The Captain Trips Anxiety thread

[tennbengal]

And our next door neighbors had friends over yesterday, for at least the 4th weekend in a row. So much stupidity around.

Can I ask - did they have them over and sit outdoors with them? Because I don't really see a problem with that.

[rass]

And our next door neighbors had friends over yesterday, for at least the 4th weekend in a row. So much stupidity around.

Can I ask - did they have them over and sit outdoors with them? Because I don't really see a problem with that.

Where do they go pee pee TB?

[BSF21]

And our next door neighbors had friends over yesterday, for at least the 4th weekend in a row. So much stupidity around.

Can I ask - did they have them over and sit outdoors with them? Because I don't really see a problem with that.

This is what we've done a few times. Driveway drinks. If it's late, buddies piss out back. If it's normal humans, we've sanitized one of our bathrooms that becomes the dedicated guest bathroom. And it's not multiples, always another couple that's been cohabing as well.

I know it's selfish, but I've got to start to have some normalcy and stability and the steps we're taking seem to be the safest option. I'm having more bad days than good with my mental health right now.

I had mom and dad over for mothers day on Saturday. We sat in my yard in lawn chairs. I couldn't hug my mum. That sucked.

[tennbengal]

And our next door neighbors had friends over yesterday, for at least the 4th weekend in a row. So much stupidity around.

Can I ask - did they have them over and sit outdoors with them? Because I don't really see a problem with that.

Where do they go pee pee TB?

Indoors? One at a time rather than communally? (unless they are into that, I guess)

[tennbengal]

And our next door neighbors had friends over yesterday, for at least the 4th weekend in a row. So much stupidity around.

Can I ask - did they have them over and sit outdoors with them? Because I don't really see a problem with that.

This is what we've done a few times. Driveway drinks. If it's late, buddies piss out back. If it's normal humans, we've sanitized one of our bathrooms that becomes the dedicated guest bathroom. And it's not multiples, always another couple that's been cohabing as well.

I know it's selfish, but I've got to start to have some normalcy and stability and the steps we're taking seem to be the safest option. I'm having more bad days than good with my mental health right now.

I had mom and dad over for mothers day on Saturday. We sat in my yard in lawn chairs. I couldn't hug my mum. That sucked.

I am on this side of things.

Full disclosure, we did something similar Saturday night. Seven of us, outside, socially distanced by couple / group. One person at a time into the house if they needed to piss. I guess I don't see that as MORE dangerous than when I go the grocery store. Far less, actually.

[mister d]

Grocery stores are necessity versus backyard hangouts?

[duff]

Grocery stores are necessity versus backyard hangouts?

Exactly.

[A_B]

If you see a friend at the grovery store do you ignore them or do you say hellp to catch up?

Don't see much difference in a neighbor walking the dog and you having a chat wtih them from porch to sidewalk or what not. And the bathroom thing...yeah just wash your hands really good like you should be anyway. I've had to go to the bathroom at the grocery store which I would wager is worse than good friends using ours.

[rass]

No way to quantify the number of people you are exposed to vs the term of exposure for one scenario vs the other. As long as we all admit that hanging out with a group of people under any circumstances is MORE dangerous than not and that you and BSF and whoever else here are likely more conscientious of taking proper precautions than a lot of other people will be, and that normalizing these sorts of smaller gatherings will lead to people pushing at those limits, too. Then yeah, no problem.

I understand (or at least can sympathize with) the forces at play mentally and socially, and maybe if we didn't have youngish kids I'd be one of those pushing for a front yard neighborhood hangout. But I don't think our area is ready for that to be normalized again, and given the shoddy nature of local and national government handling of the entire pandemic, it's tough to know where it would be "safe" for that to be the case.

[tennbengal]

Grocery stores are necessity versus backyard hangouts?

Am I the asshole for going to grocery stores rather than getting it delivered? Or should I just make the poor bastard doing my personal shopping and delivery do my dirty work for me on that score?

All guidance is showing that indoors the risk of exposure is a multitude higher than outdoors. Is my mental health in wanting to see friends outdoors six feet apart while wearing masks worth that risk?

Yes, actually.

[tennbengal]

Spoiler alert - people are NOT going to be able to stay inside for the next two years.

