The WH Transition Thread --- all things Trump to Biden until Inauguration

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:50 am

Brontoburglar wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:47 am
mister d wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:41 am He's not qualified and everyone jumping through hoops to defend the choice wouldn't do so if it were a Republican.
flipside, no one would be criticizing it either because of where it ranks on the give a shit scale and it's only a "thing" because of PB's profile

it's barely a blip if it's a mayor of a similarly-sized city that didn't run for president

I think you actually made Mr. D's point. He is pissed that Biden or the DNC is rewarding Pete for dropping out when he did, handing the nomination to Biden rather than Bernie or Warren, who were splitting the Progressive vote.

BSF21 · Post by **BSF21** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:50 am

Pete seems to be willing to listen and consult others regarding problems. I did read his book (which obviously paints him in a certain light), but I was very impressed at the scope of the initiatives put forth to actually work on South Bend's problems as a dying midwestern city. He did work to improver infrastructure in a smart and cost conscious way. He's young and dynamic and by all accounts (and who really knows because politics) but kind to others. He's a great person to be a part of that group of people making decisions at this time. And as dumb as American politics are, it's a correct choice on the fact that it in no way exerts any pressure on Dems to replace him in any facet by another Dem. He's a free agent.

I agree that choices should fact some scrutiny and we shouldn't just be able to return to "well Trump appointed his buddies so why can't we?" but I think if you're looking for ill-qualified and unsuited for a prime job in government, you're gonna need to find a different scapegoat.

Post by **brian** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:52 am

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:41 am He's not qualified and everyone jumping through hoops to defend the choice wouldn't do so if it were a Republican.

Trump appointing someone with experience in government for literally almost any Cabinet post would have been welcomed with open arms by me.

duff · Post by **duff** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:31 pm

People in general pad their resumes with shit all the time. I don't get how doing that for politics is any different.

And it won't matter. He will be in that position for 3 years (maybe 2 1/2) and then start his campaign for the governorship of Indiana. And after 8 years in Indy, maybe a Senate seat a la Evan Bayh. And then who knows, maybe another run at the Presidency only to concede and get another seat at the big kids table.

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:28 pm

The Sybian wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:50 amI think you actually made Mr. D's point. He is pissed that Biden or the DNC is rewarding Pete for dropping out when he did, handing the nomination to Biden rather than Bernie or Warren, who were splitting the Progressive vote.

And of course, Buttigieg only "handed" the nomination to Biden under the Sanders theory that even if the majority of Dem primary voters soundly rejected him, he'd be entitled to the nomination if the votes for other candidates were split so that he had more than any other individual candidate.

Bernie wasn't getting more than 30-35 percent before Buttigieg dropped out, and he didn't get more than 30-35 percent after.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:14 pm

Ok, now finish out that math, Steve. Who knew they would benefit from Buttigieg dropping out and then did so?

Post by **brian** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:20 pm

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:14 pm Ok, now finish out that math, Steve. Who knew they would benefit from Buttigieg dropping out and then did so?

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:38 pm

You could just use your fingers, bud.

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:48 pm

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:14 pm Ok, now finish out that math, Steve. Who knew they would benefit from Buttigieg dropping out and then did so?

The guy who had just gotten 49 percent of the primary vote in SC knew that he would likely get a small benefit from the dropping out of the guy who had just gotten 8 percent (and the woman who had gotten 3 percent). Just as we all did.

But that was always going to happen once one candidate got 49 percent in the first major southern primary and another had gotten 8. Just as has always happened in every multi-candidate primary process. So the argument that Buttigieg's dropout is evidence of a quid-pro-quo is pretty weak.

Everyone, including Biden and Buttigieg and Klobuchar (and millions of others) wanted to make sure Trump lost and wanted the strongest Dem candidate possible out there. Most folks also wanted to make sure we didn't have an ugly primary season and convention situation where a guy rejected by 2/3 of the party claimed a right to the nomination. So the interests of Buttigieg and Klobuchar and Biden aligned. And action that is consistent with the interests of all those people is not evidence of nefariousness.

Edit: Put another way, we all benefited from Buttigieg dropping out. We all knew we would. And we all did.

psunate77 · Post by **psunate77** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:09 pm

CNN reporting a WH insider said DT will not leave the WH on Jan 20 and will stay beyond the inauguration.

P.D.X. · Post by **P.D.X.** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:18 pm

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:48 pm Edit: Put another way, we all benefited from Buttigieg dropping out. We all knew we would. And we all did.

