Before and After
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- degenerasian
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Before and After
From EdRomero suggestion.
Obviously focus is on getting through this, but it is interesting to think about how this is a true before/after moment. Probably THE before/after moment of our lives.
So what changes in the after?
- Does the way people travel alter? (Less cruising, less global travel all around?)
- Do our social norms and behaviors change (no hand shaking, or worse yet cheek kissing the some cultures do)
- Do we see a huge increase in remote working, outside the shift that is already happening?
- Do we see a reduction in mass gatherings?
What else potentially changes in the after?
Obviously focus is on getting through this, but it is interesting to think about how this is a true before/after moment. Probably THE before/after moment of our lives.
So what changes in the after?
- Does the way people travel alter? (Less cruising, less global travel all around?)
- Do our social norms and behaviors change (no hand shaking, or worse yet cheek kissing the some cultures do)
- Do we see a huge increase in remote working, outside the shift that is already happening?
- Do we see a reduction in mass gatherings?
What else potentially changes in the after?
Kung Fu movies are like porn. There's 1 on 1, then 2 on 1, then a group scene..
- The Sybian
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Re: Before and After
Short term, yes to all. I think it's going to take us a while to resume shaking hands and feeling safe going to a packed stadium. As for travel, I think a lot of people are going to be hit hard by the economic downturn in addition to a fear of getting on a plane or cruise ship for the first few weeks or months after the restrictions are lifted. Once the curve starts flattening, there are still going to be a lot of people contracting the virus, especially since some people seem to get it twice (could be they are released from hospital and initial infection worsens, rather than second infection).degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:27 am From EdRomero suggestion.
Obviously focus is on getting through this, but it is interesting to think about how this is a true before/after moment. Probably THE before/after moment of our lives.
So what changes in the after?
- Does the way people travel alter? (Less cruising, less global travel all around?)
- Do our social norms and behaviors change (no hand shaking, or worse yet cheek kissing the some cultures do)
- Do we see a huge increase in remote working, outside the shift that is already happening?
- Do we see a reduction in mass gatherings?
What else potentially changes in the after?
As for increased remote working, I think that will depend on how productive people are this month. My first thought was that hesitant employers would see that work from home is productive and feasible for many office jobs, but then I think people are working from home for the first time, and it seems it takes people a bit to get into the swing. Then you have kids trying remote learning for the first time and parents dealing with those issues and keeping kids busy in the afternoon, plus the increased anxiety and news-watching with the virus, so I think employers will get a very bad view of worker productivity. But, who the fuck knows...
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- A_B
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Re: Before and After
I’m using jazz hands instead of handshakes/elbow bumps.
Hold on, I'm trying to see if Jack London ever gets this fire built or not.
Re: Before and After
I think this will increase the number of people working from home. Companies will realize that it will be cheaper in the long run. Therefore the negative effect will be on the commercial real estate market. I don't think it will reduce mass gatherings...if anything there will be a temporary bump after the closures are lifted. Restaurants that survive are going to do gangbusters business.degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:27 am From EdRomero suggestion.
Obviously focus is on getting through this, but it is interesting to think about how this is a true before/after moment. Probably THE before/after moment of our lives.
So what changes in the after?
- Does the way people travel alter? (Less cruising, less global travel all around?)
- Do our social norms and behaviors change (no hand shaking, or worse yet cheek kissing the some cultures do)
- Do we see a huge increase in remote working, outside the shift that is already happening?
- Do we see a reduction in mass gatherings?
What else potentially changes in the after?
I would like expensive whiskey.
We only have beer & wine...
What am I, 12?
We only have beer & wine...
What am I, 12?
Re: Before and After
I think remote working is the biggest one. The rest I don't see a ton of change being effected unless this becomes a catastrophic death event. If 6-10 million people die from touching each other it might ingrain some non-contact stuff in our brains, but that's cultural. I wonder what Japan's rates will look like given the lack of the formal handshake in their culture. Obviously their culture in general is likely going to stymie those rates anyway.degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:27 am From EdRomero suggestion.
Obviously focus is on getting through this, but it is interesting to think about how this is a true before/after moment. Probably THE before/after moment of our lives.
So what changes in the after?
- Does the way people travel alter? (Less cruising, less global travel all around?)
- Do our social norms and behaviors change (no hand shaking, or worse yet cheek kissing the some cultures do)
- Do we see a huge increase in remote working, outside the shift that is already happening?
- Do we see a reduction in mass gatherings?
What else potentially changes in the after?