[GoodKarma]

And our next door neighbors had friends over yesterday, for at least the 4th weekend in a row. So much stupidity around.

Can I ask - did they have them over and sit outdoors with them? Because I don't really see a problem with that.

This is what we've done a few times. Driveway drinks. If it's late, buddies piss out back. If it's normal humans, we've sanitized one of our bathrooms that becomes the dedicated guest bathroom. And it's not multiples, always another couple that's been cohabing as well.

I know it's selfish, but I've got to start to have some normalcy and stability and the steps we're taking seem to be the safest option. I'm having more bad days than good with my mental health right now.

I had mom and dad over for mothers day on Saturday. We sat in my yard in lawn chairs. I couldn't hug my mum. That sucked.

I am in this camp as well. We have 4-5 neighbors over at a time outside only; only go into the house to use the bathroom if you absolutely have to. No meals. I justify it because we all know each other well and we're all going to the same places and doing the same things.

A harsh reality that I don't think gets discussed or covered in the media very well is that this "thing" will be with us well into next year at the very least. The risk is going to be the same the entire time. It is reasonable to ask people to quarantine for a limited amount of time but the reality is that the longer it goes on the more people were going to start to revolt. I've reached the point of open every thing up except still ban large gatherings (concerts, sporting events, etc.), enforce an updated max occupancy rule, require masks and see what happens.

[tennbengal]

Golf courses are open. A necessity, Mr. D?

[mister d]

My "Eat. Sleep. Golf." t-shirt speaks for itself.

[mister d]

Am I the asshole for going to grocery stores rather than getting it delivered? Or should I just make the poor bastard doing my personal shopping and delivery do my dirty work for me on that score?

Already answered this one.

All guidance is showing that indoors the risk of exposure is a multitude higher than outdoors. Is my mental health in wanting to see friends outdoors six feet apart while wearing masks worth that risk?

Larger scale, if everyone does this, does anyone anywhere kill a friend? And then smaller scale, was it really worth it just to hang out?

[tennbengal]

Yes. I reject that we can continue to sit at home 24/7 for the next two years. If people can golf, and go to the beach, and go to state parks (all of which is now permissible in Maryland as of middle of last week), then I can sit with five friends in a driveway six feet apart with masks.

[Nonlinear FC]

And our next door neighbors had friends over yesterday, for at least the 4th weekend in a row. So much stupidity around.

Can I ask - did they have them over and sit outdoors with them? Because I don't really see a problem with that.

This is what we've done a few times. Driveway drinks. If it's late, buddies piss out back. If it's normal humans, we've sanitized one of our bathrooms that becomes the dedicated guest bathroom. And it's not multiples, always another couple that's been cohabing as well.

I know it's selfish, but I've got to start to have some normalcy and stability and the steps we're taking seem to be the safest option. I'm having more bad days than good with my mental health right now.

I had mom and dad over for mothers day on Saturday. We sat in my yard in lawn chairs. I couldn't hug my mum. That sucked.

I am on this side of things.

Full disclosure, we did something similar Saturday night. Seven of us, outside, socially distanced by couple / group. One person at a time into the house if they needed to piss. I guess I don't see that as MORE dangerous than when I go the grocery store. Far less, actually.

This is where we're at in our 'hood group of friends. Has happened (for us) only three times so far. Going to happen again this Wednesday for my wife's 50th.

[Ryan]

I say this with zero sarcasm:

I "thank god" for 2 things every day. That I have a job that should allow me to work from home for the foreseeable future. And that I don't have that mental need to go hang out with people to keep me going. Only child syndrome maybe? Kids are enough social energy? Asking Rass 10 questions a week makes me curl into a ball?

Weirdly glad that's just not a driver in my life right now.

When I inevitably have to get gas for the lawn mower, it will be the first time since early March that anyone in this house has been anywhere other than walking the neighborhood or driving around just to drive around. And planning for that is already a thing.

So everyone's got something.

[EdRomero]

Grocery stores are necessity versus backyard hangouts?

Exactly.

What percentage of people in grocery stores right now have to be there? Or at the very least could have reduced the amount of trips they make? People "needing" to go to stores is a bigger problem than people responsibly hanging out in someone's backyard.

