2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

HaulCitgo · Post by **HaulCitgo** » Wed Mar 04, 2020 5:46 pm

And the policies are questionable. Who benefits most from student loan relief? More importantly, of those only the ones currently paying would benefit. Who would be hurt if fast food jobs went to $20/hr? The least efficient jobs would disappear and the remainder aren't likely to be filled by the lower class. I generally agree that Bernie and Warren would drag the policy further toward the left and that would help black folks but the actual policy can and should be questioned. Just remember than its black conservatism that is saving liberals ass from economic self-destruction which has been tried and accomplished before.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:33 am

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:10 am

I confess...I didn't get what Bloomberg was getting at.

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:42 am

tennbengal wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:10 am I confess...I didn't get what Bloomberg was getting at.

I assume it’s If you strike me down, I’ll come back even more powerful. (By whispering “Use the Force,” I guess.)

Hasn’t Bloomberg announced he’ll keep spending to help defeat Trump?

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:50 am

tennbengal wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:10 am I confess...I didn't get what Bloomberg was getting at.

To be quite honest, I don't either.

I guess by making Obi Wan go away it makes Luke (Joe Biden!?!?) stronger?

This is why he had to hire people to make memes.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:52 am

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:42 amHasn’t Bloomberg announced he’ll keep spending to help defeat Trump?

But I thought that was George Soros's job?

Classic plot twist.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:53 am

Its also not true. If its head to head Sanders versus Trump, does anyone believe Bloomberg would do anything but try to run 3rd party spoiler?

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:55 am

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:53 am Its also not true. If its head to head Sanders versus Trump, does anyone believe Bloomberg would do anything but try to run 3rd party spoiler?

Perhaps.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:58 am

If Sanders defeats Trump aided by Bloomberg's unlimited resources, I'll let you have one (1) of my limbs. Your choice.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:59 am

Johnnie wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:50 am
To be quite honest, I don't either.

I guess by making Obi Wan go away it makes Luke (Joe Biden!?!?) stronger?

This is why he had to hire people to make memes.

Yeah, I was going to say that Bloomberg must have tons of bored social media people sitting around now. I had to block him on Facebook because the ads were absolutely incessant.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:05 am

I’m not going to link Hannity or Tucker Carlson here but in other campaign video news, Fox is taking direct shots at the Biden dementia issue this week. Trump himself posted a video on his Twitter account this week. Like I’ve said, however electable Biden may seem to the Democratic Party now, I sure hope they’ve run some focus group polling to try to price that in.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:06 am

Someone whose brain has also been ruined by the last ~4 years thinks this is the way the party "unavoidably" drops in their chosen replacement candidate. Which, to be fair, would be preferable to Biden.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:09 am

If someone has an '04 Obama moment in Milwaukee and they don't remember where they were when JFK was shot, they automatically get to be the nominee and you can't convince me otherwise

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:11 am

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:06 am Someone whose brain has also been ruined by the last ~4 years thinks this is the way the party "unavoidably" drops in their chosen replacement candidate. Which, to be fair, would be preferable to Biden.

It certainly would be one reason why every ambitious Dem has been rushing to endorse. I assume Harris will endorse any day now, and just waited a few days after everyone else to avoid the optics of Biden losing the California primary right after she endorsed him.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:13 am

Joe K wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:05 am I’m not going to link Hannity or Tucker Carlson here but in other campaign video news, Fox is taking direct shots at the Biden dementia issue this week. Trump himself posted a video on his Twitter account this week. Like I’ve said, however electable Biden may seem to the Democratic Party now, I sure hope they’ve run some focus group polling to try to price that in.

They still would rather run against Bernie. Even they admit there is no possible way that Biden gets less votes than Hillary. There is no person that voted for Hillary in 2016 who would not vote for Biden.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:19 am

Biden + Ukraine = Bad

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... in-ukraine

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:23 am

degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:13 amThey still would rather run against Bernie. Even they admit there is no possible way that Biden gets less votes than Hillary. There is no person that voted for Hillary in 2016 who would not vote for Biden.

Degen, have you heard of "women"?

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:24 am

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:23 am
degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:13 amThey still would rather run against Bernie. Even they admit there is no possible way that Biden gets less votes than Hillary. There is no person that voted for Hillary in 2016 who would not vote for Biden.
Degen, have you heard of "women"?

Also, a lot more right-leaning voters went third-Party in 2016 than left-leaning voters. For as much as Jill Stein gets demonized for Hillary’s loss, Gary Johnson got like 3 times as many votes as her. If those voters “come home” to the GOP, it’s a problem.

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:30 am

Giff wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:34 am
mister d wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:17 am
Giff wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:43 am Apologies that parroting trump and GOP talking points when you have plenty of damn good other reasons to support Bernie over Biden touched a nerve.
Did you ever answer whether you believe the South Africa story?
In the grand scheme of the last 4 years, Biden using arrested over detained isn't even a blip on my radar. Seriously, you have tons of reasons why Biden is a far worse candidate than Sanders where you can just ignore this bullshit about Biden's son or his exaggerated stories.