Dances with Wolves (1) - BSF
"This place was rockin'," said BSF21.
"There is nothing ever uncommon about BSF21."
"This place was rockin'," said BSF21.
"There is nothing ever uncommon about BSF21."
- The Sybian
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Re: Before and After
I think online university degrees will be the big change. My wife was obsessed with MOOCs like 10 years ago. I did a couple courses, too. You could pay a relatively small fee to get college credits or do them for free. I really thought that would have taken off by now. While I think living on campus and meeting people was half of the value of college, costs are astronomical and you can get almost the same value of classroom learning online. With the market tanking, I have to imagine a lot of people who thought they had adequate college savings funds are suddenly not in a position to afford college. This could also be a move towards subsidized tuition. Too bad Bernie is toast.
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Re: Before and After
I think the opposite on remote working. I think after weeks on end of it, most people will realize they want the social contact that going to the office provides.BSF21 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:48 amI think remote working is the biggest one. The rest I don't see a ton of change being effected unless this becomes a catastrophic death event. If 6-10 million people die from touching each other it might ingrain some non-contact stuff in our brains, but that's cultural. I wonder what Japan's rates will look like given the lack of the formal handshake in their culture. Obviously their culture in general is likely going to stymie those rates anyway.degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:27 am From EdRomero suggestion.
Obviously focus is on getting through this, but it is interesting to think about how this is a true before/after moment. Probably THE before/after moment of our lives.
So what changes in the after?
- Does the way people travel alter? (Less cruising, less global travel all around?)
- Do our social norms and behaviors change (no hand shaking, or worse yet cheek kissing the some cultures do)
- Do we see a huge increase in remote working, outside the shift that is already happening?
- Do we see a reduction in mass gatherings?
What else potentially changes in the after?
(Or maybe I'm just projecting.)
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
Re: Before and After
The handshake will become a virtue signal for "anti-snowflake" performative-masculine shitheads.
- degenerasian
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Re: Before and After
I think society was racing out of control so something like this, as bad at it is, might slow people down.
An average family, two working parents and two kids. Both parents have to drop kids off school or daycare, then rush into work. Then rush to pick the kids up. Then take them to extra activities (sports, music etc..). Weekends are jammed with kid's activities or social outings. Then taking one of two trips per year. And raking up personal debt.
An average family, two working parents and two kids. Both parents have to drop kids off school or daycare, then rush into work. Then rush to pick the kids up. Then take them to extra activities (sports, music etc..). Weekends are jammed with kid's activities or social outings. Then taking one of two trips per year. And raking up personal debt.
Kung Fu movies are like porn. There's 1 on 1, then 2 on 1, then a group scene..
- Nonlinear FC
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Re: Before and After
I dunno. I think antiquated places that were holding out, and are now forced to do figure it out are going to rethink their operations. It's a cultural (corporate) thing. I know that's going on where I work... Dragging their feet for the last 5 years and had JUST gotten around to putting a half-ass policy in place, now this... Mandatory telework will sort a lot of shit out, toot sweet.Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:23 amI think the opposite on remote working. I think after weeks on end of it, most people will realize they want the social contact that going to the office provides.BSF21 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:48 amI think remote working is the biggest one. The rest I don't see a ton of change being effected unless this becomes a catastrophic death event. If 6-10 million people die from touching each other it might ingrain some non-contact stuff in our brains, but that's cultural. I wonder what Japan's rates will look like given the lack of the formal handshake in their culture. Obviously their culture in general is likely going to stymie those rates anyway.degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:27 am From EdRomero suggestion.
Obviously focus is on getting through this, but it is interesting to think about how this is a true before/after moment. Probably THE before/after moment of our lives.
So what changes in the after?
- Does the way people travel alter? (Less cruising, less global travel all around?)
- Do our social norms and behaviors change (no hand shaking, or worse yet cheek kissing the some cultures do)
- Do we see a huge increase in remote working, outside the shift that is already happening?
- Do we see a reduction in mass gatherings?
What else potentially changes in the after?
(Or maybe I'm just projecting.)
You can lead a horse to fish, but you can't fish out a horse.
Re: Before and After
I'm not sure what to call it but I'm wondering if or how much this experience will increase the number of "nationalists"...people that believe in closed borders/closed societies. Watching Trump right now and he's still playing the Chinese-virus game...
I would like expensive whiskey.
We only have beer & wine...
What am I, 12?
We only have beer & wine...
What am I, 12?
- degenerasian
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- Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:22 pm
Re: Before and After
Sure. There has already been a multicultural/globalism side and the anti side. This just increases that rhetoric.
