold out. Sold Out from an enormous liquor store the size of a Whole Foods. What a time to be alive.

Square Rob · Post by **Square Rob** » Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:04 am

Shirley wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:41 am
Square Rob wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:12 am
Johnnie wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:11 pm It's like Dan Brown novel written by Kyle in drywall dust.

I can only imagine what she has to say about La Croix and White Claw.
Guy I work with has a tee shirt that says ‘there ain’t no laws when I’m drinking white claw’s’ and I want it so bad.
Does it have the unnecessary apostrophe? I think it's better if it does.

Nope, that was just my own hungover brain.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:53 am

I hate country music. And it's certainly because of dumb songs like this:

Typically country music has the undertones, but this fucking song just smashes you over the head with it.

If this is truly God's country, it's a shitty one to choose to be honest. You think God would have better taste in countries.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:02 pm

I agree 100% when it comes to Nashville commercial radio country. But, I feel like I have to note that there is also an underground of (imho) good country (as several other swampers well know). Often referred to as "alt. country" or "outlaw country" or "no depression". It has the twang, but a decidedly different bent. And, since this is the godless thread:

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:09 pm

That's a great tune...and I've also always thought that the devil won the solo battle, too.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:13 pm

This kind of shit just pisses me off. West Virginia is a poor state and this guy lived like a royal prince off his people’s back.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:19 am

I get stuff like this shoved in my mailbox around every Jewish holiday.

These ultra-orthodox folks are wacky.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:29 am

I'd pay a lot more for 355 good and sweet days.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:02 pm

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:29 am I'd pay a lot more for 355 good and sweet days.

I know some people - I might be able to get them down to $299.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:52 pm

An Oxford professor allegedly stole ancient Bible fragments and sold them to Hobby Lobby

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:23 am

Hey you guys...maybe there are consequences to institutions promoting ideas that are demonstrably false, even if they're not hurting anyone. Maybe when lies are accepted just because they're not hurting anyone, it fosters an environment where any lie can not only be be accepted but seen as morally virtuous just for believing it, regardless of whether not not it hurts anyone. Maybe if you protect the idea that the truth is subjective and flimsy in order to protect the charlatans and sheep that make up religion...just because they're not hurting anyone...maybe you're part of the fucking problem.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:34 pm

(Moved this here because I didn't want to talk about my Aunt Margaret on a thread devoted to Trump. She deserves better.)

Jerloma wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:07 am
Pruitt wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:01 pm And "Christians" love this venal piece of shit.

Trump ordered to pay $2 million to charities over misuse of foundation
What's with the quotations? They're not real Christians because they admire moral corruption? Do you have any idea how much tax-exempt money that churches use on non-charitable causes? Not only is it not surprising; it's par for the course.

(Also, this No True Scotsman thing is not only a fallacy but it lends credence to the insidious idea that there's something morally superior about surrendering your critical faculties to a death cult based on child, blood sacrifice and that what people believe is more important than how they behave. Don't do that.)

I had an "Aunt" who helped raise me - long story - and she lived with my family until she died in her 90s.

Anyway, she was a Minister's daughter from Saskatchewan whose only sibling married a Minister. Very pious, and a kinder, gentler, more understanding and charitable person I have never met. So when I think of what a "Christian" should be, I think of her.

But you are absolutely right. She was the exception and not the rule.

Post by **brian** » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:50 pm

There's a lot more Christians out there like that than most people realize, but they're obviously not on social media talking about how Trump was sent by God to rule in God's name or any such nonsense like that. There's a disturbing number of evangelicals who actually believe that nonsense, but they're largely the same kind of credulous rubes who believe the prosperity gospel and are basically the easiest marks imaginable for someone like Trump anyway.

Long story short, they'd be voting for Trump whether or not they actually attended services, etc. Christians are not much different from anyone else in their ability to filter all of the noise in their life into hearing the messages they want to hear and confirming the biases they've held for all of their lives. If that sounds a little too charitable, maybe it is, but there's plenty of Christians who actually are repulsed by kids in cages and the lying and grifting and all of it because I know them.

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:56 pm

People are just people, man. There's tons of really good people that happen to believe silly things, but when you make a correlation with your Aunt's kindness and her Christianity, it means that without the grand prize of eternal paradise, she wouldn't be the same person. Don't give them that. They don't deserve credit for the kindness of their adherents. Empathy is a human trait that's been earned via billions of years of natural selection and to boil it down to this childish carrot/stick moral system based on a bunch of fables dehumanizes them.

In fact the very central tenet of vicarious redemption (basically scapegoating) was specifically designed to absolve people of moral accountability. So not only does it invite shitty behavior; it absolutely requires it. Gotta create the disease before you can create the cure.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:58 pm

J-Lo, does the written version of Jesus sound like someone people would be well-served to emulate?

Post by **brian** » Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:59 pm

mister d wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:58 pm J-Lo, does the written version of Jesus sound like someone people would be well-served to emulate?

I was going to make a similar point. Curious to hear JLo's take on that.

Post by **brian** » Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:03 pm

mister d wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:58 pm J-Lo, does the written version of Jesus sound like someone people would be well-served to emulate?

I still want an answer to this.

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:51 am

Which version? There are four different ones authored by four different people from 70-100 years after his death, all painting contradicting versions of Jesus. Which one would you cherry pick to prove that there's anything noble in Christianity?

If Jesus existed, he was a deluded, apocalyptic preacher who claimed to be the sole creator of the universe and humankind. He could not stop talking about the end and if he had a central teaching it was no thought for tomorrow. He told people to leave their families, leave their children, offer no investment for the future, and follow him for it was the only way to be saved. Any moral teachings he had were simply to appease his father who was also him and they all existed long before he came along.