[degenerasian]

I feel like we're going to be indoors a year or two. Or, at best, we'll have schools like this:

This is a video a school in Quebec put out on what they can expect. Would you send your kids to learn in this type of environment?

[Nonlinear FC]

Grocery stores are necessity versus backyard hangouts?

Exactly.

What percentage of people in grocery stores right now have to be there? Or at the very least could have reduced the amount of trips they make? People "needing" to go to stores is a bigger problem than people responsibly hanging out in someone's backyard.

The last time I went to the store (last Friday), it was kind of an ordeal. The store I've been going to is kind of like a very much scaled down Whole Foods, and up until last Friday it was kind of a slightly hidden gem.

Waaaaay too many people in the store. Sign out front said no more than 40, but no one is monitoring for that, and there had to be about 75-90 ppl in there. Made social distancing pretty much impossible.

Everyone had masks on, though some ppl don't understand that the mask needs to cover their nose? wtf?

[mister d]

Grocery stores are necessity versus backyard hangouts?

Exactly.

What percentage of people in grocery stores right now have to be there? Or at the very least could have reduced the amount of trips they make? People "needing" to go to stores is a bigger problem than people responsibly hanging out in someone's backyard.

I've gone 3 times in 7 weeks, which is the extent of my "in a building that isn't my house" activities.

(And I'll again issue my caveat that I know things are different here present day and its a matter of me thinking this will pass to most decently populated areas eventually if they relax.)

[degenerasian]

Does your supermarket have one-way lanes down all the aisles? I've gone a few times and as long as I'm wearing a mask and following the one way arrows I find it quite safe. I even use the self-checkout to avoid the cashier.

[mister d]

Yup. Line ups outside that took almost a 1/2 hour then arrows in all the aisles, plastic guards at the registers, all that.

[Nonlinear FC]

Does your supermarket have one-way lanes down all the aisles? I've gone a few times and as long as I'm wearing a mask and following the one way arrows I find it quite safe. I even use the self-checkout to avoid the cashier.

The big chains do, or at least the one I've been to did. But this place is called Fresh Market and they just don't have their shit together, other than installing sneeze guards at checkout pretty early on.

Over the last 7-8 weeks, I've been to the grocery store 4 times and to Total Wine 3 times. And to the medical marijuana place once.

[The Sybian]

While we are debating appropriate behavior, I've been going back and forth on one friend's decision to drive into NYC with her entire family and post (truly amazing) pictures on FaceBook. Most were B&W, truly haunting pics like one of Times Square completely fucking empty in the middle of the day with a sign saying something to the effect of "we will survive this together" and a great one of a young guy in an expensive looking suit and briefcase crossing an empty street with a Bain-ish looking face mask. I thought it was bizarre to go into NYC if you don't need to right now, then she mentioned she had her husband and kids with her. She wrote that they all stayed in the car the entire time, and she would get out to take pics. I mean, if you are just in your car, that should be OK, but OTOH, why the fuck go into NYC and act like a tourist to the apocalypse? OTOH, she really documented the severity of the state of the City with some amazing pics.

As background, this woman is the center of all drama in town, and used to drag my wife into a lot of it. Until my wife became the center of some bizarre fabricated drama and we socially distanced from them for 3 or 4 years. Her daughter played on the travel soccer team when I coached, and she was always trying to cause drama. Despite us being close friends for 10 years, she complained about me to the rest of the team parents, who all took my side and came to me to tell me what she was saying. All that aside, she has been pushing getting our kids together since the day schools closed. Her kids are both the same age as mine. Our sons have been best friends since they were 2, and our daughters since birth. They went to pre-school together and we lived 3 doors down from them.