Especially Buttigieg wink wink

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:43 pm

P.D.X. wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:18 pm
Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:48 pm Edit: Put another way, we all benefited from Buttigieg dropping out. We all knew we would. And we all did.
Especially Buttigieg wink wink

That sweet, sweet Transportation gig, that pays $200K but you have to pay for housing in DC to do it.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:46 pm

Nevermind, maybe I was wrong about this one.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 4:04 pm

Nevermind, maybe I was wrong about this one.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 4:19 pm

Oh come on, you can't possibly know what you love at that age.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 4:20 pm

Look, establishment liberal friends, it's really not hard to say the words and admit:

"Pete Buttigieg got this gig because he dropped when he did in the Democratic primary. He was owed something in the Biden Administration. Here's his gift."

That's literally my entire position on this. Any human beings in this administration are going to be far better than the ones in the previous administration. (Except for Mattis.)

He wasn't polling well with black people and the circus car came to a crashing halt when James Clyburn endorsed Biden and the establishment said "Rally around Biden, now." They saw Bernie winning the primary because Klobuchar and Buttigieg were splitting the vote. And the establishment can't have that.

The Human Centristpede was formed. That's politics. He played his hand exceptionally well and he is set up for bigger things in the future. He'll probably be Harris' Veep choice in 2024, honestly.

He's a good dude and I wish him well. He's also a teacher's pet/know-it-all kinda dude, so he'll give it his all at the job. I hope he does well. It doesn't mean I cannot criticize this. And don't move the progressives shouldn't be criticizing goal posts because I fucking voted for Biden because Trump was a threat.

But please stop acting like when a liberal appoints someone who isn't exactly qualified to a position it's brilliant but when a conservative does it it'll plunge America into hell. It looks foolish.

Lastly, this juxtaposition is hilarious to me: 'Paving for Pizza': Domino's to fill potholes in South Bend

Post by **brian** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 4:38 pm

I guess until today I didn't realize that Mayor Pete was the real villain who ultimately brought down Bernie Sanders.

duff · Post by **duff** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 5:32 pm

Bernie had no shot at the nomination. Pete didn't either. He knew after SC that he had no shot and dropped out. Just like many do in a multi-candidate race. His endorsement (or Klobachar) did not push Biden in the lead. It was the fact that Biden was going to do well with the majority of African-Americans and your Midwestern Dems. Bernie does not win MI, WI, or PA.

And seriously, what is the big fucking deal about giving an upstart in the party (albeit not a progressive) a position in the cabinet? It seriously happens everygoddamnfuckingtime. Those positions are never about experience unless we are talking Defense, State, Treasury, and Homeland Security. You chose the people that best fit your agenda. Plain and simple. I just don't get the constant complaining about everything Biden may/may not do.

psunate77 · Post by **psunate77** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:03 pm

I expect people like Ron Johnson, Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, Jim Jordan to object.

Square Rob · Post by **Square Rob** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 6:43 am

Johnnie, I normally agree with you as you are mostly pragmatic on this stuff. I honestly could give two shits if there was a quid pro quo in something like this. There’s nothing even really bad about it. This is exactly how politics within the system should work. Hell, I’d even be ok with Biden giving an R a cabinet spot if it helped buy some centrist R votes on a key piece of legislation later down the road. Politics is always a give and take. Besides that, this really gives Pete a chance to earn his chops and show he can navigate and work in DC. Like it or not he was not going to win in the primary and definitely wouldn’t have beaten Trump.

And if there actually is a ‘for real’ infrastructure push this ends up being a difficult job. I really hope this is a sign that there will be as holy shit the first party to really push a massive stimulus driven by infrastructure spending is going to reap a lot of benefits. It’s one focus that frankly the majority of the country is behind and it would creat millions of additional jobs.

Square Rob · Post by **Square Rob** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 6:47 am

For anyone that listens to the slate gabfest, as per my point above, I strongly agree with Plotz that smoky back room deals are good in politics, and HAVE to happen or you end up with the highly partisan calcified congress we currently have. Where every single act has to be a pander to the edges of your party and everything is passed with distinct party line separation. It’s in the margins in the middle that you can actually accomplish meaningful changes and move the needle in a meaningful way that you want.

Square Rob · Post by **Square Rob** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 6:48 am

So I guess I’m outing myself as a legislative centrist. Even if i believe in very liberal ideals, I see no path to getting there without some compromise with the center right.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:50 am

My beef is and will always be consistency.

You (the royal you) cannot be blasé on Mayor Pete getting this gig when the previous administration did the same thing and you (the royal you) raised a stink.

You (the royal you) cannot look at what happened before the South Carolina primary WHERE EVERYONE FUCKING DROPPED SUDDENLY AND RALLIED AROUND BIDEN BECAUSE CLYBURN SAID SO and act like it didn't happen as a political chess move. This is fucking maddening.