Kung Fu movies are like porn. There's 1 on 1, then 2 on 1, then a group scene..
Re: Before and After
Reminds me of this article: https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/bl ... AXhThe5ozgdegenerasian wrote: ↑Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:27 am I think society was racing out of control so something like this, as bad at it is, might slow people down.
An average family, two working parents and two kids. Both parents have to drop kids off school or daycare, then rush into work. Then rush to pick the kids up. Then take them to extra activities (sports, music etc..). Weekends are jammed with kid's activities or social outings. Then taking one of two trips per year. And raking up personal debt.
Just have to change the distribution of wealth a bit. Easy
Re: Before and After
This along with our countries and systems failing so many people is what can lead to revolutions and world wars.degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:49 amSure. There has already been a multicultural/globalism side and the anti side. This just increases that rhetoric.
Re: Before and After
Unless we see a spike in serious hacking of companies who had to rush infrastructure and security in order to allow WFH?Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:35 amI dunno. I think antiquated places that were holding out, and are now forced to do figure it out are going to rethink their operations. It's a cultural (corporate) thing. I know that's going on where I work... Dragging their feet for the last 5 years and had JUST gotten around to putting a half-ass policy in place, now this... Mandatory telework will sort a lot of shit out, toot sweet.
Re: Before and After
There's existing tools and products (and consultants) to mitigate this. It's not new territory.mister d wrote: ↑Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:11 amUnless we see a spike in serious hacking of companies who had to rush infrastructure and security in order to allow WFH?Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:35 amI dunno. I think antiquated places that were holding out, and are now forced to do figure it out are going to rethink their operations. It's a cultural (corporate) thing. I know that's going on where I work... Dragging their feet for the last 5 years and had JUST gotten around to putting a half-ass policy in place, now this... Mandatory telework will sort a lot of shit out, toot sweet.
Re: Before and After
What will happen to preening workplace heroes? Will logging on first and logging out last be their new competitive metric?
- DaveInSeattle
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Re: Before and After
My first thought about what is not coming back, ever is Work Travel. Companies are going to look at all the tele-conferencing options, and think 'Wait...why are we paying Chad to fly across the country, get a rental car, stay in a hotel, and order steak and martinis on our dime when we can just set up a tele-conferencing room?'.
The other thing I agree on is more WFH policies. The same companies are going to look around and think 'Why are we paying for all this expensive real estate, when people can do the same thing at home'.
The other thing I agree on is more WFH policies. The same companies are going to look around and think 'Why are we paying for all this expensive real estate, when people can do the same thing at home'.
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Re: Before and After
The working from home, less business travel and more online education definitely a big deal.
What about sports? People will see that they can get along nicely without certain sports. Could there be a dip in interest?
What about sports? People will see that they can get along nicely without certain sports. Could there be a dip in interest?
"beautiful, with an exotic-yet-familiar facial structure and an arresting gaze."
Re: Before and After
This perfectly describes our company and their paranoia. Though we did already have tools in place for this, VPN, etc.mister d wrote: ↑Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:11 amUnless we see a spike in serious hacking of companies who had to rush infrastructure and security in order to allow WFH?Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:35 amI dunno. I think antiquated places that were holding out, and are now forced to do figure it out are going to rethink their operations. It's a cultural (corporate) thing. I know that's going on where I work... Dragging their feet for the last 5 years and had JUST gotten around to putting a half-ass policy in place, now this... Mandatory telework will sort a lot of shit out, toot sweet.
- govmentchedda
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Re: Before and After
I think watching sports in person will limp back as people remain afraid of contact, but will definitely get back even better than ever.
Until everything is less insane, I'm mixing weed with wine.
Re: Before and After
Not new territory, but I assume there's a massive flood of companies who weren't ready and systems/providers not prepared to handle it?
- degenerasian
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Re: Before and After
NFL is going to get even more fans if they start on time in September.
Kung Fu movies are like porn. There's 1 on 1, then 2 on 1, then a group scene..
Re: Before and After
Get the free game pass and do some catching up
Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
Re: Before and After
It would be nice to have relations again at some point. No idea how that's gonna happen.
- Nonlinear FC
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Re: Before and After
Really elaborate WFH set-ups, including the backdrop for video conferencing/meetings.
You can lead a horse to fish, but you can't fish out a horse.