Since Giff doesn't want to talk about this, it still needs to be highlighted. Joe Biden said that he was arrested with Nelson Mandela and that Nelson Mandela walked up to him years later to say "Thank You."

Biden was not...

1. Aressted
2. With Mandela

He was 200 miles from where Mandela was in prison and not even going to see him.

Giff's takeaway on this is that he's willing to forgive the semantics on the words arrested and detained.

There was a time in the Swamp where this level of intellectual dishonesty would be scoffed at. Now it's just the world where we live, and we've even let it infect the Swamp.

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:40 am

benghazi

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:42 am

Over the course of his career, Biden’s honesty issues are far worse than Hillary’s. The Mandela lie is just the latest. He’s also repeatedly lied about participating in civil rights protests in the US (not to mention the plagiarism scandal).

DSafetyGuy · Post by **DSafetyGuy** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:48 am

Joe K wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:42 am Over the course of his career, Biden’s honesty issues are far worse than Hillary’s. The Mandela lie is just the latest. He’s also repeatedly lied about participating in civil rights protests in the US (not to mention the plagiarism scandal).

He lied about where he finished in his class at law school at Syracuse, he lied about getting a full academic scholarship to said law school, he plagiarized a law review journal while in law school...

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:52 am

DSafetyGuy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:48 am
Joe K wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:42 am Over the course of his career, Biden’s honesty issues are far worse than Hillary’s. The Mandela lie is just the latest. He’s also repeatedly lied about participating in civil rights protests in the US (not to mention the plagiarism scandal).
He lied about where he finished in his class at law school at Syracuse, he lied about getting a full academic scholarship to said law school, he plagiarized a law review journal while in law school...

Boeheim-ghazi!!!

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:57 am

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:23 am
degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:13 amThey still would rather run against Bernie. Even they admit there is no possible way that Biden gets less votes than Hillary. There is no person that voted for Hillary in 2016 who would not vote for Biden.
Degen, have you heard of "women"?

Was a FOX News talking point, not mine.

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:59 am

Jerloma wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:30 am
Giff wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:34 am
mister d wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:17 am
Giff wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:43 am Apologies that parroting trump and GOP talking points when you have plenty of damn good other reasons to support Bernie over Biden touched a nerve.
Did you ever answer whether you believe the South Africa story?
In the grand scheme of the last 4 years, Biden using arrested over detained isn't even a blip on my radar. Seriously, you have tons of reasons why Biden is a far worse candidate than Sanders where you can just ignore this bullshit about Biden's son or his exaggerated stories.
Since Giff doesn't want to talk about this, it still needs to be highlighted. Joe Biden said that he was arrested with Nelson Mandela and that Nelson Mandela walked up to him years later to say "Thank You."

Biden was not...

1. Aressted
2. With Mandela

He was 200 miles from where Mandela was in prison and not even going to see him.

Giff's takeaway on this is that he's willing to forgive the semantics on the words arrested and detained.

There was a time in the Swamp where this level of intellectual dishonesty would be scoffed at. Now it's just the world where we live, and we've even let it infect the Swamp.

I seriously hadn't heard the story and admittedly did not delve deeper that his "explanations" last weekend. My apologies to mister d.

I really think y'all overrate how the general public feels about this shit. If they cared, we wouldn't be trying to oust trump. Come on. I mean, it's really hurt him with the black community for sure!

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:02 am

mister d wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:50 pm Steve, you don't see where attempting to replace the pro-corporate, bad-with-women liar and his grifter children with a pro-corporate, bad-with-women liar and his grifter child might be an issue, even if we can agree its to lesser degrees?

I guess if the answer is "I don't see an issue", so be it, we just disagree.

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:07 am

I really think y'all overrate how the general public feels about this shit. If they cared, we wouldn't be trying to oust trump. Come on. I mean, it's really hurt him with the black community for sure!

I know and I realize this is going to be met with a huge sigh/eyeroll but I really feel like people don't care about it because the MSM doesn't. Having a serial liar in the Oval Office is great for business.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:11 am

Start with the people who don't ever have any interaction with the MSM. Half my office is blissfully unaware of almost everything.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:12 am

Jerloma wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:07 am
I really think y'all overrate how the general public feels about this shit. If they cared, we wouldn't be trying to oust trump. Come on. I mean, it's really hurt him with the black community for sure!
I know and I realize this is going to be met with a huge sigh/eyeroll but I really feel like people don't care about it because the MSM doesn't. Having a serial liar in the Oval Office is great for business.

The MSM also goes a long way to shaping narratives about candidates. Someone like Warren would have likely gotten absolutely crushed by CNN/MSNBC/NYT for a Mandela lie, but the narrative is that Biden is a decent, grandfatherly statesman. So that blatant lie got a lot less attention then, say, the Clyburn/Klobuchar/Pete endorsements. If that framing holds up through November, then sure he’s got a great shot. I’m just very skeptical it survives the inevitable negative attacks that he hasn’t had to deal with in the primary.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:17 am

Let's break it down.