Biden was 5th in Iowa. Pete claimed victory there early. Bernie took New Hampshire and Nevada. Then South Carolina changed everything. It was master political gamesmanship and I CAN ADMIT THAT.

But it also was to fuck the progressives AND THE CENTRISTS ON THIS BOARD CANNOT ADMIT THAT.

Never did I say Bernie (or Liz) would've won definitively. Only the the most idealist progressive (or Chapo Trap House podcast host) would believe that. But I can say when they get fucked over. And then I'm told to can it because Trump is an existential threat. Whine later.

Well, it's later. Pete got his nomination to a cabinet position. So I'll whine.

So when President Tom Cotton appoints Donald Trump Jr and Paul Ryan to his cabinet in 2024, don't get all shocked Pikachu face when it happens. I'm just going to say, "Well, that's just backroom politics, what's the big deal?"

I mean for fuck's sake. Be honest. Own the situation. And call it like it is. All I want is the goddamn words.

BSF21 · Post by **BSF21** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:28 am

Johnnie wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:50 am My beef is and will always be consistency.

You (the royal you) cannot be blasé on Mayor Pete getting this gig when the previous administration did the same thing and you (the royal you) raised a stink.

You (the royal you) cannot look at what happened before the South Carolina primary WHERE EVERYONE FUCKING DROPPED SUDDENLY AND RALLIED AROUND BIDEN BECAUSE CLYBURN SAID SO and act like it didn't happen as a political chess move. This is fucking maddening.

Biden was 5th in Iowa. Pete claimed victory there early. Bernie took New Hampshire and Nevada. Then South Carolina changed everything. It was master political gamesmanship and I CAN ADMIT THAT.

But it also was to fuck the progressives AND THE CENTRISTS ON THIS BOARD CANNOT ADMIT THAT.

Never did I say Bernie (or Liz) would've won definitively. Only the the most idealist progressive (or Chapo Trap House podcast host) would believe that. But I can say when they get fucked over. And then I'm told to can it because Trump is an existential threat. Whine later.

Well, it's later. Pete got his nomination to a cabinet position. So I'll whine.

So when President Tom Cotton appoints Donald Trump Jr and Paul Ryan to his cabinet in 2024, don't get all shocked Pikachu face when it happens. I'm just going to say, "Well, that's just backroom politics, what's the big deal?"

I mean for fuck's sake. Be honest. Own the situation. And call it like it is. All I want is the goddamn words.

I get what you're saying, but I don't get equivocating Pete with "what the previous administration did". Pete isn't the CEO of Monsanto or Boeing or a member at Mar-a-Lago getting political clout because of favors he has done to one man. Is he the most well vetted and qualified person? Maybe not. Is he going to enact sweeping progressive change from the seat of the Dept of Transportation? Was anyone? Was Bernie Sanders going to get appointed Sec of Transpo and revolutionize transportation in this country? I doubt it.

There just has to be more nuance on both sides of this.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:08 am

BSF21 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:28 am Is he the most well vetted and qualified person? Maybe not.

Is Jackie Gutierrez the best player in Boston Red Sox history? Maybe not.

P.D.X. · Post by **P.D.X.** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:26 am

Johnnie wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:50 am You (the royal you) cannot be blasé on Mayor Pete getting this gig when the previous administration did the same thing and you (the royal you) raised a stink.

This is categorically wrong. If Biden appointed an oil man or something to Sec of Transportation, you'd have a point. There's a gaping difference between tapping people that are going to advocate for a department and people that are going to burn it down and will benefit from such. This is why Pete is more 'qualified' and it's more 'ok' than what djt did.

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:27 am

Square Rob wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 6:48 am So I guess I’m outing myself as a legislative centrist. Even if i believe in very liberal ideals, I see no path to getting there without some compromise with the center right.

Getting rid of earmarks was a bad move.

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:30 am

Square Rob wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 6:48 am So I guess I’m outing myself as a legislative centrist. Even if i believe in very liberal ideals, I see no path to getting there without some compromise with the center right.

Same. I think maybe our locales play a part in that?

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:34 am

P.D.X. wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:26 am
Johnnie wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:50 am You (the royal you) cannot be blasé on Mayor Pete getting this gig when the previous administration did the same thing and you (the royal you) raised a stink.
This is categorically wrong. If Biden appointed an oil man or something to Sec of Transportation, you'd have a point. There's a gaping difference between tapping people that are going to advocate for a department and people that are going to burn it down and will benefit from such. This is why Pete is more 'qualified' and it's more 'ok' than what djt did.

This.

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:46 am

Johnnie wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:50 amBiden was 5th in Iowa. Pete claimed victory there early. Bernie took New Hampshire and Nevada. Then South Carolina changed everything. It was master political gamesmanship and I CAN ADMIT THAT.