Re: Before and After
Yeah, I bought the DVD release of all 7 games of the Rockets 1994 championship and it's never been opened in the 15 years or so I've had it. I lose all interest in watching a game if I know the result.
well this is gonna be someone's new signature - bronto
Re: Before and After
This is really what I do for a living. I think the hybrid model is going to really take off. There are some classes that have to be in person(Arts, Labs, etc...) Universities have an enormous sunk cost in facilities that they can't just stop using and the purely online options like WGU/Phoenix have other problems. Some students really need the in person class experience. I have had to work with several faculty members this week where they had students take over their online lectures in Zoom. Playing music, spamming chat, yelling profanities, etc...The Sybian wrote: ↑Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:06 am I think online university degrees will be the big change. My wife was obsessed with MOOCs like 10 years ago. I did a couple courses, too. You could pay a relatively small fee to get college credits or do them for free. I really thought that would have taken off by now. While I think living on campus and meeting people was half of the value of college, costs are astronomical and you can get almost the same value of classroom learning online. With the market tanking, I have to imagine a lot of people who thought they had adequate college savings funds are suddenly not in a position to afford college. This could also be a move towards subsidized tuition. Too bad Bernie is toast.
Re: Before and After
This is arrived in my email while I was typing in the swamp:
One class had students dancing in costumes, doing shots, and one kid buffing his trumpet
Re: Before and After
We hired a new Dean of the Libraries about a year ago. He's now only in the Libraries about 30-40% of the time as he's taken on the online ventures for CU. CSU has been killing it for years with their online MBA and I guess we want a piece of that sweet sweet pie.
Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
- DaveInSeattle
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Re: Before and After
I have a niece who's doing an online MBA through Villanova. She lives in Madison, WI.Rush2112 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:47 pm We hired a new Dean of the Libraries about a year ago. He's now only in the Libraries about 30-40% of the time as he's taken on the online ventures for CU. CSU has been killing it for years with their online MBA and I guess we want a piece of that sweet sweet pie.
Re: Before and After
My wife is getting her MHA through CSU.Rush2112 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:47 pm We hired a new Dean of the Libraries about a year ago. He's now only in the Libraries about 30-40% of the time as he's taken on the online ventures for CU. CSU has been killing it for years with their online MBA and I guess we want a piece of that sweet sweet pie.
well this is gonna be someone's new signature - bronto
Re: Before and After
Grad school is a completely different beast. I don't see a reason why most grad degrees can't be online. CSU has a great online program. The group that runs it knows their stuff. Georgia Tech is one I've considered for a data science master's degree. Cheap and high quality.
Re: Before and After
Perhaps the best argument for attending graduate-level classes in person is to make contacts for your future career.testuser2 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:09 pm Grad school is a completely different beast. I don't see a reason why most grad degrees can't be online. CSU has a great online program. The group that runs it knows their stuff. Georgia Tech is one I've considered for a data science master's degree. Cheap and high quality.
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- degenerasian
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Re: Before and After
why would undergrad be different? Volume of student? More exams? Hacking?testuser2 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:09 pm Grad school is a completely different beast. I don't see a reason why most grad degrees can't be online. CSU has a great online program. The group that runs it knows their stuff. Georgia Tech is one I've considered for a data science master's degree. Cheap and high quality.
Kung Fu movies are like porn. There's 1 on 1, then 2 on 1, then a group scene..
Re: Before and After
Maturity, content, and class size. For many, undergrad is just an extension of high school.degenerasian wrote: ↑Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:14 pm why would undergrad be different? Volume of student? More exams? Hacking?
Re: Before and After
As for work, the Air Force is going to go back to what it was doing before. There will still be work travel ("TDYs" or "temporary duty" as we call it and obviously deployments); there will definitely be asses in seats full time all the time during the work day; and we will still have forced gatherings ("mandatory fun" events, commanders calls..etc.) because changing the culture starts at the top and slides down, never the opposite.
Socially, I hope we all wash our hands more. I'm also not going to shake hands unless force of habit kicks in.
And I'm far too cynical to think anything permanently good comes from this. Baggage fees from a bailed out group of airlines will return under bullshit conditions. And high speed internet will be throttled back down in favor of profit margins. Etc, etc..
Socially, I hope we all wash our hands more. I'm also not going to shake hands unless force of habit kicks in.
And I'm far too cynical to think anything permanently good comes from this. Baggage fees from a bailed out group of airlines will return under bullshit conditions. And high speed internet will be throttled back down in favor of profit margins. Etc, etc..
mister d wrote:Couldn't have pegged me better.
EnochRoot wrote:I mean, whatever. Johnnie's all hot cuz I ride him.