The reason that people cherry pick the bible to portray Jesus as some sort of moral guru is because they are already good people that desperately want their worldview to be divinely mandated. This does not change the fact that the guy was either a god or a lunatic. If he was in fact who he says, then he created the very moral system which he preached and was also truly infallible so there's nothing impressive about him living a "sinless " life or whatever. If he was just a man, then his teachings were not moral at all and based solely on a lie. He was just another charlatan, telling people to see and hear with their hearts and not their eyes and ears. Telling people that they are depraved and hopeless, unless they submit to him and constantly threatening them with eternal damnation for not doing so.

Nobody would have ever heard of this man if not for Constantine adopting Christianity as the official rule of the Roman Empire and there's no way of that happening without the idea that he is a deity who preached submission and authority and subsequently rose from the dead. If you're interested in controlling people, he's perfect. If you're interested in moral progress, he's a detriment to it. There isn't one teaching of Jesus that you admire that couldn't and had been just as easily obtained and executed through rational, secular means.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:53 am

Cult+Time = Religion

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:01 pm

Jerloma wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:51 amThere isn't one teaching of Jesus that you admire that couldn't and had been just as easily obtained and executed through rational, secular means.

Sure, but that applies to literally anything good anyone does. You can always ascribe ulterior motives.

(Which is to say I don't buy your "everyone is inherently good or bad and no one can be positively affected by their selective following of how they believe Jesus might have lived".)

Post by **brian** » Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:13 pm

If something is bad or evil and it is perverted over time to be a force for good, is it still evil?

If something is good and is perverted for evil, is it still good?

I think a lot of the complaints about religion is that it is perverted for evil ends, which is fair, but if you read the New Testament and actually really tried to live in a "Christ-like" manner described therein you'd probably be in the top one or two percent of all humans in terms of the net good you bring to the world. So that's not such a bad thing. The beginnings of Christianity or the actual real life of Jesus Christ is largely irrelevant in 2019.

Post by **brian** » Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:14 pm

I'm atheist as fuck and I don't mind saying it, but if everyone followed the teachings of Jesus Christ we wouldn't even "need" religion.

Johnny Carwash · Post by **Johnny Carwash** » Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:23 pm

If J-Lo responds I'm guessing it will be some selected verses that don't sound too hot to the modern mind, but I'm closer to the mister d/brian camp.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:29 pm

Its also like yelling at a 1983 Michigan State grad "HOW CAN YOU VALUE YOUR TIME THERE WHEN (list of awful shit that MSU has done)???"

EnochRoot · Post by **EnochRoot** » Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:04 pm

Jerloma wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:51 am Which version? There are four different ones authored by four different people from 70-100 years after his death, all painting contradicting versions of Jesus. Which one would you cherry pick to prove that there's anything noble in Christianity?

If Jesus existed, he was a deluded, apocalyptic preacher who claimed to be the sole creator of the universe and humankind. He could not stop talking about the end and if he had a central teaching it was no thought for tomorrow. He told people to leave their families, leave their children, offer no investment for the future, and follow him for it was the only way to be saved. Any moral teachings he had were simply to appease his father who was also him and they all existed long before he came along.

The reason that people cherry pick the bible to portray Jesus as some sort of moral guru is because they are already good people that desperately want their worldview to be divinely mandated. This does not change the fact that the guy was either a god or a lunatic. If he was in fact who he says, then he created the very moral system which he preached and was also truly infallible so there's nothing impressive about him living a "sinless " life or whatever. If he was just a man, then his teachings were not moral at all and based solely on a lie. He was just another charlatan, telling people to see and hear with their hearts and not their eyes and ears. Telling people that they are depraved and hopeless, unless they submit to him and constantly threatening them with eternal damnation for not doing so.

Nobody would have ever heard of this man if not for Constantine adopting Christianity as the official rule of the Roman Empire and there's no way of that happening without the idea that he is a deity who preached submission and authority and subsequently rose from the dead. If you're interested in controlling people, he's perfect. If you're interested in moral progress, he's a detriment to it. There isn't one teaching of Jesus that you admire that couldn't and had been just as easily obtained and executed through rational, secular means.

This is a great take. However, I think you should italicize 'Jesus' because I highly doubt there was a lone individual who was the Jesus. Jesus is likely represented by hundreds of whack-a-doos that chose to be nice rather than be shitty to others.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:19 pm

I think History agrees there was a Jesus in much the way History agrees there was a Julius Caesar, no?

Post by **brian** » Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:23 pm

A_B wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:19 pm I think History agrees there was a Jesus in much the way History agrees there was a Julius Caesar, no?

Not exactly, though it's possible. The historical data is unclear as might be expected considering if Jesus of Nazareth was an actual person, there were very few to almost none contemporaneous historical accounts of him from the time he lived, especially compared to an emperor like Julius Caesar (accounted for by the fact that exceedingly few people at the time were literate).

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:32 pm

brian wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:23 pm
A_B wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:19 pm I think History agrees there was a Jesus in much the way History agrees there was a Julius Caesar, no?
Not exactly, though it's possible. The historical data is unclear as might be expected considering if Jesus of Nazareth was an actual person, there were very few to almost none contemporaneous historical accounts of him from the time he lived, especially compared to an emperor like Julius Caesar (accounted for by the fact that exceedingly few people at the time were literate).

I got you. Not a perfect analog.That seems fair that an emperor would have better media coverage.