But it also was to fuck the progressives AND THE CENTRISTS ON THIS BOARD CANNOT ADMIT THAT.

Bernie got about 35% of the vote in those first three states, i.e., 65% of the voters chose others. South Carolina changed everything because the voters there - who are more representative of the Dem coalition than Iowa and NH and NV - favored Biden way way way more than Sanders.

The "master political gamesmanship" in South Carolina was Biden getting shitloads more votes than anyone else, and over 80% of the SC voters not choosing Sanders.

If any gamesmanship happened regarding Buttigieg, it was after SC. It was during the three days between SC and Super Tuesday. In other words, after it became clear that Biden was a strong candidate, especially among the Black Dem primary voters who are so important in Dem primaries, and after it became clear that Buttigieg was not, Buttigieg dropped out.

Yes, it's possible that the guy who got 8 percent in the first big primary dropped out because he was offered something. (As Bob said, there'd be nothing wrong with that.) But it's also possible that Buttigieg dropped out because he knew he couldn't win and didn't want to embarrass himself. That is how things have happened in every primary with a bunch of candidates. That is how things happened for the Dems in 1988, 1992, and 2004. That is also what happened in the Republican primaries in 2000, 2008, 2012, and 2016. Putatively "serious" candidates do embarrassingly bad in important contests, so they drop out.

There was no need to "fuck" the progressives. First, Biden, Buttigieg, and Klobuchar were all progressives. Second, if you mean "fuck the far left," there was no need to fuck the far left, because Sanders had already shown that he was half as popular as he had been in 2016, and Warren was not getting any traction. (And remember, I knocked on doors for Warren, begging people to vote for her even if it looked like she had no chance, because you never know.)

I guess it's fair to say that the progressives consolidated around Biden to stop Sanders from fucking the Democratic party (again). That part I will admit.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:21 am

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:46 amFirst, Biden, Buttigieg, and Klobuchar were all progressives.

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:46 amI guess it's fair to say that the progressives consolidated around Biden to stop Sanders from fucking the Democratic party (again). That part I will admit.

I mean ... why even bother at this point.

EnochRoot · Post by **EnochRoot** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:07 am

tennbengal wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:34 am
P.D.X. wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:26 am
Johnnie wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:50 am You (the royal you) cannot be blasé on Mayor Pete getting this gig when the previous administration did the same thing and you (the royal you) raised a stink.
This is categorically wrong. If Biden appointed an oil man or something to Sec of Transportation, you'd have a point. There's a gaping difference between tapping people that are going to advocate for a department and people that are going to burn it down and will benefit from such. This is why Pete is more 'qualified' and it's more 'ok' than what djt did.
This.

These.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:09 am

The argument isn't that its as bad as what Trump did, no one thinks Pete is going to strip mine the dept for his own gain. But, like goddamn everything in this thread, that doesn't make it good or something you need to defend. Bad but not as bad is still bad.

Post by **brian** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:12 am

Can I reiterate that can we at least SEE if his performance is bad before we start crucifying him or Biden for making the pick? It's certainly fair there were probably more qualified candidates, but it's equally fair that he could end up having a talent for leading a Cabinet-level position and plotting how to get major infrastructure projects planned and shepherded through Congress. This is actually an area where some bipartisan cooperation might be possible, so there's probably going to be an opportunity to actually judge his performance after a couple of years.

P.D.X. · Post by **P.D.X.** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:31 am

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:09 am The argument isn't that its as bad as what Trump did, no one thinks Pete is going to strip mine the dept for his own gain. But, like goddamn everything in this thread, that doesn't make it good or something you need to defend. Bad but not as bad is still bad.

In which Mr D levels 'inexperienced' with 'actively destructive'.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:33 am

brian wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:12 amCan I reiterate that can we at least SEE if his performance is bad before we start crucifying him or Biden for making the pick?

Nah. No interest in the perpetual "now isn't the time to criticize the party" cycle everyone knew wasn't ending.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:35 am

P.D.X. wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:31 amIn which Mr D levels 'inexperienced' with 'actively destructive'.

In which Mister D makes the point that if you're hiring for a restaurant, its better to have someone who has never cooked than someone actively looking to poison you, but both are still stupid ideas relative to hiring an experienced chef.

P.D.X. · Post by **P.D.X.** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:40 am

Yet one is still demonstrably better than the other.

P.D.X. · Post by **P.D.X.** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:41 am

(Why do I have the suspicion that you think Sec of Transportation is gonna be laying out bus routes and timetables and stuff like that?)

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:43 am

Except it's not that he's never cooked. He's just only cooked in a small mom and pop diner.