We had a one-day closing a week before lockdown, as one of the first NJ COVID cases was in my town. The mother called my wife numerous times trying to get the name of the COVID-positive person in town, because they were in one of her hospitals. She even called me to find out if my wife knew the name (she did), but I lied. She was freaking out, saying if they had kids in the school system (they did), that we all needed to know. Anyways, her desperate for attention daughter suddenly had all the symptoms of COVID that night, and she called my wife freaking out, and called another friend who is a doctor, who went to their house and said she didn't have COVID. No test, and keep in mind this was before anyone knew anything about COVID yet. She claimed to have a fever. Next day, the mother calls me saying she is going to give my daughter a ride home from school, and bring her back to their house. I didn't know about the supposed fever the day before, because my wife didn't tell me yet. My wife finds out I let our daughter go to their house the day after their daughter is claiming a fever, sore throat, coughing, etc... and then begging to let my daughter sleep over.

In the beginning of lockdown, we let our kids play outside with the kids next door, but no trampoline or basketball or anything where they touched. We all agreed we wouldn't let our kids play with anyone else, and we were both on strict lockdown. Until the drama lady rolls up in front of my driveway and drops her kids off. I later learn they each had 3 or 4 playdates with other kids earlier in the day. In the other kids' houses. But hey, it's just one kid at a time. No fucking concept of being in 8 separate houses then dumping them in my driveway and leaving is the same exposure for my kids as being in contact with every member of all of those households. My kids were instantly uncomfortable, because they knew it was wrong, and the girl was trying to hug my daughter. From seeing her Facebook posts, I don't think she has gone a single day without traveling around town going to numerous people's houses. Always shopping and dropping off make-at-home pizza kits or some bullshit to several friends and making sure everyone knows about it. I see her at my neighbors house at least 3 times a week, so we had to keep our kids away from the neighbor kids. Yet she will post shit on FB bashing the protesters and making sure everyone knows she is the perfect rule-following citizen, and she bitched to me about how thick her parents are because they dropped something off at her house.

Wow, that took a turn into venting I wasn't expecting. I didn't even get into the week her daughter was hospitalized in my wife's system without a diagnosis. Coincidentally a few weeks after a girl on the daughter's softball team died and became the central focus of our town for months, but I've written far too much already.

[EdRomero]

Grocery stores are necessity versus backyard hangouts?

Exactly.

What percentage of people in grocery stores right now have to be there? Or at the very least could have reduced the amount of trips they make? People "needing" to go to stores is a bigger problem than people responsibly hanging out in someone's backyard.

I've gone 3 times in 7 weeks, which is the extent of my "in a building that isn't my house" activities.

(And I'll again issue my caveat that I know things are different here present day and its a matter of me thinking this will pass to most decently populated areas eventually if they relax.)

To do what you're doing you need to have the knowledge of the seriousness of the pandemic and the means of preventing the spread, the financial capability (and storage space) to stock up, and the ability to plan out menus and how to make food last. I'd say that's about 10% of the population.

They shut everything down, but kept hardware stores, supermarkets, liquor stores, convenience stores, and Dunkin Donuts open with few restrictions and then slowly, very slowly, implemented restrictions. It took about 2 months in Massachusetts to require people to wear masks in stores and to have those one line aisles that people can't manage. We went from Fauci saying to go outside for a run (without mentioning masks) to two months later to everyone outside in my town required to wear a mask. It's the absolute worst way to manage a crisis -- make some limitations and then add more as we go along.

[degenerasian]

Rass: what a drama queen, where do people get the energy?

I know a co-worker like this. She think this whole thing is a hoax and goes everywhere, even into the office when she shouldn't, but makes sure her mother doesn't leave the house.

[mister d]

To do what you're doing you need to have the knowledge of the seriousness of the pandemic and the means of preventing the spread, the financial capability (and storage space) to stock up, and the ability to plan out menus and how to make food last. I'd say that's about 10% of the population.

Absolutely, esp on the ability to bulk shop, which means that my dumb role in all this is to not add daily or weekly volume for people who can't and the supermarket workers and definitely not be the guy who walked out when I was on line carrying flowers and two (good) bottles of vinegar.

[mister d]

Rass: what a drama queen, where do people get the energy?

Wow, all north jersey people look alike to you???

[Ryan]

An aside - I would make sure that any business I owned going forward sold food. It's amazing what was able/allowed to stay open here. I'm going to open a store that sells random baseball facts, maps of minor league baseball leagues, and bread.

[Pruitt]

I read that the South African government banned the sale of alcohol and tobacco during the quarantine.

The level of anger and desperation must be off the charts.