Is there a voter who voted for Hillary who would not vote for Biden? Is there a voter who voted for Trump (or didn't vote) who would vote for Biden?

Joe K has mentioned women in the nay column.

Blacks in the yay column?

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:20 am

But all of the sudden that same media you've been rightfully criticizing for how they've treated Bernie is all of the sudden going to take up his cause?

And I'm sorry, I disagree that it's a "blatant lie" that he's a decent grandfatherly statesman. I think it's easy here and online to get lost in an echo chamber, so whether you think that's a lie or not, that's not the general perceived notion for the vast majority of Americans out there. Or at least the ones who vote. I mean, he was the VP in one of the most popular and scandal free administrations of the last 75 years.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:23 am

Giff wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:20 am But all of the sudden that same media you've been rightfully criticizing for how they've treated Bernie is all of the sudden going to take up his cause?

And I'm sorry, I disagree that it's a "blatant lie" that he's a decent grandfatherly statesman. I think it's easy here and online to get lost in an echo chamber, so whether you think that's a lie or not, that's not the general perceived notion for the vast majority of Americans out there. Or at least the ones who vote. I mean, he was the VP in one of the most popular and scandal free administrations of the last 75 years.

Re-read my post. The “blatant lie” is the Mandela story, which he repeated several times.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:24 am

degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:57 am
mister d wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:23 am
degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:13 amThey still would rather run against Bernie. Even they admit there is no possible way that Biden gets less votes than Hillary. There is no person that voted for Hillary in 2016 who would not vote for Biden.
Degen, have you heard of "women"?
Was a FOX News talking point, not mine.

We've talked about this, man. Please don't bring bullshit from that outlet into these discussions.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:34 am

Joe K wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:23 am
Giff wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:20 am But all of the sudden that same media you've been rightfully criticizing for how they've treated Bernie is all of the sudden going to take up his cause?

And I'm sorry, I disagree that it's a "blatant lie" that he's a decent grandfatherly statesman. I think it's easy here and online to get lost in an echo chamber, so whether you think that's a lie or not, that's not the general perceived notion for the vast majority of Americans out there. Or at least the ones who vote. I mean, he was the VP in one of the most popular and scandal free administrations of the last 75 years.
Re-read my post. The “blatant lie” is the Mandela story, which he repeated several times.

Also, I’m talking about a narrative shift after Biden wins the primary and faces the GOP machine. That has nothing to do with taking up for Bernie.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:38 am

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:24 am
degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:57 am
mister d wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:23 am
degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:13 amThey still would rather run against Bernie. Even they admit there is no possible way that Biden gets less votes than Hillary. There is no person that voted for Hillary in 2016 who would not vote for Biden.
Degen, have you heard of "women"?
Was a FOX News talking point, not mine.
We've talked about this, man. Please don't bring bullshit from that outlet into these discussions.

Wasn't me.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:45 am

degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:38 am
Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:24 am
degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:57 am
mister d wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:23 am
degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:13 amThey still would rather run against Bernie. Even they admit there is no possible way that Biden gets less votes than Hillary. There is no person that voted for Hillary in 2016 who would not vote for Biden.
Degen, have you heard of "women"?
Was a FOX News talking point, not mine.
We've talked about this, man. Please don't bring bullshit from that outlet into these discussions.
Wasn't me.

Look at Degen going full Trump!

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:46 am

A_B wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:45 am
degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:38 am
Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:24 am
degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:57 am
mister d wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:23 am
degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:13 amThey still would rather run against Bernie. Even they admit there is no possible way that Biden gets less votes than Hillary. There is no person that voted for Hillary in 2016 who would not vote for Biden.
Degen, have you heard of "women"?
Was a FOX News talking point, not mine.
We've talked about this, man. Please don't bring bullshit from that outlet into these discussions.
Wasn't me.
Look at Degen going full Trump!

Ha!

but you guys need to go back. It was using FOX talking point to reply to Joe K's FOX talking point.

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:48 am

Ryan wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:11 am Start with the people who don't ever have any interaction with the MSM. Half my office is blissfully unaware of almost everything.

This is the big thing, I think. We're all hyper aware, and my parents and inlaws don't pay attention to shit, which makes them way more susceptible to the white hot spotlight that's about to be shone on Joe.

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:49 am

STOP BRINGING FOX NEWS TALKING POINTS INTO THIS THREAD

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:54 am

degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:46 am
A_B wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:45 am
degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:38 am
Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:24 am
degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:57 am
mister d wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:23 am
Degen, have you heard of "women"?
Was a FOX News talking point, not mine.
We've talked about this, man. Please don't bring bullshit from that outlet into these discussions.
Wasn't me.
Look at Degen going full Trump!
Ha!

but you guys need to go back. It was using FOX talking point to reply to Joe K's FOX talking point.

We know(hope) it wasn't your opinion, but you definitely brought up the Fox point.