[A_B]

I read that the South African government banned the sale of alcohol and tobacco during the quarantine.

The level of anger and desperation must be off the charts.

I've seen studies that showed that lack of access to alcohol is just as bad as not as it relates to domestic violence.

[sancarlos]

I read that the South African government banned the sale of alcohol and tobacco during the quarantine.

The level of anger and desperation must be off the charts.

Yeah, like Ryan said, I am cruising through this with very little problem. But, if they were to take away alcohol...

[EdRomero]

I read that the South African government banned the sale of alcohol and tobacco during the quarantine.

The level of anger and desperation must be off the charts.

I've seen studies that showed that lack of access to alcohol is just as bad as not as it relates to domestic violence.

Maybe it's not realistic, but it would have been nice if the country could have invested in creating a better curbside pickup/delivery system. There are a handful of liquor stores and small grocers that do it where I live.

[EdRomero]

As for anxiety, the Covid virus affecting children in NYC with this new mystery disease has potential to cause some insanity.

[The Sybian]

As for anxiety, the Covid virus affecting children in NYC with this new mystery disease has potential to cause some insanity.

Yes, several cases in NJ as well. Very bizarre, and no explanation yet. From what I understand, it's not the virus causing the issue, it's an aggressive immune response. The kids with the issue seem to have the antibodies, but no longer have the virus. They are having severe inflammation of blood vessels, and very quickly go into organ failure.

[degenerasian]

Rass: what a drama queen, where do people get the energy?

Wow, all north jersey people look alike to you???

ack, sorry. That's how disturbing the story was to me, lost my mind.

[tennbengal]

This article is really on point with our discussion on what is okay and what is not and some of the drivers of that conversation:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... lp/611482/

In the earliest years of the HIV epidemic, confusion and fear reigned. AIDS was still known as the “gay plague.” To the extent that gay men received any health advice at all, it was to avoid sex. In 1983, the activists Richard Berkowitz and Michael Callen, with guidance from the virologist Joseph Sonnabend, published a foundational document for their community, called “How to Have Sex in an Epidemic.” Recognizing the need for pleasure in people’s lives, the pamphlet rejected abstinence as the sole approach and provided some of the earliest guidance on safer sex for gay men, including recommendations about condoms and which sex acts had a lower or higher risk for disease transmission.

Public-health experts have known for decades that an abstinence-only message doesn’t work for sex. It doesn’t work for substance use, either. Likewise, asking Americans to abstain from nearly all in-person social contact will not hold the coronavirus at bay—at least not forever.

#StayHome had its moment. The United States urgently needed to flatten the curve and buy time to scale up health-care capacity, testing, and contact tracing. But quarantine fatigue is real. I’m not talking about the people who are staging militaristic protests against the supposed coronavirus hoax. I’m talking about those who are experiencing the profound burden of extreme physical and social distancing. In addition to the economic hardship it causes, isolation can severely damage psychological well-being, especially for people who were already depressed or anxious before the crisis started. In a recent poll by the Kaiser Family Foundation, nearly half of Americans said that the coronavirus pandemic has harmed their mental health.

Meanwhile, most public-health experts agree that a premature return to the old version of normalcy would be disastrous. States continue to lack the capacity for widespread coronavirus testing or contact tracing. Serologic testing to date suggests that the majority of the population is still susceptible to infection. A vaccine is months or even years away. New cases continue to rise, with thousands of people dying each day, and those numbers will inevitably increase if communities go back to business as usual.

But the choice between staying home indefinitely and returning to business as usual now is a false one. Risk is not binary. And an all-or-nothing approach to disease prevention can have unintended consequences. Individuals may fixate on unlikely sources of contagion—the package in the mail, the runner or cyclist on the street—while undervaluing precautions, such as cloth masks, that are imperfect but helpful.

Public-health campaigns that promote the total elimination of risk, such as abstinence-only sex education, are a missed opportunity to support lower-risk behaviors that are more sustainable in the long term. Abstinence-only education is not just ineffective, but it’s been associated with worse health outcomes, in part because it deprives people of an understanding of how to reduce their risk if they do choose to have sex. And without a nuanced approach to risk, abstinence-only messaging can inadvertently stigmatize anything less than 100 percent risk reduction. Americans have seen this unfold in real time over the past two months as pandemic shaming—the invective, online and in person, directed at those perceived as violating social-distancing rules—has become a national pastime.

The anger behind shaming is understandable. Photos of crowded beaches or videos of people at a large indoor party may make viewers feel as if they’re watching coronavirus transmission in action. Calling out seemingly dangerous behavior can also provide an illusion of control at a time when it’s particularly hard to come by. But, as years of research on HIV prevention have shown, shaming doesn’t eliminate risky behavior—it just drives it underground. Even today, many gay men hesitate to disclose their sexual history to health-care providers because of the stigma that they anticipate. Shaming people for their behavior can backfire.

Berkowitz and Callen knew that indefinite abstinence wasn’t realistic for everyone, and instead of shaming, tried to give gay men the tools they needed to be able to have sex with a low but non-zero risk of HIV transmission. In essence, this is the harm-reduction model, which recognizes that some people are going to take risks, whether public-health experts want them to or not—and instead of condemnation, offers them strategies to reduce any potential harms. This approach meets people where they are and acknowledges that individual-level decisions happen in a broader context, which may include factors that are out of people’s control.

What does harm reduction look like for the coronavirus? First, policy makers and health experts can help the public differentiate between lower-risk and higher-risk activities; these authorities can also offer support for the lower-risk ones when sustained abstinence isn’t an option. Scientists still have a lot to learn about this new virus, but early epidemiological studies suggest that not all activities or settings confer an equal risk for coronavirus transmission. Enclosed and crowded settings, especially with prolonged and close contact, have the highest risk of transmission, while casual interaction in outdoor settings seems to be much lower risk. A sustainable anti-coronavirus strategy would still advise against house parties. But it could also involve redesigning outdoor and indoor spaces to reduce crowding, increase ventilation, and promote physical distancing, thereby allowing people to live their lives while mitigating—but not eliminating—risk.

Second, health experts can also acknowledge the contextual factors that affect both a person’s decisions and their risk of coronavirus transmission. Some people are seeking human contact outside of their households because of intense loneliness, anxiety, or a desire for pleasure. The decision to go for a run with a friend or gather in a park with extended family may be in conflict with current public-health guidance in some communities, but for some people, the low risk of coronavirus transmission in these settings may be outweighed by the health benefits of human connection, exercise, and being outdoors. We can also acknowledge that some people can’t comply with public-health guidance because of structural factors, including systemic racism, that render physical distancing a privilege. If we ignore this broader context, people of color will continue to bear the brunt of not only the pandemic itself, but also American society’s response to it.

Third, Americans can accept that, despite our best efforts, some people will choose to engage in higher-risk activities—and instead of shaming them, we can provide them with tools to reduce any potential harms. Want to see your grandkids? Still planning to have that party? Meet up outside. Don’t share food or drinks. Wear masks. Keep your hands clean. And stay home if you’re sick.

As long as the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is silenced, local and state health departments, epidemiologists, and clinicians may need to lead the way. The New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene and faculty from Harvard Medical School each created guidance on sexual health during the coronavirus pandemic that could provide a road map for a harm-reduction approach to socializing, work environments, schools, and other settings. They communicated the urgent need for physical distancing and the idea that, as the New York document puts it, “you are your safest sex partner.” At the same time, the New York and Harvard guidelines implicitly acknowledge that some people may choose to have sex within or outside of their households and offer tips to reduce harm in different potential scenarios, making the risk continuum clear.

The U.S. is in the midst of an infectious-disease crisis that has wrought global devastation and taken the lives of more than 75,000 Americans to date, with no end in sight. But, as other epidemics have shown, trying to shame people into 100 percent risk reduction will be counterproductive. What Americans need now is a manual on how to have a life in a pandemic. If no one else provides the guidance that the CDC won’t, each of us will need to figure out our own.

[degenerasian]

This article is really on point with our discussion on what is okay and what is not and some of the drivers of that conversation:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... lp/611482/

This is really on point and a good comparison. But there's always one thing that would have changed everything.

What if Magic Johnson had died of AIDS? That would have been a game changer.